6.5 Creedmoor

What is your barrel lenghth?
19.25". Forgot to add that on this post.

The difference between 2600fps and 2680 fps in the Hornady app is 600 vs 650 yards for dropping below 1800 fps at 800'. Probably more at hunting elevations, but both of those distances are already farther than I plan to shoot an animal anyways so no big deal. I'll definitely be better served by shooting more and practicing different positions, etc. vs gaining another 25 fps or something.
 
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Ok so I am just getting ready to start into the rifle reloading gig, finally! Im on a budget here so I just ordered an RSBS rock chucker supreme kit from Brownells that will be here soon $309 on sale, Got 1000 CCI LR primers a while (2021) back for $49 and got a box of 100 discontinued 100gr Amax $23, a box of 100 140eldm, and a box of 100 147eldm. Got 2 jugs of H4350 unicorn dust, last week. And best of all, I lucked out and found 3 boxes of 100 135rg Atip match bullets at a store that had them for $59.99 a box, I let the gal at the gun counter know everyone else is selling them for 82-95$ a box, and that they had a great price. She looked them up they were indeed priced wrong and she, looked at me, winked and said, "Well Ya better go get the other 2 boxes as well and get a SCORE!" She was pretty nice about the dealio. (They were indeed mispriced, plus I could get $10% off store wide a day sale, plus an additional $10 bonus bux for every $50 spent so they ended up being about $43 a box.) That was a no brainer! So I will soon be going down the reloading rabbit hole of 6.5 load development for a couple rifles, Bergara B14 HMR, and a Savage 110 that I just put a Magpul Hunter stock on it yesterday..HUGE Improvement. Ya-Ya I know, cheaper production rifles, but hell man they are decent shooters, I got 2 girls, and wife, and 2 big dogs, and 2 cats to feed. So I gotta keep things within reason. LOL
 
Pushing velocities

My supply of the favored 130 grain Bergers is running very low and our son and I are attending a clinic in a few weeks where 200 or more rounds will be needed (and I have about 270 bullets left). Now, I have preached that leaning hard on the reloads to get those last few FPS is never necessary and is hard on both the rifle and the wallet. Here’s why…

I have a decent supply of another brand of 130 grain bullets that have giving good performance at short ranges. So, I plan on shooting them for fun, saving my meager amounts of the Bergers for shooting sessions (matches and clinics) when it really matters. I trust the Berger’s long range performance and have thoroughly doped their downrange accuracy and sight settings. I had previously worked up a load for that other brand of bullet, Norma Golden Target, since I like them, they are no longer in production, story of my life).

Yesterday, I took this load out to check their sight settings. This is the group. Yes I realize that’s only three shots, but my supply of SRP brass is running low due age attrition and as said, bullets are running low as well.

Now, why should a fellow or lady shoot lighter loads? This is shot number 2278, 2279 and 2280 though this barrel. Group is .508 center to center. Pretty impressive for a 74 year old retired shooter, who’s money does not grow on trees.

Oh, this is a 300 Yard Group

20744939-7174-4049-917F-A34B7C9229EC.jpeg
 
Those speeds are right at what my RPR with a 24 inch barrel gets with the ELD-X’s. My experience, is that the last few feet of velocity is rarely needed. However, not leaning too hard on the 6.5 leads to very long barrel life. I know, barrels are like tires, use them up and get a new one, but barrels are likes tires, they are not cheap. (Just dropped $250.00 on three bicycle tries and two tubes, so don’t tell me tires are cheap)

Most deer and even larger game and steel silhouettes, have a really hard time telling the difference between 2650FPS and 2575FPS, the windage down range is minuscule. However, your rifle and your wallet sure can. Think about it. Have an MPA, with 2250 rounds down the barrel, shooting 130’s with 44 grains of Superformance. Still putting the shots into sub half inch groups and hitting targets out to 1100 yards (Both in front of witnesses)
especially if they are Maxxis Mt bike tires!
 
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Please give me a quick rundown on using Lapua Small Rifle Primer (Small Flash Hole) brass.

I know to follow standard load work-up procedures when changing a component; with that said, do I need to use magnum primers with this brass? Any concerns with environmental conditions (cold etc.) when using this brass with standard small rifle primers?

Components commonly used are 130/136 class bullets, Federal Gold Medal Primers (Small or Large), and H4350 or StaBall 6.5.
 
Please give me a quick rundown on using Lapua Small Rifle Primer (Small Flash Hole) brass.

I know to follow standard load work-up procedures when changing a component; with that said, do I need to use magnum primers with this brass? Any concerns with environmental conditions (cold etc.) when using this brass with standard small rifle primers?

