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6.5 Creedmoor

New to the 6.5 CM and looking for a long range bullet.
Accelerator is a Tikka T3x CTR with a 24" factory barrel, 1/8"-twist.

Had groups of about 0.45 MOA with the Hornady 140gr. BTHP with a BC of .580 (G1).
Not to shabby for me and my factory rifle, but I hope to do a bit better further on.

Which (affordable) bullets have the BC and the precision to go onto my list?
 
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I have that exact same Tikka, except I have an AAC SRD-762-6 can on it, and am getting 2712fps with 140g ELD-M Hornady bullets and 4831sc powder. less than 1/2 MOA with 5fps ES.
 
.646 BC (G1) on that ELD Match, that´s very impressive!

Very highly accurate I guess, but very expensive too, unfortunately.

They make 44 bucks for 100 over here, where the BTHP make around 26 bucks.
I had a load with the BTHP which was .45 MOA.

But for really longrange, I think this BC is the way to go.
I will order some of the ELD and give ´em a BANG.
(y)

Congrats to you for having a can.
Those are absolute restricted for sport shooters in the free EUdSSR.
 
I started experimenting with RL16 today in both my 30-06, and 6.5 Creedmoor. Found a pretty stable velocity area from 42.2 to 42.8. Going to test further with the 140 eld-m and this powder in Hornady brass. Velocity was just under 3000 from a 23" barrel.
 
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One of my biggest hold outs is that 4350 is working so darn good. The powder is not holding me back any. I try to tell myself that I don't need to continue chasing but always find myself doing that when its time to look for powder. then there goes valuable training time spent on working up new loads and data. :mad:
 
@Ripdog28 If you have a good load with H4350, I personally would not bother. Don't get me wrong RL16 is a great powder in the creedmoor but I'm not going to stop using H4350 either.

I have noticed when doing my load work up with RL16, H4350 will tend to shoot tighter groups, at least inside 700 yards. With H4350 my ES is usually in the teens with 140's and 147's and accuracy nodes are wide and pronounced. With RL16 my ES tends to be lower, mid to high single digits, yet my accuracy nodes are not nearly as wide and defined. This frustrated me to no end when I first started playing with it.
 
@Ripdog28 If you have a good load with H4350, I personally would not bother. Don't get me wrong RL16 is a great powder in the creedmoor but I'm not going to stop using H4350 either.

I have noticed when doing my load work up with RL16, H4350 will tend to shoot tighter groups, at least inside 700 yards. With H4350 my ES is usually in the teens with 140's and 147's and accuracy nodes are wide and pronounced. With RL16 my ES tends to be lower, mid to high single digits, yet my accuracy nodes are not nearly as wide and defined. This frustrated me to no end when I first started playing with it.

I am not happy with my ES at all but damn 42.7 with 140 Hybrids shoots incredibly well. Last PRS match at 872 was easy even with way high ES.
May try the RL16. Or just need to work on my load more
 
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Proof research Stainless 26" barrel m24 contour
OAL 2.810
Average velocity 2741 ft/s
Eld-M 147 gr
Lapua brass
CCI 450 primers
41.8 gr H4350 (This is a hot load according to guides and I am not sure why, but I have had zero pressure signs so far using this. I am going to try my best to get some more testing in this weekend and dial in some new loads to see if I can get anything better out of my rifle.
 
Proof research Stainless 26" barrel m24 contour
OAL 2.810
Average velocity 2741 ft/s
Eld-M 147 gr
Lapua brass
CCI 450 primers
41.8 gr H4350 (This is a hot load according to guides and I am not sure why, but I have had zero pressure signs so far using this. I am going to try my best to get some more testing in this weekend and dial in some new loads to see if I can get anything better out of my rifle.
The guides are all low in regards to max load.
 
Yea. That is what I keep hearing/seeing as well. Seems strange to me and I wonder when a more "updated" guide will come out.
I don’t think it ever will. The cup pressure of the 6.5CM is high at those lower loads listed so technically that’s where it’s safe. I don’t think they’ll ever publish higher loads because of that. It may be “safe” in our terms here but not in the manufacturers eyes.
 
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Yea. That is what I keep hearing/seeing as well. Seems strange to me and I wonder when a more "updated" guide will come out.

You won't see an updated guide to address your concerns. Guides are a starting point for safe load development and are based on a specific set of criteria/equipment. There is no way for a guide to consider all the variables involved with reloading and or the equipment being used to fire the bullet. For instance there is not way for someone that offers a guide to know if the "Proof research Stainless 26" barrel m24 contour " being used is chambered to SAMMI specifications or something else much better, which brass will be used Lapua, Hornady, or other and is it sized correctly. Same with which Lot of H4350 will be used, or if all the lube was cleaned from cartridge case after sizing, is the bullet jammed, jumped or per the guide. Those and many more determine the amount of pressure you will see.

