**6 Creedmoor**

[Lawnboi]

Try a RCBS matchmaster die, it should size your lapua down enough to mitigate any chamber differences. They size a ton at the bottom side the case compared to most the other die manufacturers.

More than SAC? That’s what I’m currently using.

Going to try the alpha with h4831sc and see if I can take it down lower without getting too low in case fill.

 

[4O6shootist]

More than SAC? That’s what I’m currently using.

Going to try the alpha with h4831sc and see if I can take it down lower without getting too low in case fill.

Idk, I haven't tried sac dies. Get a good micrometer and measure the web area of fired VS sized cases. Calipers are half ass for this a mic is much better tool if you have one. My RCBS sizes lapua brass from 4707-471 to 4692-4695. I haven't had a clicker on anything creedmoor since switching from redding to the RCBS matchmaster.

 

[Lawnboi]

Idk, I haven't tried sac dies. Get a good micrometer and measure the web area of fired VS sized cases. Calipers are half ass for this a mic is much better tool if you have one. My RCBS sizes lapua brass from 4707-471 to 4692-4695. I haven't had a clicker on anything creedmoor since switching from redding to the RCBS matchmaster.

I’m .4695 on sized lapua, and .4680 with sized alpha. I don’t think the base of the alpha is growing at all despite being up there in pressure. Regardless I need this barrel to work for one more match and it’s over.

 

[4O6shootist]

I’m .4695 on sized lapua, and .4680 with sized alpha. I don’t think the base of the alpha is growing at all despite being up there in pressure. Regardless I need this barrel to work for one more match and it’s over.

Alpha is small and will stay small with a tight die, part the problem. It doesn't expand down low preventing chamber grip. If you're getting clickers with lapua brass that's 4695 sized, you have an undersized chamber or you're load very high pressure. Un-sized that's giving clickers should be .471X

 

[Lawnboi]

Alpha is small and will stay small with a tight die, part the problem. It doesn't expand down low preventing chamber grip. If you're getting clickers with lapua brass that's 4695 sized, you have an undersized chamber or you're load very high pressure. Un-sized that's giving clickers should be .471X

I’m guessing the barrel is just rough enough to be a little tight.

The clickers were at 2965 with h4831sc

 

[4O6shootist]

I’m guessing the barrel is just rough enough to be a little tight.

The clickers were at 2965 with h4831sc

That's pretty mild for clickers. I've been running 109 eldm at lapua brass at 41.5gr H4350 2940fps and 45.6 rl26 3060fps from a 22" barrel, brass has 3-4 reloads, and never any clickers using the RCBS matchmaster die. I have a feeling the chamber may be a lil small. What's fired brass that give click measure at base?

 

[Lawnboi]

That's pretty mild for clickers. I've been running 109 eldm at lapua brass at 41.5gr H4350 2940fps and 45.6 rl26 3060fps from a 22" barrel, brass has 3-4 reloads, and never any clickers using the RCBS matchmaster die. I have a feeling the chamber may be a lil small. What's fired brass that give click measure at base?

I’m at .470 on the lapua once fired and I just did a test with alpha and I’m at .4680 still with zero clickers and no pressure signs.

So I got a test batch of h4831sc at 42.5 grains in the alpha to give a go.

Thinking maybe I have some hot h4350. Exacerbated by some carbon and a tight chamber.

 

[4O6shootist]

I’m at .470 on the lapua once fired and I just did a test with alpha and I’m at .4680 still with zero clickers and no pressure signs.

So I got a test batch of h4831sc at 42.5 grains in the alpha to give a go.

Thinking maybe I have some hot h4350. Exacerbated by some carbon and a tight chamber.

If the chamber is in spec, saami base is 0.4714, fired of 0.470 shouldn't be any issue. Trim length is good? Chamber is clean? No carbon in throat or at the chamber area of case mouth? Kinda scratching my head on this one.