Components commonly used are 130/136 class bullets, Federal Gold Medal Primers (Small or Large), and H4350 or StaBall 6.5.
I’ve been using BR-4’s with a ball powder In both Starline and Lapua brass. Can’t say I am entirely satisfied. I get a misfire about once every 200 rounds. Sometimes a bit more often. Got one hangfire, and that was interesting. Kind a like shooting a flintlock. Guess my follow through was good because I hit the 400 yard target.

Why continue? Accuracy with that rifle / powder / primer / bullet combination (130 Berger VLD) has been above exceptional all factors considered.

I suppose, I need to move on to CCI 450’s and probably will when this barrel finally wears out, but at almost 2300 rounds, it is still shooting like a champ.

So, to answer your question, yes, I probably would choose the magnum level primer, especially with StaBall. (I am using Superformance)
 
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@Wiillk - Thank You. Does anyone have any other observations or recommendations? Would I be fine with H4350 and the small flash hole brass and standard small rifle primers?
I've been shooting Starline brass, CCI 400 srp, H4350, 140 gr bullets for the last 5 years with no issue. 5,000+ rounds. The Lapua brass does have a smaller flash hole but haven't heard of issues being caused by that.
 
I've been shooting Starline brass, CCI 400 srp, H4350, 140 gr bullets for the last 5 years with no issue. 5,000+ rounds. The Lapua brass does have a smaller flash hole but haven't heard of issues being caused by that.
Yep, I am one of the very few, maybe the only fellow on the planet that does not use H4350. I suppose it is because I live in a fairly temperate climate, am too old to want to shoot in really nasty weather, and have really great results with Superformance. H4350 in my rifles has not demonstrated the accuracy or performance. As always, ball powder is more difficult to ignite and I am strongly suspicious that is the cause of the occasional misfire.
 
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@Wiillk - Thank You. Does anyone have any other observations or recommendations? Would I be fine with H4350 and the small flash hole brass and standard small rifle primers?
There is no reason to use the Magnum primers. I shoot H4350 and Berger 140's. The Magnum primers will give you slightly higher velocity but are not as consistent as the SRP.
 
There is no reason to use the Magnum primers. I shoot H4350 and Berger 140's. The Magnum primers will give you slightly higher velocity but are not as consistent as the SRP.
Problem is you are talking about sticks and we are talking about balls. Ball powder is notoriously difficult to ignite, especially in cold weather. I agree, stick powders such as H4350 do not need magnum primers and often have better SD’s with standard primers. But again, with a ball primer, might work better under some if not all conditions with a magnum primer.
 
Problem is you are talking about sticks and we are talking about balls. Ball powder is notoriously difficult to ignite, especially in cold weather. I agree, stick powders such as H4350 do not need magnum primers and often have better SD’s with standard primers. But again, with a ball primer, might work better under some if not all conditions with a magnum primer.
Tbere is no problem, I answered his question about H4350.
 
My Tikka 6.5 CM just loves the Hornady Precision Hunter 143gn ammo .
What is my best way to try and duplicate this factory load apart from the obvious of OAL , same projectile / brass .
Any advice on primers and powder would be greatly appreciated

Ken
 
My Tikka 6.5 CM just loves the Hornady Precision Hunter 143gn ammo .
What is my best way to try and duplicate this factory load apart from the obvious of OAL , same projectile / brass .
Any advice on primers and powder would be greatly appreciated

Ken
You could pull a couple and check grain weight, could give you an idea. My guess would be the usual RL16 H4350 IMR4350 RL17 RL26 HUNTER
something is those ranges. If you have a chrono that would help also.
 
My Tikka 6.5 CM just loves the Hornady Precision Hunter 143gn ammo .
What is my best way to try and duplicate this factory load apart from the obvious of OAL , same projectile / brass .
Any advice on primers and powder would be greatly appreciated

Ken
In the past , factory produced ammo used a special blend that had made for their specific needs. Today ?? Hornady , may just order a large amount of XYZ powder that will fit their needs to load several different rounds.
As Kevin750 suggests , if you can't ID the powder used , knowing how fast their 143 gn bullet is going will give you a base line to work toward
 
My Tikka 6.5 CM just loves the Hornady Precision Hunter 143gn ammo .
What is my best way to try and duplicate this factory load apart from the obvious of OAL , same projectile / brass .
Any advice on primers and powder would be greatly appreciated

Ken
Using Hornady brass, a CCI 200 Primer, 44 grains of Superformance and the 143 ELD-X in my RPR yields velocity virtually identical to factory 143 ELD-X Velocity. (On the day we chronographed, it was 1 foot per second slower than factory)
 
I load 43g of H4350 behind the 143eldx. I can’t comment on comparing to factory as I’ve never shot any only reloaded. I get 2,670 fps out of an 18” krieger with ultra 7 on the end. Super accurate and shoots mild. Just another reference for you.
 
