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50 Bmg Blow up....
- Thread starter frank320
- Start date
Thank you.
We don't know yet that the ammo was a problem. The gun might have come apart at 2ksi, or 100ksi. The only thing we know is that it came apart, and in the process it created unacceptable harm to the user.
Fortunately, catastrophic firearm failures are relatively rare, and ones that severely injure the user even more so. Nevertheless, this has me re-thinking some of the solo range trips I've done.
One way to mitigate the risk is to use high quality firearms. Orkan did a video a couple weeks ago where he loaded his DT with pistol powder and it held together. I read somewhere that TRG rifles can contain 220,000 PSI. That’s one reason why they cost so much, and a Savage costs so little.
Not really an obstruction in the barrel the obstruction is outside the barrel.If he would of filled the barrel with concrete then the barrel would have failed.
Time stamped at the concrete barrel plug. Quick search shows .45 is only 21k psi though.
Concrete would blow out like a plug because it shrinks when it cures but I was shocked that it did clear without damage. I would imagine that the pressure built up between the bullet and the plug and that the plug was pushed out before the bullet even hit it.
Peak pressure in a center-fire rifle happens with the bullet just into the rifling or very close to that point. With a long barrel over 95% of the powder is burned before the bullet exits and often 99%. This means you could literally cap the barrel at the millisecond the bullet exits and the pressure wouldn't increase dramatically. This was not caused by a muzzle break obstruction.
I think we have just witnessed how hard it is to blow up a firearm.......even a cheap ass hipoint.
I wish I knew enough to say why that shotgun exploded and the pistol didn't, but I don't lol. I can only guess the ratio of wall thickness to bore size + metallurgy in that shotgun can't handle obstruction.
Perhaps...really what I felt was regret.
So going forward what do you think they will settle on.....
Lifetime supply of SLAP and a new rifle?
Hoop stress is proportional to pressure and diameter, and inversely proportional to wall thickness. Shotguns have barrels with large diameters and thin walls, and so they tend to go "pop" at lower pressures than pistols and rifles.
I doubt you'll find one outside of extreme catastrophic failure (the whole rifle just grenades)
At no point was I ever defending the rifle itself. Terrible design that has deadly failures.
I have read much of this thread and watched the videos. What a freakin’ dumpster fire
. I wouldn’t by a used moped from this guy. This video alone shows his laissez-faire attitude and near contempt for safety protocols.It seems obvious in the design of this rifle that this “Kentuckian” is damn lucky to be alive. The design leads one to believe that if 10 people blow this rifle up 9 would be dead. Perhaps all 10......
The way he talks about the negligent discharge, is a window into his general attitude regarding safety considerations. It’s not that mistakes and accidents don’t happen but if I were to tell that story and it had been me, I would be much more embarrassed about it. It would be a major learnable moment, not a “war story”.
Mr. Kentuckian may well let this pass without filing a lawsuit. BUT, folks need to remember that his health insurance company is under no such obligation. As bills rise, they may well seek recompense. I saw this happen to a young lady who started a fire in a boarding house with a cigarette. And she didn’t have a proverbial pot to piss in.
As someone else is already stated in this thread, this hurts the industry as a whole with regards to insurance premiums. I looked at his video where he’s discussing the blowup and almost all the comments are positive from his fan boys. It’s really quite shocking.
Sure Mr. Kentucky may share blame for his choice of ammo. But it seems clear that there are no built in fail safes for an over-pressure round causing catastrophic failure. This could happen with a bad round new off the shelf from a reputable manufacturer. With modern manufacturing there seems little excuse for not implementing fail-safes in the design process.
I thought that as well when i first saw the kaboom video, but my opinion changed a bit when the KB guy mentions (in a separate video) that he specifically discussed the ammo with the Serbu guy, and Serbu guy sent him a barrel specifically so KB could use the SLAP rounds.
So the KB guy was properly concerned about safety and contacted the manufacturer. Manufacturer hears the safety concern and sends a new product SPECIFICALLY to allow the use of the rounds in question and the near-death incident happens.
Hi,
This may get long, so I apologize in advance if it does....
Here is my stance on this situation:
1. No firearm, no matter how shitty of a design can have a catastrophic failure such as the KB one without AMMO.
So the shooter is accountable for that but only that portion of the event in its' entirety. I do not believe the shooter is accountable for anything after pulling the trigger.
