6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

[our gang]

We all know that loading data for the 6.5x55 is held low due to the type 96 Mausers. Lets forget them and see what you think of my theory.

1. The 6.5x55 holds more powder than the 260 Remington.

2. There are modern 6.5x55s made (Remington, Winchester, SAKO, Tikka, CZ and probably more.

3. So we have a cartridge (6.5x55) that has more powder capacity than the 260, that is available in actions the same as the 260, yet loading data is lower. just to pick two:
6.5x55 142 SMK 43.7 gr H4350 gives 2653 fps
260 Rem 142 SMK 44.5 H4350 gives 2735 fps

4. While I am not a ballistics expert, I know that bigger cases give more velocity with the same bullets and other variable held constant.

5. Just for grins I filled both cases (fired) with W760, a nice dense powder. 6.5x55 57 gr, 260 53 gr. The 6.5x55 has a slightly longer neck so effective powder capacity (loaded ammo) should favor it even more. But, we have at least 7.5% more in the 6.5x55

6. So here's my theory: A 6.5x55 in a modern action should be able to whup the ass of a 260 Remington, given loads of almost 60,000 PSI as the 260 uses.

What do you folks think ?

 

[jasonk]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

Agree, most the data out there for the 6.5x55 assumes an older rifle.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. So we have a cartridge (6.5x55) that has more powder capacity than the 260, that is available in actions the same as the 260, yet loading data is lower. just to pick two:
6.5x55 142 SMK 43.7 gr H4350 gives 2653 fps
260 Rem 142 SMK 44.5 H4350 gives 2735 fps</div></div>

6.5x55 won't work in a short action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
6. So here's my theory: A 6.5x55 in a modern action should be able to whup the ass of a 260 Remington, given loads of almost 60,000 PSI as the 260 uses.</div></div>

Sure, it's a reloaders cartidge due concerns with M-94 Swede Mauser and others. There is allot of comparative load information available on the net. Allot of people are doing it to push the slippery 6.5.

A step up from the .260 and inbetween the 6.5-06 or 6.5-284. It's (6.5x55) still a different class in length vs the .260, Creedmor, and 6.5x47.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

I have rifles in both ctgs and love 'em both. I like the nostalgia of the 6.5 x 55 and it just flat shoots. One of the most accurate rifles I have is a Krieger-barreled Howa in a McMillan A2.

The .260 I have is a Remington factory heavy barrel screwed on an action by me. It shoots about .5 to .75" despite its questionable pedigree. Hard not to love it.

My choice of the two is the 6.5 x 55.

I have recommended the .260 to some deer hunting friends, but they won't bite because of the paucity of factory ammo in our area. That's a shame, too.

 

[sixfiveguy]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

Bad ass thread!! I'm going to keep my eye on this one before I add my two cents.

 

[USSR]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

About 75-100fps difference between the two of them (in the 6.5x55's favor), when the 6.5x55 is chambered in a modern rifle and the 6.5x55 is loaded to modern pressure levels. My 6.5x55 drives the 139-142gr bullets at 2950fps.

Don

 

[Belisarius]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USSR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About 75-100fps difference between the two of them (in the 6.5x55's favor), when the 6.5x55 is chambered in a modern rifle and the 6.5x55 is loaded to modern pressure levels. My 6.5x55 drives the 139-142gr bullets at 2950fps.

Don </div></div>
My favorite! 140 a-max at 2900 fps out of my M96, lovin' it!

 

[raptor99]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

I have both an have had all three (260,6.5x55,6,5x284) I like them all and you can't go wrong with any of them!!

That being said the 6.5x55 will outshoot the 260 for velocity hands down!! My 6.5x55 when loaded up will shoot within .5moa of my 6.5x284 all the way to 1000yds for comeups an wind data.

However I keep my 6.5x55 just a tad hotter than my 260 an hope to get better barrel life out of it over the 260 an the 6.5x284 because of slower powder an less pressure. I also use the 6.5x55 to shoot the 139s and the 260 to shoot the 123s. I think the 123s to 130s are perfect for the 260 sized case and the 139s for the bigger 6.5x55 case. Both are deadly accurate. With that being said though the 6.5x284 is the KING an standard to live up to.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

Although the 6.5x55 is nominally a long action chambering, an empty should extract and eject quite nicely in a short action. Live rounds can be handled similarly if one is willing to trip the bolt release and withdraw the bolt a bit past the stop.

The magazine is where the lengths get to be more determinant. In my case, no; I don't magfeed, but many do and they should use the LA.

It's my view that the .260/6.5x55 question is an either/or issue. If you have an LA and neither, the 6.5x55 makes best sense, if not, then the .260.

