6.5 creedmoor AR Only

[padom]

Post your 6.5cm gasser load data

 

[padom]

22" PVA Bartlein
+2 Gas


123 Lapua Scenars
H4350
Testing old load in new barrel





130 ELD-M
Varget
Converted LC 7.62 Brass OCW






22" Keystone Accuracy Bartlein
Rifle Gas


130 Berger Hybrids
H4350 OCW





130 ELD-M
H4350

 

[towerofpower93]

This thread has my interest. Getting my dies and 200pcs of SP Starline brass tomorrow to start working up 123gr ELD-M and 130gr Berger AR Hybrid loads for a 22” +2 Odin Works barreled upper.

Was thinking about going with Staball once the brass is once fired and just using W748 on the initial firing to see if I like using the 650 and Dillon PM for this round.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

interested in this as well.

 

[Birddog6424]

I run the 140gr RDF at 2720fps with 42.4grs of H4350.

Custom built AR, 22" Ballistic Advantage Hansen profile barrel. I shoot a lot of very small groups with this rifle..

 

[MERICA-LRS]

123gr SMK
Varget 39.3gr
hornady brass

 

[rlh_20]

120 ELD 2.710 OAL (.090 jump) or
123 Lapua Scenar 2.790 OAL (.060 jump)
Hornady Brass
Fed 210m
44.2 H 4350
2810 and 2860 FPS respectively
Seekins SP10

 

[fxdrider]

Palmetto State Armory
PA65
20" bbl
Hornady 147gr. ELD-M
Hornady brass (on 3rd firing)
CCI 200 primers
Winchester StaBall 6.5 powder - 43.7 gr. (over Hodgdon listed max load!)
2.81" COAL. - 2684 fps - E.S. 12 - S.D. 5.3

Target was for zeroing scope after installing new mount. Group 1 hit low. Group 2 I over-corrected slightly. Group 3 on the money.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

Anyone have any N550 loads? Thinking about giving this powder a try, since I can't find much H4350.

 

[towerofpower93]

Ran a quick velocity ladder with full length resized, virgin, small primer Starline brass and StaBall under a Berger 130gr AR Hybrid. The adjustable gas block was basically shut during this ladder, as I didn't want to beat up the gun as I went up in charge weight. No pressure signs on any of the brass, but I presume the bolt barely unlocking had a hand in that.

Thinking I'll load up 20 each at 44.6gr and 45.6gr to get the gas system up and running and see what groups and velocity data I can start collecting.

22" Odin Works w/ +2 gas 6.5C MATEN suppressed w/ SDN-6
130gr Berger AR Hybrid
Rem 7.5 SR primer
Virgin Starline brass FLR'd
StaBall 6.5
OAL 2.750” puts the base of the 130gr AR Hybrid at the shoulder/body junction

43.2 2685
43.4 2756
43.6 2741
43.8 2770
44.0 2834
44.2 2824
44.4 2808
44.6 2802
44.8 2797
45.0 2847
45.2 2863
45.4 2854
45.6 2872
45.8 2859
46.0 2895

Anyone else played with the 130s and StaBall in a gasser yet?

 

[max1840]

N555 or N550? Velocities don’t look great for N550.

I've used N555 with 130 Berger's and 140 Hornady ELDM's and it shoots well although I've got about 50fps less than H4350 for the 130's and that's using the Vihtivuroi listed maximum. I may push it a bit further since I saw no excessive pressure signs. It does fill the case more than H4350

 

[Dschapp44]

Definitely on the slower side but brass looks brand new coming out of the gun. Lapua SRP brass and H4350 out of a 24 inch Bartlein spun up by craddack.

 

[russkim04]

Berger hybrids....ar rifles have huge bullet jump. Focus on hybrids or tangent profiles. Heavy for caliber will promote higher bc and buck wind better

 

[towerofpower93]

Ran a quick velocity ladder with full length resized, virgin, small primer Starline brass and StaBall under a Berger 130gr AR Hybrid. The adjustable gas block was basically shut during this ladder, as I didn't want to beat up the gun as I went up in charge weight. No pressure signs on any of the brass, but I presume the bolt barely unlocking had a hand in that.

Thinking I'll load up 20 each at 44.6gr and 45.6gr to get the gas system up and running and see what groups and velocity data I can start collecting.