2. Once the KB guy essentially started the entire chain of events it is the FIREARMS job to stop the chain of events from being so catastrophic.
In this exact rifle design that starts with something as simple as 45 degree (away from shooter) gas vent holes in that screw cap.
Simply done via 2 drills with a 1/4 inch bit.
That way even during complete case head rupture the gases would not blow the threaded cap off in that such a manner.
As soon as the gas "escaped" the "boltface" area in this screw cap design it put too much force across a larger section in which ripped the screw cap off. No amount of threads in that alloy was going to hold that screw cap on.
In this exact rifle design we can get deeper into the science of it in regards to that screw caps actual weight.
For example IF that screw cap was twice its weight (not size, but alloy weight) then the same amount of pressure would not be able to blow it with same speed and force.
In turn slowing the entire series of events down in regards to how deep the KB throat was cut??
In turn slowing the entire series of events down to the 2 rabbit ears could have helped better since the cap would not have been going with such speed??
Some firearms forensic examiner in Italy threw out some formulas in which the objects would have been moving at a 1/4 of the speed so in theory KB cuts would be a 1/4 of the depth they are right now.
Same examiner has offered to examine this rifle free of charge and anyone want to wager IF he gets that opportunity??
Sincerely,
Theis
This may get long, so I apologize in advance if it does....
Here is my stance on this situation:
1. No firearm, no matter how shitty of a design can have a catastrophic failure such as the KB one without AMMO.
So the shooter is accountable for that but only that portion of the event in its' entirety. I do not believe the shooter is accountable for anything after pulling the trigger.
2. Once the KB guy essentially started the entire chain of events it is the FIREARMS job to stop the chain of events from being so catastrophic.
In this exact rifle design that starts with something as simple as 45 degree (away from shooter) gas vent holes in that screw cap.
Simply done via 2 drills with a 1/4 inch bit.
That way even during complete case head rupture the gases would not blow the threaded cap off in that such a manner.
As soon as the gas "escaped" the "boltface" area in this screw cap design it put too much force across a larger section in which ripped the screw cap off. No amount of threads in that alloy was going to hold that screw cap on.
In this exact rifle design we can get deeper into the science of it in regards to that screw caps actual weight.
For example IF that screw cap was twice its weight (not size, but alloy weight) then the same amount of pressure would not be able to blow it with same speed and force.
In turn slowing the entire series of events down in regards to how deep the KB throat was cut??
In turn slowing the entire series of events down to the 2 rabbit ears could have helped better since the cap would not have been going with such speed??
Some firearms forensic examiner in Italy threw out some formulas in which the objects would have been moving at a 1/4 of the speed so in theory KB cuts would be a 1/4 of the depth they are right now.
Same examiner has offered to examine this rifle free of charge and anyone want to wager IF he gets that opportunity??
Sincerely,
Theis
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I think another issue here is shear vs compression.
Bolt lugs want to fail in shear. Shear failure when everything is designed right is really hard to achieve. VERY high pressures. Additionally very few bolts with lugs seal so tightly that they need much of a pressure venting system.
Compare that to “El Pipe Bomb de la Serbu”.
Threads. And a cap. Perfect fucking seal. And those threads will partially want to shear and partially want to decompress. There are threads that don’t fail that way (ACME for example) but yeah.
Bolt lugs want to fail in shear. Shear failure when everything is designed right is really hard to achieve. VERY high pressures. Additionally very few bolts with lugs seal so tightly that they need much of a pressure venting system.
Compare that to “El Pipe Bomb de la Serbu”.
Threads. And a cap. Perfect fucking seal. And those threads will partially want to shear and partially want to decompress. There are threads that don’t fail that way (ACME for example) but yeah.
Going forward, I am going to make sure I am at least aware of what guns and ammo is being used around me at the range. If I see a "screw top" pipe bomb look alike rifle, shooting surplus ammo, I am getting the hell out of Dodge...
Blurb from a truthful owners manual:Looks to me like there is little concern - if the gun blows up, the parts go back towards the operator and not to the sides
Be aware you are the containment system for shrapnel. Any explosions will be contained in your head and chest cavity to ensure the safety of fellow range users.
Thank you for volunteering - your service is appreciated.
