390 grain Hornady A-Tip load development 375 Cheytac

[cameljockey230]

FarmerBrown32
I wasn't doubting your reloading experience I just didn't want you or anyone else to think loading into the lands was going to blow up your gun.
As you can read in the link Berger Bullets recommend 10 thousandths into the lands and they don't want anyone destroying guns.

I always recommend that anyone starting a load development start with the bullet seated at the maximum length they will ever use.
That means if your only shooting from a bench that you can't possibly seat it any deeper OR
if your shooting it out of a magazine that your as long as it can cycle in your gun without feeding issues.
Those 2 variables can be huge.
I then find my safe maximum load by going up in powder charge and stop when I am at a safe load for my combination.
You will find accuracy nodes are pretty much the same percentage of powder charge from each other so given the data supplied in this post 133 137 and my own 141 I would put money on it that 129 shoots good as well.
Stick with the Peterson brass it is light years ahead of anything else.

 

[232593]

@Farmerbrown32 & @wooferocau what is your H50BMG load and what is your humidity level?

 

[Farmerbrown32]

135g and around 40-50% humidity

 

[232593]

135g and around 40-50% humidity

What powder lot#?

And your .120” off the lands right?

 

[secondofangle2]

232 really wants to know what humidity your powder is equilibrate say when you reload, I think, and what are your practices regarding leaving it in the hopper, storage, etc. and even if he’s not, I am

I opened a new container a fresh lot of H50BMG. Relative humidity was 51-54% from the factory, measured w Kestrel D2 drop in the keg

I loaded up 50 with 133 grains and I was 80(!) fps slower than my previous powder that I think equilibrate close to my RH in my garage which is about 20%.

And I/we are wondering if this is so-called lot-to-lot variation, or a humidity thing

 

[wooferocau]

@Farmerbrown32 & @wooferocau what is your H50BMG load and what is your humidity level?

133gr ...020" off lands..

 

[232593]

133gr ...020" off lands..

What’s the humidity level where you shoot & load?

 

[wooferocau]

Approx 70% at present

 

[wooferocau]

Had a new Desert Tech SRS owner out on the weekend shooting my HTI with the above load.
He was shooting at 1100yds...groups sizes were from 3" to 5" .... accuracy from the HTI and this load is just superb......VERY consistent.

 

[wooferocau]

Just for info....comming up to 24 loadings on my batch of 50 Bertram Brass...
Probably retire them in very near future.

 

[232593]

Just for info....comming up to 24 loadings on my batch of 50 Bertram Brass...
Probably retire them in very near future.

Damn, you anneal after each firing?

How are the primer pockets?

 

[wooferocau]

Yea anneal every loading.
Some pockets are definitely on the edge of using....probably should of called it quits around 20ish loadings .....but was just curious to see how far they would go.
Out of the batch of 50...have lost 5 or so with neck failures..

 

[secondofangle2]

I’ve had a couple Bertram lately with Headcase separations. I was bumping the shoulder by about 5000 because I had two different chambers one of which was retired, and I wanted to make sure that I sized enough for the random pieces that got in there from a different chamber. some of them would come out having been bumped to 7000. I don’t think that’s enough to cause a case of separation but maybe it did. I’m inclined to think they were just a little thin at the edge of the web.

 

[232593]

That is pretty wild. Im at 135 grains of h50 with my factory dt barrel and only gettin 2800 fps with the 390 atip. But its super accurate.

Differing powder humidity levels.

 

[wooferocau]

Well...its been a great run with this batch ( 50) of Bertram brass....24 loadings in total..

Realistically should of retired them around the 20 loading's mark... Lost 5 with split necks and just now had the first head separation, and after inspection most look look they are at that point.

Just ordered 500 new .
I have also just received my batch of '4000" 390gr A-tips...
I have 3 New Desert Tech 375ct barrels to wear out!! Fun times ahead..

 

[wooferocau]

Just for interest...

