Funny . . . your response sounded pretty sarcastic smart guy.
This should stop right here before your keyboard gets the
better of you.
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6.5 Grendel
- Thread starter padom
- Start date
This should stop right here before your keyboard gets the
better of you.
Sort of, but it's not spelled out in the context of the reloading world. I can understand how someone new might not know what we're talking about in reference to a "node". And he even asked that we forgive his ignorance, but someone still had to be a smartass instead of just helping.
Weldit - when we talk about a node in reference to loading for a precision rifle, we're looking at a progression of (usually) powder charges or seating depth, and looking for a cluster of points that all result in very similar point of impact, or velocity, etc.
Although to be fair, in the context of the post you had replied to in your question, the concept of finding a "node" in velocity from a string of a single shot at each charge is highly questionable at best. It's no surprise at all that he saw a different "node" when he repeated it - what he thinks is a "node" is far more likely to be just a random clustering of the data.*
*This is a lot like 3 shot groups - if you look at a group of 10 or more shots, you can almost always pick at least one or two three shot groups within that 10 shots that would measure out as a much smaller group size. Now imagine by random chance you'd fired just those three shots - that's why 3 shot groups are so unreliable as an indicator of performance. But that person's shot string above was essentially using 1 shot "groups" (sample sizes) - far worse than even 3 shot groups.
Hope that helps.
Chill man. Someone new asked a question and didn't try to act smarter than you. Don't be an ass.
A point in time that a barrel has reached a repeatable place in it's swing. A tiny dead spot in movement at the point the bullet exits.
Powder charge and normally then seating depth are adjusted to try and find that spot in the barrel's vibration.
Generally a "good node" has a larger margin of error and produces smaller groups.
That's not the best explination of it since it involves more factors.
But that is what the reference is describing as I see it.
I think horizontal stringing of groups indicate sideways swing, then I get vertical stringing.
When I get "round" or cloverleaf type groups I figure I'm gtg.
IMHO
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Damn man . . . Thank you for that. I know the verbage relative to the shooting sports is somethingSort of, but it's not spelled out in the context of the reloading world. I can understand how someone new might not know what we're talking about in reference to a "node". And he even asked that we forgive his ignorance, but someone still had to be a smartass instead of just helping.
Weldit - when we talk about a node in reference to loading for a precision rifle, we're looking at a progression of (usually) powder charges or seating depth, and looking for a cluster of points that all result in very similar point of impact, or velocity, etc.
Although to be fair, in the context of the post you had replied to in your question, the concept of finding a "node" in velocity from a string of a single shot at each charge is highly questionable at best. It's no surprise at all that he saw a different "node" when he repeated it - what he thinks is a "node" is far more likely to be just a random clustering of the data.*
*This is a lot like 3 shot groups - if you look at a group of 10 or more shots, you can almost always pick at least one or two three shot groups within that 10 shots that would measure out as a much smaller group size. Now imagine by random chance you'd fired just those three shots - that's why 3 shot groups are so unreliable as an indicator of performance. But that person's shot string above was essentially using 1 shot "groups" (sample sizes) - far worse than even 3 shot groups.
Hope that helps.
I have to learn. I would have expected the bad attitude from some jerk at ARF.com but not here.
Guess I was wrong. I'm too old to deal with that type. Not enough life left to waste on that.
I just loaded up some 5.56 and some Grendel in .3 steps, 5 shot groups. Then in order to save a
little on the consumables I just tonight loaded some grendel in 3 shot groups. Then I read this.
I think I'll load up the other 2 rds in the groups tomorrow. There was something that just didn't
seem right about the 3 shot groups. A flier or 2 and the group is worthless or so it would seem
to a new guy.
Thanks again for taking the time to explain.
Jim W.
I did 3 shot tests a lot on things with limmited availability while things were very hard to get.
If 3 shots won't group 5 won't iether. If you shank a preliminary test shot, note and disregard it.
Heavy bags and a slow pace
When I get to final tests I do 5 for actual group measurements.
If 3 shots won't group 5 won't iether. If you shank a preliminary test shot, note and disregard it.
Heavy bags and a slow pace
When I get to final tests I do 5 for actual group measurements.
I always have more respect for someone who's able to admit when they were wrong, especially since most people here won't so it's nice to see someone able to stand a little taller than the rest.