22" Odin Works w/ +2 gas 6.5C MATEN suppressed w/ SDN-6
130gr Berger AR Hybrid
Rem 7.5 SR primer
Virgin Starline brass FLR'd
StaBall 6.5
OAL 2.750” puts the base of the 130gr AR Hybrid at the shoulder/body junction

43.2 2685
43.4 2756
43.6 2741
43.8 2770
44.0 2834
44.2 2824
44.4 2808
44.6 2802
44.8 2797
45.0 2847
45.2 2863
45.4 2854
45.6 2872
45.8 2859
46.0 2895

Anyone else played with the 130s and StaBall in a gasser yet?

Finally was able to get out and put the 20rd groups past the LabRadar and on to a target.

Both loads easily held 1.5-2” groups of 5-9 shots per group. Wasn’t super focused on accuracy as I was messing with getting the scope roughly zeroed, setting up the adjustable gas block, and ensuring I got a large enough dataset to see if there was anything to StaBall and this newly assembled rifle. For instance, I shot five single shots of each to look for LRBHO and pressure signs before loading the mag with the remaining 15 and putting random groups on the target.

I’m scratching my head with regards to some of the outliers in the below, but I presume the virgin, albeit full length resized, brass is playing a part along with having to figure out my pace of running the XL650 so as to ensure it’s dropping as close to exact as possible with StaBall and the 6.5C case.

Shot 20rds, but had one failure to capture on the LR for each group, oddly.


04JAN2021
22” 6.5C AR-10 suppressed w/ SDN-6
130gr Berger AR Hybrid
Rem 7.5 SR primer
Virgin Starline brass FLR’d
StaBall 6.5
OAL 2.750”

44.6gr

19rd group
Lo: 2735
Hi: 2815
Avg: 2774
ES: 80
SD: 19.2

2753
2763
2786
2781
2769
2778
2802
2815
2784
2785
2777
2783
2781
2751
2735
2750
2762
2763
2781

Throw out 2815

ES: 67
SD: 16.2

45.6gr


19rd group

Lo: 2807
Hi: 2871
Avg: 2841
ES: 63
SD: 18.9

2871
2844
2845
2845
2833
2862
2838
2865
2868
2840
2859
2834
2838
2807
2808
2812
2831
2837
2850

Throw out 2807, 2808, 2812

ES: 40
SD: 12.9

Planning to do another 20-30 of 45.6gr and really focus on having a consistent stroke on the press as well as doing a series of 5rd groups focusing on accuracy.

 

[russkim04]

I didn't find great accuracy with 130's in my ar. Anyways, steps are as follows. Ladder test 5 shots with .3 grain increments. Find the speed nodes not accuracy. Second, start at max mag length and load your oal lengths smaller by .007" each of your test rounds. Now your looking for accuracy

Example: your tightest speed node comes in at 5 shot group average of 2830 es of 7.... then shoot for accuracy.

 

[towerofpower93]

Got out to run the larger batch past the LR and with a focus on getting groups.

Was getting 1.5” 4-7rd groups so I think I’m done with load dev and will start cranking out en masse when my 32lb order arrives.


21JAN2021
22” 6.5C AR-10 suppressed w/ SDN-6
130gr Berger AR Hybrid
Rem 7.5 SR primer
Virgin Starline brass FLR’d
StaBall 6.5 45.6gr
OAL 2.750”


21rd group

Lo: 2839
Hi: 2896
Avg: 2867
ES: 57
SD: 15.0

 

[russkim04]

More spread than I'd have. If I was you, I'd try berger 144 and 153's. ESPECIALLY with the cold ish powder your using

 

[towerofpower93]

More spread than I'd have. If I was you, I'd try berger 144 and 153's. ESPECIALLY with the cold ish powder your using

When I ran the numbers at 1k it’s a difference of 14” from lowest to highest velocities from that string.

That’s acceptable for my current shooting needs. A 2yo eats up a lot of practice time and makes attending 3-5 matches a month a thing of the past. Current me is far less worried about winning than the old me and I’m just focused on trying to maintain some semblance of competency, haha.

 

[russkim04]

When I ran the numbers at 1k it’s a difference of 14” from lowest to highest velocities from that string.

That’s acceptable for my current shooting needs. A 2yo eats up a lot of practice time and makes attending 3-5 matches a month a thing of the past. Current me is far less worried about winning than the old me and I’m just focused on trying to maintain some semblance of competency, haha.

I completely understand. My youngest is 20

 

[Blazin]

What dies are you guys running?

 

[PorkChop]

I'm using a redding f/l sizer, bumping shoulder back .003-.005. And a redding micrometer seating die.

