6.5 creedmoor or 338 Lapua?

[joelinux]

This place, despite the owners of these epic threads beliefs, is very friendly to noobs. No so much for arrogance and unwillingness to listen, it refusing to read before asking the same question that was asked twice already that week or day.

As a noob myself, I was welcomed and treated well.

Yes OP! How dare you not read through literally thousands of threads, that may or may not be outdated by the time you finish due to new products/laws/etc. Or use a dodgy search function that requires even more combing in order to use it right.

Threads and people are here for people to ask questions. Things change. With firearms, even more so. The advice you give a month ago might not be relevant now, for any number of reasons. Accept that your participation on this forum is to lift people up in the moment. Once they get hooked in and up to speed, they may or may not be able to keep up with the latest and greatest. You might have to answer the same question, and your information might become outdated without you realizing it.

Stop being a snob, and realize that information is fluid.

Also, you can get 6.5CM ammo for $.60 a round here, so the earlier estimate of $1 a round is off:
https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/3259-sellier-bellot-65-creedmoor-140-gr-fmj.html

 

[goosed]

Also, you can get 6.5CM ammo for $.60 a round here, so the earlier estimate of $1 a round is off:
https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/3259-sellier-bellot-65-creedmoor-140-gr-fmj.html

Why spend good money on a quality precision rifle and several thousand on the optic. Only to skimp a measly few cents a round on ammo that provides sub-par accuracy?

That's almost as ass backwards as the sponsored guys who hold up the entire match digging in the dirt for 20 minutes a stage to retrieve every last dollar worth of brass.

Buy quality everything including ammo or don't buy any as it's a waste. If money is really that tight you probably shouldn't be spending it on toys and playing games anyways.

 

[joelinux]

Why spend good money on a quality precision rifle and several thousand on the optic. Only to skimp a measly few cents a round on ammo that provides sub-par accuracy?

That's almost as ass backwards as the sponsored guys who hold up the entire match digging in the dirt for 20 minutes a stage to retrieve every last dollar worth of brass.

Buy quality everything including ammo or don't buy any as it's a waste. If money is really that tight you probably shouldn't be spending it on toys and playing games anyways.

If you are trying to drill at 1800+ yards, totally agree with you... However, just learning, and close in stuff, (5-900), these are more than enough. For me anyway.

 

[acudaowner]

I would ask can you shoot the hotter magnum at your local shooting places ? not to mention the extra cost and wear n tear ? If yes man your lucky congrats Its a boy . Good luck on which ever you decide get .

 

[goosed]

If you are trying to drill at 1800+ yards, totally agree with you... However, just learning, and close in stuff, (5-900), these are more than enough. For me anyway.

For a new shooter, I highly recommend quality ammo all the time. As they don't know when the thrown shot is them or the cheap ammo. With quality ammo they at least know when they didn't do their part and by how much they duffed the shot.

It's much easier/faster to learn and make corrections when you know where the errors are coming from.

Not to mention the big reason to spend all that money up front is to shoot tiny (for a given distance) targets or groups consistently. If you're not interested in shooting tiny things all the time, there are much cheaper ways to achieve mediocrity.

 

[seansmd]

I fell into that trap bought some S&B schooled up here by helpful folks, I keep it now to shoot with friends and family. I also keep my RPR for the same reason.

 

[joelinux]

For a new shooter, I highly recommend quality ammo all the time. As they don't know when the thrown shot is them or the cheap ammo. With quality ammo they at least know when they didn't do their part and by how much they duffed the shot.

It's much easier/faster to learn and make corrections when you know where the errors are coming from.

Not to mention the big reason to spend all that money up front is to shoot tiny (for a given distance) targets or groups consistently. If you're not interested in shooting tiny things all the time, there are much cheaper ways to achieve mediocrity.

When you can shoot 19/20 on the target at 900 yards...

I fell into that trap bought some S&B schooled up here by helpful folks, I keep it now to shoot with friends and family. I also keep my RPR for the same reason.

Sounds like a bad operator.

 

[seansmd]

@goosed looks like your wrong

 

[joelinux]

I fell into that trap bought some S&B schooled up here by helpful folks, I keep it now to shoot with friends and family. I also keep my RPR for the same reason.

