**6 Creedmoor**

[MilSpecOkie]

*Edit: I was thinking you were asking about GTs, not Creedmoor. In the 130 FB I had to run them in the case a little. In a 183 FB I don’t recall any problems.*

That was a couple barrels ago but I think it was 20-30 off because of how long the DTACs are. I shot about 500 109s before them IIRC. I looked in my Kestrel and I was running them at 2863 fps. That barrel used an Alpha reamer with .120 FB and I used Alpha brass. I have another in the safe that has a .170 FB so I don’t have to go as far into the case. I’ve been playing with the 22 GT this year.

 

[J McGriddle]

How far off the lands do yall run the 115 DTACs? I started with a box of them because they were more available than Bergers, but I've been having trouble getting a decent load figured out.

So far I can't tell if its the barrel speeding up, the brass fireforming, or issues with the bullet. I'm 100 shots into a new build and only halfway through my lot of 200 pieces of brass. I did a charge ladder to get up to about 3000 fps, then shot some 5-shot groups at various seating depths from -.020" to .060" and nothing really stood out to me.

I was jumping DTACS .060" in a Proof prefit, but I ran my 6CM slower than most.

 

[4O6shootist]

How far off the lands do yall run the 115 DTACs?

I started at 30k jump shooting 1/3moa, I've put 800 rounds through it since then, still shoots pretty good. My barrels are cut with my 170k freebore alpha reamer. Anything more than 40k jump, the dtac is getting pretty close go moving the bearing surface below the neck.

 

[AZ_Artilleryman]

I've had good luck with DTACs just about anywhere in the 40 to 100 thou off range and wouldn't think of loading them any closer than that, IIRC I settled on 80 off and never really had any reason to mess with it anymore after.

That said, I don't start critiquing my load until I've put at least 200 rounds through a barrel, and I don't buy into any of that silly ladder/node stuff... In the first few hundred rounds on a barrel, I just look to see what in grains yields what as far as speed, then I pick a middle-of-the-road speed that won't give me any trouble (whether it's 32degF or 100degF outside) and then move on to finding a jump that gives me consistent vertical downrange.

These days I actually check my 100 yard groups last lol.

I said charge ladder but that's probably a misuse of the term. I don't believe in nodes either. I made up a batch across a variety of charges to find the one that was nearest to my goal velocity of 3000 fps.

I'll load up the next 100 rounds with a conservative load and shoot them, then continue my load development.

 

[CK1.0]

I said charge ladder but that's probably a misuse of the term. I don't believe in nodes either. I made up a batch across a variety of charges to find the one that was nearest to my goal velocity of 3000 fps.

I'll load up the next 100 rounds with a conservative load and shoot them, then continue my load development.

I get it, ladders for figuring out X-grains = X-fps is a valid reason to do a ladder... but if you start talking flat spots and bullets going to sleep I'm out lol.

@MilSpecOkie, I think I may have been running a few of my loads over the last couple of years with the bullet's bearing surface below the shoulder/neck junction... but I never really thought about it because my guns have hammered, and I've gotten 15+ firings out of cases without any issues (while chugging the bullet-jump kool-aid and loving the consistent waterline downrange it delivers)...

Only recently did I start considering that there may be a day I run into the dreaded donuts in the case necks that I've been warned/lucky enough to avoid... so I've been looking at it a little closer and trying to move towards loads that stick to the traditional "bearing surface above the shoulder/neck or else" mantra/lore.

But honestly, IDK if it even matters and the whole thing could just be a bunch of BS like 100 other reloading myths that get tossed around by dudes who've never burned out a single barrel... when I was ignorant to the tales of the dreaded aforementioned donuts I used to look at the bullets being seated down into the case a little as a possible benefit, by filling some empty case volume and pumping up one's case-fill ratio (my own BS theory lol), but my guns have hammered out to 1250 yards and shot little groups the whole time (and I'm not that lucky and don't believe in coincidence) so who knows, maybe ignorance is bliss?

That said, I have been looking into throating reamers (or whatever they're called) to maybe be able to establish my own bespoke freebore specs unto my Proof prefits if I want lol.

Switching bullets sure would be easier though, I was hoping the 105s were shorter base-to-ogive ...

 

[MilSpecOkie]

Ck1.0

IMO if you have enough neck clearance for proper bullet release you don’t need to worry about doughnuts. I like to have 5-6 K clearance to avoid doughnuts. My 22GT PVA chambered has about 8 K with GAP brass IIRC.

If you can get the speed you desire and have sufficient clearance go for it. I have done it both ways, below and above shoulder/neck junction with equal results.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

On barrel life - I just screwed on my third 6CM barrel. All run suppressed.
First was a 28", running 105s at 2980 with N160, went about 1500 before it started making comet tails on target.
Second was 22", running 109 at 2840 with N160, went about 2100 before it started dropping shots low and opened up from .23" mean radius (.4-.5" groups, on avg) to .51" MR (group sizes about an inch... ish. Some bigger)

Third is another 22", I'm thinking I'll run 105s at about 2750 to see if I can limp it longer. Maybe I ran the 22 incher too fast for it's length, but I don't see getting much more than 2000 out of a barrel with this cartridge and powder burn range. Leftover ammo from barrel 2 still made a .22"MR for the first outing, so initially looks to be at least on par with the last two. I have a small ladder loaded up for later this week.

