I've been running the 153.5's with 41.2 gr. R23 at 2590. You can't really get much more powder in the case. Most seem to use H4350 with a similar charge weight for velocities near 2700.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
FYI. I shot two boxes of federal GMM 130 hybrids today breaking in my barrel on a new Tikka T3x CTR 24”. I had not read to much good about that ammo, but they shot great for me. Consistent 1/2 MOA or less three shot groups, an SD of 13 and an average of 2875 fps over twelve shots. Shot very well and consistent out to 870 yrds. Anyone use the federal srp brass for reloading?
Sorry y’all, so my barrel is a 26” MTU profile w a 7.5. tw. I’m loading w either 6.5 StayBall, h4350 or RL16.
So far I’ve loaded up a few test rounds w the 150s that I haven’t had a chance to test yet due to life. But I worked them up from 41.9 to 43.1 w RL16. Hopefully I can get out to the range this week and fire them off… that said the 43.1 is somewhat compressed so we’ll see if I get to them wo pressure signs…..
Good! Your twist rate is fine for the 150 SMK, and i would expect them to shoot well.
Would recommend H4350 and RL-16, which previously gave me adequate speed and superb accuracy. Staball is likely fine for a plinking round, especially if you want to use a powder measure (well away from max pressure), but not ideal for long range work.
Btw: Recently developed a load for a buddy’s Tikka T3 using 6.5 Staball, and Hornady 140 BTHP, loaded on a milligram lab scale to one kernel of accuracy, using fully prepped weight sorted Nosler brass, aiming for the middle of a wide flat spot (node) at 2660 fps, and SD was very poor at 22.5 fps, with an ES of 64 fps. Hornady 147 ELDM Match factory ammo got an SD of 12-14 fps. Typically my handloads get 7-8 fps for SD.
IMHO: That large an ES makes the load unusable beyond 300 yards if you intend to hit 3” plates. Barrel temperature seems to drive these large speed changes.
What ES and SD results are you guys getting with Staball?
Last edited:
Yeah, StaBall hasn't given me great SD's. But, it's available. H4350 is the best, but tough to find. Both StaBall and RL-16 seem temp sensitive to me. H4350 is as consistent as possible.
What was your SD?
The rifle is quite new, perhaps 120-150 rounds, so it is possible that the barrel is going through the last of its speedup process, so maybe i was just unlucky.
Last edited:
My latest loads with new Lapua SRP brass and 140 ELD-M's have given me my best SD's with StaBall, basically mid teems, like 16 ish. Factory Hornady 140 ELD-M match has an SD of about 7 for me.
Hmm, I don't see data for the 140 ELD-M's, but max charge would appear to be about 41.7 - 42.0 ish based on other 140's and the 143 ELD-X. If I can get it I'll try it out.
Yeah I’ve heard that about Staball. I ended up getting 5# of the stuff when I couldn’t find anything else. I’ve since gotten 10# of h4350 so I’m set but I do want to use up my StaBall. The 150s I’m loading are w RL16 so we’ll see how it shoots.
Yeah, shoot what you can find!
My buddy had the same problem, it was all that was available at the time, and it does ‘work’ as a medium range plinking load.
If you record zero offset in your ballistic calculator, you can take different ammo to the range and shoot the Staball load out to 300, then switch to your H4350 competition load and the calculated vertical and horizontal corrections will be very close.
Yeah I mean I have plenty of h4350 now so I just may have a lot of Staball sitting around for awhile
Well, I have my StaBall complaints for sure, but it does shoot sub moa at 1,000 for me, and sub 0.5 moa at 100 when I do my part.
I've had good luck with StaBall. Using 140 ELDms, I had single digit SDs in multiple places in a ladder test. I settled at 42.2 grains, with SD of 8.6 and velocity of 2775.
I also had single SDs at 43.4 and 44 grains, running 2875 and 2900 fps respectively. I settled on the 42.2 load cause the speed is fast enough and its consistent. It's easily a sub 1/2 minute load.
Gun is a 26" Proof research barrel.
I also had single SDs at 43.4 and 44 grains, running 2875 and 2900 fps respectively. I settled on the 42.2 load cause the speed is fast enough and its consistent. It's easily a sub 1/2 minute load.
Gun is a 26" Proof research barrel.