Also, S&B revised their 6.5CM ammo. The new stuff is Boat-tailed. So much so, that, when we noticed a huge difference at the range, we contacted geoballistics, who made a new entry in their library. The adjustment was spot-on with the manual adjustments we discovered, and we simply couldn't miss until we moved to 900 yards.

 

[goosed]

When you can shoot 19/20 on the target at 900 yards...

First, 19/20 is meaningless without knowing target size/conditions. For example on a 6' x 6' target even black powder muskets can accomplish that task at 900 yds in good conditions.

However, the facts we do know:
1) 19/20 makes you happy vs wanting 20/20
2) You're happy with the updated numbers, even though they are still sub-par BC numbers
3) if the manufacturer rating is correct sub-par velocity numbers are fine for you as well

The above facts are exactly my point... if mediocrity makes you happy by all means have fun with your cheaper ammo, but you could have saved a bunch of $$$ on your setup if mediocrity is all you're looking to accomplish. Unless you're just trying to look cool... then

 

[seansmd]

@goosed

First, 19/20 is meaningless without knowing target size/conditions. For example on a 6' x 6' target even black powder muskets can accomplish that task at 900 yds in good conditions.

However, the facts we do know:
1) 19/20 makes you happy vs wanting 20/20
2) You're happy with the updated numbers, even though they are still sub-par BC numbers
3) if the manufacturer rating is correct sub-par velocity numbers are fine for you as well

The above facts are exactly my point... if mediocrity makes you happy by all means have fun with your cheaper ammo, but you could have saved a bunch of $$$ on your setup if mediocrity is all you're looking to accomplish. Unless you're just trying to look cool... then

@goosed you are going to be corrected in 3,2,.....

 

[TheGerman]

What a silly question.

Just buy a Mk21 MRAD and have both.

 

[goosed]

What a silly question.

Just buy a Mk21 MRAD and have both.

There it is. The correct answer to every question!

 

[AIAW]

What a silly question.

Just buy a Mk21 MRAD and have both.

LOL. True. Or the original MK21 like I did, then rework the entire thing!

Shitty-ass Remington barrels = where’d my contact go!?

 

[joelinux]

First, 19/20 is meaningless without knowing target size/conditions. For example on a 6' x 6' target even black powder muskets can accomplish that task at 900 yds in good conditions.

However, the facts we do know:
1) 19/20 makes you happy vs wanting 20/20
2) You're happy with the updated numbers, even though they are still sub-par BC numbers
3) if the manufacturer rating is correct sub-par velocity numbers are fine for you as well

The above facts are exactly my point... if mediocrity makes you happy by all means have fun with your cheaper ammo, but you could have saved a bunch of $$$ on your setup if mediocrity is all you're looking to accomplish. Unless you're just trying to look cool... then

Targets are Human outline, human size (See bottom of response)

1) Never said that I was happy with it. Just that, for only 3 outings, I seriously doubt I'm doing this on my skill alone. Unless you think that, with that little practice, my skills are just so great that it's the equipment holding me from getting that last shot in. Which would make me some kind of wunderkind. In which case, please say so and speak loudly so @seansmd can hear.
2) Good enough for me to hit 19/20. For what I'm doing, even if I'm arcing more than usual, their numbers consistent, so that I'm still hitting the target routinely. It's all just math. Maybe in stronger winds I'd notice a difference, but I'm not so far.
3) See #2.

What a silly question.

Just buy a Mk21 MRAD and have both.

For the prices listed below, he can buy, and kit two separate RPR rifles.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Actually, I do have a co-worker that is deciding between .338 and 6.5CM. Mechanical Engineer.

There you go again, thinking that information about ones vocation is somehow relevant or that anyone gives a shit.

 

[joelinux]

There you go again, thinking that information about ones vocation is somehow relevant or that anyone gives a shit.

What part of anything I have posted indicates I care about what you have to say with the exception of answering what I have asked for?

 

[LeftyJason]

Actually, I do have a co-worker that is deciding between .338 and 6.5CM. Mechanical Engineer.

There you go again, thinking that information about ones vocation is somehow relevant or that anyone gives a shit.

For alot of us mechanical engineer means somebody with no common sense left if they ever had any to start with.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

@joelinux You're too easy. I think everyone needs to include their job title for the rest of this thread just for giggles.

