What kind of velocities and distances to transonic are you guys getting?
Edited to get shorter barrel data too.
Edited to get shorter barrel data too.
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308s with 20” or less Barrels
- Thread starter AR-180
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Remingtion 700 20" stock barrel with factory ammo at the muzzle....
These are the average of a 5 shoot group.
Federal 168 SMK 2509 AVG
Federal 118LR 175 SMK 2493 AVG
Berger 175 OTM 2535 AVG
Berger 185 OTM 2480 AVG
These are the average of a 5 shoot group.
Federal 168 SMK 2509 AVG
Federal 118LR 175 SMK 2493 AVG
Berger 175 OTM 2535 AVG
Berger 185 OTM 2480 AVG
175SMK@ 2570FPS 20" barrel, calculator claims 1137 at 1000 yards, exactly in the bad spot.
Have not done a lot of shooting with a 308 at 1000 as the 6mm's and the 6.5's are far better for the job.
IMO a 308 sucks for anything above 800 yards unless you have a long barrel and hot rod it a bit.
Have not done a lot of shooting with a 308 at 1000 as the 6mm's and the 6.5's are far better for the job.
IMO a 308 sucks for anything above 800 yards unless you have a long barrel and hot rod it a bit.
20” FN SPR - 175SMK 2550-2640FPS.
At 0 DA it seems to fall apart after the 800 yd .308 wall that some talk about.
At 0 DA it seems to fall apart after the 800 yd .308 wall that some talk about.
19" Benchmark 3groove / 11twist
155.5 Berger @ 2755fps.
Consistent at 1020yds in various conditions. Haven't shot it further out.
155.5 Berger @ 2755fps.
Consistent at 1020yds in various conditions. Haven't shot it further out.
Howa1500 .308Win, 20" factory barrel
168gn Hornady ZMax(AMax); 2620-2640fps with 44.4gns ADI2208(Varget) in ADI brass
168gn Hornady ZMax(AMax); 2620-2640fps with 44.4gns ADI2208(Varget) in ADI brass
Have you shot the palma 155s? I not seeing much reason for me to shoot 175s anymore, looking at the standard 155 smk because they are available and the 155.5 Bergers are expensive. Tried 155 ELDs but havent got them to shoot nicely yet. Recoil
factors in for me as well.
If you mean the #2156, then no. I know they are better BC, however they are a different design and much more difficult to tune and more picky across rifles.
The #2155, although older I have found they are pretty much a universal bullet. Works wonderfully well across pretty much all rifles. Tolerant in jump, load, chambering and just seem to work. As mentioned stable across transonic & subsonic.
Shooting out to 600m I don’t see the need to choose a pricer bullet. However if shooting out to 1000m or beyond the 175 Berger is the choice in my mind. However I’ll just choose to use a different calibre….. ie 6.5CM
I like the Speer 168 Gold Dot Rifle projectile. It incorporates a number of features that complement each other, making it a successful compromise; not necessarily the best at any of those features, but as a whole, outstanding.
It is configured as a protected soft point with a rebated base.
The overall bullet is somewhat squatter than the ELD style, the soft point is protected within a slightly broader than customary hollow point. The rebated base retrieves some of the BC which sacrificing the boat tail surrenders, but not without a compensating benefit. The copper jacket is deposited electrically, creating an ionic bond with the lead core, far improving the recovered weight percentage by nearly eliminating jacket separation. The rebated base much reduces base intrusion into the powder column, and is very similar to Lapua's renowned D-29 bullet in that one respect. One after another, reviews nearly always mention exceptional accuracy and consistent terminal performance.
All of this makes for a significantly consistent bullet, with more than just paper punching accuracy, but also delivering very meaningful terminal performance at the end of the trajectory. In order to take best advantage of this terminal performance, I would not classify this bullet as a long range bullet, but depend on it for intermediate range performance.
For longer ranges; I prefer my 28" .260 Rem, loaded with 140 grain .264" diameter Speer Gold Dots. I might suggest that the Speer Gold Dot line allows for an especially meaningful switch barrel system, where the .260 and .308 are identical in all ways but bore diameter. My .308 is an ergonomically improved Savage 11VT, and my .260 is a complete custom built on a a 2001 Model 10FP, carrying a 28" Lothar-Walther user spec barrel. Ordered as a custom, its specs became the ones used while Lothar-Walther was provided in-stock LW-50 Stainless Savage pre-fit barrels for the .260. I shoot it with sparing care, and it's still going since 2003.