Good to know! I had similar results as far the placement of the nodes but not w those SDs. Maybe I’ll try for the higher node and see what I can get.
Noted thx. Staball is one of the few powders that is almost always available online, and i really want it to shoot small.
I know Tikka barrels are often slow. This 24” barrel gives 2660 fps using Hornady 140 Match ammo, almost 60 fps slower than my other rifles. Barrel might be midway in its speedup process. Will put another 100 factory rounds through the barrel, see if the barrel speeds up, and then test Staball again.
During load development, i had a nice wide 0.7 grain flat spot in the speed graph, and several powder charged with ES below 18 fps, but this did not repeat when i tested a box of 50. Maybe hot barrel was the cause, but not entirely sure. Btw i’m not greedy: Would be happy with an SD below 13 fps.
Thanks for the feedback.
Last edited:
Hi,
I've been working load to my Tikka T3x action, Shilen selected match barrel 26".
VV N555 (others are hard to find in Europe)
ELD-M 147gr
210M
Sako brass, full sizing, bumping shoulder 0,002"
0,020" jump.
Caldwell chrono.
So i have tuner, but not sure what to select to tune, here are numbers:
3 shot groups, i think that 42,1 and 42,2 are best to next stage, tuner test based on group shape. But other hand data show low sd's 42,4 - 42,6. But groups are really wide. Except 42,4
Distance was 150m.
What you guys think?
I've been working load to my Tikka T3x action, Shilen selected match barrel 26".
VV N555 (others are hard to find in Europe)
ELD-M 147gr
210M
Sako brass, full sizing, bumping shoulder 0,002"
0,020" jump.
Caldwell chrono.
So i have tuner, but not sure what to select to tune, here are numbers:
| CW | AVG | SD | ES | Group (MOA) |
| 42,0 | 2761 | 18 | 36 | 0,55 |
| 42,1 | 2808 | 22 | 43 | 0,54 |
| 42,2 | 2796 | 18 | 36 | 0,61 |
| 42,3 | 2777 | 19 | 36 | 1,07 |
| 42,4 | 2814 | 5 | 10 | 0,26 |
| 42,5 | 2771 | 2 | 3 | 1,01 |
| 42,6 | 2808 | 7 | 13 | 1,11 |
3 shot groups, i think that 42,1 and 42,2 are best to next stage, tuner test based on group shape. But other hand data show low sd's 42,4 - 42,6. But groups are really wide. Except 42,4
Distance was 150m.
What you guys think?
Attachments
SIG CROSS 6.5 Creedmoor w/PVA ultralight MB
New Alpha brass
Fed 210M
Hodgdon H4350
PVA Cayuga 121gr
2.850 COAL
Charged on AnD fx120i auto throw
One shot fired each for velocity reference
42.0- 2703
42.3-skipped because initial velocity to low
42.6-2781
42.9-2805
43.2-2814
43.5-2843
43.8-2864
44.2-FTR
44.5-2889 (flat primer, pressure signs)
I’m going to try the 42.9/43.1/43.3 for load development today. I was hoping to be over 2800fps and that looks safe to me
Update:
Either I don’t like shot #4 or this barrel doesn’t like to shoot hot.
150yd 4 shot groups. Squares are 1”
Patriot valley arms monolithic 6.5cm
New Alpha brass
Fed 210M
Hodgdon H4350
PVA Cayuga 121gr
2.850 COAL
Charged on AnD fx120i auto throw
One shot fired each for velocity reference
42.0- 2703
42.3-skipped because initial velocity to low
42.6-2781
42.9-2805
43.2-2814
43.5-2843
43.8-2864
44.2-FTR
44.5-2889 (flat primer, pressure signs)
I’m going to try the 42.9/43.1/43.3 for load development today. I was hoping to be over 2800fps and that looks safe to me
Update:
Either I don’t like shot #4 or this barrel doesn’t like to shoot hot.
150yd 4 shot groups. Squares are 1”
Patriot valley arms monolithic 6.5cm
Last edited:
So I’m a convert to the small rifle primer gang….
42.5 H4350
140gr Berger Elite Hunter
Lapua brass
CCI small rifle magnum primers
The best 10 shot group I’ve ever shot.
Been shooting LRP’s with the 6.5CM for the past 6 years or so. Considering switch my Lapua to SRP’s. What were your chrono numbers like before with LRP’s?