 

[joelinux]

For alot of us mechanical engineer means somebody with no common sense left if they ever had any to start with.

Yes, and we like it when you get our coffee right the first time, thank you. And quit mis-spelling our names on the cups.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yes, and we like it when you get our coffee right the first time, thank you. And quit mis-spelling our names on the cups.

I finally got yours right.

 

[goosed]

Targets are Human outline, human size (See bottom of response)

1) Never said that I was happy with it. Just that, for only 3 outings, I seriously doubt I'm doing this on my skill alone. Unless you think that, with that little practice, my skills are just so great that it's the equipment holding me from getting that last shot in. Which would make me some kind of wunderkind. In which case, please say so and speak loudly so @seansmd can hear.
2) Good enough for me to hit 19/20. For what I'm doing, even if I'm arcing more than usual, their numbers consistent, so that I'm still hitting the target routinely. It's all just math. Maybe in stronger winds I'd notice a difference, but I'm not so far.
3) See #2.

View attachment 7163485



For the prices listed below, he can buy, and kit two separate RPR rifles.
View attachment 7163490

You're actually not doing too bad horizontally, but 30" of vertical dispersion is far from ideal. Which could be a direct result of velocity variance in your ammo, but we'll never know if it was you or the ammo unless you try something better.

For reference that's almost to 3 times the vertical dispersion we normally see from Hornady Match. To me that is a significant difference in accuracy...

 

[joelinux]

You're actually not doing too bad horizontally, but 30" of vertical dispersion is far from ideal. Which could be a direct result of velocity variance in your ammo, but we'll never know if it was you or the ammo unless you try something better.

For reference that's almost to 3 times the vertical dispersion we normally see from Hornady Match. To me that is a significant difference in accuracy...

Well, I would like to think that if the ammo itself were lacking in precision, I'd see it both horizontally and vertically.

Plus, this testing seems to indicate the velocity is pretty consistent when compared to a Hornady 120 gr A-Max:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/03/19/review-sellier-bellot-65-creedmoor-tactical/

Which, if I'm reading the Hornady site correctly, is a match grade ammo:
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/6.5-creedmoor-120-gr-eld-match#!/

Unless there is something I'm not seeing.

 

[joelinux]

I finally got yours right.
View attachment 7163501

Even online, you mis-spelled my name. Here it is:

 

[goosed]

Well, I would like to think that if the ammo itself were lacking in precision, I'd see it both horizontally and vertically.

Plus, this testing seems to indicate the velocity is pretty consistent when compared to a Hornady 120 gr A-Max:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/03/19/review-sellier-bellot-65-creedmoor-tactical/

Which, if I'm reading the Hornady site correctly, is a match grade ammo:
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/6.5-creedmoor-120-gr-eld-match#!/

Unless there is something I'm not seeing.

First time interacting with you and yet I completely understand why life here is so difficult for you...

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Even online, you mis-spelled my name. Here it is:
View attachment 7163547

Sounds about right. Generally the smarter a person is the more open to they are to people questioning them. Engineers never make it that far, their God Complex is an impassable roadblock.

 

[joelinux]

Sounds about right. Generally the smarter a person is the more open to they are to people questioning them. Engineers never make it that far, their God Complex is an impassable roadblock.

It's only a complex if you are wrong. Otherwise, you are just saving people time.

 

[joelinux]

First time interacting with you and yet I completely understand why life here is so difficult for you...

So, please tell me what I'm not seeing...

 

[TonyTheTiger]

It's only a complex if you are wrong. Otherwise, you are just saving people time.

First sign of a God Complex: always being right
Second sign: finishing every sentence/post with "I'm an engineer"

 

[joelinux]

First sign of a God Complex: always being right
Second sign: finishing every sentence/post with "I'm an engineer"

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

 

[hlee]

So, please tell me what I'm not seeing...

I don't have the desire to look up the splattered greasy shit stain of threads you've left across this forum, but when I see "joelinux has entered the arena" I actually see "this thread ==> shit sandwich in 3, 2, 1..."

Never fails.

S&B for precision? SMFH...

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

C'mon, you can do better than stealing my grandpas jokes...

He wasn't an engineer by the way.

 

[Rthur]

Grab a 6.5 creed.
There are a couple or better factory ammo options that will get the job done well.
After burning a barrel out or more reconsider if you have a real need for a large caliber
option and access to a range long enough to use it.