No arguments; apples to apples in a modern action, the 6.5x55 is the speed king vs the .260. But simply put, either one is adequate to 1000yd shooting, and some folks who tried the 6.5x55 (and 6.5-284) eventually evolved to do the .260. Each had different reasons, I'm sure, but there they are on the .260 doorstep, waiting to be taken in and adopted.

Maybe speeed isn't the only consideration.

Greg

 

[bohem]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

I would ask what the barrel life trade-offs are. We know the life of a 260 barrel is far superior to a 6.5-284 barrel, but how's the modern loading of a 6.5x55 roll up in between them?

 

[olympian]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Belisarius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My favorite! 140 a-max at 2900 fps out of my M96, lovin' it! </div></div>

Unless you know something that is not freely available, or the barrel is 35+ inches long, you are shooting rounds at pressure considerably over what the M96 (small ring Mauser) was designed to withstand. It is not hard to destroy a M94 or M96 with excessive pressure as it is not an M98.

 

[olympian]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would ask what the barrel life trade-offs are. We know the life of a 260 barrel is far superior to a 6.5-284 barrel, but how's the modern loading of a 6.5x55 roll up in between them? </div></div>

There are several factors which affect barrel life especially working pressure and the heat potential of the powder being used. You can get a lot of rounds (3-4K) out of a 6.5x55 barrel with H1000 at lower pressure, and not many (2K) using H4350 at high pressure.

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are several factors which affect barrel life especially working pressure and the heat potential of the powder being used. You can get a lot of rounds (3-4K) out of a 6.5x55 barrel with H1000 at lower pressure, and not many (2K) using H4350 at high pressure.</div></div>

I believed that for years but am now stumped when you
see the below chart.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/bwestfall/RELOADING/barrelburnchart.jpg

So what's the truth???

Also, I keep reading how the 6.5x284 and 6.5x55 are long action cartridges only.

I don't have the lengths before me here, but I shoot a
6.5x284 Win (not Norma) in a 700 short action. I put in a Wyatts center feed WSM box and seat long 140 Berger VLD'S out to 2.960.
It feeds better than both my m70's.

I'll bet the same can be done with the 6.5x55.

Also, check out Lapua brass cost for the 55..it's a whole lot cheaper to buy. A big plus for the 55.

Also a plus side on the 6.5x284, according to QL with a 26" barrel there are powders you can load to below 59,000 psi for 2,900 mv with 48 to 52 grains of powder. That's 1,600 fps at 1000 yards and plenty to open up a VLD for deer if that's what your after.
That's not much more powder than the 55 uses.
It's also the same pressures the the 6.5 Creed is at.
If that can matter...

Either way, the 6.5's are all winners.

 

[30cal user]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

what is the length on a 6.5x284 in CM?

is it 6.5x60???

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

I just got home and checked the lengths for both
6.5x284 2.170" and 6.5x55, 2.165"

Anybody that says these are a long Action only cartridges
does not know what they are talking about.

I can also easily push 6.5-284/140's to over 3,000 fps out of the 6.5x284 Winchester.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the length on a 6.5x284 in CM?</div></div>

I'm not sure if you are asking me or what exactly you mean.

The only difference between the 6.5 Norma and 6.5 Winchester is C.O.A.L.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

Yes but i still like the way the 6.5x47 performs to all of these caliber. 10 grains less cap then the 6.5x284 but i can push the 130 to within 150 of what is does. The 6.5x55 and 6.5x284 are so close its tought ot compare expect the shoulder angle. Both need a long action. If you looking at a short action the 6.5x47 can be used even with the 142's. Just a little food for thought.

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5x55 and 6.5x284 are so close its tought ot compare expect the shoulder angle. Both need a long action. </div></div>

No sir, both don't need a long action. That's BS.
You have to Ackley the 55 to make it even close to the 284 case.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can push the 130 to within 150 of what is does</div></div>

You can't get within 200 fps unless you go to higher pressures over 60K.

 

[raptor99]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

The 6.5x47 is a nice round and you can compare it to the 260 and the CM but when it comes to the 6.5x284 its not even in the same league period.

I have shot all the ones were talking about and the only thing that comes close to a 6.5x284 is a 6.5x55. That is pushing the 6.5x55 to a max loading with the 6.5x284 just at a normal load.

When I was doing load testing with the 6.5x284s I was getting 3100+fps with RL 22 an 142s. You do the math on that compared to your 6.5x47. Your comparing apples to oranges. You want to push yours to the max an then have the 6.5x284 shooting a 142s @ 2950 or 2975fps an thats just not fair.

 

[dar1246]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

The 284 is a barrel burner. From my understanding you get at the top side about 1000-1200 rounds. That is not alot of shooting. You break the barrel in, work up a load. Then shoot it a few times (100rounds). You have just wasted 10% of the barrel life.

This is the advantage the CM,260,55,or the 47 over the 284. The 284 isn't a tac gun. It is more a bench gun. The other calibers mention has alot more barrel life. Thus making those a more shootable catridge. The 284 has its place and it has remarkable numbers.

