5.56 AR Only Loads

[Snuby642]

Not sure what if anything I was doing that delt with hornady 68g bullets?

Today I re measured my chamber and the Sierra 69g bullets.

I found the error in the load and where the data came from.The source of the discrepancy has been advised.

I will have to redo my tests without the bullet starting in a jammed condition.

Suppriseing how far a bcg will slingshot a projectile to get into battery.

Update: Removed the word "bad" from in front of data.

Just strange to me that 0.025 thousand difference in coal for different powders listed on same pages.

 

[Snuby642]

Wee haw
All the tac / 69g data runs them long.
Hit my lands and caused some pressure .

Funny the H335 loads with the same bullets run shorter and don't hit the lands . Faster than the tac but at that rate figure the node to be narrower towards the top.

Work in progress at the 50 yard lab.

23.3 had only 4 shots due to a loose primer. 23.9 looks promising.

May as well do it right and bracket both, one shot on the 23.3 may have been shanked but as is both are about the same size.
Also need to open the gas block back up a 1/4 turn.

 

[USGILT]

Wee haw
All the tac / 69g data runs them long.
Hit my lands and caused some pressure .

Funny the H335 loads with the same bullets run shorter and don't hit the lands . Faster than the tac but at that rate figure the node to be narrower towards the top.

Work in progress at the 50 yard lab.

23.3 had only 4 shots due to a loose primer. 23.9 looks promising.

May as well do it right and bracket both, one shot on the 23.3 may have been shanked but as is both are about the same size.
Also need to open the gas block back up a 1/4 turn.

View attachment 8290075

That 23.9gr load looks like a winner.

 

[Snuby642]

That 23.9gr load looks like a winner.

Got to figure it's on a 50 yard range, heavy bags on a bench indoors.

So a little less impressive. Lol
23.3 and the 23.9 are both about 3/4 moa when you do the math. But ya not bad .

Then again that barrel has shot 3/8 moa with 52g and 55g once the load was finished.

Come to think of it both with H335, an old school favorite in 223.

I may have to change brass if I keep getting fliers, or learn to drive an ar. Lol

Edit: Forgot to add it was Frontier range brass.

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Anyone loading Hornady 75 AMax'x to Mag. length ?

 

[welditforyou]

Sorry.


Jim

 

[Mrindecisive]

What neck tension/ interference, is common to run with when reloading for a semi auto?

 

[xsn10s]

Anyone loading Hornady 75 AMax'x to Mag. length ?

I use ASC mags and load 73 ELDMs out to 2.300". I tested 75 ELDMs at 2.380" ish single fed. but if I cut out the front of my ASC mags I should be able to seat out around 8 rounds to 2.380" without modifying my magwell. The 73 gr EDLM is a max load, the 75 ELDM isn't. But both are the most accurate loads for the bullets so far.

 

[Snuby642]

Old school wisdom was 0.004 on semi auto.

I run 0.002 and a slight crimp on everything and have never found a problem.

I can do the shove test on a piece of wood and can't move it, also measured some that were chambered and removed up to 6.5g and no movement.

Also have been hard to remove in an inertial puller.

I have not tested anything larger.

 

[mettee]

77 SMK
23.4 Varget
LC +
BR-4
CLE chamber

SD not good; accuracy is.

I wanted to say try a cci 450 primer in that load. Obviously back down a little first and work back up.

 

[Enoch777]

Not much experience in loading for ARs. Looking for experienced opinions on where to start. Loading 75 grain Hornady BTHP match for 18” Ballistic Advantage SPR mid length gas .223 Wylde barrel. I have a choice between Varget or StaBall Match for powder choice. Which is preferred and why, and go to loads and stats of your favorite to start with.

 

[semperfireloading]

Stick with the Varget over the Staball Match. You will get better results. As far as starting, load it to OAL 2.255" and start with the powder at around 23 grains and increase it up to about 24.5 or so and you will find something you like.

 

[mrcheesemoose]

curious if anyone has had success using noslers 70 grain rdf in an ar. I’m thinking of loading some up with n140, varget, or staball match.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

curious if anyone has had success using noslers 70 grain rdf in an ar.