R

 

[Eostech]

Also, S&B revised their 6.5CM ammo. The new stuff is Boat-tailed.

I would bloody well hope so, it's only the 21st century after all ?

 

[joelinux]

I don't have the desire to look up the splattered greasy shit stain of threads you've left across this forum, but when I see "joelinux has entered the arena" I actually see "this thread ==> shit sandwich in 3, 2, 1..."

Never fails.

S&B for precision? SMFH...

Yes, because companies never improve their products ever. We should just fall back on presumptions. Which is why Honda and Hyandai will always be worse than Ford, Chevy, and GM.

Look at the testing results I provided, and please explain where their methodology fell down.

C'mon, you can do better than stealing my grandpas jokes...

He wasn't an engineer by the way.

Mine was. Trained on the Norden BombSight, then worked for the Department of Energy for 3-4 decades, then taught at Colorado University.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Mine was. Trained on the Norden BombSight, then worked for the Department of Energy for 3-4 decades, then taught at Colorado University.

Hopefully someday you can be half the man he was.

 

[joelinux]

Hopefully someday you can be half the man he was.

I am. He was a real SOB.

 

[AIAW]

 

[hlee]

Yes, because companies never improve their products ever. We should just fall back on presumptions. Which is why Honda and Hyandai will always be worse than Ford, Chevy, and GM.

Look at the testing results I provided, and please explain where their methodology fell down.

Mine was. Trained on the Norden BombSight, then worked for the Department of Energy for 3-4 decades, then taught at Colorado University.

Testing was done in commie units. Can't be trusted.

You must be a blast at parties.

"Hear its going to rain on Friday."

"Yeah, my uncle's a weatherman."

"Yankees are looking good."

"Yup, brother's a sportscaster."

"So, I just put new tires on my pick up."

"My grandmother invented vulcanization."

 

[joelinux]

Testing was done in commie units. Can't be trusted.

That's the same kind of thinking that has liberals scared of the big, scary black rifles.

So far, I have tested consistency, as well as anecdotal.

I understand the latter isn't anything to base a judgment on, but the former can be discussed intelligently, if you have something intelligent to say.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I am.

No one here believes you.

 

[joelinux]

No one here believes you.

*shrug* Will never meet any of you, so not trying to impress any of you. Couldn't care less.

 

[Jscb1b]

Fucking engineers don't even now to change spark plugs or which side of the car to put them on.

 

[joelinux]

Fucking engineers don't even now to change spark plugs or which side of the car to put them on.

Automotive engineers do.

 

[BadQ]

S&B for precision? SMFH...

I don't want any part of your current pissing match, but s&b 338lm 250grain match shoots sub 1/2 moa for me.

Please carry on with the aforementioned pissing match

Thanks

 

[TonyTheTiger]

FWIW @joelinux , I've thus far refrained from tagging into most of your dumpster fires. Its just when you try to get everyone to automatically agree with you by leveraging your engineering background its like a big giant batsignal in the sky that I can't ignore.

 

[Eostech]

Testing was done in commie units. Can't be trusted.

You must be a blast at parties.

"Hear its going to rain on Friday."

"Im an engineer, Yeah, my uncle's a weatherman."

"Yankees are looking good."

"Im an engineer, Yup, brother's a sportscaster."

"So, I just put new tires on my pick up."

"Im an engineer, My grandmother invented vulcanisation."

Oh by the way, Im an engineer.

FIFY

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Automotive engineers do.

Theoretically, but they've only seen them in drawings...

 

[joelinux]

I don't want any part of your current pissing match, but s&b 338lm 250grain match shoots sub 1/2 moa for me.

Please carry on with the aforementioned pissing match

Thanks

You are so wrong.

Because S&B is terrible.

Because @hlee said so.

And you should always take the word of someone online rather than any "testing" that might use different units than you are used to.

Because change is scary.

 

[joelinux]

FWIW @joelinux , I've thus far refrained from tagging into most of your dumpster fires. Its just when you try to get everyone to automatically agree with you by leveraging your engineering background its like a big giant batsignal in the sky that I can't ignore.

Theoretically, but they've only seen them in drawings...

You are thinking of Hard Science folks there.