Hunting & Fishing .308win ammo for Elk

Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffbird</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would I take a Texas heart shot? Question is obviously written by someone who has never hunted deer or elk in thick places. </div></div>
Really? What is the habitat like where I hunt?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would I take a Texas heart shot? Question is obviously written by someone who has never hunted deer or elk in thick places. BUT just for grins. here's the setting. You're on a sneak through the black timber shadowing a 7X7 you saw at first light heading into his bedding area. You jump him out of a deadfall and he's heading straight away. Up comes your Merkel SR 9.3x62 stoked with 250 gr TSXs and carrying a 1.2-4 Trijicon with the big amber post. You have three shots quick available and #1 goes in under the asshole, through 30 pounds of full paunch, takes out all the heart plumbing and exits through the neck. He makes two more bounds and piles up. That's why... I like to eat Elk not talk about the 500 yard shots or the ones "I seen through my Swaro spotting scope"

Also did it many times on Whitetail with an 1100 12 bore and deer slugs when I lived back east.

Dead is dead, it really doesn't matter how the bullet gets into the heart & lungs.</div></div>

Actually, you are the ONLY person I have EVER heard proudly proclaim that they intentionally shoot animals in the ass. Seems to be a less than optimal shot placement to deliver an immediately incapacitating shot, and it spreads shit and bacteria all through the wound cavity.

A shot through the neck to the spine, or even a broadside shot behind the shoulder into the heart, lungs or spine, will avoid filling the meat full of shit. If you like to eat shit, well, you have unique taste preferences. Me, I eat deer meat almost every single day of the year, but I prefer to have mine without additives.

Also, in the scenario you outlined, did you take any time to observe the animal and consider whether it is a mature animal, or he just had a big rack? Is that a factor for consideration? If you stomp through his bedding area will he come back to that bedding area? Is that important to consider?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Harold,

While I might approve somewhat of your choice for bullets, I will say in the same breath your choice of shot placement isn't worth a flat damn.

In fact, aside from the shock of your acceptance and apparent common place for this unethical shot, I'm appalled. Ethics in this sport is just as important as abiding the law. Furthermore I don't know of any Texan worth his salt that would take that kind of shot let alone be accepting of it.

Of all people I am the least that would blast someone about many choices they make. However, this is wrong and potentially cruel on a number of fronts.</div></div>



</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would I take a Texas heart shot? Question is obviously written by someone who has never hunted deer or elk in thick places. BUT just for grins. here's the setting. You're on a sneak through the black timber shadowing a 7X7 you saw at first light heading into his bedding area. You jump him out of a deadfall and he's heading straight away. Up comes your Merkel SR 9.3x62 stoked with 250 gr TSXs and carrying a 1.2-4 Trijicon with the big amber post. You have three shots quick available and #1 goes in under the asshole, through 30 pounds of full paunch, takes out all the heart plumbing and exits through the neck. He makes two more bounds and piles up.</div></div>

LOL holy fucking horseshit batman...

OK where to start. If at first light you could tell he was a 7X7 why waste the time to let him get into the black timber. Just so you can see if you could "play him a little". If "at first light" you were close enough to count 14 tines. You should have taken that broadside shot. Or just jumped on his fucking back and slit his throat.

Number 2, You make absolutely no sense, are you shadowing his movements or was he already there and you jumped him?

Number 3 you have three shot but only took 1 shot, up the ass. I guess the other 2 were broad side shots but hell you love to eat shit.

Number 4 you shot him under the asshole. Well basically you shot him in the nuts.

Number 5 Why in the fuck would you go into his bedding area??? An if you knew it was his bedding area why weren't you already there waiting???

Number 6 Easy to tell you've never hunted black timber. Or should I say don't really know what the hell you are doing. Or maybe you do. Maybe you like to hunt Elk like cockbirds. You know brush bust them. BLack timber is pretty dense and thick. Typically you can't see all that well unless you are well within 50 yards of anything.

An Elk hunter would have sweet talked him out of the black timber. Instead of taking the chance of FUCKING EVERYTHING UP by chasing him in black timber.

Moral of the story, you're fucking dreaming about being a real Elk hunter.

