6.5 SAUM: Whats the big deal

[JoshcBoucher]

A small side que[stion. Did the Bears find ya?QUOTE=hognuts;3255898]I run one for hunting and my primary reason for building it was because I already had an Elite Iron Suppressor for a 6.5 (ran it on my Creedmoor) I shot a spike bull up in Montana at 650 yards with my Creedmoor, the first round went right behind the shoulder and was a "through and through" shot and jellied the liver, the elk didn't drop right away and turned quartering towards me. I sent another and hit him directly in the shoulder and dropped him. Didn't think too much of it at the time. When I was skinning it I found that the second round that hit him in the shoulder (in the dense muscle tissue of the shoulder) had only penetrated about 1-1 1/2". If that had been my first shot he probably would have gotten away wounded. I wanted something with a little more gas behind it, seemed like I was pushing the limits of what the Creedmoor could do at that distance on an elk size animal.

I like how "flat shooting" the SAUM is. I am still skeptical on the barrel life claims that have been made, I have just over 800 rounds through mine and I love it, remains to be seen how many "good rounds" I get through it, but I am running the 130 Berger HVLD's and they are around 3200-3250. (I punched a hole through one of my AR 500 targets at 100 yards with it, sent 5 just dicking around, 4 of them pitted it pretty good, one punched a .264" in my steel! oops I have shot a .270 for hunting as well and there is nothing wrong with that rifle for putting down game, but it is not even in the same zip code as a 6.5 SAUM.

If you are looking for an excuse to get one, one of my favorite things about it in a hunting application, even if you have a minor ranging error, chances are you are still going to be able to put one in the kill zone if you are in the ballpark on range.

I head shot a mule deer at 560 yards in the Rubies last year at a pretty severe angle (suppressed ) Wouldn't have even tried that shot with my trusty old .270, shot a 334 bull in the Bridger Tetons with it last fall 320 yards, bull was running up a ridge away from me, put one in his spine (kind of far back, was "ambushing" him as he ran through a clearing), that round stopped him then put one between the shoulders about 1/2" to the right of his spine on second shot.




Bull from Bridger Tetons last fall. 320 yards 6.5 SAUM.


Head shot on Mule deer in Ruby Mountains in Nevada last fall. 560 yards, 6.5 SAUM


Pics from the Wyoming hunt last fall. Good luck to you all this fall, whichever rifle you have in your hands! [/QUOTE]

 

[MoBoost]

You can't compare tactical and F-Class barrel life.

F-Open you shoot 20 round strings (and often very fast to catch the wind) and if it drops above .5 MOA you pull it (since most of the time it's the X's that determine the winner). Since you are shooting known distance - predictability trumps flatness.

Tactical - the strings are short and far apart. The velocity drop is the indicator of "shot" barrel. Vertical advantage is just as important as horizontal (you have to make distance AND wind calls). 6.5SAUM dropping 100fps is still at the "speed limit" of 3200 - 6.5x284 drops 100fps into 2700 and might as well shoot 308 class.

Like I said 6.5 SAUM is a very clever solution to a certain problem. However, in most applications (hunting, practice, mid-range) it's no different than 270Win - and I am using that as an insult here, since I think 270Win is one of the worst cartridges ever made.

It's definitely not do-all - magnum face, magnum powder consumption, magnum recoil - all that to deliver a 140gn pill .... Real magnums are not impressed LOL

 

[JoshcBoucher]

A small side que[stion. Did the Bears find ya?QUOTE=hognuts;3255898]I run one for hunting and my primary reason for building it was because I already had an Elite Iron Suppressor for a 6.5 (ran it on my Creedmoor) I shot a spike bull up in Montana at 650 yards with my Creedmoor, the first round went right behind the shoulder and was a "through and through" shot and jellied the liver, the elk didn't drop right away and turned quartering towards me. I sent another and hit him directly in the shoulder and dropped him. Didn't think too much of it at the time. When I was skinning it I found that the second round that hit him in the shoulder (in the dense muscle tissue of the shoulder) had only penetrated about 1-1 1/2". If that had been my first shot he probably would have gotten away wounded. I wanted something with a little more gas behind it, seemed like I was pushing the limits of what the Creedmoor could do at that distance on an elk size animal.

I like how "flat shooting" the SAUM is. I am still skeptical on the barrel life claims that have been made, I have just over 800 rounds through mine and I love it, remains to be seen how many "good rounds" I get through it, but I am running the 130 Berger HVLD's and they are around 3200-3250. (I punched a hole through one of my AR 500 targets at 100 yards with it, sent 5 just dicking around, 4 of them pitted it pretty good, one punched a .264" in my steel! oops I have shot a .270 for hunting as well and there is nothing wrong with that rifle for putting down game, but it is not even in the same zip code as a 6.5 SAUM.

If you are looking for an excuse to get one, one of my favorite things about it in a hunting application, even if you have a minor ranging error, chances are you are still going to be able to put one in the kill zone if you are in the ballpark on range.

I head shot a mule deer at 560 yards in the Rubies last year at a pretty severe angle (suppressed ) Wouldn't have even tried that shot with my trusty old .270, shot a 334 bull in the Bridger Tetons with it last fall 320 yards, bull was running up a ridge away from me, put one in his spine (kind of far back, was "ambushing" him as he ran through a clearing), that round stopped him then put one between the shoulders about 1/2" to the right of his spine on second shot.




Bull from Bridger Tetons last fall. 320 yards 6.5 SAUM.


Head shot on Mule deer in Ruby Mountains in Nevada last fall. 560 yards, 6.5 SAUM


Pics from the Wyoming hunt last fall. Good luck to you all this fall, whichever rifle you have in your hands! [/QUOTE]

 

[steve123]

The main culprit with barrel wear, specifically throat wear is "HEAT", more pressure-more heat.
It's kinda like your Dasher pushing 105's at 3000 fps and your 6x47L pushing the same bullet the same speed. The Dasher is at max whereas the 6x47L is a light/medium load. The 6x47L will theoretically get better barrel life because it's using less pressure/heat to attain the same speed. I pushed the velocity/pressures on my 6mmART40 which has almost as much capacity as a 6BR, 105's/26" barrel at 2900 fps at first and as the barrel wore it slowed down to 2875 fps. It was showing signs of deteriorating accuracy at 1500 rounds.

At 3050fps the dasher would need 38gr of 4350 giving 59Kpsi. The 6x47 to get the same speed with the same powder needs 41.5gr at 54Kpsi. I can tell you they will last just as long at that level at best, but the extra powder vs the slightly lower pressure will most likely mean the 6x47 will last a bit shorter. I'm getting 2000-2500 from the 6x47 and got 3000-3500 from the Dasher. I am not shooting soft loads on the 6x47, but that will not account for doubling the barrel life, let alone tripling it.


The only way to get longer barrel life is to select a powder that has less energy, but that will mean more volume of a slower powder, kind of negating things. Avoiding double based powders is the thing that will save barrel life, not so much the larger case. I shot N165 in my 6.5-284s and they lasted 2000 rounds easily at <0.5moa level for f-class.


You refer to the 6.5-284 as being shot "hot" and the 6.5saum as being shot "not as hot". Hot refers to pressure relative to the case. You might have less pressure with the 6.5SAUM, but you are using more powder to compensate for the loss of pressure, and slower powder to spread the pressure and still get the required gas volume for the same speed.

[MENTION=83455]Rhino[/MENTION]: There are more options, no need to call anyone a liar, that is quite a black/white view of matters... it depends on what your expectation for accuracy is, hence the "I believe you're getting 3000 rounds" line. I know people that got 7000 rounds from a PPC barrel, where 1500 is the norm for changing them out. But if you take the same accuracy for both cases, there will not be a difference between the 6.5-284 and 6.5saum in terms of barrel life. This is just like the 6.5 SLR debate that magically doubled barrel life by adding more powder.

PS: My 6.5-284 barrels (and several other shooters here) got 2000-2500 rounds from it before not grouping adequatly anymore for my purpose (<0.5moa). Yet I know people that only got 1200-1500 rounds from theirs, using the same powders etc. I know why there was a difference, time between rounds, and it has nothing to do with more/less powder. I've been wildcatting and shooting BR/F for 15 years, I know when something sounds too good to be true, it always is.

I didn't know 38 grains of H-4350 could be crammed into a Dasher case??? It's a 33 grain case, correct???. I'll go out on a limb here and say if you are pushing 105's at 3050 fps with your dasher you have a really long barrel and the pressures are more than 59,000. I'll be honest, I don't understand how you would be getting the kind of barrel life you claim with that load, or I should say accurate barrel life without at least one set back because the throat should have been torched.

I suppose logically there is a point at which the burn rate of the powder, the pressure attained and the heat generated combined are what shortens or lengthens a barrels "accurate" barrel life. Well, along with rate of fire and other factors too. It must be that H-1000 has a burn characteristic that prolongs barrel life, that's the only thing I can figure.

I know a guy that got 2800 rounds out of his 6.5-284. The problem was is he was down loading it to 2760 fps with 140's which to me is silly when a 260 will get similar barrel life at normal pressures. He was also using a fast powder for the cartridge though. Perhaps if people were using H-1000 in their 6.5-284 at lower pressures they could get even better barrel life but then again the velocity would only be slightly higher than the common 6.5's. Are your friends setting their barrels back on their 6.5-284's? I know if I were shooting benchrest I sure as heck wouldn't be taking a barrel to the line with high round count that was about to go to sh!t at any moment.

Uh, the 6PPC short range benchrest shooters I know consider their barrel as having lost it's competitive edge or full accuracy potential at 700-800 rounds. I bought one with 800 rounds through it. Darn barrel wouldn't shoot in .1's anymore, a barrel which won small group at Ben Avery a few times. Good thing I'm not a BR shooter and was plenty happy with .2's and 3's, haha. It got changed to 6BR shortly after.

 

[Rhyno]

Ahhhhhh broken quotes!

 

[hognuts]

We had a few bear encounters, one ate the guts out of my elk. Shot it in the afternoon. Had to come back for it the next morning. (It was in just about the shittiest spot I have seen or heard about! . ). We had another that passed through camp twice. The camp one we saw, once in day time and once at night. No real "close calls" or bluffs or anything, though it gets your undivided attention every time you see one of those big bastards!

 

[Jig Stick]

I don't know how that first statement makes any sense. It's not going to save you if you completely screw it up, but having less wind drift means that reading the wind matters less unless you're overestimating the wind. Less wind drift means that underestimating the wind will matter a lot less because the adjustment you're making is much smaller and the amount the bullet is traveling is much less.

I guess what I am getting at is this. Any benefit in a reduction in wind drift is worth less to me than being able to find ammo. I can't think of anything much worse than getting to camp for an elk or moose hunt and realizing that you forgot 6.5 SAUM ammo, or only threw 1-2 loads in our bag and headed up the mountain, only to need a 3rd. The comfort I get knowing that my guide or buddy shooting a more common caliber (with similar performance) if this scenario would occur, at camp, or up a mountain with game in range, that they could give me a bullet to put in my rifle, outweighs the wind drift benefit. Of course that is assuming both of us or somebody else in the party is shooting the same caliber as me. Im sure all of us do a "cost vs benefit" comparison when building expensive custom rifles. And each persons "needs / wants / requirements" are unique. I really want to try this 6.5 SAUM. Im not denying its performance or anything like that. But right now its "costs" outweigh its "benefits" for ME. But I have been enlightened regarding the caliber. And I appreciate the education.

 

[BoilerUP]

I guess what I am getting at is this. Any benefit in a reduction in wind drift is worth less to me than being able to find ammo.

Then why did you start a thread asking about the "hoopla" of a WILDCAT chambering?

 

[Infringed711]

I shouldn't have opened this thread, I didn't know much about the cartridge and now I want one...

 

[hognuts]

I guess what I am getting at is this. Any benefit in a reduction in wind drift is worth less to me than being able to find ammo. I can't think of anything much worse than getting to camp for an elk or moose hunt and realizing that you forgot 6.5 SAUM ammo, or only threw 1-2 loads in our bag and headed up the mountain, only to need a 3rd. The comfort I get knowing that my guide or buddy shooting a more common caliber (with similar performance) if this scenario would occur, at camp, or up a mountain with game in range, that they could give me a bullet to put in my rifle, outweighs the wind drift benefit. Of course that is assuming both of us or somebody else in the party is shooting the same caliber as me. Im sure all of us do a "cost vs benefit" comparison when building expensive custom rifles. And each persons "needs / wants / requirements" are unique. I really want to try this 6.5 SAUM. Im not denying its performance or anything like that. But right now its "costs" outweigh its "benefits" for ME. But I have been enlightened regarding the caliber. And I appreciate the education.

Again, I am not trying to be rude, but I would never go hunting without being prepared with whatever rifle I planned on using and to me that means knowing that I have the best performing load for my rifle, and have good data for it at various distances, I would never just go afield and hope my buddy had (or hardware store had) something that would go bang. You have no reasonable expectation of accuracy with some random ass ammo that you haven't shot before. The only scenario I can imagine where that would work for me is if I was shooting my Creedmoor and was hunting with a team mate that I shoot matches with, we all have our rifles head spaced the same and run identical loads, but I don't think we are comparing apples to apples when you are trying to say that the benefit of any of these other calibers is you can find ammo in your buddy's pack or at walmart, or the hardware store, because if you are doing that, almost any other caliber that someone had taken the time to do load development for and gotten dope with is going to out perform it as far as accuracy and the 6.5 SAUM with that same care and due diligence is going to completely blow out of water in those categories, wind, danger space, etc...

I understand you don't like the brass prep, neither do I, that's why I buy mine from copper creek. I usually buy my next batch before the current batch is "used up" that way I am never waiting. (I have been running Remmington brass because it was the cheapest, but I have 100 rounds of Norma brass waiting for when I get my current batch of Remmington shot out)

I have never left the house for a hunt with 2 rounds, I am not Davey Crocket! I just load up a batch (of 50) throw those fuckers in the pack and if that's not enough then I just suck at life!

 

[Jig Stick]

To each his own.

 

[hognuts]

To each his own.

I reckon so.

 

[gregsjt]

Here's my question: What is the advantage of the 6.5 over the parent cartridge? I know you can hot rod the 6.5 and get the velocity into the 3100 -3200 fps range, but if you are staying in the 3000 fps range, why not shoot the 7mm version with 160 grain bullets? Its not hard to get the 7mm to 3000 fps with 160's, most have as good or better BC's, so your drop and wind should be very similar. If the main purpose of this round is for hunting, you get more energy down range with a heavier 7mm bullet. Plus, you have the option of running even heavier bullets if you're going after bigger animals, ie. elk or bear.

And please, lets not get into barrel life, I really can't see a 6.5 barrel getting better barrel life than the 7mm under similar circumstances. Let's look at the .308 case for an example. It's pretty well known that the .308 gets better barrel life than than the 7mm-08, the 7mm-08 gets barrel life than the .260, and the .260 gets better barrel life than the .243. So why would using a SAUM case change the scenario?

The only real advantage I see is recoil, but again, this is supposed to be a hunting gun, not a gun that gets 20 round strings while you're laying prone. I don't think the recoil difference is that big when you're only taking one or two shots at game. And lets be real, the 7mm doesn't really kick that bad anyway.

I guess I just don't get it, maybe someone can tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[Captramrod01]

Gregsjt - I suggest comparing the drop chart of a 140 hybrid at 3100 fps to whatever 160gr 7mm at 3k. Also why so skeptical on barrel life? There's probably 10 threads explaining why this round can get better barrel life then the other wsm or saum chamberings.

 

[BoilerUP]

Quick - somebody ask Pat or George how a 6.5mm 130gr bullet does on elk and bear...

 

[gregsjt]

Gregsjt - I suggest comparing the drop chart of a 140 hybrid at 3100 fps to whatever 160gr 7mm at 3k. Also why so skeptical on barrel life? There's probably 10 threads explaining why this round can get better barrel life then the other wsm or saum chamberings.

So I ran the comparison on Shooter at my elevation (4500 ft.), temp 70, humidity 40%, 6.5 at 3100 fps with berger 140 hybrid, 7mm at 3000 with 168 berger vld, both the Litz verified BC's. The 6.5 is 12.2 inches flatter, and is better in the wind by 4.3 inches at 1000. But the 7mm has 66 ft. lbs. better energy.

So obviously its not that big of a difference, but if you run the numbers again with both at 3000, which supposedly is the parameter set to achieve max barrel life, then the 7mm is 4.8 inches flatter, 1.5 inches better in the wind, and carries 158 ft. lbs. more energy.

Obviously we're splitting hairs, both are awesome ballistically.

"Quick - somebody ask Pat or George how a 6.5mm 130gr bullet does on elk and bear..."

I've seen the pictures, I'm not saying you can't kill those animals with a 6.5, I just don't see why you would choose a 6.5 over the 7mm when they are so close ballistically and you have the option of using heavier bullets with the 7.

Plus, how is this argument any different than the 6.5 Mag vs. the 7mm Mag, seems like that argument was decided long ago. Most people have never heard of the 6.5 mag, yet the 7mm mag is one of the most popular rounds of all time? And the reason the 6.5 fell to the wayside? It burned barrels, and the 7mm was more beneficial in most hunting scenarios, i.e. bigger selection of bullets and as good or better ballistics.

I would never discourage anyone from getting another gun in another caliber just for the hell of it, so I know you don't really need a reason other than "I want one". But, again, I don't know why we're reinventing the wheel. I hate to say it, but I think we've got a bit of the old kool aid factor here.

 

[knockemdown]

So obviously its not that big of a difference, but if you run the numbers again with both at 3000, which supposedly is the parameter set to achieve max barrel life, then the 7mm is 4.8 inches flatter, 1.5 inches better in the wind, and carries 158 ft. lbs. more energy.

Run the #s again, this time with loads @ equal pressure, not muzzle velocity.
Quickload is your friend...

Also, keep in mind you're drawing a comparison between a true short action cartridge (6.5 SAUM) and a true long action cartridge (7RM)

 

[tigerfan_9]

running the 6.5 saum with 140 at 3100-3150 or the 130 at 3200-3250 is not "hot rodding" as per all the discussions from george, pat, etc. This is the normal range, you can hot rod it fast and then you will be losing barrel life. Also one of the parameters set for the design of the 6.5 saum was to maximise the "short action". If you start using longer 7mm bullets you will run into problems fitting them in the mag, losing case volume (performance), ejection problems with longer OALs, etc.

 

[gregsjt]

Run the #s again, this time with loads @ equal pressure, not muzzle velocity.
Quickload is your friend...

Also, keep in mind you're drawing a comparison between a true short action cartridge (6.5 SAUM) and a true long action cartridge (7RM)

No, I'm drawing a comparison between 6.5 SAUM and 7mm SAUM. I used the 7mm Mag and the 6.5 Mag as a parallel comparison.

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[gregsjt]

running the 6.5 saum with 140 at 3100-3150 or the 130 at 3200-3250 is not "hot rodding" as per all the discussions from george, pat, etc. This is the normal range, you can hot rod it fast and then you will be losing barrel life. Also one of the parameters set for the design of the 6.5 saum was to maximise the "short action". If you start using longer 7mm bullets you will run into problems fitting them in the mag, losing case volume (performance), ejection problems with longer OALs, etc.

I understand that you can get more speed but then you're losing barrel life, which is supposedly the point. You can also get the 7mm over 3100 with RL17, I've done it with 162 Amax. However, I wouldn't do it again. I think the numbers I ran are reasonable speeds for both.

The berger 6.5 140 is 1.412" the 7 168 is 1.445" according to Shooter. Is that a big enough difference to make one a viable short action and the other a marginal short action? I don't know, but its not night and day. I doubt you would set either caliber up to run at 2.8 OAL.


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[gregsjt]

running the 6.5 saum with 140 at 3100-3150 or the 130 at 3200-3250 is not "hot rodding" as per all the discussions from george, pat, etc. This is the normal range, you can hot rod it fast and then you will be losing barrel life. Also one of the parameters set for the design of the 6.5 saum was to maximise the "short action". If you start using longer 7mm bullets you will run into problems fitting them in the mag, losing case volume (performance), ejection problems with longer OALs, etc.

One other thing, if your running the 6.5 this fast, how is it any better on barrels than a 6.5 mag? If this theory is correct, you could run the 6.5 in a long action with a little more case capacity and shoot those speeds with even less pressure, right? Or even better, why not do it with the 6.5 that Nosler just came out with? Someone above said it best, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

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[tigerfan_9]

One other thing, if your running the 6.5 this fast, how is it any better on barrels than a 6.5 mag? If this theory is correct, you could run the 6.5 in a long action with a little more case capacity and shoot those speeds with even less pressure, right? Or even better, why not do it with the 6.5 that Nosler just came out with? Someone above said it best, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

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The barrel life at these speeds have been proven by george, pat and others.....if you choose to not believe it then that is up to you.

 

[BoilerUP]

Didn't George have his GAP 4S barrel set back at some point in the total barrel life?

 

[TimeWillTell]

One other thing, if your running the 6.5 this fast, how is it any better on barrels than a 6.5 mag? If this theory is correct, you could run the 6.5 in a long action with a little more case capacity and shoot those speeds with even less pressure, right? Or even better, why not do it with the 6.5 that Nosler just came out with? Someone above said it best, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

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I suggest you go read (or re-read) the original 6.5 saum 4S. This cartridge was not meant to be the be-all end-all. It was meant to fit a very certain criteria.

1) fit the heavy for caliber bullets in a true short action DBM.
2) 6 mils or less elevation to 1000 yards.
3) run at pressures similar to the 308 cartridge, in which the 6.5 saum has a barrel like of 2500+ rounds (yes this can vary depending on how you run it and the pressures).
4) enough energy for hunting at 1000 yards.

It is a very nice cartridge that fits these criteria. It is not for everyone and does not fill what every single person wants or needs. Does it do the above very well, yes it does. I was skeptical about barrel life also, but there are now many cases where it holds true. I am not willing to sit here and say that George, Pat and all the others are lying about the barrel life. I will be having one built very soon.

 

[Rhyno]

Didn't George have his GAP 4S barrel set back at some point in the total barrel life?

He did, he stated he didn't need to but since the barrel was off he went ahead and did it. That was his first barrel, his subsequent barrel has not been set back, and neither have others.

 

[TimeWillTell]

Didn't George have his GAP 4S barrel set back at some point in the total barrel life?

Yes he had his barrel off to fit a brake around like 2000 rds or so and decided to set it back since it was already off. If I recall last I saw he had nearly 4000 rds on that barrel now. So if you want to set it back you can expect a longer barrel life, but the 2500 rds are for a non-set back barrel life.

 

[knockemdown]

No, I'm drawing a comparison between 6.5 SAUM and 7mm SAUM. I used the 7mm Mag and the 6.5 Mag as a parallel comparison.

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My bad.
OK, forget the SA, LA comparison.

Run the #s
7SAUM w/ 168s to 6.5SAUM w/140s, at equal pressure with H1000
Use 2.900 for coal, to be fair to both.

You'll see the 7SAUM is at a speed deficit, to the tune of ~120fps. That's according to my QL calcs.
Also, a 140 JLK beats a 168 Berger in b.c. (G1 b.c. of .630 > .618)

Apples to apples:
Same length, same powder, same pressure, the 6.5 beats the 7mm version. Handily...

 

[steve123]

Somebody who has worn out a 6.5 Saum barrel should start a 6.5 Saum barrel life thread listing all pertinent info.

 

[gregsjt]

How many grains of H1000 is everyone using to get to 3000-3100 fps in the 6.5? I don't have quick load, and I don't think you can post the pressure info, but I'll take your word that the 7mm is slower at the same pressure.

Plus, to keep the comparison apples to apples let's stick to bergers, I think everyone trusts the BC numbers that Litz has come up with. Let's not do what the manufactures do and compare the highest BC bullet possible to an average BC bullet. I'm sure I could find some uber 7mm bullet that has a higher BC than the JLK, but why, let's stick with closer to average scenarios.