You'd be the first.

 

[Todc]

24.1 gr VV N140
CCI 41
Starline 5.56
73 gr ELD-M

2660 fps in a WOA 18" SPR
SD 9.3

 

[samsgreen]

I rookie posted this in the other section, then I found you good folks.

In the quest to feed 3 AR's (one is a buddies) and a Ruger American Ranch and duplicate IWI Razorcore 77 SMK I finally found what I was hoping for, thought I'd share it.

Win brass (or range pickups) Win/whatever brass
23.3 Benchmark 23.0 Benchmark
CCI 400 CCI 400
77 SMK 77 Tipped SMK

I'm using Okay mags and seat them at 2.250/2.255 and I have not seen any pressure signs.

 

[ZA206]

Found that the 53 VMAX and 26.6 gr of Staball Match play very nice together. LC match prepped brass with REM 7.5 primers
shot out of my Bartlein 20” 1:7.7 4-groove with CLE chamber.

See seating depth test below….

 

[ZA206]

Did some comparisons of Staball Match vs. Varget using the same exact loadings. I did this with several different bullets, here is the 69 TMK as an example.

 

[towerofpower93]

@ZA206 do you think that little guy off to the left on your 24.9gr group with the 69br SMK was a flyer? Guessing no, as the preceding groups were getting larger, but all three of those (24.5, .7, .9) all look respectable save for the outliers.

Do you think you're at max with StaBall Match and the 69gr SMK, or are you planning to go higher and see if the groups shrink back down like the 53gr test?

 

[ZA206]

@ZA206 do you think that little guy off to the left on your 24.9gr group with the 69br SMK was a flyer? Guessing no, as the preceding groups were getting larger, but all three of those (24.5, .7, .9) all look respectable save for the outliers.

Do you think you're at max with StaBall Match and the 69gr SMK, or are you planning to go higher and see if the groups shrink back down like the 53gr test?

Unfortunately not. I’ve been trying different powders for a while now with the 69 TMK and that bullet just doesn’t like being pushed hard in my rifle so far. My TAC trial showed +3” groups at the top end… lol. It’s been difficult to get good groups out of this bullet. I’m starting development with faster powders to see if I can find a good load. I’d love to get to 2850+ with good accuracy and no pressure, but I’m not holding my breath. The only reason I keep working this bullet is because I got like 1500 of them and I refuse to give up.

Powders I’m trying over the next few weekends…
AR Comp
N530
H322
N133
A2520 (not faster, but different)

 

[Snuby642]

Did some comparisons of Staball Match vs. Varget using the same exact loadings. I did this with several different bullets, here is the 69 TMK as an example.

View attachment 8342960

Are you sure you are not in the lands ? I had to drop all the way down to 2.230 inches to stay out of them on smk 69's. (0.006 jump)

Half the data out there said 2.250 and the other half said 2.230 coal.

Are you testing powder and changing seating in the middle of that?

 

[ZA206]

Are you sure you are not in the lands ? I had to drop all the way down to 2.230 inches to stay out of them on smk 69's. (0.006 jump)

Half the data out there said 2.250 and the other half said 2.230 coal.

Are you testing powder and changing seating in the middle of that?

No where even close to the lands in this AR rifle.

In my varget vs. Staball match comparisons…charges with a ”C” out beside them means compressed. If it has a “+.00x” out beside it, that means it’s compressed and with the same seating die setting it grew that much longer. None of the Staball match loads are compressed.

 

[Snuby642]

GTG @ZA206 .

Looked like loads when I was in the lands, over pressure signs would not come that last bit togeather no matter what.

Between house daddy / babysitter and stacking a pickup truck worth of firewood for the smoker I did crank out a small batch of 69's for a final check before setting up the progressive.

Now maybe I get to shoot them.

Just got to help my son with a cow. Let's see rope got it , horse no, would be easier if it were not a skiddish longhorn limping around in pain. May make last weekend cutting wood look like fun?

Don't lowball my widow on the primers and powder.