 

[bobke]

+1 to Redding F/L bushing die, without sizing button, and Micrometer seating die. Use Sinclair .262 mandrel and anneal after every firing. Low runout and SD’s uniformly in single digits. This with Hornady brass.

 

[PorkChop]

I need to try this mandrel process

 

[MOOSE39465]

This is very helpful info thanks.

 

[JohnLTD]

I am working on some 130gr RDF and StaBall 6.5 loads and getting mediocre results. I thought I would share and see if you had any recommendations as to how to get some better SDs with good velocity. Don't mind the group data too much as it was super windy and my target stand was moving and shaking a bit. Being shot from a 22in 1-8 barrel using Hornady brass and cci LR primers, sizing with a Redding Type S full length bushing die with .289 bushing ( I also have a .288). I have not seen any pressure signs as of yet so I am tempted to keep going up.

And on another subject has anyone had luck with the Hornady 140gr BTHP in a gasser?

 

[squarefour]

Anyone have any N550 loads? Thinking about giving this powder a try, since I can't find much H4350.

FWIW I ran 50rds of the VihtaVuori N550 starting load with some 108 Scenars (38.3gns) and it worked fine; fed, cycled and no pressure signs. I can't really speak to the accuracy, except I did occasionally hit the 600yd lollipop.

 

[padom]

I am working on some 130gr RDF and StaBall 6.5 loads and getting mediocre results. I thought I would share and see if you had any recommendations as to how to get some better SDs with good velocity. Don't mind the group data too much as it was super windy and my target stand was moving and shaking a bit. Being shot from a 22in 1-8 barrel using Hornady brass and cci LR primers, sizing with a Redding Type S full length bushing die with .289 bushing ( I also have a .288). I have not seen any pressure signs as of yet so I am tempted to keep going up.

And on another subject has anyone had luck with the Hornady 140gr BTHP in a gasser?
View attachment 7566771

First thing I would do.... ditch those 130 RDF's. Dead serious. I did extensive testing with them in both 6.5cm AR and 6.5x47L and they shot like shit for me in both SD's and accuracy... Thought something was up with my gun honestly they shot so bad. I ended up shooting some known loads with 130 Hybrids and one hole and SD's of 2.. Ditch them. I have had ZERO luck with them in 6.5 and .224......Im also not the only one if you dig up the 70 RDF and 130 RDF threads...

 

[JohnLTD]

First thing I would do.... ditch those 130 RDF's. Dead serious. I did extensive testing with them in both 6.5cm AR and 6.5x47L and they shot like shit for me in both SD's and accuracy... Thought something was up with my gun honestly they shot so bad. I ended up shooting some known loads with 130 Hybrids and one hole and SD's of 2.. Ditch them. I have had ZERO luck with them in 6.5 and .224......Im also not the only one if you dig up the 70 RDF and 130 RDF threads...

I appreciate that as I have seen some of your data on them (sadly after purchasing). The problem is that I have 440 to use and only about 3 weeks to prep for a gas gun match. luckily the targets are generous in size and 90% will be 800yds or closer so even a 1-1.25 moa load will be ok. Any ideas/help will be greatly appreciated. And In the mean time I will continue my search for the 130 hybrids.

 

[towerofpower93]

I appreciate that as I have seen some of your data on them (sadly after purchasing). The problem is that I have 440 to use and only about 3 weeks to prep for a gas gun match. luckily the targets are generous in size and 90% will be 800yds or closer so even a 1-1.25 moa load will be ok. Any ideas/help will be greatly appreciated. And In the mean time I will continue my search for the 130 hybrids.

I'd keep going up into the 45.0+ range.

I found my sweet spot at 45.6gr with the 130gr Berger AR Hybrids.

No pressure signs on virgin/FLR'd Starline SP brass. This is also in a 22' barrel, but with a suppressor and AGB.

Got 32lbs of StaBall direct from Hodgdon a couple weeks back and will be testing another 20rds with the new batch of powder to ensure nothing is off before doing a big batch on the 650.

 

[JohnLTD]

I'd keep going up into the 45.0+ range.

I found my sweet spot at 45.6gr with the 130gr Berger AR Hybrids.

No pressure signs on virgin/FLR'd Starline SP brass. This is also in a 22' barrel, but with a suppressor and AGB.

Got 32lbs of StaBall direct from Hodgdon a couple weeks back and will be testing another 20rds with the new batch of powder to ensure nothing is off before doing a big batch on the 650.