 

[Lawnboi]

None of that. Trimmed to same as the alpha at 1.910, barrel and chamber are cleaner than ever only because Iv been diagnosing issues, no carbon ring and I’m jumping around .080 now. Only thing is the brass is 5x fired in another chamber (lapua)

Up till this I have only fired the slightly smaller alpha in this chamber. If it shoots well today I’m just going to load up a batch with h4831sc and give it a run for my last match of the year.

See above goofed up post quotes


H4831sc at 2940 in the alpha brass had no pressure signs and was also shooting 1/2 moa at 400 yards, so I’m just going to burn it up with that.

H4831sc burns dirty!

Save the lapua for the barrel it was shot through, for prairie dogs.

 

[CK1.0]

Fudds will tell you this won't work... the powder's too fast, the bullet's too heavy, not enough case fill... blah, blah, blah, blah...

These pics aren't particularly amazing or anything, but I hope they show that the fudds are mistaken.

36gn Shooters World Precision Rifle
112gn Match Burner
Lapua ex-22-250 case
CCI 200
2.180" BTO
2815fps AVG @ 90degF, SD 4.9 ES 17.5 over 10 shots
26" Proof SS prefit



No signs of pressure at all, soft-shooting like a mild Dasher.

I didn't take a pic of my 100yrd group, but they were all touching.

3 at 1000yds off a PRS skills stage barricade (kneeling, standing, kneeling, builds/breaks in between, didn't run a timer but >60secs):



3 at 1250yrds off bag/tank-trap to see if the G7 I was using (.301 G7) was ok (it might be low or just parallax), for >$0.25 a pull these shitty MBs sure are as terrible as some say , I hope no one buys them so they stay cheap.



Edited to add: almost forgot... this barrel has 3000rds on it, these were somewhere between rounds 3001-3050.

Not bad for a barrel-burner that you can't load down and run slow.

 

[climbing1]

Fudds will tell you this won't work... the powder's too fast, the bullet's too heavy, not enough case fill... blah, blah, blah, blah...

These pics aren't particularly amazing or anything, but I hope they show that the fudds are mistaken.

36gn Shooters World Precision Rifle
112gn Match Burner
Lapua ex-22-250 case
CCI 200
2.180" BTO
2815fps AVG @ 90degF, SD 4.9 ES 17.5 over 10 shots
26" Proof SS prefit

View attachment 8487451

No signs of pressure at all, soft-shooting like a mild Dasher.

I didn't take a pic of my 100yrd group, but they were all touching.

3 at 1000yds off a PRS skills stage barricade (kneeling, standing, kneeling, builds/breaks in between, didn't run a timer but >60secs):

View attachment 8487449

3 at 1250yrds off bag/tank-trap to see if the G7 I was using (.301 G7) was ok (it might be low or just parallax), for >$0.25 a pull these shitty MBs sure are as terrible as some say , I hope no one buys them so they stay cheap.

View attachment 8487450

Edited to add: almost forgot... this barrel has 3000rds on it, these were somewhere between rounds 3001-3050.

Not bad for a barrel-burner that you can't load down and run slow.

Just jumped into this thread for the first time and I think this post just answered some questions... Maybe already answered elsewhere, so apologies for the redundancy.

I have an opportunity to get a smoking deal on a Bergara Premier Competition in 6CM. I want a GT, but my budget is 2400 and not sure what I can build for that. Given the fact I can get an MPA and TT in this for a great price, the overarching concern was the action/barrel (both I'm not familiar with in Bergara and prefer Tikka/60 degree throw).

I was curious if A. I could download to these speeds- 2800 wheelhouse, and be GTG. B. Could always rebarrel, that is if it's a no brainer on a good deal and assuming Bergara premier actions/comp barrel is any good. I've read mixed things about Bergara in general.

Crazy you have 3k rounds through that barrel contradicting everything I've read up on 6CM. I'm assuming this is a function of downloading during most if not all of this barrel life?

Thanks, CK1.0 and whoever else wants to chime in.

​

 

[CK1.0]

Just jumped into this thread for the first time and I think this post just answered some questions... Maybe already answered elsewhere, so apologies for the redundancy.

I have an opportunity to get a smoking deal on a Bergara Premier Competition in 6CM. I want a GT, but my budget is 2400 and not sure what I can build for that. Given the fact I can get an MPA and TT in this for a great price, the overarching concern was the action/barrel (both I'm not familiar with in Bergara and prefer Tikka/60 degree throw).

I was curious if A. I could download to these speeds- 2800 wheelhouse, and be GTG. B. Could always rebarrel, that is if it's a no brainer on a good deal and assuming Bergara premier actions/comp barrel is any good. I've read mixed things about Bergara in general.

Crazy you have 3k rounds through that barrel contradicting everything I've read up on 6CM. I'm assuming this is a function of downloading during most if not all of this barrel life?

Thanks, CK1.0 and whoever else wants to chime in.

​

I think the main ingredient has been that I never ran the barrel faster than ~2900fps, and the other part is that for probably the first ~1500rds or so I wasn't cleaning the barrel properly...

That barrel is/was the second barrel I'd ever had/run, and I was still listening to all the fudd "experts" as far as what to do (or more so what NOT to do) when cleaning, which meant for the first ~1500rds the barrel saw nothing harsher than nylon brushes, cotton patches, and Boretech Eliminator. All the legacy/fudd BS I had read/heard had scared me into believing that any use of abrasives or bronze brushes would ruin the barrel... I've since found that was/is complete and total BS and completely wrong.

So, by mistake and maybe sheer luck(?), I had loaded up the barrel with carbon to where it stopped shooting at ~1500rds, but at the same time was "protected" by a layer of hard carbon fouling due to me being a naive dumbass. I got it out, and voila, it started shooting again.

Once I got a borescope (now an essential part of my cleaning regime) and began to stop listening to any "fudd lore" that defied logic, I discovered that it absolutely requires using abrasives and bronze brushes (in fact new/fresh ones work best) to properly clean a barrel, carbon is hard, therefore you have to scrape it out, there's no magical potion that dissolves it all away (just don't be an idiot and scrape away the rifling too by going bananas without checking your work is all lol).

IDK much of anything about Bergara stuff, so I can't help you there.

But as far as 6CM (or any other 6)... a 6mm is a 6mm, if you run it at Dasher speeds it'll last as long as a Dasher, period. It really is that simple. I also run 6GT (I go back and forth between the two by switching barrels) and if I knew then what I know now I would have just stuck with 6CM. The GT's steeper 35-degree shoulder angle may have something to do with making low SDs easier to attain, but it could also be its less capacity or just be a figment of my imagination, mostly I think the "magic" is using faster powders like Varget, SWPR, N140/N150, etc and not worrying about case fill and/or burn rate so much (like guys do when they're chasing speed). I don't think it's a coincidence that 6BR, BRA, BRX, Dasher, GT and all the other "easy to load for" cartridges use Varget in their "go to" recipes.

I load all my rounds to the nearest kernel and have been doing so for ~3 years now and can tell you that much of the "reloading lore" is BS, there are no "nodes", no magical seating depth you have to discover, blah, blah, blah... there's just the struggle between what's a Rorschach test, versus validation via a statistically valid sample size.

More/less fuel = more/less velocity, always. Try to make every single round you make come out the same as the next and you'll get low SDs and an acceptable ES... and if you get low SDs and a good ES... it will shoot, period.

 

[climbing1]

I think the main ingredient has been that I never ran the barrel faster than ~2900fps, and the other part is that for probably the first ~1500rds or so I wasn't cleaning the barrel properly...

That barrel is/was the second barrel I'd ever had/run, and I was still listening to all the fudd "experts" as far as what to do (or more so what NOT to do) when cleaning, which meant for the first ~1500rds the barrel saw nothing harsher than nylon brushes, cotton patches, and Boretech Eliminator. All the legacy/fudd BS I had read/heard had scared me into believing that any use of abrasives or bronze brushes would ruin the barrel... I've since found that was/is complete and total BS and completely wrong.

So, by mistake and maybe sheer luck(?), I had loaded up the barrel with carbon to where it stopped shooting at ~1500rds, but at the same time was "protected" by a layer of hard carbon fouling due to me being a naive dumbass. I got it out, and voila, it started shooting again.

Once I got a borescope (now an essential part of my cleaning regime) and began to stop listening to any "fudd lore" that defied logic, I discovered that it absolutely requires using abrasives and bronze brushes (in fact new/fresh ones work best) to properly clean a barrel, carbon is hard, therefore you have to scrape it out, there's no magical potion that dissolves it all away (just don't be an idiot and scrape away the rifling too by going bananas without checking your work is all lol).

IDK much of anything about Bergara stuff, so I can't help you there.

But as far as 6CM (or any other 6)... a 6mm is a 6mm, if you run it at Dasher speeds it'll last as long as a Dasher, period. It really is that simple. I also run 6GT (I go back and forth between the two by switching barrels) and if I knew then what I know now I would have just stuck with 6CM. The GT's steeper 35-degree shoulder angle may have something to do with making low SDs easier to attain, but it could also be its less capacity or just be a figment of my imagination, mostly I think the "magic" is using faster powders like Varget, SWPR, N140/N150, etc and not worrying about case fill and/or burn rate so much (like guys do when they're chasing speed). I don't think it's a coincidence that 6BR, BRA, BRX, Dasher, GT and all the other "easy to load for" cartridges use Varget in their "go to" recipes.

I load all my rounds to the nearest kernel and have been doing so for ~3 years now and can tell you that much of the "reloading lore" is BS, there are no "nodes", no magical seating depth you have to discover, blah, blah, blah... there's just the struggle between what's a Rorschach test, versus validation via a statistically valid sample size.

More/less fuel = more/less velocity, always. Try to make every single round you make come out the same as the next and you'll get low SDs and an acceptable ES... and if you get low SDs and a good ES... it will shoot, period.

Hey man, appreciate the thorough response. A lot of what you're saying makes sense, but I have no hands on experience outside .30 cal.

As far as finding a node, a ladder seemingly made a difference for me trying to dial one in, although as you imply, the smallish sample size might not be enough to realistically justify what's reality. Whatever it is, 100% agree on consistency being key squeezing down SD/ES. I've been reloading a little while now, but am not seasoned. All I know that's tangible is that I'm getting better results than factory so I'm happy to go in the right direction.

Yeah the Dasher was on the list, but I didn't want to have to mess with/invest into one other thing to make it feed. Some dude on Texas Plinking for the 1k yd challenge showed up with a 4/5k Gucci'd rifle chambered in one. I think he said he liked to shoot PRS if I remember correctly. At any rate, shooting prone, he had to manipulate the mag to get it to feed at least 75% of the time. Nope to that. If I'm dropping that kind of coin, it better run. That would not be a great way to enjoy PRS. No offense to that guy.

Cheers

 

[Heretic]

40.8 RL 16
110 A-Tip
2.785" COAL

Planning on shooting 10rd strings tomorrow of 40.8 H-4350 with 106 ELD-M (that's what they look like) and 106 A-Tips mentioned earlier in the this thread.
This was out of a Gen II RPR 6mm Creedmoor (obviously)

 

[Heretic]

Rifle is RPR Custom Shop in 6mm Creedmoor
Conditions: 4000fasl, Clear, 91F, steady 20mph from the SE.

The A-Tips were about 28 fps faster than the ELD-Ms, no idea why (more aerodynamic?)
Very impressed with the Factory ELD-VT

 

[CK1.0]

Rifle is RPR Custom Shop in 6mm Creedmoor
Conditions: 4000fasl, Clear, 91F, steady 20mph from the SE.
View attachment 8502508
The A-Tips were about 28 fps faster than the ELD-Ms, no idea why (more aerodynamic?)
Very impressed with the Factory ELD-VT

Hmmm 3090-3166fps at 91degF in Vegas, where even hotter 100+degF temps are common...

Don't blow yourself up dude.

 

[Cody S]

26" barrel in proof comp contour, lapua brass FL sized down about 2.5 thou and about 2 thou neck tension, federal 205m primers and 42.5 grains of n555 under a 109 hybrid 60 thou off lands at 2.814 coal. 3012fps for 7 shots, SD of 6, all grouped together.