*6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

[Wheres-Waldo]

Going to start a profile/load journal/database/info thread for this cartridge seeing as I haven't seen anyone else shooting this anywhere.

Cartridge and Chamber Profile.
6.5x47 Lapua on left, Fire-Formed case on right

Chamber Blueprint

6.5x47 Lapua Imp. .292" Neck
26" Lawton 6 Groove 1-8" LER Contour - M2008 Action
All metal (including chamber and bore) IonBonded

2011/05/04
Fire-Form lot of 99 virgin cases

Primer pockets uniformed
Necks turned .2895"
CCIBR4
RL15 - 35.0 Gr
Berger 140 VLD (26401)
Seated .20" into lands (Headspace off of bullet)

80*F/55% Humidity/11m Elevation

No velocity data capable of being produced.
Zero at 100 yards, .5 Mils up to 222 yards.

.4 - .6 MOA 10 shot groups
Heavy cratering and blown primers on the majority of cases.
Sharp shoulders

 

[adkmtnman]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

I've just learned of this cartidge and now want something chambered in it bad...

Is anyone offering it in a lineup of the standard chamberings (6.5x47 lapua)?
what is the 6.5x47 lapua originaly derived from? not a .308 necked down to 6.5??

 

[fredjake1]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

I am also very interested in this caliber. I am a big fan of the 6.5 x 47. Any and all imformation would be appreciated.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Some more information from the range today.

Lapua Brass, FireFormed, necks @ 2.89 with .002 tension
RL17
CCI BR4 (E28R)
Berger 140 VLD at 2.7" OAL .002 off lands

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">101 F/ 48% Humidity - Barrel Temp between 145-165 F</span></span>Chrony 10' from muzzle
Prone - 100 Meters


ALL GROUPS ARE OUTSIDE TO OUTSIDE EDGE
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">38 Gr. RL17
Avg. 2681-10 ES 48</span></span>
2652 2686
2691 2700
2686 2668
2679 2690
2662 2696

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">38.5 Gr. RL17
Avg. 2696-10 ES 88</span></span>
2746 2750
2691 2700
2686 2668
2679 2690
2662 2696

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">39 Gr. RL17
Inconclusive</span></span>
1962 2659
1972 2656
1968 2656
2554 2650
2557 2675
(Fucked Speeds I know)

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">39.5 Gr. RL17
Avg. 2840-20 ES 66</span></span>
2826 2844 2875 2824
2835 2812 2843 2833
2821 2847 2846 2855
2850 2851 2856 2819
2811 2850 2877 2838

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">40 Gr. RL17
Avg. 2893-20 ES 96</span></span>
2914 2956 2865 2900
2860 2894 2898 2903
2874 2891 2912 2912
2863 2892 2900 2899
2907 2883 2867 2889

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">40.5 Gr. RL17
Avg. 2951-20 ES 67</span></span>
2974 2961 2907 2965
2963 2963 2960 2965
2960 2967 2948 2971
2940 2965 2930 2935
2950 2921 2921 2967

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">41 Gr. RL17 (Bottom Right-Hand Group)
Avg. 2984-5 ES 62</span></span>
2985
3012
2965
3012
2950

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

More work between 38 - 39 Grains next week hopefully.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

20110903

More work at 38.0 38.5 and 39.0 Gr. RL17
91F/61% Humidity

Lapua Brass, FireFormed, necks @ 2.89 with .002 tension
3rd Firing
RL17
CCI BR4 (E28R)
Berger 140 VLD at 2.7" OAL .002 off lands

All velocities coencide with what is posted above, so they will not be reposted.
All work was done at <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">225 yards</span> </span>in the prone.

Targets with multiple grain values were running as fast as I could comfortably shoot. 2nd set of speed runs was using 10 shot groups.

38.0 gr RL17 for Accuracy

38.5 gr RL17 for Accuracy

39 gr RL17 for Accuracy

Speed Runs #1

Speed Runs #2

All 3 loads shot today have an average grouping size of 1.6" or ~ .7 MOA and roughly .1 Mil variation in POA/POI between them.
I was hoping for one load to stand out in particular, but I guess Im going to go with 38.5 as my go-to load... allowing for .5 variation in load or atmospheric's of equal value.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

20110904

Lot of 100 cases (3x fired) annealed via induction method.

6 seconds inside coil produces between 700* - 800* at the neck and shoulder. Less than 450* from .25" below shoulder to web of cases.

No color on cases.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

20110905

Zero for 38.5 gr load
Shit & Giggle drills

Warming up at 100 yds... the left most target should be a testament to Jacobs' cleaning method and Iosso... Cold clean bore was right in there with the rest of them.