Just like you've pulled a 6 horse slant to a FS trailhead at 10,000ft ASL.

The problem with that is, your truck has a topper, and there are no FS trailheads in Wyo at 10,000 asl...

again, just a dreamer with tall tails...
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

wave- I don't know what you are trying to say in this post.

How is shot placement not the end all be all as you state?

What are the Corbon projectiles that you speak of? My search of Corbon bullets and Corbon projectiles lead me to a Corbon line of ammunition loaded with known bullets. What am I missing here?

In your .308 at 504 yards example, what bullet and would the terminal velocity be above the 2000fps velocity window that the bullet is designed to work within?

If you have talked about the above examples before and I am missing something sorry for the questions, I am just having trouble understanding what you are meaning by this post.

Thanks.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harold Dale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will try Corbons bullets,I've used the 190 gr. SPBT bullet from Hornday for so long and it have serveved me well. For us a200 yard shot is pretty close,usuallu 300-450 shots are norm. Thinking of it,I've never seen a Bow Hunter do a Texas Heart shot,perhaps he is a little wiser? </div></div>

In many ways yes- because he has to be. Everything becomes amplified and much more critical. A broadhead is as lethal as a projectile in many ways becase it is slicing tissue as it moves through the animal. Which means it is severing veins/arteries and causing hemorrhaging.

THe closest thing to a Texas Heart Shot is the quartering away shot of the animal where vitals are exposed. It is a smaller area but offers the best chance to drive through the pump station.

Alot can be learned from bowhunting because everything must be right. THey also wait(usually) for the correct shot to present itself. Otherwise no shot should be taken. THat does not mean there are not bowhunter-idiots who do not practice and exercise due dilligence. THings happen. Yet, that does not dismiss the fact that a strict ethical standard should not be adhered to at all times. We owe itr to the game, to the sport and each other.

I am not going to make a big deal out of this but Mr Humble also mentioned taking the same "shot". If your comments are not "tongue in cheek" they are flat wrong.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Shot placement like terminal ballistics when considered independent of one another, aren't the end all be all many would make them to be. Especially when it comes to putting down an ELk or other big game animals.
</div></div>

THis was the exact quote. Shot placement should be one of the foremost considerations. Actually the foremost consideration. Although there are other critical considerations, especially according to the game you are hunting.

Example: A lethal shot does not always cause the animal to pile up where it stands. In fact many times that does not happen unless it is a neck shot or a spine shot. Breaking the front shoulders will cripple the animal , yet it often requires a follow up shot.

I was not shooting the .308. For the record it was a former sniper. I do not use a .308 in hunting big game animals. Especially elk for reasons I stated. I just happen to know what this person loaded and what they were using.


CORRECTION: I DO NOT LOAD WITH CORBON PROJECTILES for hunting. I use the NOSLER ACCUBOND Projectiles. MY apologies.

THe previous "examples" discussed ad nauseum were on another thread similar to this one where MM and a couple other individuals defend the .308 as a primary/efficient hunting caliber.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

interesting how people who hunt Elk have this misconception that a magnum is mandatory.

.308 is plenty for Elk. To extended distances beyond the norm for preconceived/traditional hunting ranges.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">interesting how people who hunt Elk have this misconception that a magnum is mandatory.

.308 is plenty for Elk. To extended distances beyond the norm for preconceived/traditional hunting ranges. </div></div>


Really? Who stated that?

Please explain your second comment.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Read the hunting threads. The vast majority when hunting anywhere is the west have this supreme need to have a magnum. Not necessary.

What's to explain in the second comment?

1K in ft. lbs is enough to feast on Elk tenderloin. Needed impact velocities will vary according to bullet design and construction.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Wave, What a fucking treasure trove of information. You're a literary genius, more or less.....