Ok... so here is a dumb question. Since I am switching over from one brass to another and I am still fairly new to this game... I want to recalibrate my headspace and resizing die.
Question is: I shot the 10 rounds as seen above. I have measured all of their dimensions w a Hornady headspace gauge.
So now I have 10 measurements.
N = 10
AVG / MEAN: 1.5582
STD: 0.0014944
MIN: 1.556
MAX: 1.5605
So I want to set my shoulder bump to 20 thou.... but which measurement do I use? The mean, the max, the min?
Thanks Y'all!
Question is: I shot the 10 rounds as seen above. I have measured all of their dimensions w a Hornady headspace gauge.
So now I have 10 measurements.
N = 10
AVG / MEAN: 1.5582
STD: 0.0014944
MIN: 1.556
MAX: 1.5605
So I want to set my shoulder bump to 20 thou.... but which measurement do I use? The mean, the max, the min?
Thanks Y'all!
I wouldn't think you'd need to recalibrate the sizing die since it's setting max external dimensions and that's not changing. Anybody disagree? I'm still a bit new too.
Are you using something other that a standard FL sizing die ?
Is the 2nd brand of brass new, OR ?
WHAT make of firearm are you using ?
ALL these might give us more info to be able yo help you
I just came across this and may have missed something 25 pages back, but I think you are looking at this incorrectly. I f you are switching brass mfg's, I would pay way more attention to your chrono data than worrying about headspace. The die will do it's job on the outside of the case, they should all be the same. What you can't control is the inside of the case, they are all not the same. I have one specific load, with a specific bullet and powder.( IMR 4064 and Nosler CC, or Midsouth MM, which is the same bullet) In a Remington, S&B, or Federal case, with 37.1gr, I get 2700fps, or very close to it. That is my 500 and in load. The bullets have a fairly low BC(.529) but I got them for .21 a piece and they are money to 500. The same charge and bullet in a Hornaday case is quite a bit slower. I save the Hornaday for HPBT match and ELD bullets, with H 4350. That load is 41.5gr.
I f you do the math, I'm saving 4.5gr per load, with a cheaper bullet all the way to 500!!!
I couldn't ever get super low SD with staball in 6.5 either but it wasn't that bad either. I did get my 6cm to use staball and have wicked low SD and ES with 20 shots also. 6cm I use lapua SRP brass and 6.5cm is use Starline brass
How are you measuring this? Also, I assume you mean .002" bump, not 20 thou
Another method i use is to take a case and size it to 1.558 and make sure your bolt has zero resistance. (Make sure to remove firing pin). Then add a layer of scotch tape to the back of the case and see if you get resistance. That tape is .002" . If you do get resistance with tape then you are good, if not, keep adding a layer and then size to 2 or 3 though less than your total.
If you have sine 2x fired brass then you can also try sizing to .002 or .003 less than it measures and check to make sure you don't have resistance.
That is good info!! When I run out of H4350 I have 10# of Staball 6.5 to start another journey, I will definitely revisit this thread!
I'd definitely go back to staball in 6.5cm if I needed to, such as say .... I ran out of 4350. It works pretty well and temp sensitivity was very low. Good speed and sd/es wasn't bad, just not quite where I wanted and could get with 4350.
I was at 43.5gr of staball with an MV of 2828, running a Berger 130 OTM
Anyone running light weight bullets 100-107 in the 6.5C? I have been thinking about using these in 600 yd tactical benchrest competition to compete with the 6mm guns. They seem to be running the 105's mostly.
So I was not decapping before I was taking my measurements. Now they are all within 0.001”. So I’m all good now. Thanks.
Looking for Hornady H4350 load data for the 130Gr A-Tip. Standard 42.x??
Shooting a 18” barrel so I know it’s going to be running slow
Shooting a 18” barrel so I know it’s going to be running slow
Last edited:
I shoot a 130 Berger OTM and use H4350 42.65gr - MV 2879- that's a bolt gun
I would start at 42 and go up from there depending on how fast you want to run it and of course what's safe in your gun.
Last edited:
The Hornady app says 42.8 is the max for H4350. So, yeah, start at 42.0. COAL was 2.80.