The updated guide is what we reloaders develop on our own based on our equipment and components used. Many including me when load developing, the first thing we do is start low and work up until we find pressure signs so we know at the beginning what the max load is and where the nodes are. I chased velocity for a while and still have to remind myself that accuracy is what I'm after. However I still try to get all the velocity I can depending on how quickly i want to burn the barrel up. One of my 6.5 Creed's is a full custom and shooting 130 vld's using 43.8gn of H4350 gives me 2920 to 2950 fps.,depending on temperature, which for this rifle is a safe load whereas my DTA 6.5 22" barrel using H4350 with 140 vld's showed pressure signs at 42.3gn and about 2650 fps but a change to RL16, 42.8 or 43.2gn gives me no pressure signs, good accuracy and 2772 and 2795 fps. I chose the 42.8 with 2772 fps as the most accurate for it's intended purpose of hunting out to 600 yards.

Orkan has a great write up on his website, Primal Rights, about reading pressure signs, it's a good read with valuable info.

Happy reloading!
 
You won't see an updated guide to address your concerns. Guides are a starting point for safe load development and are based on a specific set of criteria/equipment. There is no way for a guide to consider all the variables involved with reloading and or the equipment being used to fire the bullet. For instance there is not way for someone that offers a guide to know if the "Proof research Stainless 26" barrel m24 contour " being used is chambered to SAMMI specifications or something else much better, which brass will be used Lapua, Hornady, or other and is it sized correctly. Same with which Lot of H4350 will be used, or if all the lube was cleaned from cartridge case after sizing, is the bullet jammed, jumped or per the guide. Those and many more determine the amount of pressure you will see.

The updated guide is what we reloaders develop on our own based on our equipment and components used. Many including me when load developing, the first thing we do is start low and work up until we find pressure signs so we know at the beginning what the max load is and where the nodes are. I chased velocity for a while and still have to remind myself that accuracy is what I'm after. However I still try to get all the velocity I can depending on how quickly i want to burn the barrel up. One of my 6.5 Creed's is a full custom and shooting 130 vld's using 43.8gn of H4350 gives me 2920 to 2950 fps.,depending on temperature, which for this rifle is a safe load whereas my DTA 6.5 22" barrel using H4350 with 140 vld's showed pressure signs at 42.3gn and about 2650 fps but a change to RL16, 42.8 or 43.2gn gives me no pressure signs, good accuracy and 2772 and 2795 fps. I chose the 42.8 with 2772 fps as the most accurate for it's intended purpose of hunting out to 600 yards.

Orkan has a great write up on his website, Primal Rights, about reading pressure signs, it's a good read with valuable info.

Happy reloading!

This makes sense. Every rifle will be different I suppose. I have found that a lot of manuals show more "accurate" safe loads for different powders/calibers. This just seems to be my observation and I could be wrong.
 
What speed should one be seeing on average to get the best performance out of the round? I'm doing about 2738 fps (140gr ELD-M). Is this about right?

I´m just thinking what kind of performance you mean?

Good accuracy at 100yds, there is no speed limit as long as the groups are tight.

Max. energy for deer hunting or going out as far as possible, as max. speed you can get out of your rifle under safe conditions...
 
What speed should one be seeing on average to get the best performance out of the round? I'm doing about 2738 fps (140gr ELD-M). Is this about right?

Depends on barrel length. I’m pushing 140 to 2849fps from a 23.5” barrel.

Best performance is at the highest nod from a given barrel.
 
This makes sense. Every rifle will be different I suppose. I have found that a lot of manuals show more "accurate" safe loads for different powders/calibers. This just seems to be my observation and I could be wrong.

I think your observation is correct in that they try to be safely conservative. However I have a 300WM barrel that is super accurate but it is real hard on the brass and that's using the suggested starting load, so one size does not fit all. I have yet to figure that one out.
Start low, work up and read the signs that your rifle and brass are giving you, the manuals are nothing more than a suggested guide or starting point.
 
I think my issue lies with my short throat.

No, I don´t think so.
A short throat increases the starting pressure and will increase the velocity a bit.

You might try a powder which is a bit faster than the one you are using now.

If the powder is to slow for your barrel length, it might be, that not all powder is burned when the bullet leaves the barrel.
From that moment, the bullet is no longer accelerated, the gas streams elswhere.
That being said, with a powder which is not already burned when the bullet leaves the barrel, you are losing velocity.
The optimum would be, when the powder is just all burned directly before the bullet leaves the barrel.
We call it the "burn-end" over here.
Quickload shows that on the charge graphics, as a rating.