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am not a fan of SPBT for the simple reason that technology has advanced to offer better, more efficient options. Namely polymers, they rock.</div></div>

Polymers are better because "they rock". That's good to know.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THe Corbon and Amax loads are fair components to apply proper shock value and increased accuracy. This was somewhat of a chance discovery by me while sighting in two dfferent rifles at the range one day. </div></div>

You think shock value relates directly to components. Wow. BTW, Corbon sells AMMUNITION, not components, there's a difference. The real side-splitter is that you are able to determine/evaluate "shock value" while sighting in at the rifle range.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ....After keyholing POI shots with the polymer rounds....,</div></div>

I'm going to assume you mean bughole??? FYI, keyholing is a term used to describe an unstable bullet striking the target and leaving an oblong hole. It helps if you use the same lingo as the rest of us.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the SPBT fluctuated considerably. It occured to me that the soft lead and slight inconsistency in the tip rendered a fluctutation in the trajectory.</div></div>

Fluctuations in trajectory have to do with fluctuations in velocity, not the bullet tip.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there was that type of POI differential at very nominal distances then the issue would become exascerbated out West.</div></div>

Ah yes, "out west", surely not anywhere else, regardless of the range. Exascerbated? Is that like exacerbated? Good idea to only use fancy words if you know how to spell them. It does add to the comedy value though.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Whereas the uniformity and tighter grain structure in polymers render a devastating blow on impact to the objective.</div></div>

OMFG that's funny. I guess I need some polymer tipped for the 308, and all will be to your satisfaction. gotta love that "tighter grain structure", that shit really renders a devastating blow.....FUCKING ROLLING....


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's the shock value you want. It will blow a hole in the critter and break bone in the process if needs be. THat way they pile up right smart if you do your job.</div></div>

Got it. polymer tip, and do my job. The result will invariably be massive shock value, blown holes, broken bones, and right smart pile ups. All discovered at the rifle range sight-in.....Dude, you are HILARIOUS!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No extreme difficulty tracking, chasing and fretting about the welfare of your game</div></div>

Extreme difficulty tracking doesn't sound like a good time. Sounds like you've done a lot of it. If the welfare of animals is important to you, don't shoot at the fucking things!!!.....LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try them , you'll like them.
Incidentally, the distances I shot at are not always typical. I bow hunt so getting close is always the name of the game, bow or gun. Just not always achievable. It is advisable to take a very "makeable", ethical shot and respect your game.</div></div>

Great way to wrap it all up. A used car salesman's pitch, followed up with unquantified, self-aggrandizing, and moralistic horseshit. Par.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
THe previous "examples" discussed ad nauseum were on another thread similar to this one where MM and a couple other individuals defend the .308 as a primary/efficient hunting caliber. </div></div>


You can't remember for shit.

The fellows friend ALREADY OWNED and practiced with his 308, wanted input on it's viability as a elk rifle. My position is it is plenty out to any reasonasble hunting distance. I specifically cited the 200gr Accubond at 2550 fps delivering 2000 fps/1800 ft-lbs to 500 yards as a good example of the 308s capabilites with a good load.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

No need to get defensive. I was just asking for clarification on your point which was not exactly clear. Thanks for the clarification.

I have read many of those painful threads and have failed to see where anyone expressed a magnum as a necessity, just preferential.

Agreed on the velocity fluctuation because that is the predicate for delivered energy. Therein lies much of the problem. There are others as well.

You're entitled to your opinion. However I have seen trained ,very good marksman fail using the .308-more than once. Conversely, while a good but rusty shot drop an animal at 338yrds using a magnum.

Incidentally let's drop the magnum vs the .308. for your benefit. There are other more productive rounds which I will put up against the .308 that will outperform it and provide a more efficient caliber for elk. Namely the 30-06(my favorite) and the 7mmSTW, 7mm-08 and 280.

 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
However I have seen trained ,very good marksman fail using the .308-more than once. Conversely, while a good but rusty shot drop an animal at 338yrds using a magnum.</div></div>

Using the proper bullet(hunting bullets) and hitting an animal in the proper place, I do not see how a few hundred feet/second makes a difference unless the velocity is very low and outside the minimum velocity window for the bullet. Can you please explain what I am missing? Does a .240 Weatherby Magnum qualify as a magnum or is it a particular magnum with which you speak?

How could the 7-08 be more efficient elk killer than the .308?