My factory DT 375CT barrel at 1300rnds......still shooting 1/4 moa !!!!!!

 

[NightStash]

Well...its been a great run with this batch ( 50) of Bertram brass....24 loadings in total..

Realistically should of retired them around the 20 loading's mark... Lost 5 with split necks and just now had the first head separation, and after inspection most look look they are at that point.

Just ordered 500 new .
I have also just received my batch of '4000" 390gr A-tips...
I have 3 New Desert Tech 375ct barrels to wear out!! Fun times ahead..

What is your load difference between the Bertram and Peterson if you've used it? Thanks

 

[cameljockey230]

What is your load difference between the Bertram and Peterson if you've used it? Thanks

He is 2-3 nodes lower than most competitve shooters.
.
One can shoot blackpowder and get 60+ firings from soft brass and you will actually wear out the flashhole before the rest of the brass.

45-70 shooters using blackpowder will keep the same brass for over a decade

 

[232593]

Just for interest...

My factory DT 375CT barrel at 1300rnds......still shooting 1/4 moa !!!!!!

We’re those 1300 rounds majority ATIPS?

 

[232593]

Well...its been a great run with this batch ( 50) of Bertram brass....24 loadings in total..

Realistically should of retired them around the 20 loading's mark... Lost 5 with split necks and just now had the first head separation, and after inspection most look look they are at that point.

Just ordered 500 new .
I have also just received my batch of '4000" 390gr A-tips...
I have 3 New Desert Tech 375ct barrels to wear out!! Fun times ahead..

What’s your ES on that 2880ish load you have?

Reason I ask is with this 3rd barrel mine seems to like that speed with H50BMG and Peterson brass. It takes me 136 grains of H50BMG to get there as of now.

 

[232593]

What is your load difference between the Bertram and Peterson if you've used it? Thanks

With RL50 and a Desert Tech HTI, I have noticed that Bertram Brass can handle several more grains than Peterson can before pressure signs start to show, just like @secondofangle2 observed in early posts on this thread. I have not done a test with Bertram & H50BMG yet.

 

[NightStash]

He is 2-3 nodes lower than most competitve shooters.
.
One can shoot blackpowder and get 60+ firings from soft brass and you will actually wear out the flashhole before the rest of the brass.

45-70 shooters using blackpowder will keep the same brass for over a decade

Ok but I'm not sure what that has to do with my question. I'm only curious in the load difference to achieve the same results.

 

[cameljockey230]

Ok but I'm not sure what that has to do with my question. I'm only curious in the load difference to achieve the same results.

The nodes are roughly not exactly 3% apart so if your load with Peterson brass 141 grains one node down would be around 137 two nodes down would be around 133.5 three nodes down would be around 130 all using the same powder.
These are just get you in the ballpark numbers because everyone's reamer and gunsmith are different.
With Bertram brass you will never get to 141 grains as the primer pockets will fail.
So if your stuck with Bertram brass start around 132 grains and you will hit a node very quickly.

 

[NightStash]

The nodes are roughly not exactly 3% apart so if your load with Peterson brass 141 grains one node down would be around 137 two nodes down would be around 133.5 three nodes down would be around 130 all using the same powder.
These are just get you in the ballpark numbers because everyone's reamer and gunsmith are different.
With Bertram brass you will never get to 141 grains as the primer pockets will fail.
So if your stuck with Bertram brass start around 132 grains and you will hit a node very quickly.

Again that has nothing to do with my question. I'm only interested in the difference between Peterson and Bertram brass for the same speed.

 

[cameljockey230]

There is only 1 grain of water capacity difference between the Bertram and Peterson brass i own so the powder variation is infintesomly small.
You will get a bigger variation case to case.
The load data remains the same.
If you buy the select Peterson brass the deviation is under 1 grain.

Typical 300 Weatherby brass made by Norma weighs 212-220 grains and if you were to shoot RWS or Dynamit-Noble it weighs 298 grains and would require a reduction in powder charge all else being equal.
Hope that answers your question.