Once again he shows why he should not be a weapon designer.
he had his buddy run calculations...that means you never ran them in the design stage.
for proper tread/attachment strength there is a specific torque value that the cap needs to be applied with, that’s mechanical engineering 101. It’s not just material strength.
are the threads cut at proper size and depth on the cap and “receiver”
the list goes on but it’s too early in the morning to beat a dead horse.
If this is his best attempt at a explanation, his lawyer should be fired as well because his lack of knowledge can be considered negligent at this point.
piblic service announcement...never shoot this model serbu again.
he had his buddy run calculations...that means you never ran them in the design stage.
for proper tread/attachment strength there is a specific torque value that the cap needs to be applied with, that’s mechanical engineering 101. It’s not just material strength.
are the threads cut at proper size and depth on the cap and “receiver”
the list goes on but it’s too early in the morning to beat a dead horse.
If this is his best attempt at a explanation, his lawyer should be fired as well because his lack of knowledge can be considered negligent at this point.
piblic service announcement...never shoot this model serbu again.
Hi,
Does this guy have the same legal team as Rittenhouse??????
1. What is a false fact?
2. Of ALL the certified failure analysis companies in the USA, why go to some off the clock mechanical engineer in the Ukraine? Especially for firearms analysis since there are literally 3 firearms manufacturers in the entire country and only 1 of them have a rifle you want to shoot.
3. HRC in the LOW 30s for 4140?? Is that a mis-statement because that is crazy low, lol.
This pretty much sums up every CYA video he can post.
Sincerely,
Theis
Does this guy have the same legal team as Rittenhouse??????
1. What is a false fact?
2. Of ALL the certified failure analysis companies in the USA, why go to some off the clock mechanical engineer in the Ukraine? Especially for firearms analysis since there are literally 3 firearms manufacturers in the entire country and only 1 of them have a rifle you want to shoot.
3. HRC in the LOW 30s for 4140?? Is that a mis-statement because that is crazy low, lol.
This pretty much sums up every CYA video he can post.
Sincerely,
Theis
Not to pile on, but it was said earlier several times
Another issue with that video is containement...
1) EG when your "backup" safety is the "ears"...
2) And YET the "ears" become the shrapnel...
3) And there is no shield between the shrapnel and the Head/neck (Jugular etc)...
You have a to acknowledge "potential" design flaw.
Another issue with that video is containement...
1) EG when your "backup" safety is the "ears"...
2) And YET the "ears" become the shrapnel...
3) And there is no shield between the shrapnel and the Head/neck (Jugular etc)...
You have a to acknowledge "potential" design flaw.
Hi,
He really just needs to stop with everything, count his blessings that KB is not suing, pray that KB insurance company does not sue, recall every serial number of this model that has left his shop, file the insurance claim for the recall and focus on his other models..specifically ensuring they have adequate overpressure ventilation features.
Let this entire situation die off (No pun intended).
Edited To Add: To show why he needs to stop with videos and clearly FIRE his legal team.
His own "new" video says the design is 3x as strong as it needs to be YET the same video is touting 160k pressures is what it took to rip the thread cap off...
NATO EPVAT lists maximum BMG pressures at 60,481...so in his own words that would be his design could take 181,443 yet his own words are touting it took 160k to have this failure.
CIP pressures list 53,664 as max so that would be 160,992.....you get the point!!! (He can't fall to this one because he didn't conduct the CIP proof load test..or clearly he would be all over video showing such tests)
Sincerely,
Theis
He really just needs to stop with everything, count his blessings that KB is not suing, pray that KB insurance company does not sue, recall every serial number of this model that has left his shop, file the insurance claim for the recall and focus on his other models..specifically ensuring they have adequate overpressure ventilation features.
Let this entire situation die off (No pun intended).
Edited To Add: To show why he needs to stop with videos and clearly FIRE his legal team.
His own "new" video says the design is 3x as strong as it needs to be YET the same video is touting 160k pressures is what it took to rip the thread cap off...
NATO EPVAT lists maximum BMG pressures at 60,481...so in his own words that would be his design could take 181,443 yet his own words are touting it took 160k to have this failure.
CIP pressures list 53,664 as max so that would be 160,992.....you get the point!!! (He can't fall to this one because he didn't conduct the CIP proof load test..or clearly he would be all over video showing such tests)
Sincerely,
Theis
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he had a "buddy" do the analysis?.......that literally doesnt mean shit......as we dont know the level of training of that "buddy".....we dont know what type of mechanical engineering he does (dude could do HVAC for all we know)....and there is 0 accountability if the analysis is wrong.
also, having a "buddy" do an analysis for you AFTER the fact is a conflict of interest...
it also means that Mark didnt do any analysis in the design phase if he had to have someone do the analysis before he could quote actual numbers.....he literally didnt even know what pressure the threads could actually hold....and he was selling that to the public, think about that for a second.
also, "it doesnt even need secondary safety features....but it has those ears, and they are ALMOST strong enough to handle bolt thrust on their own"
jesus christ Mark...STOP!....STOP MAKING VIDEOS......and for the good of humanity....STOP MAKING GUNS.
What I find additionally frightening is that if you follow his latest vid to YT and look at the comments below, they are all glowing compliments for this guy, this gun, and his "analysis" of its safety, and his openness and transparency.
He HAS to be editing the comments and deleting those he doesn't have. Either that or, based on those comments, humanity is doomed due to abject congenital stupidity.
He HAS to be editing the comments and deleting those he doesn't have. Either that or, based on those comments, humanity is doomed due to abject congenital stupidity.
Here is a question I have.
why would you send the destroyed rifle back to this jackass? He will have the only piece of evidence if he decided to finally sue.
if he did not do proper testing before sending them out what is going to make him do an actual test that means anything now.
why would you send the destroyed rifle back to this jackass? He will have the only piece of evidence if he decided to finally sue.
if he did not do proper testing before sending them out what is going to make him do an actual test that means anything now.
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Probably something they might want to remove from the website also...
There are things in this world that you can simply look at and confidently boast "look at that build quality and attention to detail". It doesn't take a degree in mechanical engineering to look at that weapon and make judgement there.
SHTF 50 is another death magnet out there, along with Noreen. Not my personal opinion, it's proven fact.
Umm, no thanks - I'm good! With a string for the YouTube views and good vibes, sure... I guess?
There are things in this world that you can simply look at and confidently boast "look at that build quality and attention to detail". It doesn't take a degree in mechanical engineering to look at that weapon and make judgement there.
SHTF 50 is another death magnet out there, along with Noreen. Not my personal opinion, it's proven fact.
Umm, no thanks - I'm good! With a string for the YouTube views and good vibes, sure... I guess?
Is the Noreen garbage?
I haven't heard too much about them but they look like a pretty stout design
Not as bad, not good, but no where nearly as bad as the RN-50! I can't link much on them because it's mostly stuff I read on FCSA (subscription required), but mostly people end up complaining of the firing pins ability to strike when in partial battery or ruptured cases skeeting a ton of hot gasses straight at your face from around the bolt body. Not a confidence inspiring thing to shoulder.
I don't believe the problem is structural integrity during a normal course of fire. It's how they react when something goes seriously wrong (which is really what matters but few will boast about). That gas it going to find the path of least resistance and it's generally not through the bore unfortunately.
My AW50 for instance - I feel 100 percent confident when I get behind that beast due to the engineering both on the bolt itself and the action. I've always wanted to call up AINA and order 100 replacement pressure disks just so they would be like "WTF are you doing"?
Attachments
If you blow a pressure relief plug, they are going to want you to send that back to the factory for safety inspection.
Years ago someone on the Hide here posted the whole story with videos and such of such an event caused by a case head rupture.
Yeah, I would imagine so. Like most of my reloading, I tend to be rather methodical (but a bit more so with 50 BMG). Hope they never pop out, hehe.
I saw a picture a while back where someone left a cleaning rod in the barrel accidentally and fired it. No harm to the shooter, the barrel at least was destroyed.
whats even funnier is that in one of the original videos serbu actually jokes that his welder was a "pot head".
from the looks of the welds above i would say hes right
Another reason he should be shut down, knowingly employing someone who is a active drug user and letting him work on firearms.
Not just welding a bipod stud on but actually welding the pipe/receiver together.
...i guess the serbu doesnt have a drug policy in place
Those are all the fan boys. They don't want to lose their poor mans 50 cal. I am convinced 75 percent of humanity are morons.
That will never happen this guy has too big an ego and at the same time he is such a bozo god knows what insurance if any he has lulz
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