 

[ZA206]

@ZA206 do you think that little guy off to the left on your 24.9gr group with the 69br SMK was a flyer? Guessing no, as the preceding groups were getting larger, but all three of those (24.5, .7, .9) all look respectable save for the outliers.

Do you think you're at max with StaBall Match and the 69gr SMK, or are you planning to go higher and see if the groups shrink back down like the 53gr test?

@towerofpower93

Here is the original 53 VMax comparison. I’ve shot these over 3300 fps using Benchmark powder, but Ive only got like 1/2 lb of that stuff, so it’s kinda pointless.

 

[towerofpower93]

@towerofpower93

Here is the original 53 VMax comparison. I’ve shot these over 3300 fps using Benchmark powder, but Ive only got like 1/2 lb of that stuff, so it’s kinda pointless.

View attachment 8344018

Not sure what you're using this bullet for, but I'd be happy with sub-MOA and an extra ~100fps from a powder that meters from a PM better than Varget, is cheaper than Varget, and seems to be in-stock more regularly (unlike Varget)

ETA: of course, I go to Hodgdon's website right now and Varget is in stock but not StaBALL Match, haha, but you get what I'm saying.

 

[Snuby642]

52 / 53g and H335 runs 3200fps +

 

[Billiam1211]

Just adding my miles here. I have a stockpile of Varget and IMR 4064 which I wanted to save for my other precision long guns so decided to try A2520 for the 18-inch AR. My rifle has a Proof Research 18-inch Stainless barrel on it and a PLX 1-8x on it, so I don't really care as long as I'm holding sub-minute consistently.

I kept load development it REAL simple. Loaded 24, 24.5, and 25 grains of A2520 with 77gr SMKs, CCI #41, Lapua Brass, and 2.260" COAL and hit the 100 yard range. Needless to say, I'm pretty happy with Accurate 2520. I caught a couple shots on my my buddy's Garmin chrono around 2,730 fps. Curious how this load will perform at 600. I think the 0.3 may have had a little luck involved - but the load clearly shoots.

 

[mettee]

You settle on 24.5 gr?

I to went with A2520, I think it's a great choice.

 

[Billiam1211]

You settle on 24.5 gr?

I to went with A2520, I think it's a great choice.

Yep. Pretty sure testing further is just a waste of components. Next range trip with this guy I’m just going to validate data and call it good so I can save the Varget for my PRS gun

 

[mettee]

It's funny because I think that's exactly where I settled as well but I'm using the cci 450. I think they have the same power but the 41 has harder cups.

 

[XP1K]

My first venture with 2520 and 77 tmk's was similar. Winchester standard small rifle, 24.5gr of 2520, oal. 2.245, LC cases. Came in around .75moa.

I was trying to make 25.0gr work but it was hit or miss. Dropped back to 24.5 and bingo! I've got 50 loaded to verify at distance but I'm seven twelves for the next nine weeks at a minimum so it'll be a while before I get to shoot them.

Edit to add, this was in a 14.5" pws.

 

[OkieMike]

Rumor has it that AA 2520 and Shooters World Match Rifle are the "same" powder.

Based on small batch tests that I've done, the rumor seems to be true. Minor differences, but we're talking small, like lot to lot variations in difference.

So if one is out of stock, try the other if it's available... Might keep you shooting.

Mike

 

[Ex E6]

Rumor has it that AA 2520 and Shooters World Match Rifle are the "same" powder.

Based on small batch tests that I've done, the rumor seems to be true. Minor differences, but we're talking small, like lot to lot variations in difference.

So if one is out of stock, try the other if it's available... Might keep you shooting.

Mike

Yeah it's simply repackaged and was once produced by Lovex as , Lovex D073-06 .

Many powders are repackaged as someone Else's # and brand and distributed via one or the other wholesalers .

H110 = Winchester 296 or vice versa actually .

 

[OkieMike]

Yeah it's simply repackaged and was once produced by Lovex as , Lovex D073-06 .

Many powders are repackaged as someone Else's # and brand and distributed via one or the other wholesalers .

H110 = Winchester 296 or vice versa actually .

It was explained to me that Lovex used to be who supplied it to AA... But for whatever reason AA found someone else to buy it from. However, the formulations are so close as to be indistinguishable.