 

[NightStash]

There is only 1 grain of water capacity difference between the Bertram and Peterson brass i own so the powder variation is infintesomly small.
You will get a bigger variation case to case.
The load data remains the same.
If you buy the select Peterson brass the deviation is under 1 grain.

Typical 300 Weatherby brass made by Norma weighs 212-220 grains and if you were to shoot RWS or Dynamit-Noble it weighs 298 grains and would require a reduction in powder charge all else being equal.
Hope that answers your question.

Ok I had been informed internal capacity varied more than that so was curious

 

[cameljockey230]

I have 122 loaded rounds with less than 0.7 grains variation loaded.
On a case this size that is fantastic.
The benchrest guys will typically sort through 1000's of rounds and batch them I'n like groups.

Unsorted Peterson brass weighs just over 370 grains and the total variation is 2 grains.
Bertram variation is around 4 grains but the reason it isn't as popular here is because it doesn't handle pressure as well and the primer pockets loosen up on mouse fart loads.

The same reason shooters choose Lapua Brass over the other brands.

 

[wooferocau]

We’re those 1300 rounds majority ATIPS?

Initially 100 or so were Berger 379 Solids and Cutting Edge 352gr Solids... Then after ALL have been the 390gr A-Tips..

 

[wooferocau]

What’s your ES on that 2880ish load you have?

Circa ...15fps..

 

[wooferocau]

on mouse fart loads.

My "Mouse fart" load does VERY VERY well thanks...out to 2500mtrs which is as far as i shoot!

 

[232593]

Circa ...15fps..

And you are loading them .100 off the lands right?

 

[wooferocau]

And you are loading them .100 off the lands right?

No.. .020"

390 grain Hornady A-Tip load development 375 Cheytac

Yes.. :) Ok good that you are not having the issues I was with the custom Bartlein Barrel kit I have. Mine would not chamber on new factory RWS brass without being sized quit a bit.

www.snipershide.com

 

[232593]

No.. .020"

390 grain Hornady A-Tip load development 375 Cheytac

Yes.. :) Ok good that you are not having the issues I was with the custom Bartlein Barrel kit I have. Mine would not chamber on new factory RWS brass without being sized quit a bit.

www.snipershide.com

Tracking your original, for some odd reason I thought you had changed it with the new barrel.

 

[232593]

My "Mouse fart" load does VERY VERY well thanks...out to 2500mtrs which is as far as i shoot!

No kidding, 1300 rounds through the barrel and 20+ reloads on average is pretty awesome.

 

[secondofangle2]

Mines bigger than yours! facetious

 

[cameljockey230]

No kidding, 1300 rounds through the barrel and 20+ reloads on average is pretty awesome.

With Bertram brass its outstanding.

 

[MarcC11B]

Ok I had been informed internal capacity varied more than that so was curious

I originally ran Jamison brass until Bertram came out. It was a step up in quality. I later went to Peterson and found it to be “tougher”. The issues I had with Peterson were:
-I HAD to anneal halfway down the body past the shoulder to fire form into Snipetac. Learned this after having incipient case separation up near the shoulder on several cases. After calling them the annealing down the case body is what we came up with, and they replaced the ruined cases.
-had to drop charge from Bertram brass several grains.
-I eventually bought more and the lot number was different, and the brass had an internal capacity several grains different than the first. I called them again asking if this was normal, which they said “no” and again offered to replace. I think this time I just bought matching brass from them.
Good company to speak to and try to remedy any adverse customer experiences.

 

[secondofangle2]

The very first batch of Peterson weighed, 372 grains and had 2 to 3 grains less capacity than Bertram as you would expect because it weighs about 350 grains. The more recent Peterson weighs about 387 grains, and has about five grains less capacity than Bertram. I have a whole thread on this and on the Peterson website you can see the weights of their various different batches and lot numbers and how they have varied over the seven years or so that this brass has been available.

