308win-175 SMK "tactical tips" & Berger 185 Juggernaut's AR10 semi auto

[30calDeath]

Hopefully this is the right sub forum to post this, this is for two different bullets/manufacturers.

Today I bought a box of Berger 185 Juggernaut's because I've heard they are the cats meow. Going to be loading this in an AR10 out of Magpul Pmags. Would also single feed if one thinks I can get better accuracy. Anyone have any starting load data for these?

Also bought a box of 175 Sierra Match Kings with the "tactical tips", also looking for load data and I'll probably be exclusively shooting these out of my Magpul Pmags. Again any load data for an AR10 semi auto would be great, thanks.

 

[Huckleberry75]

The juggernaut is an awesome bullet for the 308 cartridge. And the new Sierra TMK's are a nice improvement on b/c overy the tried and true SMk. Both bullets will require you to seat them fairly deep to be able to feed from a p-mag. I would build a couple of dummy rounds of each to make sure that the ogive is not below the case mouth when seated to mag length.

 

[Agent Clark]

You might get the Juggs to fit and work, I seat them at 2.208" ogive in my Rem 5R, but I'm betting the tipped 175's will be too long. Previous post nailed it, make some dummies, and/or do some measuring and eyeballing of the slugs next to a case and a mag.

 

[Black max]

The tmk's will fit in a pmag, I cannot speak to the 185's though... I've had good success with LC LR brass, 42.2 varget and a br2 primer seated at 2.85"

 

[Raffica762]

Anymore updates? Thank you

 

[squib-load]

for an ar10.. a long range load is like 600-700 yards.. after that its like throwing rocks off an overpass.. just no velocity ... if the ar10 was 6.5 I would say 1000+ ok but in 308.. likely a 20 or 18 or shorter barrel.. I think that the 185 and any other exotic (read expensive) bullet is pretty much a waste... again just my opinion

varget is considered too slow in the ar10 short barrels ... it can be used but generally port pressures are higher than if you use a faster powder like 4064 for 175-185 loads. that is why .mil went with it for mk316 ammo.. good velocity and temp stability for a-stan but with port pressures that the m14 and m110/autoloaders could handle without beating them up.

personally I have loaded 168TMK to mag length and they do ok.. but mostly just shoot 175SMK or for blasting 175 noslerCC or RDF since they are cheaper for my AR10 pattern rifles.

really depends on what you want to do though so can't speak definitively .. just my .02c

43.5 4064 in Lapua at mag length jumping a 168TMK gives me one ragged hole in a 24" bolt gun.. 44.3 175TMK in my bolt gun loaded long jumping .010 give me one ragged hole and 2770, no pressure signs.. 85F. ymmv .. again no data for these in the ar10.. just too expensive for the terminal accuracy of the platform .. they are solid 3/4 minute rifles with 175SMK and CC though.. but not worth .50 cents a shot for berger

 

[ValkShooter]

While I agree with most of what has been said, especially on the price, my 20 inch BA barreled 308 AR loves the Jug's in reloads and the factory FGMM match rounds. They will seat easily to Magpul length, I measured a couple and the factory FGMM rounds average around 2.805-2.810 COAL. With that being said, double the cost of the 178 ELD-M is a hard pill to swallow for a marginal BC increase. The factory FGMM loaded Jug's average 2550 fps from my 20 inch barrel.

FGMM Factory rounds

 

[squib-load]

@ValkShooter

yeah.. and what do the FGMM jugs (didn't know they loaded 185 burgers ) do for you that a 175smk can't from a 20" barrel... worth the cost?

also.. while federal says there is no difference between fgmm 175 and fgmm 762 there is .. the fgmm 762 is basically civilianized mk316 and is a lot faster out of barrels 24" and shorter than fgmm 175... different powder and load...

FGMM 762 is advertised as 2600 and I get 2730 from my 24" bolt gun.. and regular FGMM is around 2630

 

[ValkShooter]

@ValkShooter

yeah.. and what do the FGMM jugs (didn't know they loaded 185 burgers ) do for you that a 175smk can't from a 20" barrel... worth the cost?

I mentioned how expensive they were twice in my previous post incase you missed it, because the OP already has the bullets, I was just posting to verify they will work at standard AR10 mag lengths. It's up to him to decide if they are worth the cost. FWIW my favorite load for my rifle is 155 TMK's over PP2000MR @2840 fps.

 

[squib-load]

@ValkShooter

I am making more a general observation/statement that most folks are grossly over spending for 'long range accuracy' bullets for a platform that is neither long range or accurate enough to realize that potential

155TMK... intersting load.. I would think that due to the very short barrel the 155 would not get near the velocity to realize their potential.. its a palma round shot from 30" long artillery barrels.. but the TMK I guess had just enough extra BC that the slower velocity does ok out to typical AR10 WEZ distances...

might have to try that.. did you try any other powders other than PP2000MR..

 

[ValkShooter]

No. I got the idea to try the combo setting up a gas block with Fed American Eagle 150 gr factory loads and noticed they were running 2820(iirc) out of this barrel. So I wanted to see if I could get the 155 TMK’s close...... I’m not home to look up any numbers, so take this with a grain of salt, I believe max charge is listed around 50 grains and i’m well under that.

 

[squib-load]

@ValkShooter the TMK changes so many variables.. most notably shifting the ogive back from the bullet tip.. looks like its a great combination.. experimentation sometimes pays off!

DON’T TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED! The bottom line is to deal in absolute fundamentals, measure them, and remove all the assumptions. Don’t ever assume that something is what it says without measuring it. – Bryan Litz, Applied Ballistics for Long-Range Shooting

sage advice .. words to live by....

 

[stalwart300]

I have a 16" ar308 I use 45.5 gr varget under a 150 gr eld. My other go to load is 47.3 gr h335 under 110 vmax.

 

[Raffica762]

Great info I have tried Alco 175gr steel tip with great success

 

[DMONEY]

Good read ...hope it helps ....

https://www.ar15.com/forums/industr...and_other_interesting_info/219-247306/?page=1


http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-yards-and-1760-yards-1-mile-with-bryan-litz/

 

[PrepareSmarter]

for an ar10.. a long range load is like 600-700 yards.. after that its like throwing rocks off an overpass.. just no velocity ... if the ar10 was 6.5 I would say 1000+ ok but in 308.. likely a 20 or 18 or shorter barrel.. I think that the 185 and any other exotic (read expensive) bullet is pretty much a waste... again just my opinion

My 20" Krieger LR308 is making it to 1k with the 185 Bergers. That was my main reason for switching from the 175SMK.