I am going to give it a try and extend the ladder test up to 46 in point .2 increments. Hopefully I see a flat spot. The case is still not totally full even at 46gr. I also have an AGB, no can though. I will hope fully be able to test them out tomorrow and report back.

 

[JohnLTD]

I continued the ladder test and shot another group; data below. From this, my only takeaway was to try a group at 45.1grs as it is the closest thing to a flat spot I have seen thus far. I was pleased to see the SD come back down and the velocity is pretty nice. Given what has been reported on these bullets and this powder, I am not sure what more I can do.

 

[towerofpower93]

Went back out with my 45.6gr load under a Berger 130gr AR Hybrid to confirm my new lot of 32lbs of StaBall wouldn’t give me any issues before mass loading. Happy to say the average is within 1fps to the old lot I had one pound of for testing. Best 5 shot group was .805” center to center. Next was a little over an inch, but I noticed after this the suppressor cover had been scooting forward under recoil and shifting the POI low and right as well as opening it up.

Did a semi-rapid fired 15rd group (~3sec between shots) to see how’d it do under some longer strings of fire. Ended up just under 1.5” center to center.

Think I’m done testing and will run with this load until the barrel dies.


03MAR2021
22” 6.5C AR-10 suppressed w/ SDN-6
130gr Berger AR Hybrid
Rem 7.5 SR primer
Virgin Starline brass FLR’d
StaBall 6.5 45.6gr
OAL 2.750”

Labradar series: 190

30rd group

Lo: 2829
Hi: 2916
Avg: 2868
ES: 86
SD: 17.7

ETA: here’s the rest of my data so it’s all in one place.


21JAN2021
22” 6.5C AR-10 suppressed w/ SDN-6
130gr Berger AR Hybrid
Rem 7.5 SR primer
Virgin Starline brass FLR’d
StaBall 6.5 45.6gr
OAL 2.750”

Labradar series: 189

21rd group

Lo: 2839
Hi: 2896
Avg: 2867
ES: 57
SD: 15.0


04JAN2021
22” 6.5C AR-10 suppressed w/ SDN-6
130gr Berger AR Hybrid
Rem 7.5 SR primer
Virgin Starline brass FLR’d
StaBall 6.5
OAL 2.750”

44.6gr

Labradar series: 183

19rd group
Lo: 2735
Hi: 2815
Avg: 2774
ES: 80
SD: 19.2

45.6gr

Labradar series: 184

19rd group

Lo: 2807
Hi: 2871
Avg: 2841
ES: 63
SD: 18.9

 

[GBMaryland]

LMT MWS 24 inch 6.5 Creedmoor 1:8 Twist (AR10/SR25) OEM Ammo Lab Radar Test Firing

73F at range, 60% humidity, 29.8in barometer


Sellier and Bellot 140 grain FMJ-BT

Series No	5​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2671.42​	fps
Stats - Highest	2688.25​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2639.83​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	48.43​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	14.07​	fps

Spark Munitions 121 grain Lehigh Match Solid

Series No	6​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2987.73​	fps
Stats - Highest	3024.63​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2971.88​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	52.75​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	14.98​	fps

Berger 130gr Hybrid OTM Tactical (Rifle LOVED this)

Series No	7​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2757.56​	fps
Stats - Highest	2786.4​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2725.15​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	61.25​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	20.7​	fps

Hornady 140gr ELD-M

Series No	8​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2720.19​	fps
Stats - Highest	2738.63​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2698.52​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	40.11​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	12.96​	fps

Prime (RWS) 130gr BTHP

Series No	9​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2884.27​	fps
Stats - Highest	2914.82​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2867.46​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	47.36​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	17.06​	fps

Hornady 147gr ELD-M

Series No	10​
Total number of shots	20​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2654.83​	fps
Stats - Highest	2686.87​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2636.17​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	50.7​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	11.68​	fps

 

[GBMaryland]

LMT MWS 24 inch 6.5 Creedmoor 1:8 Twist (AR10/SR25) OEM Ammo Lab Radar Test Firing #2

49F, 46% Humidity, 29.9in Barometric Pressure

Berger 140gr hybrid target (rifle cold)

Series No	11​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2667.48​	fps
Stats - Highest	2682.37​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2640.4​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	41.97​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	14.06​	fps

FGMM 130gr OTM Berger hybrid match (rifle warm)

Series No	12​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2813.12​	fps
Stats - Highest	2830.48​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2801.17​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	29.31​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	10.39​	fps

Hornady 140gr ELD-M (rifle hotish)

Series No	13​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2680.04​	fps
Stats - Highest	2702.1​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2654.15​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	47.95​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	13.55​	fps

Hornady 140gr ELD-M (rifle cooled for 30 minutes) - SD and ES literally half of the prior string.