Another thing to take care of is the bullet / barrel diameter.
If the bullet is to small, or the barrel to wide, the bullet can´t caulk firmly and some pressure will get lost.
To work this out, you can slug your barrel with a lead bullet which is somewhat bigger in diameter than your caliber.
You must add oil to the slug and the barrel.
Starting slowly from the barrel mouth with a wooden or a rubber mallet.
Then use some wooden, brazen or bronze stick to, one shorter at about 5" and then a longer one, so that you can push your slug through the whole barrel.
There you have a footprint of your rifling, measure it.
Your bullets should be as wide ore even up to 1/1000 of an inch wider than the widest measured diameter on your slug.

But first you should try the powder thingy.
 
Tikkas are a bit slow, so I'm getting 2775 out of my 24" CTR with 43.2 grains of H-4350.

I would probably try RL16 next time around, but my rifle shoots stupidly accurate with 4350, so I don't feel bad about where I'm at. I've only shot out to 1,100, so the extra 60-ish fps that RL16 might have bought me doesn't really matter very much.
 
Tikkas are a bit slow, so I'm getting 2775 out of my 24" CTR with 43.2 grains of H-4350.

I would probably try RL16 next time around, but my rifle shoots stupidly accurate with 4350, so I don't feel bad about where I'm at. I've only shot out to 1,100, so the extra 60-ish fps that RL16 might have bought me doesn't really matter very much.

RL-16 worked out well for me. I only saw a 5 fps difference from 75 down to 40 degrees. An easy way to check is: put a few rounds in the fridge or freezer over night, and keep as cold as possible on the way to the range.
 
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Anyone
Tikkas are a bit slow, so I'm getting 2775 out of my 24" CTR with 43.2 grains of H-4350.

I would probably try RL16 next time around, but my rifle shoots stupidly accurate with 4350, so I don't feel bad about where I'm at. I've only shot out to 1,100, so the extra 60-ish fps that RL16 might have bought me doesn't really matter very much.

My 24" bergara puts me at 2775 with 41.7 grns of h4350

Those tikkas are crazy slow.. Is it a 1/8 twist?
 
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If the Tikkas are slow, it is probably because the barrels aren´t tight to the bullets.
Therefore slugging it might be useful.

But there are no .265" bullets out there, I guess.
:geek:
 
If the Tikkas are slow, it is probably because the barrels aren´t tight to the bullets.
Therefore slugging it might be useful.

But there are no .265" bullets out there, I guess.
:geek:

Could also be rough bores. Never played with one but I find it odd they are so much slower but I guess that is also the difference from a $3-400 barrel and a $800 barrel.
 
Normally they can´t be rough, because they are cold hammerforged.
So they should be as smooth as a baby´s bottom.

I only can tell, that they have an outstanding accuracy for a factory barrel.
Don´t know anything about their tightness though.
 
Has anyone worked up a load with Benchmark ?

I used it for 223 when I couldn't get Varget

Benchmark is likely too fast for 6.5 Creed. Benchmark is better compared to H335 but with much better temperature stability.

I would stick to 4350 if you're doing 6.5 Creed. It's just too damn good of a match.
 
New to the 6.5 CM and looking for a long range bullet.
Accelerator is a Tikka T3x CTR with a 24" factory barrel, 1/8"-twist.

Had groups of about 0.45 MOA with the Hornady 140gr. BTHP with a BC of .580 (G1).
Not to shabby for me and my factory rifle, but I hope to do a bit better further on.

Which (affordable) bullets have the BC and the precision to go onto my list?

I've never been able to get .580 bc out of the 140 bthp Hornady's ... I was dialed in at .55

You can buy the Norma 130's for the same price.. haven't tried those myself..

Anyone else have 100 Norma 130's they want to sell me?
 
AI-AT
26in Bartlein, Dave Tooley chambered barrel in 1-8 twist with Area 419 brake.
140 Bregrers
210M
Hornady brass
H-4350 at 42.6gr
AVG FPS 2808
ES of 8
shoots .5 moa or better
Shot 98 4x at our last 1000 yard match
 
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I havent shot any of them. Should be a full 100. But Midway USA repackaged them in a blue plastic box due to damage supposedly. I've been too busy and only had time to run ELDX and ELDMs in the 6.5s
 
A co-worker of mine gave me a pound of Varget since he wasn't using Varget anymore. I looked at Hodgdon's site and they recommend 36.0-40.2gn of Varget with 120gr AMAX. Well I'm going to try it with 120gr ELD-M I have. I know their numbers are usually conservative and on the max end they are showing 2891 FPS. I haven't messed with the 120gr yet as I'm waiting on some H4350 to show up but I want to try some of the Varget in the mean time. I'm going to load according to their specs right now and not going to mess with seating depth. They are saying 2.67" COAL (2.14" BTO).
Is the sweet spot for 120gr over 2900 fps or is that still considered "slow" for the 120gr?
 
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