Either way, it's pretty good stuff. Not exactly temp stable but good stuff nonetheless.

Mike

 

[ZA206]

So one of the best loads I’ve developed is the 77 TMK with XBR-8208 with REM 7.5 SRP in Winchester brass. I found this particular load shortly after I built my Bartlein barreled precision AR. Over time, I’ve refined it, and also worked it up for LC brass. The loading in LC brass is my standard HD load and the one I zero all my 223/5.56 rifles to. It shoots great in every rifle, and my 16” Proof AR shoots it in just as small of groups as the Bart.

I also seem to have a good amount of PMC and PPU brass that I never seem to have a good use for, so I decided to see if I could rework it for the TMK+XBR combo.

So I weighed some of my brass, which was all wet tumbled, resized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred, flash holes uniformed and primer pockets cleaned & crimps cut out. Average weights were as follows (weighed on my AD FX120i):
LC- 92.0 gr.
Winchester 223 - 92.9 gr.
PMC - 92.4 gr.
PPU - 94.9 gr.

My LC load is 23.8 gr, and the Winchester load is 23.7 gr. I tried the charges in the image below… very happy with the PMC 23.8, as it’s right there with the LC loading… which makes sense as the brass weight is very close to LC.

I think the PPU just has too little case capacity and it doesn’t quite work in this 5.56 pressure range.

Anyway, fun little experiment. Don’t let anyone tell you the 77 TMK can’t shoot tiny groups! (target shot at 100 yards on my private range)

 

[Huckleberry75]

Interesting! I am running 8208, 77tmk in Winchester brass but at the next node down. I am running 23.1gns. Looks like I need to venture up for little more 🌶. I also have a full 5gal bucket of 1x fired PMC bronze brass too..
Guess i know what my next range trip will be testing. Thanks for posting your findings.

 

[towerofpower93]

So one of the best loads I’ve developed is the 77 TMK with XBR-8208 with REM 7.5 SRP in Winchester brass. I found this particular load shortly after I built my Bartlein barreled precision AR. Over time, I’ve refined it, and also worked it up for LC brass. The loading in LC brass is my standard HD load and the one I zero all my 223/5.56 rifles to. It shoots great in every rifle, and my 16” Proof AR shoots it in just as small of groups as the Bart.

I also seem to have a good amount of PMC and PPU brass that I never seem to have a good use for, so I decided to see if I could rework it for the TMK+XBR combo.

So I weighed some of my brass, which was all wet tumbled, resized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred, flash holes uniformed and primer pockets cleaned & crimps cut out. Average weights were as follows (weighed on my AD FX120i):
LC- 92.0 gr.
Winchester 223 - 92.9 gr.
PMC - 92.4 gr.
PPU - 94.9 gr.

My LC load is 23.8 gr, and the Winchester load is 23.7 gr. I tried the charges in the image below… very happy with the PMC 23.8, as it’s right there with the LC loading… which makes sense as the brass weight is very close to LC.

I think the PPU just has too little case capacity and it doesn’t quite work in this 5.56 pressure range.

Anyway, fun little experiment. Don’t let anyone tell you the 77 TMK can’t shoot tiny groups! (target shot at 100 yards on my private range)

View attachment 8381851

Very nice. My go-to long range load is a 77gr SMK or TMK over 23.6gr of 8208 in a prepped once fired LC case. Seems 23-24gr of 8208 under a 75-77gr bullet is easy button territory.

 

[ZA206]

Interesting! I am running 8208, 77tmk in Winchester brass but at the next node down. I am running 23.1gns. Looks like I need to venture up for little more 🌶. I also have a full 5gal bucket of 1x fired PMC bronze brass too..
Guess i know what my next range trip will be testing. Thanks for posting your findings.

Just an FYI... I anneal after every firing, and set neck tension with a .222" Sinclair turning mandrel after I full length body size. I also lube the necks with Imperial dry lube prior to seating bullets. The neck tension & seating pressure consistency and CBTO length is paramount to getting good accuracy with these (they aren't forgiving like many other Sierra bullets). My 2.245" COL is more of a reference dimension (same COL that Black Hills uses), as I only really ever measure the CBTO (using Hornady comparator). 23.8 gr. is slightly compressed, so be diligent in being consistent in how you handle the charged cases prior to seating the bullets (I use an Area 419 drop tube)... measure CBTO on every round.