The CM,260,55,and 47 will win matches and be a gun you can shoot on the weekends. Making it a better choice in my eyes. My 2 cents

 

[our gang]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

Thanks for the comments. On the LA/SA issue. Both the M70 and 700 used short actions (owned em' both), both had stupid 22" barrels, neither was super accurate. My R.F. Sedgley DHT 03' sporter in 6.5x55 (one of one) with a 26" barrel will shoot 140 Bergers into bug holes (seated WAY out as it was throated for 160 gr RN) and the 130 TSX into 1" or less (plenty good enough to swat two speed goats). I'm gonna have to Chrony that 03' with some of my pet loads and try working up a bit.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

They are all pretty much long action cartridges if you're loading to reach the rifling, except for probably the CM, which was deliberately shortened to deal with this very issue.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

Getting the 6.5x47 to within 150fps, the operative word is 'push'.

Basically, ya gotta hotrod the sucker, and I don't favor hotrodding because it brings out the very worst in a cartridge where throat erosion is concerned. That's why I went with the .260, when I could just as easily have gone with any of the other four.

I employ a 28" barrel and a moderate load to get 2850fps from the 142SMK.

More than that, I simply don't need, and going much quicker has been accompanied by anecdotal sories of drawbacks in terms of increased throat wear, copper fouling, and sometimes, degraded accuracy too.

I gots what I need, I don't needs no more, Olive...

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are all pretty much long action cartridges if you're loading to reach the rifling, except for probably the CM, which was deliberately shortened to deal with this very issue.</div></div>

Maybe in a factory barrel and even there I have had no problem getting any of the Berger, Lapua's, and MK's to shoot.
Most of us shoot custom barrels and fit the round to the jam the chamber, at least I do.
Right now I'm building a 284 cased round in a FN SPR action, 3.00". I'll jam Bergers at 2.960 and chase it as I wear the throat down. Easily doable and no need for a long action at all.


Really curious, I keep reading "you need a long action". Why do you need a long action?
If it's because you think it takes up less powder space.
That's a wives' tale for sure.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

No; I'm thinking more in terms of down the road, when chasing the rifling results in OALs that won't fit conveniently into a SA magazine. Yor initial observation is right on, when the bore is new, but at some point, that OAL is likely going to want an LA. Many of us say 'to heck with that' and cut directly to the chase, going with an LA from the getgo.

Looking back to earlier in this thread, I was the guy who was advicating the SA with the 'LA cartidge', but in a bolt gun, and mainly with a single feeding shooting regimen. There are break-evens involved, that can favor different approaches under different circumstances. Depend on your needs, mostly.

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

I see,

What about taking a 28" barrel and lopping off an inch on each side, re-chamber, re-crown and call it good.

 

[bohem]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apache kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see,

What about taking a 28" barrel and lopping off an inch on each side, re-chamber, re-crown and call it good. </div></div>

Why would you cut an inch from each side? To drop from 284 case back to a x55 case you have to reduce the body diameter, which means cutting back about 1.75" from the breech.

Shorten, chamber, recrown, done.

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

Some years back I called and talked with Boots Obeyermyer who told me that instead of just re-crowning again, Boots said to cut it off 1" because most barrels will fish-mouth in that last 1" and just making the crown fresh does not do a 100% job.


Food for thought....

 

[Lburt]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

Try a 6.5x55Improved. I had a 6.5x55 Hart 1:8 twist on a Sako L61R that after 2,800 rounds showed enough throat errosion that I decided to push it back and chamber for a 6.5x55 Improved. .264 Win Mag vel. with 12 grains less powder behind a 140SMK. When I sold it there were 5240 rounds total down the tube and the guy I sold it to had it pushed back a few threads and re-chambered. It still shoots 5 shots into less than 3" at 300 yards. Yes it is in a long action, however, I can load 160 roundnose or VLD's with no problem. The round is obviously easy on barrels and it is easy on cases and primer pockets as well. I believe Bob Jourdon swore by this cartridge and I know a few 1000 yard benchrest guys that used it before the 6.5x284. I guess it just didn't burn barrels fast enough for them.

 

[Wil]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apache kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can push the 130 to within 150 of what is does</div></div>

You can't get within 200 fps unless you go to higher pressures over 60K. </div></div>

This is funny...

Apache Kid letting BL know what's up... laffin'

 

[bohem]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apache kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some years back I called and talked with Boots Obeyermyer who told me that instead of just re-crowning again, Boots said to cut it off 1" because most barrels will fish-mouth in that last 1" and just making the crown fresh does not do a 100% job.


Food for thought....
</div></div>

I'd like to see the CMM data to support this theory. Sounds like a misdiagnosis IMO, I have a hard time believing that it would fishmouth like that.