Lastly, how far do you feel comfortable shooting your .30-06 at elk?
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

I collected mucho elk for cwd surveillance during 2003-2004 with a .308 and 165 TSXs. Ranges generally were under 200 and all were lower neck shots (mandatory placement); DRT.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Conversely, while a good but rusty shot drop an animal at 338yrds using a magnum. </div></div>

I shot a brainwormed moose in the back of the head at 65 yards with a 165 powrball outta my 45 acp that same winter. Therefore, that must be the best combination for moose.
grin.gif
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

MM,

Excuse the "vernacular" but that was a precursor to my expanded explanation.


Talk about genius. Your ability to decipher context is amazing, yet clearly you were just looking to nit-pick. Anyone knows punching paper will not yield shock value of a projectile, just acuracy. THere is plenty of information, including pictures no less on the manufactures sites. The shock value of the projectile is then ultimately verified in the field after the kill.

Keyholing- call it what you will. I refer to it as a keyhole when there are two holes that intersect each other, reminiscent of a keyhole. THat's what it looks like to me. In other words the POI of the polymers were strings. THe SPBT had separated POI altogether.

Fluctuations- I am not arguing that point. Though it would seem to me that the lead contributes an integral part of that result.

Tighter grain- that was in relation to the consistent delivery and when compared to the lead tipped ammunition.

Corbon- I mistakenly called the Accubonds, Corbons. Then corrected that when I realized what I was stating. Gotta remember to be precise and that scorned nazi pricks like you are looking to make a huge deal out of errors.

I am wondering if you really were a Marine or just a clown that escaped the circus. No one stated shock value, broken bones and pile ups were verified at the range.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah yes, "out west", surely not anywhere else, regardless of the range. Exascerbated? Is that like exacerbated? Good idea to only use fancy words if you know how to spell them. It does add to the comedy value though.

<span style="color: #3366FF">Out west is typically where I hunt and where the longest distance shots are predominantly made.It is also where the majority of elk hunting is done.
I'll remember to be acutely specific in my explanation so it is unmistakeably clear in the future . That way it won't upset the balance of your wild emotions. </span>


Originally Posted By: waveone
Whereas the uniformity and tighter grain structure in polymers render a devastating blow on impact to the objective.


OMFG that's funny. I guess I need some polymer tipped for the 308, and all will be to your satisfaction. gotta love that "tighter grain structure", that shit really renders a devastating blow.....FUCKING ROLLING....

<span style="color: #3366FF"> Have you tried them? Until you have it might be wise to reserve your comments. Most likely not.THe 155gr Amaxes for the .308 is a fantastic projectile. </span>

Originally Posted By: waveone
That's the shock value you want. It will blow a hole in the critter and break bone in the process if needs be. THat way they pile up right smart if you do your job.


Got it. polymer tip, and do my job. The result will invariably be massive shock value, blown holes, broken bones, and right smart pile ups. All discovered at the rifle range sight-in.....Dude, you are HILARIOUS!

<span style="color: #3366FF">Keep laughin clown. Only an idiot and an ass like yourself would derive that I ascertained that while at the range. I don't know of any range that experiences herds of wild animals roaming around the field of fire. </span>

</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Extreme difficulty tracking doesn't sound like a good time. Sounds like you've done a lot of it. If the welfare of animals is important to you, don't shoot at the fucking things!!!.....LOL</div></div>

THis is prof positive you are grasping and using hyperbole to make failed points. It is also clear you have no clue as to what you are speaking about on this topic.

THings happen and the variables are many. THe time of day, season, stress on the animal, shot POI and so forth have great bearing on what happens after the shot. None of which you seem to have any experience in.

Extreme tracking- I have done some without question over the last 30 years since I started hunting at age nine. Anyone saying otherwise is lying or has little experience such as yourself.

Twice this my animal. Both were in heavy brush. Even still, everything can be done right and still turn out wrong. THat's hunting. Though you would have to have done quite a bit of it, to understand this which clearly you have not. Thus the stupid comments.

Welfare - as in humane kill bugwit. Not well being. THat is obvious to anyone who doesn't have an agenda.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Originally Posted By: waveone
Try them , you'll like them.
Incidentally, the distances I shot at are not always typical. I bow hunt so getting close is always the name of the game, bow or gun. Just not always achievable. It is advisable to take a very "makeable", ethical shot and respect your game.