How did it group compared to the factory 143 ELD X ?
Its been 6 years ago since I purchased that rifle, so I really don’t remember the specifics of the group size. And, I haven’t shot a factory load since the first month or so that I made the purchase. I can say the reloads shoot quite nice with this load. The 144 Bergers shoot a tighter group but the differences are within 5 hundredths to 1 tenth. Pretty tight for a hunting bullet. I don’t remember anything really really significant so the factory rounds must have grouped decently.
 
Whatever that 4th one down is good! What is the charge weight range? Ive got a bunch of 135 atips to play with here soon.

42.4gr, or around 2850fps. But be careful, group above that is the same exact charge. Easily explained by shooter, changing environmentals, etc., but just goes to show that there will always be some variance towards the average.

The aggregate group size is plenty good though, and I’m most interested in consistent POI. Even if a group “opens up” to .5, and that’s the “worst” extreme, that’s still more than consistent enough for me to call it good.
 
42.4gr, or around 2850fps. But be careful, group above that is the same exact charge. Easily explained by shooter, changing environmentals, etc., but just goes to show that there will always be some variance towards the average.

The aggregate group size is plenty good though, and I’m most interested in consistent POI. Even if a group “opens up” to .5, and that’s the “worst” extreme, that’s still more than consistent enough for me to call it good.
Thanks. Looks like 42.3 might be the OCW node possibly? Interesting they kinda went cloverleaf then horizontal spread, then back to cloverleaf.
 
42.3 - 42.5 were all within in 18fps of each other with same POI/group size. That’s why I went right in the middle of it.

Could probably be improved slightly but they all produced pretty much identical groups and spreads. That’s more than enough for what I’m after and it gives me a little buffer on either side.
 
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Iv been reloading for my bergara ridge 22" barrel for a while and I'm noticing more velocity than the general "standard" but haven't seen any pressure signs my question is roll with it or go back down? One load is 140eldm 42.7gr h4350 lapua srp cci450 @2800fps
Other load is 130vldh 43.7gr h4350 lapua srp cci450 @2890fps. (Shot a very consistent load at 44.4 @2932 but went down from that)
Like I said haven't seen any pressure sign tested in 80* weather but seems pretty fast, what are your thoughts?
 
Iv been reloading for my bergara ridge 22" barrel for a while and I'm noticing more velocity than the general "standard" but haven't seen any pressure signs my question is roll with it or go back down? One load is 140eldm 42.7gr h4350 lapua srp cci450 @2800fps
Other load is 130vldh 43.7gr h4350 lapua srp cci450 @2890fps. (Shot a very consistent load at 44.4 @2932 but went down from that)
Like I said haven't seen any pressure sign tested in 80* weather but seems pretty fast, what are your thoughts?
It sounds like a lot of powder but I ran it through Gordons Reloading Tool and it appears the pressure is below max and your velocity is right where the tool says you should be. You are working pretty close to max pressure so be careful with it.
 
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By chance what does it say max is if you don't mind saying?
For the 140 gr ELD-M your maximum pressure is 62,792 psi at 80 degrees. Pmax for the 6.5 Creedmoor is 63,091 psi. At 90 degrees you are 63,464 psi so you are already over pressure.

Keep in mind case volume, seating depth and temperature will all affect these pressure values.
 
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Iv been reloading for my bergara ridge 22" barrel for a while and I'm noticing more velocity than the general "standard" but haven't seen any pressure signs my question is roll with it or go back down? One load is 140eldm 42.7gr h4350 lapua srp cci450 @2800fps
Other load is 130vldh 43.7gr h4350 lapua srp cci450 @2890fps. (Shot a very consistent load at 44.4 @2932 but went down from that)
Like I said haven't seen any pressure sign tested in 80* weather but seems pretty fast, what are your thoughts?
These loads sound excessive. Is there a reason you are trying to run on the max side? I would back them down and you’ll probably see better accuracy, your ballistic app will take care of the speed difference, your brass will be happier, your recoil less and depending on variables you won’t have to worry about your rifle blowing up in your face.
 
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These loads sound excessive. Is there a reason you are trying to run on the max side? I would back them down and you’ll probably see better accuracy, your ballistic app will take care of the speed difference, your brass will be happier, your recoil less and depending on variables you won’t have to worry about your rifle blowing up in your face.
Just like testing thats all, I think I am going to go ahead and back down around 2700-2750 for the 140s. Any idea what 130s should generally be at?
 
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I had a good load of 43g h4350 with 130 eldm in a 26” barrel doing 2,890. It was however to hot if any wierd environmental conditions arose. I settled on 42.2 and it’s good across the board.
 
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That’s why your 130 load stood out to me as excessive. Your more powder and same speed with 4” less barrel where mine was almost at the limit or kinda was doing the same speed with 4” more barrel. Obviously testing like you said but just off the cuff you seem way hot.
 
