Anybody runnin' 'em? Interested in thoughts on pros/cons versus the heavier 139-142gr offerings. Also loads/velocities for 260 Rem. Thanks.....
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
- Thread starter overgunned
- Start date
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
I'm running them in my 6.5x47L, out of a Rockcreek barrel at 2920-2930AVGfps. I really like them, they are super accurate, and its only taking me about 28MOA or less to get to 1000y (conditions dependent) I ran the numbers on all other bullets that I could use and there didn't seem to be much of an advantage for the others considering the velocity i would be able to push them. Also they don't mind to be jumped into the lands. (jumping mine about 15thousandths)
I was looking onto the 130bergers as well but most everybody said they had to be jammed to get them to shoot. I wouldn't want to jam bullets in a tactical type rifle.
I'm running them in my 6.5x47L, out of a Rockcreek barrel at 2920-2930AVGfps. I really like them, they are super accurate, and its only taking me about 28MOA or less to get to 1000y (conditions dependent) I ran the numbers on all other bullets that I could use and there didn't seem to be much of an advantage for the others considering the velocity i would be able to push them. Also they don't mind to be jumped into the lands. (jumping mine about 15thousandths)
I was looking onto the 130bergers as well but most everybody said they had to be jammed to get them to shoot. I wouldn't want to jam bullets in a tactical type rifle.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shadow4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I ran the numbers on all other bullets that I could use and there didn't seem to be much of an advantage for the others considering the velocity i would be able to push them.</div></div>
This was my thoughts exactly. I was figgerin' on trying to push 'em out @ 3000fps out of a 26" Krieger 260 Rem. I don't mind having to single feed rounds for my prone matches, but I thought the 123s may be able to be seated out farther and still fit in the mag as well. I ordered a couple hundred from Sinclair.
Thanks.
Anybody else?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shadow4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I ran the numbers on all other bullets that I could use and there didn't seem to be much of an advantage for the others considering the velocity i would be able to push them.</div></div>
This was my thoughts exactly. I was figgerin' on trying to push 'em out @ 3000fps out of a 26" Krieger 260 Rem. I don't mind having to single feed rounds for my prone matches, but I thought the 123s may be able to be seated out farther and still fit in the mag as well. I ordered a couple hundred from Sinclair.
Thanks.
Anybody else?
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
I guess I'm gonna try the 123 Scenars first and see how I like them. They are not a bad idea though. May give them a shot also. Happy b-day......
I guess I'm gonna try the 123 Scenars first and see how I like them. They are not a bad idea though. May give them a shot also. Happy b-day......
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
My Savage's favorite.
I'm running the 123's with H4350 at 2950-70[IIRC] with good brass life.
If I do my part the load will stay in the .3's.
I highly recommend H4350 even if you decide to go to the 139-142 range.
FWIW
YMMV
wes in AZ
My Savage's favorite.
I'm running the 123's with H4350 at 2950-70[IIRC] with good brass life.
If I do my part the load will stay in the .3's.
I highly recommend H4350 even if you decide to go to the 139-142 range.
FWIW
YMMV
wes in AZ
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
Thanks. What tube length? I'm lookin' at 3000 as the magical number out of my 26".
I have a lot of powders on hand. IMR4350, but no H4350. Was also thinkin' R-17 might do nicely.......
Thanks. What tube length? I'm lookin' at 3000 as the magical number out of my 26".
I have a lot of powders on hand. IMR4350, but no H4350. Was also thinkin' R-17 might do nicely.......
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
I'm running the 123s in a 6.5 Creedmoor - my thought was to make a "hot" 6.5 lapua out of the deal with cheaper components.
43.2 grains of 4350 - it seems pretty hot, buy I'm only getting 2850 out of a 25" tube - this is a true .5 moa load - I once shot a 3 stings of 3 shots at 800 yards in under 4" at a compettion - they were even in the middle of the target.
I'm running the 123s in a 6.5 Creedmoor - my thought was to make a "hot" 6.5 lapua out of the deal with cheaper components.
43.2 grains of 4350 - it seems pretty hot, buy I'm only getting 2850 out of a 25" tube - this is a true .5 moa load - I once shot a 3 stings of 3 shots at 800 yards in under 4" at a compettion - they were even in the middle of the target.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
I'll twist up some with 4350, some with 4831 sc, and some with.....? Don't have any R-17 on hand........
I'll twist up some with 4350, some with 4831 sc, and some with.....? Don't have any R-17 on hand........
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks. What tube length? I'm lookin' at 3000 as the magical number out of my 26".
I have a lot of powders on hand. IMR4350, but no H4350. Was also thinkin' R-17 might do nicely....... </div></div>
Mine's a 24"..seems to run fast.