Great way to wrap it all up. A used car salesman's pitch, followed up with unquantified, self-aggrandizing, and moralistic horseshit. Par. </div></div>

This gem slams the door on any notion to the contrary that you are on a mission and attempting to redeem your bumbling ass. It's also pathetic.

THere is no "moralistic horseshit" about being ethical when hunting. Nor about makeable shots to the kill zone. THe term "makeable" is for the indivudal to determine based upon their ability. For idiots such as yourself use the Mr Humble "ass shot" for contrast.

Ethics are as much involved in hunting as abiding the law is. Everyone is watching like the anti gun dirt bags. Eco pukes are looking for ways to shut us down. THey have infiltrated the DOW offices all over the nation and accumulate statistics to advance their agenda.

Self aggrandizing- If you are not trying to get close, you really aren't hunting. Expecially when bowhunting.


Let me know if that is not dumbed down enough for you clown aka MM.

 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Hmmm I really like this website but when garbage like this starts up it takes away from the usefullness of this site. Challenging people's opinions, thoughts or experience makes for great knowledge sharing. But I've been seeing more of this happening on this website and another favorite of mine and I don't like it. I think the internet brings it out of some people, I doubt they would do the same in person. Anywho I'd the to see the administrators start enforcing their rules on some people.

1.Exercise common sense and be considerate toward your fellow users. Diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token, Personal attacks, rudeness, flaming, baiting, insults to others, or arguments will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Any member who threatens anyone on the forum, via PM, instant messengers, or Email, will be subject to disciplinary actions, including but not limited to banishment from the site.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wave: Not trying to get into this brawl or cause you to aim your crosshairs at me but before you threaten to kick someones ass, you might want to find out about who you are smarting off to. Just a little wise advice. The first time I saw picks on Montana Marine, he was holding his 30-06 precision / hunting rifle and his size made his 30-06 look like a Daisy pellet rifle. 2nd note.. Montana Marine has always been helpful and offering good advice when others have asked, he has never snapped on anybody. In my book he has earned his respect......Just a thought.....Have a nice day...SmokeRolls </div></div>

Smoke,

No cross hairs aimed and no offense. I offered to speak to him FTF and repeat my comments. THat stands whatever the outcome. I could give a wit less about whether or not he is a big fella. THat's a matter of complete indifference to me especially when this arrogant prick condescends to refer to me in the fashion he does. That would be an ass whippin' I'm just going to have to take. So forgive me if I'm not quakin'.

Pictures- If I can find some to post,MM you can make copies and shove them up your a$$ too.

</div></div>


Whoa dude - I've been conversing with Montana Marine since he got back from the Sandbox, in fact BEFORE he became MONTANA.

He seems to know his shit, if you don't like what he has to say it's easy to grab the scroll bar on the right side, and pull it down a tad further.

Nobody is advocating fighting or anything else (I hope not, I would not want to tangle with him either!)...

He's on my list of good-guys here on this board, and on WCT....

Had the ISSC not beencancelled I likely woulda met him last year in person.

Montana ya gonna make it for WCT match? Maybe I'll get there this year!

Anyway - Elk have been dropped for many many years with 30-06's and a varie ty of bullets, if youi want to drop one faster with a polymer or any other kind of bullet - fine - but the SPBT and round nose Rem 180's have been doing it QUITE well for years...

Nozler partition took down a moose in Alaska for me, 180gr - so you don't "Need" a fancy high tech bullet....

I prefer the 30-06 with 180gr but I would take a neck shot with my 100gr 243 if I had to.

As for West - whomever posted - I am west - go down by Mt St Helens and expect more than a 60 yard shot and you will likely be disappointed unless you find some magic clear cut...


 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Good post ArticLight. I haven't had much experience with Montana Marine but he's answered one of my posts but I have read many of his posts. He seems to know his stuff and from what I've seen in his posts I'd say he former military. Having been in the military one learns to recognize another prior service and someone who is feeding you a line of bull. As far as his knowledge base I appreciate his imput, especially when it comes to the 30-06. As far as I'm concerned MM is GTG.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

No argument about that. Bullet type is a major part of the problem. Trying to integrate the world of fudd with the shooter is a big problem that ranges from reticles to projectiles.