The harmonic loading and materials involved just don't work that way.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apache kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6.5x55 and 6.5x284 are so close its tought ot compare expect the shoulder angle. Both need a long action. </div></div>

No sir, both don't need a long action. That's BS.
You have to Ackley the 55 to make it even close to the 284 case.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can push the 130 to within 150 of what is does</div></div>

You can't get within 200 fps unless you go to higher pressures over 60K. </div></div>

ok so what your saying is that my oehler was lying to me? I wasnt even close to max pressure and have a bit more case cap left for 4350 in it.

Next your better re-think what your talking about because i know for a fact if you want to shoot the heavier bullets out of either the 6.5x55 or the 6.5x284 and want to mag feed the rounds like 95% of the people that are on this site do then you will have to have a LA to get the OAL you need to get even near the lans in the throat of the gun.

I guess i didnt explain that heavy bullet part.

 

[cinosbus]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

+1 on the long action if you care about the mag....

Long bullets and fast twist are what makes the 6.5 what it is.

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i know for a fact if you want to shoot the heavier bullets out of either the 6.5x55 or the 6.5x284 and want to mag feed the rounds like 95% of the people that are on this site do then you will have to have a LA to get the OAL you need to get even near the lans in the throat of the gun.</div></div>


Sir, I know for a fact that I do that now, mag feed out of a 700 short action.
I load 140 VLD's in a 6.5x284 to 2.960 and shoot bug holes.

I don't need a long action. In fact, my next 6.5 build will be a FN SPR. I'll have the smith chamber it at 2.950 and I'll jam and chase to my hearts content.

None of that long action hooey for me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">95% of the people that are on this site do</div></div>

Yeah, they call that monkey see monkey do. Happens all the time in shooting circles. You gravel bellies can go long action. I'm more of a hunter and like short actions.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my oehler was lying to me?</div></div>

No I don't think it was.

But I do believe this, pressure for pressure and barrel length for barrel length.
Your not going to get within 200 fps of a 6.5x284.

I'll match your pressure and match your barrel length and up you 200 fps every time.


Side note;

The 260 Rem has a water capacity of 53 grains of water.
The 6.5x55 has 57 grains capacity of water.

What does the 260 AI have?

If it comes up to the 6.5x55 level why the heck waste time messing with the 260 AI? Especially when you can buy Lapua brass in 6.5x55.

 

[olympian]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

The 6.5x55 is a long action cartridge in a Remington 700, not a short action cartridge. To think otherwise is foolish unless the bullet is seated so deeply as to barely have any bearing surface in the neck of the brass. This is not practical. Even in a longer box magazine like a Seekins, a 6.5x55 with a 160gr. bullet (as originally designed) seated to the cannelure, there is still considerable bullet hanging out the front of the magazine. The same goes with a 140gr. Seat an 85gr. Sierra and it might fit.

You can hot rod a 6.5x55 to get 3100fps with a 140gr. but it is hard on brass and really not worth it. The 6.5-284 is a faster cartridge at the same pressure, barrel length, and relative powder choice.

I have a 6.5x55 with over 20lbs. of Ramshot Magnum (H1000 equivalent) through it and it still shoots sub-3/4" MOA. That is in the neighborhood of 2800 rounds.

Damn the jam. Even the best Palma shooters do not jam bullets. If you ever pull a round, leave the bullet in the chamber, and get powder in your trigger, you too, will not jam again.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

First few tests with the 6.5x47 improved this weekend. Was getting 3130 pushing 42.5 grains of 4350 behind the 130 bergers. It was hitting clays at 1k quite a bit and the wind wasnt being nice. I think I might be putting a new one together very soon.

 

[palma]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apache kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Side note;

The 260 Rem has a water capacity of 53 grains of water.
The 6.5x55 has 57 grains capacity of water. </div></div>

That's what QL says, but I'm curious if anyone has really compared the H2O capacity of RP .260 brass w/ Lapua x55 brass. I was told that the difference between those two cases is almost exactly the same.

 

[Hasgun Willtravel]

Re: 6.5x55 vs 260 Remington who should be faster ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6. So here's my theory: A 6.5x55 in a modern action should be able to whup the ass of a 260 Remington, given loads of almost 60,000 PSI as the 260 uses.

What do you folks think ?
</div></div>

Its no fucking theory, its reality pal.

Its just that some of the jobbers dont want to use a long action. That extra Your wasting time, and case space using a short action, and thats what my 6.5x47 would have been, if AI made a mag for that bitch.

6.5x55 swedish Mauser, Learn what the Swedes knew with thier 1/8 twist 6.5 rifles in 1896.

Benchresters are running 6.5x55 in custom actions at 6.5x284 speeds, and have been before the 284 was bastardized.

Here is some interesting reading.

http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-46428.html