The Hodgdon site also says the max with H4350 and a 140gr bullet is 40.0gr. I load 41.5 and many here are well over 42.5, just watch pressure. I believe load data has changed in the last 20 years, probably because of liability!
My go to load is 42.5 H4350 w 140 ELDMs and 140 Berger Hybrids….. Lapua brass, never had any issues and have loaded to much hotter than that….. (disclaimer: I ladder tested to that and never take the internet for gospel, esp strangers on the internet
Well you seem to have a flat spot/speed node that is 0.5 gn wide, which is good for the smaller calibers. Pick the powder charge with the smallest SD (ignore ES, unreliable statistic). So i would pick 42.5 as well, assuming it repeats.
But do go shoot 10 more rounds to make sure it was not blind luck.
If need be, try 42.4 gn next. Then dial the tumer to shrink the group even more. You are on the right track.
Yeah, every crony has its own measurements error (SD), and even if 10 rounds could be fired at the exact same speed, it will show a non-zero SD due to measurement noise. For that cheap Made-in-China Caldwell device, the inherent inaccuracy of the instrument is likely well over 10 fps. Your load might have an SD of 5, but the instrument errors can skew the reading to 20. Sadly the data you have so far is mostly meaningless, recommend you get a good crony first.
I use a LabRadar and a MagnetoSpeed and they correlate very well. Almost identical SD’s, speed offset is small at around 9 fps. Presume the BulletSeeker would be of similar quality. I prefer the radar based devices as they are non-contact measurement, so no added weight that will alter your barrel harmonics and POI.
If you are on a budget, perhaps get the cheapest MagnetoSpeed, but remember to remove it before you start seating depth optimization, or adjusting the barrel tuner. It will also move your point of impact, but it is pretty good for load develipment (finding a speed flat spot/node) and 1/3 of the price of a LabRadar, and 1/4 of the BulletSeeker price.
Last edited:
I managed to tune 42.5 gr groups to 0,4 MOA and for now i'm happy with it.
When bullet seeker arrives, then hopefully see good results. I decided go with bullet seeker because its size and no need to attach it to barrel.
Is the LabRadar's speed generally slower than the MagnetoSpeed?
Since the MagnetoSpeed is directly at the muzzle and the LabRadar is calculating the speed 15-20 yards down range.
Setup: tikka action, chambered in 6.5 CM, PVA Osprey barrel 26” w a 1:7.5 tw.
Brass / Primers: Lapua small primer pocket and CCI 450 small mag primers.
Ok so I tried both H4350 and RL-16 and ran initial ladder tests to find any nodes. I typically run 3 shots per load and start about in the middle of rec load spec and work up and slightly past max from the book. I also found some data online as well that I used as a benchmark.
Note: my normal load is the 140 Berger EH or LR depending on what I can get w same brass and primers as above. I use H4350 and hover around 42.5 Gr. I see speeds just around 2800 fts with this load w very tight SDs and low ESs. Recently shot a 10 string group at .44 MOA w an SD of 6. Not bad for 6.5 CM…. At least I think so
Anyways…. Here are the initial results. H4350 from the loads I tested seemed slower than what I would have liked but did have some “soso” nodes. I need need to test it a little hotter though.
RL-16 however from my run seemed very positive. A nice nice node around the 42.5 mark w speeds around 2800 and low SDs (for 3 shots which isnt very informational statistically, I know!) Temp outside for these tests was around mid 70s.
I went back however earlier in the am to validate and RL16, 3 shot groups .1 grain below, same and above. And got more distribution than I would have liked… decent groups though as shown in the pic…. Anyway…
Need to test hotter h4350, and figure out what hell is up w the RL16 apparent temp issue….
To be continued!
No the difference would be random and vary from device to device. LabRadar corrects the actual measured speed once it picks up the bullet for what it should be at the muzzle, based on the rate at which speed is dropping with distance, all done via clever curve fitting.
Both devices are adequately accurate for reloading purposes. Each have their own pros and cons, but both work. But a big price difference.
You will have to spend $100K plus on a 3000 yard radar setup like the ones used by Applied Ballistics and Hornady to know the exact offset of your device - so not doable. Best we can do is compare with another device your buddy brought to the range. Also, speed and BC “truing” (a standard feature in most ballistic calculators) can be used to deal with minor crony errors.
Last edited:
