6.5cm Bullet question

[Slickrick0999]

so, yes, I'm late to the 6.5cm game.
I'm trying to find a load and so far I have shot the following factory loads..
Hornady American Gunner = 1/2+ moa
Hornady 140 ELD Match over 1 months
And handloaded...
Hornady 140 bthp
142 smk

The hornady 140 bthp seems to run about 1/2 moa but not having much luck with the 142 smk's.

Was wondering if anyone had any advice on seating depth for the smk's?
Jump? How much?

I would like to take advantage of the higher BC but initially doesn't look good load at 2.805 oal (where the 140s run).

The SMK is longer BTOG so that is what I'm thinking on seating depth.

Also, what changes would I be looking at to try the 140. ELD bullet (which is longer still than the 142smk)?

Thanks in advance for the help,
Rick

 

[JMGlasgow]

Maybe try the Berger 140 hybrid. They aren't as finicky, and shot well through everything I trued them in. There's also the Berger 144.

 

[kriller134]

I'm jumping my 142s .033"

 

[Snuby642]

I have come to a conclusion that some barrels like a tangent ogive and some a secant ogive.

I spent a lot of time learning that recently. Don't fight it.

I discussed this friday with tech support at Berger and they confirm that.
Berger makes a vld your gun may like or the hybrid, sounds like a tangent round is out.

Don't send hundreds of rounds of the type your gun does not like, it will never eat them.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.

bergerbullets.com

I'm in the middle of trying this method for seating depth testing.

 

[918v]

so, yes, I'm late to the 6.5cm game.
I'm trying to find a load and so far I have shot the following factory loads..
Hornady American Gunner = 1/2+ moa
Hornady 140 ELD Match over 1 months
And handloaded...
Hornady 140 bthp
142 smk

The hornady 140 bthp seems to run about 1/2 moa but not having much luck with the 142 smk's.

Was wondering if anyone had any advice on seating depth for the smk's?
Jump? How much?

I would like to take advantage of the higher BC but initially doesn't look good load at 2.805 oal (where the 140s run).

The SMK is longer BTOG so that is what I'm thinking on seating depth.

Also, what changes would I be looking at to try the 140. ELD bullet (which is longer still than the 142smk)?

Thanks in advance for the help,
Rick

@ 2.780” in a 24” barrel at 2700 FPS

.070” jump

At 2600 FPS they like .045” jump

I tested all the other jump lengths in .005” increments and no bueno

 

[Snuby642]

This is all very enlightening.

My son has a ruger tactical 308.
The chamber is short and magazine as well.

I shoots 168 smk very well, and hates secant ogive bullets come to find out.

I was tasked to load an expanding round for medium game.

A jammed bullet is not practical and the mag lenght is problematic.

Finaly it dawned on me that 308 hunting rounds would be used at 400 yards and less in our case and many times 1/2 that.

Don't know why I burnt a couple of pounds of varget fighting this.

Slow learner I guess.

308 will shoot 600 plus yards with a tangent ogive and they are forgiving as to jump comparatively.

Guess maybe I should have gotten Brian litz's book after all.

Hybrids on order. Lol

 

[Billl223]

I'm working with the Hornady 140 ELD Match in a 24" Tikka. I had settled on 2.81 OAL but recently tried a variety of lengths up to 2.92. None of the long lengths looked promising but I did load up some more @ 2.83 to try.

 

[Slickrick0999]

I have come to a conclusion that some barrels like a tangent ogive and some a secant ogive.

I spent a lot of time learning that recently. Don't fight it.

I discussed this friday with tech support at Berger and they confirm that.
Berger makes a vld your gun may like or the hybrid, sounds like a tangent round is out.

Don't send hundreds of rounds of the type your gun does not like, it will never eat them.

This is where I'm at. Just shot some more 142s yesterday with .010 & .040 jump (already tried .070). The gun just doesn't like them.
The funny thing is I've been telling my buddy that his 6cm just didn't like a bullet he was trying and here I've done the same thing.
Just hanging up the 142s & going to load 140BTHP since it likes them & right around 2800fps

 

[Snuby642]

I think next new gun / chamber / length restriction I will do a quick tangent preference test.

Or maybe I learned enough to evaluate the situation better in the future.

At the least I have reevaluated my bullet requirements closer to reality.

Live and learn.

 

[Snuby642]

So it's off to load up my 11 cent bullets into my pristeen range brass on my progresive press.

And if I stay off here, shoot them in my 120$ 16 inch barrel.

First powder test with these.

Oal on these bullets was an amazing + .010 and - .010 and bto was +/- .008 .

Wonder if I can get 1 1/2 moa. Lol

 

[Average guy]

This is where I'm at. Just shot some more 142s yesterday with .010 & .040 jump (already tried .070). The gun just doesn't like them.
The funny thing is I've been telling my buddy that his 6cm just didn't like a bullet he was trying and here I've done the same thing.
Just hanging up the 142s & going to load 140BTHP since it likes them & right around 2800fps

Should be an easy switch over to eldm if you are so inclined. They seem to be just as forgiving as the 140 match for me.

 

[P7id10t]

Presumption is you've determined nodes for your optimal charge weights?

My experience is there is credence to some rifles not liking specific bullet profiles.
I've had bullets that would not group or shoot in my rifles, change the powder and then I'm humming sub-moa.
For example, could not get 168SMKs to shoot using 4064. Changed to N135 and I was 3/4 MOA.
Just did a test on bullets that calculate as unstable with my twist rate, and I was doing 1/8 and 3/16 MOA at 200.
Meanwhile, in that same rifle, I cannot get Berger VLD Hunters to shoot better than 2 MOA.
Someone gave me an ancient box of 308 120gr PSPs, and they wound up loading at 2.750 OAL (meaning big jump). I figured use them for trigger work plinking. My daughter consistently shot them 1/4 MOA or better out of a Savage FCP-SR.

 

[Steel head]

I’m a bit surprised the 142 isn’t doing well.
I’tve found them incredibly easy to develop a load for and tolerant of massive amounts of jump in all four of my 260 barrels
I’m a fan of the 140 BTHP, 140 eldm and 140 hybrid as well.

 

[Slickrick0999]

Presumption is you've determined nodes for your optimal charge weights?

My experience is there is credence to some rifles not liking specific bullet profiles.
I've had bullets that would not group or shoot in my rifles, change the powder and then I'm humming sub-moa.
For example, could not get 168SMKs to shoot using 4064. Changed to N135 and I was 3/4 MOA.
Just did a test on bullets that calculate as unstable with my twist rate, and I was doing 1/8 and 3/16 MOA at 200.
Meanwhile, in that same rifle, I cannot get Berger VLD Hunters to shoot better than 2 MOA.
Someone gave me an ancient box of 308 120gr PSPs, and they wound up loading at 2.750 OAL (meaning big jump). I figured use them for trigger work plinking. My daughter consistently shot them 1/4 MOA or better out of a Savage FCP-SR.

Yes sir, did charge work up for node with both the 140 bthp & 143 smk

 

[Slickrick0999]

I’m a bit surprised the 142 isn’t doing well.
I’tve found them incredibly easy to develop a load for and tolerant of massive amounts of jump in all four of my 260 barrels

I was wanting to shoot them, the group with .070 jump looked like 2 groups with the horizontal. .010 shot one groupish looking thing & then 4 in about half moa with one out that made it over 1. The .040 not much better. By the way, .010 jump was almost all my mag could handle (with binder plate)
Just think I'll run the 140s and see what I can tune in with them. First batch loaded with about .078 jump was mag spec length and have plenty of room to work with them.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I shot a bunch of factory looking for what shot best and simply could not find a consistent winner....so I settled on 147 gr. ELD-M's and when I started hand loading I used them and RL26 - 47 gr. of RL 26 and loading them to factory OAL with CCI Primers. 2860 FPS. I tried all manner of OAL and distance off the lands and none of it made much difference. Never hand loaded any other bullets as the factory ammunition never gave me any advantage over the Horbady 147 gr. ELD-M's but I'm sure every gun and barrel will make it's own demands.

VooDoo

 

[918v]

I was wanting to shoot them, the group with .070 jump looked like 2 groups with the horizontal. .010 shot one groupish looking thing & then 4 in about half moa with one out that made it over 1. The .040 not much better. By the way, .010 jump was almost all my mag could handle (with binder plate)
Just think I'll run the 140s and see what I can tune in with them. First batch loaded with about .078 jump was mag spec length and have plenty of room to work with them.

what is your COAL at .070” off

 

[Slickrick0999]

what is your COAL at .070” off

IIRC...it was right around 2.805... I'll have to look at it.

 

[918v]

Try 2.780”

 

[Slickrick0999]

Try 2.780”

So you think a bigger jump might help I'm assuming?
Just curious as to why that number.

 

[918v]

I read about it on the internet. Really I did. Some guy claimed he called Sierra and they recommended it. It’s also working for me. It may work for you. I frequently use loads where bullets jump in excess of .1” with awesom accuracy. Try doing it by COAL vs jump using seater stem adjustment only.

 

[Slickrick0999]

I read about it on the internet. Really I did. Some guy claimed he called Sierra and they recommended it. It’s also working for me. It may work for you. I frequently use loads where bullets jump in excess of .1” with awesom accuracy. Try doing it by COAL vs jump using seater stem adjustment only.

Cool. I have a few more left & might as well try. I write down COAL & BTOG every time anyway so won't be an issue.
Thanks

 

[Slickrick0999]

Well, I forgot about this thread. Got really frustrated with the 6.5, bought a motorcycle, played with it, sold it, bought another motorcycle, and yeah...I chase chickens & squirrels.
So, after 700 rounds of testing and crap, I think I had a bad barrel. I know, sounds like an excuse but we cleaned it down to Shiney new metal. I mean I put everything in / thru it I had. 20 rounds later, copper fouled looking like racing stripes.
Pulled the barrel, bought a bartlien blank, chambered it and...well...should have done that a long time ago.
We did learn some cool stuff about load development.
FPS / powder charge testing (we do 2 rounds at each load) to find node.
Seating depth testing is done differently. If you haven't seen Erik Cortina's "the lands don't matter " video, check it out.
Since I'm running a mag, just started there and found where I wasn't jamming and moved back first in 0.005" increments to find a "node" and then fine tuned it.
I did try out a tuner/brake and I am a fan now (your mileage may vary).
Anyway, I've got hornady 140 bthp & eld bullets shooting 0.4 & under now.
I may revisit the 142's but man, a good barrel makes a difference, wish I hadn't wasted so much on the first one.

 

[Baron23]

Well, I forgot about this thread. Got really frustrated with the 6.5, bought a motorcycle, played with it, sold it, bought another motorcycle, and yeah...I chase chickens & squirrels.
So, after 700 rounds of testing and crap, I think I had a bad barrel. I know, sounds like an excuse but we cleaned it down to Shiney new metal. I mean I put everything in / thru it I had. 20 rounds later, copper fouled looking like racing stripes.
Pulled the barrel, bought a bartlien blank, chambered it and...well...should have done that a long time ago.
We did learn some cool stuff about load development.
FPS / powder charge testing (we do 2 rounds at each load) to find node.
Seating depth testing is done differently. If you haven't seen Erik Cortina's "the lands don't matter " video, check it out.
Since I'm running a mag, just started there and found where I wasn't jamming and moved back first in 0.005" increments to find a "node" and then fine tuned it.
I did try out a tuner/brake and I am a fan now (your mileage may vary).
Anyway, I've got hornady 140 bthp & eld bullets shooting 0.4 & under now.
I may revisit the 142's but man, a good barrel makes a difference, wish I hadn't wasted so much on the first one.

What manf was the first barrel, please?

 

[Slickrick0999]

What manf was the first barrel, please?

Sir, I just prefer to not publish that info on the interweb. I should have caught it earlier, that's on me. Once I switched to Bartlein, everything started working and making sense. The problem with the other barrel was that nothing made sense, one day this bullet would do good the next it wouldn't and a different bullet that wasn't shooting before would. Data just didn't have consistent results. Once we chambered the Bartlein and put it on, I could build on data from one day to the next and development was easy.