My load for the .308 employs Starline brass f/l resized, with CCI BR-2 Primers, the 168 Speer Gold Doc seated to 2.800" OAL nominally, but to .2815" OAL in fact, this being the max length I've been able to feed reliably from NATO spec magazines, and 43.5gr (Speer lists 43.6gr as max) of IMR-4064. The .260 Load is a currently under development load of around 45.0gr or H-4831SC, using the Speer .264" diameter 140 gr Gold Dot projectile; starting with Starline .260 brass, or resized down from 7-08), other specs identical to the .308 load.
Greg
It is configured as a protected soft point with a rebated base.
The overall bullet is somewhat squatter than the ELD style, the soft point is protected within a slightly broader than customary hollow point. The rebated base retrieves some of the BC which sacrificing the boat tail surrenders, but not without a compensating benefit. The copper jacket is deposited electrically, creating an ionic bond with the lead core, far improving the recovered weight percentage by nearly eliminating jacket separation. The rebated base much reduces base intrusion into the powder column, and is very similar to Lapua's renowned D-29 bullet in that one respect. One after another, reviews nearly always mention exceptional accuracy and consistent terminal performance.
All of this makes for a significantly consistent bullet, with more than just paper punching accuracy, but also delivering very meaningful terminal performance at the end of the trajectory. In order to take best advantage of this terminal performance, I would not classify this bullet as a long range bullet, but depend on it for intermediate range performance.
For longer ranges; I prefer my 28" .260 Rem, loaded with 140 grain .264" diameter Speer Gold Dots. I might suggest that the Speer Gold Dot line allows for an especially meaningful switch barrel system, where the .260 and .308 are identical in all ways but bore diameter. My .308 is an ergonomically improved Savage 11VT, and my .260 is a complete custom built on a a 2001 Model 10FP, carrying a 28" Lothar-Walther user spec barrel. Ordered as a custom, its specs became the ones used while Lothar-Walther was provided in-stock LW-50 Stainless Savage pre-fit barrels for the .260. I shoot it with sparing care, and it's still going since 2003.
My load for the .308 employs Starline brass f/l resized, with CCI BR-2 Primers, the 168 Speer Gold Doc seated to 2.800" OAL nominally, but to .2815" OAL in fact, this being the max length I've been able to feed reliably from NATO spec magazines, and 43.5gr (Speer lists 43.6gr as max) of IMR-4064. The .260 Load is a currently under development load of around 45.0gr or H-4831SC, using the Speer .264" diameter 140 gr Gold Dot projectile; starting with Starline .260 brass, or resized down from 7-08), other specs identical to the .308 load.
Greg
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43.9 Varget, 20" Krieger, RPR, 175SMK 2610 FPS. I could be wrong but my load should make about 1150 yards before transition give or take a few depending on conditions.
20” AIAE running 175’s in FGMM trueing at 2562. Very dependent on the season as we get hot and extreme cold. Typically 850-900 entering the trans. You need to be calling wind like a pro come winter here.
Ive seen that meme so many times and the little dead face on the bullet kills me every time.
Some of the occasionally overlooked advantages for some extra barrel length is that they can achieve higher velocity with less pressure and slower powders. My 260 's 28" L-W barrel gets to around 2850fps (estimated from load manuals) with the 140gr-range bullets with relatively milder loads of H4831SC. This may lead to significantly longer bore life. Here in the higher country 4300ft-4500ftASL; that can translate into a lot more distance supersonic. According to some atmospheric charts, I'm only having to punch though about 85% of the air mass present at sea Level.
When used in said way, they can also generate less muzzle pressure, possibly simplifying a suppressor's task.
Greg
When used in said way, they can also generate less muzzle pressure, possibly simplifying a suppressor's task.
Greg
For 24 barrel rifles, using 47.5 gr PP-2000MR in Lapua case (or 46.5 gr in LC case), I can push 175 SMK to 2725-2750 fps with zero over pressure sign. For 20" barrels, about 100 fps less (mid 2600ish).
How about sub 20"?
17" Howa 1500, cut and threaded by Short Action Customs
Slings Hornady 178 ELD-Ms at 2530 fps with an ES of 8 and SD of 3 with Lapua brass, S&B primers, and 43.3 grains of TAC. Goes transsonic somewhere around 950 yards and subsonic at 1100 in typical midwestern conditions.
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