THe caliber and situation can affect hitting the animal in the "proper place". I really do not like using anything less than a .30cal bullet when hunting elk or any game for that matter. Except for my 7mmRUM using ACCUBOND Projectiles(MM)........

THough I have hunted with a guy who swears by the .260 mag. He prefers neck shots and won't take a shot beyond about three hundred yards.Another guy loves his .280 and 30-06, and still a couple of others that use the 7mm 08 and 7mmSTW.

I think many calibers can be used effectively including the .308 if someone takes the time to become proficient. Not everyone does , nor do they use the correct loads for them. That is and remains part of my point.

30-06 range I would not shoot at an elk beyond about 400 yrds or so. However I do not use the 30-06 any longer because I do not train with it.From what I know the BC is about the same as a .308 depending on the load. Though the energy of the 30-06 is greater and it bucks the wind better. I just do not hunt with the 30-06 any longer.

Maybe MM can speak about his hunting experience with the 30-06 he dwarfs and how well it performs....
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe MM can speak about his hunting experience with the 30-06 he dwarfs and how well it performs.... </div></div>

An excellent place to start
smile.gif


I have friends here who swear by their 270 - I would not feel comfy with my 243 save FOR a neck shot..
I haven't shot an elk in years though, damn good eating too - far better than moose IMHO...


 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Arctic Light,

I'm not saying the SPBT is bad. THat type of projectile was all I used before I got into the precision shooting game. Nor will you read negative commentary from me about the 30-06. It was my first rifle , one I used up until about nine or so years ago. I just do not shoot it any longer except on occasion.


All I am saying is there are other proven and efficient alternatives. Nothing more.

I am not pushing a fancy high tech bullet by any means. I have just discovered their efficiency. Like I said up until the past nine years I hunted with my Walnut/Blue Rem 700bdl using factory ammunition. So to speak negatively about their usefullness was not my intent.

Out west- that would be me. In Idaho in the high desert, and SW Colorado are my favorite hunting areas . Dillon Montana and Arizona as well.

EDIT: Incidentally, SW Colorado has dark timber areas that are much like you describe that are bordered by plains and large meadows which can require long shots.



 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">30-06 range I would not shoot at an elk beyond about 400 yrds or so. However I do not use the 30-06 any longer because I do not train with it.From what I know the BC is about the same as a .308 depending on the load. Though the energy of the 30-06 is greater and it bucks the wind better. I just do not hunt with the 30-06 any longer.</div></div>

That right there is some funny shit....

I guess the BC of the 30-06 case would tend to be better seeing as it is a little longer... LOL!!!

Shane, I gotta say I laughed out loud at your commentary above. Great stuff. ;-)
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Wow...how to f*** up a legitimate post 101.

Suzuki...at the minimum you can probably see that the .30 cal. offerings from most manufacturers are adequate given the parameters you mentioned (.308, elk, 200yds or less, Arizona). The .308 at "average" velocity levels for a given bullet weight will serve you well as long as you do your part.

Try a load/offering from any of the major manufacturers. If you like it, use it. If it performs well on your chosen game and the conditions you hunt in, keep it. No harder than that.

On a side note...Don't for one minute buy into the hype regarding the "lead free" bullets. I'm sure they work well...I've got a couple boxes of Barnes on my bench as we speak and intend on trying them in an '06 this year on bear but magic elk medicine they are not. I'm sure a Barnes TSX will out penetrate a comparable Hornady Interlock but one thing that is usually failed to mention is the Hornady will penetrate enough. As AL mentioned, spire point lead cored bullets have been putting steak in the freezer for decades and they continue to do so. If you want to try them, go for it and don't feel "under-gunned" for a second. If you're worried about a lead ban then that's an entirely different story and topic for another discussion.

For the rest of the audience...Montana Marine's a good guy...no poser there. Thanks for your service Marine.

 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

errr prezactly.

In actuality, the 30-06 is better, but just by a bit. I confirmed this in my wind tunnel via the Dyson vacuum system. I then Examined the grain structure of both via my portable microwave system. And in fact the 30-06 is better.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RGraff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I usually do my best to stay out of these b.s. discussions but this was too much...The bc of a .308 is about the same as a 30-06? WTF? </div></div>

Is it not about the same depending on the bullet? THe fact that the 30 06 is a better round won't be challenged by me. So other than making a bigger deal out of my comment than what is intended what is your point?

I do not have alot of experience shooting the 30 06 any longer so I haven't got relevant information to offer.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">30-06 range I would not shoot at an elk beyond about 400 yrds or so. However I do not use the 30-06 any longer because I do not train with it.From what I know the BC is about the same as a .308 depending on the load. Though the energy of the 30-06 is greater and it bucks the wind better. I just do not hunt with the 30-06 any longer.</div></div>

That right there is some funny shit....

I guess the BC of the 30-06 case would tend to be better seeing as it is a little longer... LOL!!!

Weda,


Shane, I gotta say I laughed out loud at your commentary above. Great stuff. ;-) </div></div>


Exactly where did I state/infer that ? I qualified my comments with "from what I know" and that I have shot it very little in the past nine years.

So than other than other than sucking up to your blow buddy what is your point?


 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Suzuki,
I have a couple of good articles dealing with hunting with the 308. One is with Finn Aargard and I think the other is with John Barsness. Mr Aargard felt that you should taylor the bullet construction with the game your hunting, but stick with the 150gr weight with the 308. He did mention that he had a buddy that used Federal High Energy with the 180gr Partition and had great success on big game including a big cow elk. I haven't gotten and shot on elk yet but there are enough really seasoned hunters around here that have told me a 165gr Partition in the 308 has taken them plenty of elk. If you want I could did them up so you could review the articles info.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

I started writing a lengthy reply in response to your statement, wave, and qualified my remarks with what I felt was factual reference material so that those who don't know any better might glean a tidbit or two of information. But after the fourth or fifth paragraph I thought...what's the point. This is why I stay out of this crap.

Someone with a better sense of humor than mine please sound off and explain the whole bc thing please. I'll just end up getting pissed and want to kick a cat or something.

Good advice GFB and good reading.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">errr prezactly.

In actuality, the 30-06 is better, but just by a bit. I confirmed this in my wind tunnel via the Dyson vacuum system. I then Examined the grain structure of both via my portable microwave system. And in fact the 30-06 is better. </div></div>

That is the funniest thing I have heard in a while!!! Between marinating tenderloin in shit and 30.06 bc's, I won't have to do any ab workout for a couple of days. My sides are killing me! Holy thread degeneration!
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

RGraff,
You were doing the samething I was doing and came to the same result LOL. Yeah those are two really good writer's. No nonsense, extremely factual, and write what they did or seen. Sure do miss Mr Aargard, atleast we have Mr Barsness. in any case any responcible hunter has a good probability of cleanly taking elk with the 308, a good bullet, and a good shot.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">30-06 range I would not shoot at an elk beyond about 400 yrds or so. However I do not use the 30-06 any longer because I do not train with it.From what I know the BC is about the same as a .308 depending on the load. Though the energy of the 30-06 is greater and it bucks the wind better. I just do not hunt with the 30-06 any longer.</div></div>

That right there is some funny shit....

I guess the BC of the 30-06 case would tend to be better seeing as it is a little longer... LOL!!!

Weda,


Shane, I gotta say I laughed out loud at your commentary above. Great stuff. ;-) </div></div>


Exactly where did I state/infer that ? I qualified my comments with "from what I know" and that I have shot it very little in the past nine years.

So than other than other than sucking up to your blow buddy what is your point?


</div></div>

Oh please, sucking up. Not hardly, I do respect him though. You might want to consider his background, his knowledge, and do the same.

Now, as nicely as I can, because I love sucking up.... I'll type slowly...

BC has very little to do with the CARTRIDGE. 30-06 and 308 are CARTRIDGES.

let me know when you understand that.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do not have alot of experience shooting the 30 06 any longer so I haven't got relevant information to offer.</div></div>

If you had any. You wouldn't be in this pickle. The Cartridge hasn't changed all that much, in well, a long fucking time.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Wave's a ballistic expert.....except when he isn't.

Wave only takes ethical shots....except when he doesn't.

Wave always gets to within archery distance....except when he can't.

Wave understands BC is assigned to chamberings????....except when he doesn't. Good God you're fucking ignorant!