Most people are going to go with Peterson as they should because the pockets stay tighter longer, and it has better availability and lately it costs significantly less than Bertram. It is however, soft, and shows ejector swipes early. If you are using Bertram and you are happy, there is no compelling reason to scuttle it all and go to Peterson and I don’t like comments on this thread insinuating guys are somehow pussies if they are using Bertram and not loading it as hot as guys are loading Peterson. Mouse farts and all that my bigger dick than yours bullshit

 

[cameljockey230]

The very first batch of Peterson weighed, 372 grains and had 2 to 3 grains less capacity than Bertram as you would expect because it weighs about 350 grains. The more recent Peterson weighs about 387 grains, and has about five grains less capacity than Bertram. I have a whole thread on this and on the Peterson website you can see the weights of their various different batches and lot numbers and how they have varied over the seven years or so that this brass has been available.

Most people are going to go with Peterson as they should because the pockets stay tighter longer, and it has better availability and lately it costs significantly less than Bertram. It is however, soft, and shows ejector swipes early. If you are using Bertram and you are happy, there is no compelling reason to scuttle it all and go to Peterson and I don’t like comments on this thread insinuating guys are somehow pussies if they are using Bertram and not loading it as hot as guys are loading Peterson. Mouse farts and all that my bigger dick than yours bullshit

I have used Peterson for as long as it has been out because Jamison and Bertram at the time were both horrible and couldn't handle pressure.
My current brass holds just over 370 grains of water and lot to lot consistency has never been an issue.
I didn't call anyone pussies I merely pointed out that if your shooting inferior brass the only way to make it last is to indeed shoot mouse fart loads.
I fully realize if I speak from more experience shooting in and running matches than secondofangle2 has ever even read about he will get his feelings hurt just like always. Anybody remember him and Harry? If you don't use his advise he has cramps and gets very moody.
What I did like about his post is he recommends Peterson brass now because the primer pockets stay tighter longer than Bertram even though it's softer brass?????
As to the cost I never realized shipping brass halfway around the planet would make it more expensive than local brass.
Lolroflmao

 

[232593]

Circa ...15fps..

That is near what I get. I’m going to add .001” of neck tension and drop the charge by .5 grains and see if it improves a bit.

 

[Taylorbok]

Do you guys notice much better splash from the A-tips vs solids
on and off target.

 

[wooferocau]

Do you guys notice much better splash from the A-tips vs solids
on and off target.

Oh Yeah !!!

See pic ...2500yds... Berger 379 Solid vs 390 A-Tip..

 

[Rocketmandb]

Oh Yeah !!!

See pic ...2500yds... Berger 379 Solid vs 390 A-Tip..

Sorry if I missed it - what solids are those?

 

[Rocketmandb]

Sorry if I missed it - what solids are those?

Duh - nvm - just saw "Berger"

 

[wooferocau]

BERGER 379gr

 

[Rocketmandb]

BERGER 379gr

Caught that right after I hit post

I'm going to be trying the Badlands with the aluminum tips - probably shoot out my existing barrel with them to see how they do. But I'll likely just go over to the A-Tips.

 

[wooferocau]

Technically ...the Berger's shouldn't shoot from the DT 1in10" twist. BUT they are superb performers ...they are just horrendously expensive here in Aus...circa $6.50 each
The 390 A-Tips are less than half that..

 

[232593]

Technically ...the Berger's shouldn't shoot from the DT 1in10" twist. BUT they are superb performers ...they are just horrendously expensive here in Aus...circa $6.50 each
The 390 A-Tips are less than half that..

Your HTI Barrel is 1:10? Mine is 10:5. How’d you swing a 1:10?

 

[232593]

Oh Yeah !!!

See pic ...2500yds... Berger 379 Solid vs 390 A-Tip..

Damn, what kind of steel is that? AR500?

 

[wooferocau]

Your HTI Barrel is 1:10? Mine is 10:5. How’d you swing a 1:10?

Sorry ...10.5..