Good luck!

-ZA

 

[ZA206]

Very nice. My go-to long range load is a 77gr SMK or TMK over 23.6gr of 8208 in a prepped once fired LC case. Seems 23-24gr of 8208 under a 75-77gr bullet is easy button territory.

I resize my cases -.003" off as fired from my CLE Bartlein chambered AR. If I resized them all the way back to min. spec, 23.6 would probably be close to the same results as my current 23.8 load.

 

[misser]

I still use 2 to 3 thou

does that really mean anything ? if brass is annealed its going to be different from brass thats not annealed myself i can get different force pressures in seating bullets any where from 30 psi to 100 psi

 

[JR1200W3]

does that really mean anything ? if brass is annealed its going to be different from brass thats not annealed myself i can get different force pressures in seating bullets any where from 30 psi to 100 psi

So what means something?

 

[misser]

So what means something?

ideally seating pressure should be the same +- from cartridge to cartridge. just because the brass is believed to be set the same does not mean it is .hence flyers

 

[JR1200W3]

ideally seating pressure should be the same +- from cartridge to cartridge. just because the brass is believed to be set the same does not mean it is .hence flyers

Seating pressure can come from neck surface condition and/or circumferential pressure. Hence why neck tension isn't holistic in it's description, to your point. So you get to choose one metric or the other, each with their flaws. So when the gen pop asks about neck tension, I reply with neck tension measurements.

Seating pressure is just a more complicated way to accomplish the same thing. It doesn't improve "accuracy of description".

 

[misser]

Seating pressure can come from neck surface condition and/or circumferential pressure. Hence why neck tension isn't holistic in it's description, to your point. So you get to choose one metric or the other, each with their flaws. So when the gen pop asks about neck tension, I reply with neck tension measurements.

Seating pressure is just a more complicated way to accomplish the same thing. It doesn't improve "accuracy of description".

complicated ?? no, it just requires more expensive equipment

 

[simonp]

I did a search in this thread, perhaps my search-fu was weak, but I didn't see much posted on BL-(C) 2. I know it listed in numerous manuals, has anyone found a really good recipe/ use for it with 55's or 69's? I have a bunch of it and would like a use besides just going bang in close under 50 feet.

 

[misser]

Seating pressure can come from neck surface condition and/or circumferential pressure. Hence why neck tension isn't holistic in it's description, to your point. So you get to choose one metric or the other, each with their flaws. So when the gen pop asks about neck tension, I reply with neck tension measurements.

Seating pressure is just a more complicated way to accomplish the same thing. It doesn't improve "accuracy of description".

complicated ?? no, it just requires more expensive equipment

 

[JR1200W3]

complicated ?? no, it just requires more expensive equipment

Regardless, It doesn't provide a better descriptor than neck tension

 

[misser]

i really cant help it if the correct description of neck tension is in reality the amount of pressure needed to seat a bullet into sized brass. brass can get so hard that it can take well over 100 psi of force to seat a bullet . telling us that you have 2-3 thousands of resistance means nothing . its only a guess . i invite you to watch some youtube of the use of the AMP press

 

[JR1200W3]

i really cant help it if the correct description of neck tension is in reality the amount of pressure needed to seat a bullet into sized brass. brass can get so hard that it can take well over 100 psi of force to seat a bullet . telling us that you have 2-3 thousands of resistance means nothing . its only a guess . i invite you to watch some youtube of the use of the AMP press

Does seating pressure really matter anymore?

This is about load data. If you want to argue about your preferred reloading product go do it somewhere else. The rest of us remain unimpressed.

 

[misser]

Does seating pressure really matter anymore?

This is about load data. If you want to argue about your preferred reloading product go do it somewhere else. The rest of us remain unimpressed.

if not there's a whole lot of guys wasting a whole lot of money to make it happen