An arrow can kill an elk ethically, but not a 200gr Accubond, or any number of other projos, at 308 speeds.

Wave doesn't understaned that a 30 cal 180-ish projo hitting at 2000+ fps has worked damn reliably for over 100 years. Not being able to concede that simple truth, coupled with his total ignorance of anything ballistic, shines like a fucking beacon. It's akin to not believing that Rosie O is a nasty pig.

Next will no doubt come another round of internet bravado, where he will threaten tell me all these things to my face.

The silly fuck thought it cute to provoke me, now he can't get me to go away.....
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

BTW wave' Yes I do shoot a fair bit of polymer. VMax, AMax, TTSX, and some Accubond on ther ready rack.

Have yet to see any of it respond like a nuclear warhead on impact. Musta been the 308 Win factor.....
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

waveone.....youve totally discredited yourself here.

Hang it up!

Where are the photos of all the trophy game youve killed?

And what the hell is a .260 magnum?

And by the way I dont think much of you calling an ex marine who served his country for 25 years a "natzi prick". What you need is a good smack down.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Wave, any and all Marines are worthy of respect for character and commitment. An E-9 as MM appears to be from his signature also is worthy of listening to for his knowledge. It is an extraordinarily hard-earned achievement of a lifetime.

MM, here's a tip of the hat to you.

 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk


From what I know the BC is about the same as a .308 depending on the load. Though the energy of the 30-06 is greater and it bucks the wind better. I just do not hunt with the 30-06 any longer.

Ok i am just learning about this stuff but i always thought that the BC had to do with the bullet, not the cartridge?
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Ok i am just learning about this stuff but i always thought that the BC had to do with the bullet, not the cartridge? </div></div>

You would be correct.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

scan0010-1.jpg


suzuki:

Here is a 345 B&C 6x6 Bull Elk taken by one of my hunters in October 2008.

Rifle: GAP Surgeon .308
Scope: 3-12 S&B PM II
Load: 165 Nosler Accubond
MV : 2775 FPS.
Range: 267 Meters
Result: VERY DEAD ELK!!!

Good luck...go get em!!
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

scan0034.jpg



Heres another one....taken by a fellow who guides for me with my GAP Surgeon .308 with 2 broadside shots at 447 meters.

He never went 10 feet after the first shot. This 6x6 went 360+ B&C.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

PGS I think I hate you
wink.gif
. You have the 4 out of 5 things that I want, the rifle, the scope, the elk and the job! Now if you say that your married to Jennifer Connelly I'll know that I hate you.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Suzuki, I think it might have been mentioned in the shambles that followed but if your looking for an over the counter load the Federal High Energy with the 180 Nosler would also be tough to beat. 180gr slugs at 2700fps dont usually bounce off of most elk
smile.gif


Good luck on the hunt and start building the body because the real work will start when your bull dies in the deepest, nastiest hole it can find.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

Wow. This has almost been as entertaining as someone going up against NOBODY! Just not quite as many F-Bombs.

Wave: you speak in generalities, often resulting in imprecise and erroneous statements. The more you back-pedal, the deeper the hole gets you are digging for yourself. Learn some respect. You're starting to sound like an Internet Mall Ninja--not even a real one. You are just plain rude.

And before you go blasting your sputum across the internet, get your facts straight. Ballistic Coefficient has to do with the projectile, not the cartridge. Both the 30-06 and 308 shoot the same diameter projectile. The '06 has a definite edge on velocity and energy, and as such the projectiles will behave consistent with a higher BC, even though they are the exact same ones used in the 308. Go read a Sierra reloading manual. It gives different BC values for different velocity ranges for the same bullet, no matter which cartridge it is loaded in.
 
Re: .308win ammo for Elk

scan0035.jpg


Heres one more...I guided this guy in 2007 to this great bull. One of the largest ive ever guided. He grossed 373 and netted 364 2/8 B&C.

Don shot this bull with a 30/06 shooting a nosler 180 grain accubond loaded to 2700 fps. A velocity easily duplicated with a .308 shooting the same weight bullet.

The rifle is a GAP built R-700, Lilja BBL, 10x S&B PM II.

The shot was 100 meters.