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That’s why your 130 load stood out to me as excessive. Your more powder and same speed with 4” less barrel where mine was almost at the limit or kinda was doing the same speed with 4” more barrel. Obviously testing like you said but just off the cuff you seem way hot.
I would think and I know it's hotter but still never seen any pressure signs out of it and like you're saying I should be 75-100 fps slower then your 26 theoretically, ill probably back off to 42 or 42.5 grains and do some testing and run with that, thanks for the help
 
I don’t think you always see what are called the “pressure signs” even though we are definitely over pressure. I think this community including myself are very guilty of pushing the limits. More then likely when we see primer issues or heavy bolt lift we have crept into the “way” over pressure and were already there prior to the “signs”. Just my opinion and like I said guilty myself at times.
 
Iv been reloading for my bergara ridge 22" barrel for a while and I'm noticing more velocity than the general "standard" but haven't seen any pressure signs my question is roll with it or go back down? One load is 140eldm 42.7gr h4350 lapua srp cci450 @2800fps
Other load is 130vldh 43.7gr h4350 lapua srp cci450 @2890fps. (Shot a very consistent load at 44.4 @2932 but went down from that)
Like I said haven't seen any pressure sign tested in 80* weather but seems pretty fast, what are your thoughts?

I'm not sure on the 130's. But your 140gr load sounds about right. One of my 24" creeds is at 2830fps at 42gr the other is at 2827fps at 41.8gr both h4350.
 
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Ugh searching through the thread is a pain, we need tags (maybe I'll index it one day)

Anywhoo

I've got some 130 ELD-Ms burning a hole in my pocket and some 4451 To use up. The Hornady book has both 140 and 130 at 2700 FPS (Hodgdon also has 130s Noslers as 2700 fps.). TBH it seems very very conservative. Is there a nice conservative place to start with 4451 and the 130s? was looking to get some more speed over the 140s and rather than fight the pressure monster, trying the lighter bullet.

Also a sanity check: 41.5 H4350 should be fine in virgin starline brass or should I back off a little. Had no issues in 1X fired brass but my initial brass has alas, fallen prey to my shitty reloading/attrition/multiple use to the point where that group is gonna be sighters.
 
Ugh searching through the thread is a pain, we need tags (maybe I'll index it one day)

Anywhoo

I've got some 130 ELD-Ms burning a hole in my pocket and some 4451 To use up. The Hornady book has both 140 and 130 at 2700 FPS (Hodgdon also has 130s Noslers as 2700 fps.). TBH it seems very very conservative. Is there a nice conservative place to start with 4451 and the 130s? was looking to get some more speed over the 140s and rather than fight the pressure monster, trying the lighter bullet.

Also a sanity check: 41.5 H4350 should be fine in virgin starline brass or should I back off a little. Had no issues in 1X fired brass but my initial brass has alas, fallen prey to my shitty reloading/attrition/multiple use to the point where that group is gonna be sighters.
I would back that H4350 Starline combo back a little bit and bring it back up. It "should" be fine but it depends on how fast you want to run.
 
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Ugh searching through the thread is a pain, we need tags (maybe I'll index it one day)

Anywhoo

I've got some 130 ELD-Ms burning a hole in my pocket and some 4451 To use up. The Hornady book has both 140 and 130 at 2700 FPS (Hodgdon also has 130s Noslers as 2700 fps.). TBH it seems very very conservative. Is there a nice conservative place to start with 4451 and the 130s? was looking to get some more speed over the 140s and rather than fight the pressure monster, trying the lighter bullet.

Also a sanity check: 41.5 H4350 should be fine in virgin starline brass or should I back off a little. Had no issues in 1X fired brass but my initial brass has alas, fallen prey to my shitty reloading/attrition/multiple use to the point where that group is gonna be sighters.
Berger lists 41.7 grains of 4451 for their MAX with their 130 at 2822.
 
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I don’t think you always see what are called the “pressure signs” even though we are definitely over pressure. I think this community including myself are very guilty of pushing the limits. More then likely when we see primer issues or heavy bolt lift we have crept into the “way” over pressure and were already there prior to the “signs”. Just my opinion and like I said guilty myself at times.
I agree. One can be over pressure and not see obvious signs. After a few reloadings a case may suddenly fail. I believe this has happened to me twice. I have since taken steps to reduce the likelihood of this happening by annealing and coating bullets with hBn, as well as keeping my charges below max. I seek a node somewhere around max charge -12 to 25% or so. Safety is job One.
 
Just bought my first 6.5 creedmoor. Never loaded for anything this little before. What seems to be the best overall powder for 140 to 150 grain bullets? I was thinking 6.5 staball as long as it's truly temp stable