.5 Mils to 200 yards, and 225 didnt seem like it was too far off, atleast not for me.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Shot these 2 hum-dingers yesterday (bottom left and bottom right) 100 yards
top right/middle is the lady friend on her first eve gun-handling adventure.

.25" and .3" CTC

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

What I learned in Class - Thanks John

I thought this was a pretty neat idea that can kind of be incorperated into ones litte dope-tags or whatever they use when shooting at multiple ranges.

As far as shooting steel goes, you can map out what I was taught is called a "complementary range"
(dope dialed for one distance, but still able to make hits on X size steel at X range w/o holds or dialing)

I just took my dope-cards and added in inches dropped for 2 fairly close ranges (as a complementary range diminishes big-time out past 300 yards)

Color code your dope for common sized steel... here we have complementary ranges for....
4" = Green
6' = Yellow
8" = Red

(Inches dropped must be less than 1/2 target size (for inclination or declination in path of flight)).

Anyway, heres the finished product... Just need to laminate and attach!

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Ammunition Profile:

Case: Lapua
Ultrasonic cleaning half n' half vinegar/water-boiling + drop o' soap.
Dry/tumble
Anneal 10 sec. per case (preheat induction coil)
Trim to length - 1.850"
Neck expanded
Neck size only - .287" bushing (.002" tension)
CCI BR4 Primer
38.5 gr. RL-17 (91.5% case capacity w/ 140Gr. Target VLD .002" off lands)
Berger 140 Grain Target VLD .001" off lands

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">2720 FPS ES 22 FPS</span></span>

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

2011/11/06
99 Rounds - Standard Load

Temp - 55F* - 70F* (Dope shift of .1 mil in BulletFlight)
Hum - ~48%
Stat. Pres - 30.04

507 yds - 3.2 mil
655 yds - 4.7 mil
716 yds - 5.4 mil
817 yds - 6.7 mil

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

20111121
1223
77 F*
59.2%
30.21 Stat Pres.
98 rounds

Standard Load - (Picked up ALOT of speed??? Culled 1 round to confirm charge weight... right where it should be at 38.5 Gr... Not sure what to make of this?)

Old speed was 2695 (only from 5 rounds though) but data seemed to meld smoothly with that speed, coming from BulletFlight.

Speed Avg. over 60 rounds.
2787 2835 2861 2829 2840 2813 - 16965
2846 2822 2807 2819 2822 2825 - 16941
2805 2820 2822 2819 2807 2828 - 16901
2813 2816 2841 2811 2807 2814 - 16902
2799 2813 2825 2830 2813 2807 - 16887
2815 2836 2809 2791 2782 2828 - 16861
2818 2806 2806 2801 2828 2759 - 16819
2772 2794 2782 2804 2800 2798 - 16773
2826 2805 2857 2768 2782 2789 - 16827
2806 2829 2854 2765 2831 2780 - 16865
Avg Velocity - 2812 FPS

Notice how Avg. velocity drops per string as the gun heats up, then picks back up as the gun starts to cool.

The first 42 rounds were 2 21 shot dot drills, shot in ~ 5 minutes time each.

Then 3 5 round bolt manipulation drills shot in about 20 seconds each.

2 5 round groups in there also

Know your limits drill

All shot at 100 meters/prone.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

2011-12-04
75F*
35% Humidity
30.26 Stat-Pres

Mount Olive, NC
99 Rounds

Established an RCBS chronograph and a Chrony have about 90 FPS difference between them when measuring the same bullet.

RCBS put me ABOUT where I though I originaly was...

2723 2713
2723 2731
2714 2729
2718 2719
2718 2709

Avg - 2720
ES - 22
SD - 7

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Going to try to bump up my speed to as
close to 2850 FPS as possible and maintain
good accuracy (.5MOA or better).

Loaded up the fallowing
17 - 39.7 gr RL17
10 - 37 gr RL15
10 - 37.5 gr RL15
10 - 38 gr RL15
10 - 38.5 gr RL15
10 - 39 gr RL15

All with BR4's and 140 VLD's at .001" off
the lands. Will be shooting 10 round groups
at 225 for accuracy and speed this weekend.

 

[casey mcdowell]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Keep me up dated! In the process of getting
mine built.

 

[Jedi]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

In my standard 6.5x47 case
140berger vld
41.5 re17 rocked

As your running an AI case, your loads seem all on light side
91.5% case fill? is not ideal

Vlds like to be jammed
my OAL was 2.800, .010 jam

My suggestion is load until you find max via ejector wipe etc, that way you will know your upper ceiling

123 scenar 42.5 re17
20" barrel 3023fps

140 berger vld 41.5 re17
2973fps 30" barrel

both loads shoot sub MOA

Try finding your upper limit then work backwards to accurate node

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Jedi,

Im not going to jam my VLD's due to the fact that I need the ability to remove a loaded round if needed.

I did find accuracy at around 2840 FPS with RL15 but its not anything that would shoot more accurately than my old load.

I do realize that an Imp. case will lend itself to more speed, but ask anyone I shoot with regularly, I'm more for barrel conservation at a reasonable speed (2720 FPS was/is my go to load w/ 140 VLD's). Frustration with wind and my lack of experience shooting in it is what was driving me for a faster load, but I dont think speed is the definative answer to wind.
It does help, but if you cant shoot in the wind, speed isn't going to fix that problem for you.

Part of me wants to go continue using my old load after watching MAGPUL - Art of Precision Rifle... Running a 20" .308 at 1K+ with FGMM in 8-12 MPH winds with constant value changes. The only thing that lets them do that is the ability to read accurately and to hold for wind.

I think I'm going to stay where I'm at and focus more on my ability to shoot in the wind than try to beat it with speed.

 

[casey mcdowell]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Where's Waldo? I'm waiting on him to put some more stuff on
here. He has good info!

 

[Jedi]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

.010 jam extracts just fine, pert simple to adjust neck tension to correct issue if it dont.

Your fighting against preferred operating envelope of bullet

Your velocity is not high enough to take advantage of the higher BC of the 140 VLD, you will have better results with 130 or 123gr bullet. Run it Thru QL etc your gaining nothing by running a 140 @ that velocity.

General rule of thumb
Sub 22" barrel run 123 bullets
24 n 26 run 130
28 and longer 140

Velocity is required to utilize BC of heavy bullets, a lighter bullet going faster negates that BC advantage

Run data thru QL etc and it will validate that statement

Based on your velocity you may in fact be best served by a 123, but your not getting any advantage from the 140 period

Barrels are consumables, your thought process here is flawed
The extra barrel life is nominal compared to not realizing the full potential of your rifle with correct loads

Not bustin ya balls trying to help ya out

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Jedi,

Don't worry about me, you aren't the only one trying to convince me to pack on some more speed.

I went with BulletFlight as I'm fluent with it and it's fast and easy enough to use. Compared to my load, a 123 gr Scenar at the same speed has identical dope, and a 130 VLD takes .6 MIL more at 1K.

Maybe once I suck up the other 700 140 VLDs I have sitting on my shelf I will switch over to the 123 Scenar. That's pretty surprising actually. New bullet means more load development though

I just want to load whats working for me and go shoot stuff!

It's such a contrasting idea when compared to my mentality a few years ago, I was more than happy to tinker, and I never had a load I was really happy to settle on... Look at me now, set in my ways.

You guys and peer pressure.

 

[casey mcdowell]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Jedi,

Do you know a load that's dead nuts and drops deer in their tracks?
No one can seem to tell me if the 6 or 6.5x47 will kill deer at long range.

 

[Jedi]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

Shot placement not load = DRT

both the 6 n 6.5x47 will take deer as far as you are capable of making kill shot
The limiting factor here is the shooter not the cartridge or load.
IF you asking for load specifics then i need more detail
barrel length
bullet
powder

type of game you intend to hunt
still ya could hit the search function

 

[6.5x47]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

I pushed my -47 up to 43.5 gr of Rel 17 and Fed 205m primers, hitting 3021 fps before I got a "hint" of bolt lift. Temp was 41 deg F. This from a 26" 1:8 Broughton. I settled on 42.1 gr for 2950 fps and 1/2 MOA groups out to as far as I've tried; 1137 yds. You "CAN" push it further if your rifle tells you it can. Oh, and this is with 140 VLD's.

6.5x47

 

[texote]

Re: *6.5x47 Lapua Improved Loads* - Journal

where can you find dies for it?

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

You have to have them cut from die blanks as I haven't been able to find commercially produced dies.

 

[BigJim375]

Tag for reference. Good stuff here.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Set the barrel back .0625 today after 8K rounds.
Substantial velocity drop... Took an additional mil to get on target at 1K, accuracy was still very good.

Throat was burnt pretty bad but I got most of it out.
Will try my 38.5 grain load, if that doesn't seem to do well, I'll redevelop and see how long she lasts.

You would be amazed how much a chamber grows in 8,000 rounds. A fire formed case was used to set headspace & prior to running it through a body die, it took a pair of vice grips to remove it! Durring the chambering process was the only time I've ever had to use my body die, only ever neck sized for this barrel.

Will report back with load development.