Just a regular old PSA 12“ on a rickety ass Magpul bipod. Typically, .6’s, .7’s are pretty dang good for this particular set up. Looks like I’ll be doing some more work with that 28.8 load. Also have 29.1 loaded, just didn’t get a chance to shoot it today. Need to shoot that as well and also check velocity. So for now, no velocity reading. I typically have been finding accuracy and then checking velocity. Probably backwards, but works for me. Anyways, figured I’d share since it’s different than the usual 123 loads that seem to dominate the Grendel.
Just a regular old PSA 12“ on a rickety ass Magpul bipod. Typically, .6’s, .7’s are pretty dang good for this particular set up. Looks like I’ll be doing some more work with that 28.8 load. Also have 29.1 loaded, just didn’t get a chance to shoot it today. Need to shoot that as well and also check velocity. So for now, no velocity reading. I typically have been finding accuracy and then checking velocity. Probably backwards, but works for me. Anyways, figured I’d share since it’s different than the usual 123 loads that seem to dominate the Grendel.
Nice shooting. I love my 12" PSA 6.5G. Bought the upper over BF to use as a suppressed thermal host. I lost exactly 200fps going from my 18" Larue UU upper to the PSA (2457fps -> 2257fps) running a 123gr ELD-M over 28.5gr of 8208XBR.
Check this out.
Deflector Brake Home
The Deflector Brake from HAVOC Tactical LLC saves brass for re-loading protects rifle paint/coatings, prevents brass burns, and piles brass up right next to you. Save Your Brass While Keeping The Range Safe: Reloaders and Left-Handed Shooters Ultimate Shooting Range Accessory. Fits Most Mil-Spec...
www.deflectorbrake.com
Very cool. I used the soft side of a piece of velcro and it works great too. I used the kind that has the peel and stick, just cut to size.Check this out.
Deflector Brake Home
The Deflector Brake from HAVOC Tactical LLC saves brass for re-loading protects rifle paint/coatings, prevents brass burns, and piles brass up right next to you. Save Your Brass While Keeping The Range Safe: Reloaders and Left-Handed Shooters Ultimate Shooting Range Accessory. Fits Most Mil-Spec...
Anyone have starting loads for ARcomp for a 95gr Vmax? I was going to try that and I have some benchmark. Really looking for a good year round coyote recipe so more temp stable would be ideal. I thought my 123sst was it but some of them just punch holes and results in a dog running off
Every barrel is different, For the 95 VMax, I'd try the benchmark with a starting load about 27.0 grains and work up from there.
I think the AR Comp will run out of case capacity before you can get an acceptable velocity.
I have a 6.5 CM load for the 95 VMax that uses AR Comp, and there's quite a bit more case capacity in the CM vs. Grendel
Great thank you. Yea its a small case for sure, I also shoot a 260. I will try both and see. I have more Arcomp, I will let u know what happens.
Oh great thank you! Doing my own research I was going to start at 27.0. What primer were you using? I have a 16in barrel. I run a suppressor, thats why I run a shorter barrel. Mixed with my thermal.......nasty.
Couldn't find any data on VV N135 and the 108gr Scenar (probably for a reason).
Tried it today using data for the 123gr Scenar. Unfortunately I ran out of case capacity, and accuracy deteriorated before I got to the velocity I was hoping for.
However ES and SD were pretty nice.
20" Wilson Combat barrel
Tried it today using data for the 123gr Scenar. Unfortunately I ran out of case capacity, and accuracy deteriorated before I got to the velocity I was hoping for.
However ES and SD were pretty nice.
20" Wilson Combat barrel
If you have any 8208, have run 108’s with 28.5gr in Hornady brass to 2655 avg of 5 shots with 11 SD. Have some 108’s and my ‘go to’ Grendel powder, AR Comp, and a 20” WC barrel and will report back. 27.0 ARC with 120 Scenars is money at 2550 avg of 10 shots in 20” Proof and 22” WC barrels.
8208 XBR gave me another 100 FPS over the N135, and accuracy was best at the highest charge weights.
However for me, the best I could do is 1 MOA on the nose with the 108gr Scenar and 8208.