Series No	14​
Total number of shots	10​
Units velocity	fps
Units distances	yd
Units kinetic energy	ft-lbf
Units weight	grain (gr)
Stats - Average	2670.78​	fps
Stats - Highest	2680.92​	fps
Stats - Lowest	2656.47​	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	24.45​	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	7.15​	fps

 

[JimmyT]

Any one load for shorter barrels (16”-18”) with 140 grain bullets? I’ve been trying to get acceptable accuracy with 130 grain bullets and then had a near 6” group at 600 yards with 140 SMK FGGM.

im getting 200 Barnes 140 grain match burners on friday to test out.

Any help will be appreciated.

 

[JimmyT]

Just went out and shot Barnes 140 grain Match Burners through an 18” barreled AR10 with a criterion stainless steel barrel.

the last three groups across the top row are 40.6 grains, 41.0 grains, and 41.3 grains of IMR 4350

velocity from left to right was 2520 FPS, 2540 FPS, and 2570 FPS.

I started seeing pressure signs with the 41.3 grain load.

my OACL was 2.800” +/- .003”.

im going to go back with the 41.0 grain load with 2.780”, 2.790”, 2.800”, and 2.810” OACL and see which shoots the best.

if anyone has experience or advice, I’m all ears!

 

[GBMaryland]

jimmyt, how'd your follow up work out?

 

[JimmyT]

The sweet spot on this rifle is 2.800” OACL...and 41.0 grains of IMR 4350. Now getting ready to load 20 to test at 200 yards. Also working on loads with 120 grain ELD to see if I can get the speeds up a bit out of the shorter barrel.

 

[Woollymonster]

You guys that are loading near max pressure for your AR, how is the brass holding up?

Is it hard to resize?

 

[JimmyT]

The brass is getting worked pretty hard. I’m going to need to do more research and come up with a lower charge weight.

 

[sch2046]

do you guys crimp your cases? I feel like my bullets get jammed being chambered.

 

[JimmyT]

I use a Lee factory crimp die and give each round a light crimp.

 

[towerofpower93]

do you guys crimp your cases? I feel like my bullets get jammed being chambered.

"Feel like" or have measured actual bullet setback from a chambered and then gently extracted round?

I will crimp using a Lee FCD if the bullet has a canelure, but these are normally lower quality/non-match projectiles so I'm not worried about any jacket deformation.

For my 6.5C AR I run 130gr Berger AR Hybrids and don't use any crimp, just make sure I have .003" neck tension.

 

[JimmyT]

Has anyone had good results with IMR 4451 and Berger 130 AR hybrids or Hornady 140 HPBT?

 

[bobke]

Load work up on new Proof CF barrel after about 90-100 round full break in. 123 Scenar, Hornady annealed brass, F210M. First pass from 41.5 to 42.5gr H4350 in .2 increments led me to 42.3 at .044 off lands. Reconfirmed seating depth in .005” increments and led me right back to .044 off. Not a velocity king, but shouldn’t be too hard on brass, and though a low volume test, shows promise and consistency in limited results.

 

[Pappasniper]

LMT 6.5 CM 20 inch barrel
AGD BRASS, FGGM primers

130 TMK’s
H4350
43 grains

150 SMK’s
40.2 grains

 

[JimmyT]

Had a lot of fun today gathering data on my load of 130 grain Berger AR hybrid with Varget. I defiantly found a velocity/pressure flat spot at 38.3 grains with Hornady brass/ CCI #34 primers, and loaded to 2.750” OACL. Pushing 2705 FPS out of my Noveske N6 with 20” switch block barrel. Loading 10-30 more to confirm at 100-200 yards.

ION, just got the correct gas tube for my “little bastard” with the 16” Wilson Combat barrel. Once my gunsmith gets this installed, I’ll see what this varget load will do in a 16” barrel.

 

[JimmyT]

Hornady brass
Trimmed and annealed
#34 primers
41.7 grains IMR4451
Hornady 140 grain HPBT
2.800” oacl

sub MOA out of a Noveske N6 with 20” barrel
2630 FPS 15SD

similar results with 143 grain ELDx

 

[Desert_Racer]

Any more IMR 4451 users? Have an 8 pounder I'm about to break into now that I'm out of H4350.

 

[Desert_Racer]

How is staball for temp sensitivity?