I've got a couple of notes from Boots Obermyer that the 'sweet spot' for the 123's is at the 2950-2975 mark[IIRC]. Works for me!
On the 4350....H and I are not close to the same in my rifles.
H4350 is much more temp stable [I'm in AZ at 110* PLUS !] and has always given better vels. and accuracy than the IMR4350.
YMMV.... but the H deserves a looking at IMO.
wes out
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks. What tube length? I'm lookin' at 3000 as the magical number out of my 26".
I have a lot of powders on hand. IMR4350, but no H4350. Was also thinkin' R-17 might do nicely....... </div></div>
Mine's a 24"..seems to run fast.
I've got a couple of notes from Boots Obermyer that the 'sweet spot' for the 123's is at the 2950-2975 mark[IIRC]. Works for me!
On the 4350....H and I are not close to the same in my rifles.
H4350 is much more temp stable [I'm in AZ at 110* PLUS !] and has always given better vels. and accuracy than the IMR4350.
YMMV.... but the H deserves a looking at IMO.
wes out
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
Anything Boots says, I'll listen.
I've run a lot of IMR 4350 inj my 7-08 and it has been good in the cold weather so far. Hot weather is not an issue. Thanks.....
Anything Boots says, I'll listen.
I've run a lot of IMR 4350 inj my 7-08 and it has been good in the cold weather so far. Hot weather is not an issue. Thanks.....
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody runnin' 'em? Interested in thoughts on pros/cons versus the heavier 139-142gr offerings. Also loads/velocities for 260 Rem. Thanks..... </div></div>
I have been shooting the 123 and 139 Scenars and the 130 and 140 Bergers back and forth over the past year in my 6.5x47 to see which shoots the best. So far the Scenars have shot better than the Bergers by a substantial amount. The only reason I keep trying the Bergers is that I can also hunt with their bullets (I prefer to hunt with what I shoot @ the range). The 123 Scenar shoots better than the 139 Scenar, but not by much. If you run the #'s, the lighter bullets pretty much make up for the lost BC with the gained speed--the biggest downside is lost energy @ distance if you plan on hunting with them. I think I'm going to stay with the Scenars from this point forward and try them on a few deer and/or pigs to see how they perform.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody runnin' 'em? Interested in thoughts on pros/cons versus the heavier 139-142gr offerings. Also loads/velocities for 260 Rem. Thanks..... </div></div>
I have been shooting the 123 and 139 Scenars and the 130 and 140 Bergers back and forth over the past year in my 6.5x47 to see which shoots the best. So far the Scenars have shot better than the Bergers by a substantial amount. The only reason I keep trying the Bergers is that I can also hunt with their bullets (I prefer to hunt with what I shoot @ the range). The 123 Scenar shoots better than the 139 Scenar, but not by much. If you run the #'s, the lighter bullets pretty much make up for the lost BC with the gained speed--the biggest downside is lost energy @ distance if you plan on hunting with them. I think I'm going to stay with the Scenars from this point forward and try them on a few deer and/or pigs to see how they perform.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
I would be interested in hearing those reults.
I don't hunt much with any of my heavy guns, the ones with A5s on them and such. I have plenty of others that weigh half as much. Couple of "tweeners" also that come in around 9-10lbs.
I will run 123s first before I try anything else. A-maxes would work well for deer/hogs, methinks. Thicker jacket........
I would be interested in hearing those reults.
I don't hunt much with any of my heavy guns, the ones with A5s on them and such. I have plenty of others that weigh half as much. Couple of "tweeners" also that come in around 9-10lbs.
I will run 123s first before I try anything else. A-maxes would work well for deer/hogs, methinks. Thicker jacket........
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
Just started working up some loads yesterday in my 6.5x47L. 25" Krieger 8 twist on a Surgeon action w/ bushed firing pin.
Background: My first loads for this rifle were with 130gr Berger VLD's. They are damn accurate with 37.5gr Varget, CCI 450 primers .010 into the lands. But I haven't been able get up into the 2900 fps range -2825fps is what I got - which is fine considering the accuracy. I shot this load out to 1250 on steel two weeks ago and it was dead on for my JBM Chart. Although I need more practice beyond 900yds, and a target a little larger than 8-9" because the wind tunnels to the target where I shoot. This load is not a slouch and if I ever decide to hunt with this rifle these are the bullets I'd choose.
After this load I ran some charts on the 123 Scenar, and saw no real BC benefit to the 130+grainers for long distance if I could get the speed up on the 123's. JBM showed less drop and drift.