I bought 8 lbs of it a few years ago...will keep trying with other bullets. I have 123gr Scenars and Nosler CCs on hand too.
However for me, the best I could do is 1 MOA on the nose with the 108gr Scenar and 8208.
I bought 8 lbs of it a few years ago...will keep trying with other bullets. I have 123gr Scenars and Nosler CCs on hand too.
I have a bunch of 107smk pulls I'm considering loading over Win748 (would try Match if I could find). My daughter can outshoot me with 120gr GDs over w748. It breaks my brain.
Me too (Controlled Chaos and AA 2520)...but I had very mixed results on game. I thought they'd be absolute hammers, but turned out that only worked on CNS shots.
Without another need the ~50% hazmat would be a bit painful. Maybe if they get some vaporware LRPs in.
What bullets do we like for Hogs in the Grendel ?
I've used 120 Nosler Ballistic Tips on antelope with good effect, but I think I'd like a little sturdier bullet for porkers.
Anyone try the Barnes 100 TTSX or 115 Tac TX or the Maker Bullets T-Rex 110's or 120's on hogs ?
I've used 120 Nosler Ballistic Tips on antelope with good effect, but I think I'd like a little sturdier bullet for porkers.
Anyone try the Barnes 100 TTSX or 115 Tac TX or the Maker Bullets T-Rex 110's or 120's on hogs ?
Ive used 130 tmk and 127 lrx both to good effect. That said Im taking head shots under 100yds so probably anything works.
We even used 60gr VMax in ARs and literally blew their faces off, so I agree just about anything works under 100 works
The preloaded ammo or the component? I'd heard it's been discontinued several times now yet I've bought 7 or 8 boxes now when they get receive a run of them @MIDWAY. Based on the infrequency I just presumed they were limited occasional run much like Starline Grendel brass.Fixed that for you.
100gr TTSX...a couple tests. Guess I never did a full after action on them. Would use for hogs again.
Surprisingly, I had horrible results with the 120gr Gold Dot. I probably didn't get it going fast enough. At least 50% of the hogs I dropped, got up and ran off. Yet, the 64gr Gold Dot in my .223 is pretty damn effective.
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip results. Would use again, but I wouldn't try body shots on big hogs...little hogs though (under 150lbs), it is a devastating bullet. Only bullet that ever gave me a "pink mist" on thermal.
I brought my daughter up aiming to the front shoulder. Hog @ 125y broke both legs where she hit and passed through, ~2450fps. Both deer dropped and save for a couple twitches from one stopped moving, no search required. Both also pass-thrus. Both were a little higher than the hog though. Howa Mini so moderately short barrel too if it matters.
Could never find the ttsx in stock at first and by the time I did, the accuracy we were seeing from the GD in her rifle were near unpainted to ignore. I will say it shot terribly with imr4166 (which pairs well with hornady129s tho) but it seems to LOVE w748. Still breaks my brain. My Swede runs spectacularly well on Varget, h4350, and h4831 with virtually any bullet but her Grendel is somewhat picky.
I have the 223 setup with 70gr for deer and my younger daughter. No luck yet though so unsure about performance but have heard good things. I have since picked up some 55 and 62gr ttsx in case it goes poorly.
AA has 108gr/N135 data, 27.0-27.3 grains
Yep. Bid on (10) lots of 500 rounds of factory Speer Gold Dot ammo on Gunbroker. Maxed my bid on each at $200, thinking that I might win one or maybe two.
Won 7 of them. Will be using it for quite some time.
* This was in 2019.
Cool, thanks. 27.0 grew my COL by .006-.007. I'm betting that AA was using different brass than I used.
I think you'd probably have to work at it to get pressure so high with N135 that you will blow primers etc... but by 26.4 I was getting a good crunch.
Unfortunately for me, groups at 27.0 were coming apart badly.
I've got N133, I will probably give that a try. VV has data showing 27.8gr at 2,638.
Ive smoked some whiteys with the 62 TTSX. You'll like those. Ive been nothing but thrilled with all the Barnes stuff Ive used. The 62 TTSX in 223, the 127 LRX in the 6.5 G and the .260 and the 168 TTSX in 308 and 06 have all been wonderfully deadly. Ive only recovered a couple bullets over the years and they have been impressive expansion and weight retention wise.
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