So, in the first batch of numbers I ran, I used 3100 for the 6.5 and 3000 for the 7mm. Isn't that close to what your saying the numbers would be if you ran both at similar pressures? And if that is the case, well, we're still splitting hairs with the 6.5 being slightly flatter, 12", and the 7mm carrying more energy. But tell me this? If you ran both at similar pressures, shouldn't you be able to get the same or better barrel life out of the 7?

I'm not out to call anyone a liar or anything like that, I do think it is a cool round. It would be fun and I think it fits a niche, which is exactly why we have so many different rounds to begin with. Like I said before I just don't know why we're reinventing the wheel.


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[A10XRIFLE]

Pats current barrel is approaching 3000 rounds 2800+ to be exact and he is using it through this hunting season. My 2nd barrel is at 1700+ now and has lots of life left. Brian Yeung is on his 3rd previous 2 made 2700-2900 rounds. Im still perfectly fine telling everyone that 2500-3000 is the expected Barrel life as all barrels tested have made the mark. It will take a couple years before most guys can report on their barrel life as most guys dont shoot as much as pat , Bryan and I.

The felt recoil of this cartridge is light, recoil is a huge problem with allot of shooters, its what induces a flinch in most guys.

Being able to follow through and actually see a hit or a miss on target is paramount in long range shooting.

There are lots of cartridges that can out do the ballistics. But none of them can do it without a trade off of heavy recoil, low barrel life, long actions


Ive laid right beside a guy with a 338 Edge, beside him a 338 Norma, beside him a 7mm WSM. Target was at 1500 I put 3 rounds on steel before the other 3 connected with the target. 5 rounds on target before all 3 of the others connected at least once. WHY??? Recoil Management and Short Action!

its why the #1 phrase guys say after shooting one for the first time. "Thats the deadliest gun ive ever shot" !!!

 

[TimeWillTell]

I believe guys are running 60-62 grs H1000. I don't have and won't have QL handy for a bit but I don't think when comparing the heavy 6.5mm vs the heavy 7mm (berger 140 vs 180) that you can get the 180 to 3000 at same pressures or at short action dbm mag length. Really need a longer COAL and a longer barrel for the 180gr 7mm saum.

 

[MoBoost]

Ive laid right beside a guy with a 338 Edge, beside him a 338 Norma, beside him a 7mm WSM. Target was at 1500 I put 3 rounds on steel before the other 3 connected with the target. 5 rounds on target before all 3 of the others connected at least once. WHY??? Recoil Management and Short Action!

Go ahead and admit to an ultimate brain fart! WHY??? Length of action does not go in front of superior marksmanship, superior experience and superior equipment. The story would be just as good if you were shooting a damn rolling block with broken extractor LOL

 

[Graywolf.260]

The felt recoil of this cartridge is light, recoil is a huge problem with allot of shooters, its what induces a flinch in most guys.

Being able to follow through and actually see a hit or a miss on target is paramount in long range shooting.

There are lots of cartridges that can out do the ballistics. But none of them can do it without a trade off of heavy recoil, low barrel life, long actions


Ive laid right beside a guy with a 338 Edge, beside him a 338 Norma, beside him a 7mm WSM. Target was at 1500 I put 3 rounds on steel before the other 3 connected with the target. 5 rounds on target before all 3 of the others connected at least once. WHY??? Recoil Management and Short Action!

its why the #1 phrase guys say after shooting one for the first time. "Thats the deadliest gun ive ever shot" !!!

Have you shot it without a brake? What does the recoil compare to?
I have a 6.5 SAUM in the works at GAP but I'm on the fence about getting a Vais, not crazy about brakes on hunting rifles.

 

[RealRomulus]

15+% in BC is quite a bit after 700 yards and out to practical ranges of decent hit probability.

 

[waveslayer]

Have you shot it without a brake? What does the recoil compare to?
I have a 6.5 SAUM in the works at GAP but I'm on the fence about getting a Vais, not crazy about brakes on hunting rifles.

I shoot with out a brake and the recoil is nothing. Of course I also hunt with a 7.82 Warbird based off the .416... it has a brake because it will brake your shoulder.
The 6.5 SAUM has, in my opinion hardly any recoil