Yesterday I loaded up some test rounds starting at 37.7gr Varget, up to 38.6 - perfect load test day at 104* with heat index of 108 and 38% hum, if I'm going to see pressure signs both physical and chrony it will show in these temps. I loaded up 5 rounds of each, with two different bullet seating options - .002 into the lands and .002 off. 38.3gr Varget got me to 3015fps seated into the lands .002 with new brass, neck tension of .288. This is the speed which is near the edge of where I've read many folks started to lose accuracy actually anything above about 3020. Most reported high accuracy nodes that I've read and heard from other shooters tend to be between 2900 and below 3020. I still need to dial in the load somewhere between 38.1 - 38.4gr, CCI 450 primers. <span style="font-weight: bold"> NOTE: START LOWER THAN THIS it's safe in my rifle and chamber but may not be in yours.</span> Start somewhere around 37.5 or 37.7 if using Varget.
H4350 is another good powder but speeds are lower IME and will take 40-41.5gr to accomplish the same thing Varget will accomplish. Other good powders are RL17 and RL15 - although I don't like temp sensitivity so I avoid RL powders.
Hope this helped somewhat. You've got a little more case capacity to work with, so speeds will be up there a bit more for .260. Also 4350 will probably be the best powder choice for you unless running 140-142's then 4831SC might be the better option.
Just started working up some loads yesterday in my 6.5x47L. 25" Krieger 8 twist on a Surgeon action w/ bushed firing pin.
Background: My first loads for this rifle were with 130gr Berger VLD's. They are damn accurate with 37.5gr Varget, CCI 450 primers .010 into the lands. But I haven't been able get up into the 2900 fps range -2825fps is what I got - which is fine considering the accuracy. I shot this load out to 1250 on steel two weeks ago and it was dead on for my JBM Chart. Although I need more practice beyond 900yds, and a target a little larger than 8-9" because the wind tunnels to the target where I shoot. This load is not a slouch and if I ever decide to hunt with this rifle these are the bullets I'd choose.
After this load I ran some charts on the 123 Scenar, and saw no real BC benefit to the 130+grainers for long distance if I could get the speed up on the 123's. JBM showed less drop and drift.
Yesterday I loaded up some test rounds starting at 37.7gr Varget, up to 38.6 - perfect load test day at 104* with heat index of 108 and 38% hum, if I'm going to see pressure signs both physical and chrony it will show in these temps. I loaded up 5 rounds of each, with two different bullet seating options - .002 into the lands and .002 off. 38.3gr Varget got me to 3015fps seated into the lands .002 with new brass, neck tension of .288. This is the speed which is near the edge of where I've read many folks started to lose accuracy actually anything above about 3020. Most reported high accuracy nodes that I've read and heard from other shooters tend to be between 2900 and below 3020. I still need to dial in the load somewhere between 38.1 - 38.4gr, CCI 450 primers. <span style="font-weight: bold"> NOTE: START LOWER THAN THIS it's safe in my rifle and chamber but may not be in yours.</span> Start somewhere around 37.5 or 37.7 if using Varget.
H4350 is another good powder but speeds are lower IME and will take 40-41.5gr to accomplish the same thing Varget will accomplish. Other good powders are RL17 and RL15 - although I don't like temp sensitivity so I avoid RL powders.
Hope this helped somewhat. You've got a little more case capacity to work with, so speeds will be up there a bit more for .260. Also 4350 will probably be the best powder choice for you unless running 140-142's then 4831SC might be the better option.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
H4350 is another good powder but speeds are lower IME and will take 40-41.5gr to accomplish the same thing Varget will accomplish. Other good powders are RL17 and RL15 - although I don't like temp sensitivity so I avoid RL powders.
</div></div>
RL-17 is SUPPOSED to be much less temperature sensitive; much like Hodgdon's Extreme powders.
Alliant's info
Other thread on Sniper's Hide with addional info
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
H4350 is another good powder but speeds are lower IME and will take 40-41.5gr to accomplish the same thing Varget will accomplish. Other good powders are RL17 and RL15 - although I don't like temp sensitivity so I avoid RL powders.
</div></div>
RL-17 is SUPPOSED to be much less temperature sensitive; much like Hodgdon's Extreme powders.
Alliant's info
Other thread on Sniper's Hide with addional info
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
You'll experience less pressure with 17 and using Optimal Charge Weight method of load development, you'll find the load that is NOT temp sensitive.
You'll experience less pressure with 17 and using Optimal Charge Weight method of load development, you'll find the load that is NOT temp sensitive.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 244</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
H4350 is another good powder but speeds are lower IME and will take 40-41.5gr to accomplish the same thing Varget will accomplish. Other good powders are RL17 and RL15 - although I don't like temp sensitivity so I avoid RL powders.
</div></div>
RL-17 is SUPPOSED to be much less temperature sensitive; much like Hodgdon's Extreme powders.
Alliant's info
Other thread on Sniper's Hide with addional info
</div></div>
The key words there are "SUPPOSED TO BE" many folks would disagree with that statement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 244</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
H4350 is another good powder but speeds are lower IME and will take 40-41.5gr to accomplish the same thing Varget will accomplish. Other good powders are RL17 and RL15 - although I don't like temp sensitivity so I avoid RL powders.
</div></div>
RL-17 is SUPPOSED to be much less temperature sensitive; much like Hodgdon's Extreme powders.
Alliant's info
Other thread on Sniper's Hide with addional info
</div></div>
The key words there are "SUPPOSED TO BE" many folks would disagree with that statement.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
Whenever I rebarrel, I'll go with a 8.5 twist. The difference in velocity with the 123's and 130's makes up for the BC difference with the heavier projo's.
I'd hunt with the VLD's because I recovered some that missed my steel and hit the dirt at 833 and they look really nice.
Whenever I rebarrel, I'll go with a 8.5 twist. The difference in velocity with the 123's and 130's makes up for the BC difference with the heavier projo's.
I'd hunt with the VLD's because I recovered some that missed my steel and hit the dirt at 833 and they look really nice.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
I run a 26" Krieger 8 twist also. The 123's shoot very VERY well.
The load is 39.8 of RL-15, 7-08 WIN brass, BR2 primers. Velocity from my barrel that has about 2400 rounds down the tube is 2880 fps, with an extreme spread of 15 fps. As always start low. I also recommend the ladder method to find the sweet spot.
I run a 26" Krieger 8 twist also. The 123's shoot very VERY well.
The load is 39.8 of RL-15, 7-08 WIN brass, BR2 primers. Velocity from my barrel that has about 2400 rounds down the tube is 2880 fps, with an extreme spread of 15 fps. As always start low. I also recommend the ladder method to find the sweet spot.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
I just built another 6.5 CM 28" Krieger 8.5 5R.
123 Scenars and 39.2 of Varget is getting 2985 fps and very accurate.
I used a Pacific Tool 123 short throat reamer, coal 2.775" .0010 into the lands.
I just built another 6.5 CM 28" Krieger 8.5 5R.
123 Scenars and 39.2 of Varget is getting 2985 fps and very accurate.
I used a Pacific Tool 123 short throat reamer, coal 2.775" .0010 into the lands.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
Alan
The day I took the reading it was 86 degrees.
The same load with Lapua 243 brass averaged 2922 fps and E/S of 21 fps.
Alan
The day I took the reading it was 86 degrees.
The same load with Lapua 243 brass averaged 2922 fps and E/S of 21 fps.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
That's the stuff I've been lookin' for. thanks, guys.
I bought 100 Remmy cases, but may eventually neck down 308 Lapua, or neck up 243 Lapua, have both. Also have lots of R-15 and Varget on hand.......
That's the stuff I've been lookin' for. thanks, guys.
I bought 100 Remmy cases, but may eventually neck down 308 Lapua, or neck up 243 Lapua, have both. Also have lots of R-15 and Varget on hand.......
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
I am on my 3rd barrel with my 260 and just had another one built. I have shot about all the bullets in my rifles and the 123s Lapuas are now my bullet of choice.
My old gun loves H4350 and so does my son and soninlaws 260s. They all shoot the same load. My new gun loves Varget and the 123s.
I have tried RL 17 in my old gun and it shot 123s into .3s and .4s at 2994FPS average. I only load tested with it and never went back to it because I have a lot of H4350 and Varget. Hope this helps!!
I use 308 Lapua necked down in one gun and Winchester 7mm-08 brass in the other. Both work great!!! The problem with the Lapua brass is the neck is thicker and even neck turning it I still get to much bullet tension for my liking. I just ordered a inside neck reamer after measuring my cases the other night. The Lapua cases are at least .003 tighter for neck tension.
I am on my 3rd barrel with my 260 and just had another one built. I have shot about all the bullets in my rifles and the 123s Lapuas are now my bullet of choice.
My old gun loves H4350 and so does my son and soninlaws 260s. They all shoot the same load. My new gun loves Varget and the 123s.
I have tried RL 17 in my old gun and it shot 123s into .3s and .4s at 2994FPS average. I only load tested with it and never went back to it because I have a lot of H4350 and Varget. Hope this helps!!
I use 308 Lapua necked down in one gun and Winchester 7mm-08 brass in the other. Both work great!!! The problem with the Lapua brass is the neck is thicker and even neck turning it I still get to much bullet tension for my liking. I just ordered a inside neck reamer after measuring my cases the other night. The Lapua cases are at least .003 tighter for neck tension.
Re: 6.5mm 123gr Scenars?
Good info. Maybe I will do the 7-08 Win Brass thing instead. I really do not want to turn case necks.
Thanks much.......
Good info. Maybe I will do the 7-08 Win Brass thing instead. I really do not want to turn case necks.
Thanks much.......