I have a dasher barrel for when #3 goes. If I'm going to run BR speeds I might as well burn less powder to do it, I just hope I can get it to feed from AW mags decently.

 

[Raffy]

Report back on feeding your Dasher out of aw mags. I'm looking at going that way sometime also

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

If it’s anything like BRA, I’ll have one that runs 100% because it has a redneck anti tilt follower, and one that runs fine until you get to the last three in the mag when it nosedives. I’d go back to BRA, but I have a lot of 4350 and figure dasher gives more wiggle room to use it.

My 6CM has run 100% across four mags with zero tuning, so it did what I needed it to do. It’s also pretty powder tolerant, group size wise. I just don’t see the longevity of it, even going what I thought was “slow.” I probably shoot too fast

 

[Raffy]

I run h4350 exclusively in my dasher also and can't see any reason to change, even when sitting on several jugs of varget. Literally one hole groups. That's interesting about the mag issues. I wonder what makes them so intolerant of consistency?

 

[4O6shootist]

On barrel life - I just screwed on my third 6CM barrel. All run suppressed.
First was a 28", running 105s at 2980 with N160, went about 1500 before it started making comet tails on target.
Second was 22", running 109 at 2840 with N160, went about 2100 before it started dropping shots low and opened up from .23" mean radius (.4-.5" groups, on avg) to .51" MR (group sizes about an inch... ish. Some bigger)

Third is another 22", I'm thinking I'll run 105s at about 2750 to see if I can limp it longer. Maybe I ran the 22 incher too fast for it's length, but I don't see getting much more than 2000 out of a barrel with this cartridge and powder burn range. Leftover ammo from barrel 2 still made a .22"MR for the first outing, so initially looks to be at least on par with the last two. I have a small ladder loaded up for later this week.

I have a dasher barrel for when #3 goes. If I'm going to run BR speeds I might as well burn less powder to do it, I just hope I can get it to feed from AW mags decently.

Why not switch to a more efficient case and burn less powder, still getting 2000+ rounds at 2850+ fps from a 26" barrel? I get the 22" if suppressed. A dasher will still run 2700+ from a 22".

 

[ID_Matt]

Report back on feeding your Dasher out of aw mags. I'm looking at going that way sometime also

AW will feed dasher just dandy if you are using a spacer kit like the HRD gear.

 

[chungus]

Is anyone shooting the Barnes 95gr LRX? Looks like it might be the ideal hunting bullet. With a BC of .436 it is a lot better than most traditional hunting bullets like a 95gr Nosler partition at .365. A 95 gr VLD has a BC of .480.

Scouring through countless threads on various forums it seems for every person that has good things to say about an ELD or VLD for hunting applications there is someone else saying how crappy they are. You don’t see many negative comments about Barnes performance on game.

It seems foolish to load for the 6 creed and not take advantage of the high BC bullets it was designed for but when hunting is the main objective a lot of them have mixed reviews and don’t instill a lot of confidence.

I have never used the LRX. I have shot the TSX and TTSX and they are great on game but the BC is not that great.

Looks like it would be pretty easy to push them at 3200 fps which should put the smack down on a deer, hog, or coyote. I am looking for a all purpose load for a truck gun that will work well on anything I encounter at the ranch and be capable at distance as well.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I’ve never been overly impressed with the LRX’s accuracy. I prefer the PVA solids if I’m hunting with a mono. I had really good accuracy and consistency with the 95gn 6mms and 122 6,5s.

 

[Kjb1796]

I prefer the 100 grain Nosler Partitions have used them in 243 WIN, 6mm Remington and am currently loading them in 6mm CM. They have worked flawless since 1970 for myself my dad and brother.

 

[chungus]

I prefer the 100 grain Nosler Partitions have used them in 243 WIN, 6mm Remington and am currently loading them in 6mm CM. They have worked flawless since 1970 for myself my dad and brother.

They are one of the best killing bullets around. Tried and true performance on game. That being said bullet technology has evolved a lot over the past 75 years since they were invented. I wouldn’t argue that modern bullets have better terminal performance but those things have the aerodynamics of a brick compared to modern bullets. I guess it depends on what you are doing but not many people are shooting partitions at 1,000 yds.

 

[Kjb1796]

No doubt that many bullet designs have higher BCs, and add to that, probably not many people hunting at 1000 yards with a 6mm CM.

 

[acourvil]

I’ve never been overly impressed with the LRX’s accuracy. I prefer the PVA solids if I’m hunting with a mono. I had really good accuracy and consistency with the 95gn 6mms and 122 6,5s.

I’ve had great results from. LRX bullets in 260 Rem and 300 WM. I haven’t tried PVA solids or the LRXs in 6mm.

 

[4O6shootist]

My 6cm killed 7 animals from 400 to 730y this year with 108 elite hunters at 3050mv. Nothing required a second shot, if it was a bang flop, they made a 20-30y death sprint and tipped over. Have used this bullet at shorter distances in the 6gt a few years back with 1 shot kill success as well, 2920mv.
I know match bullets kill well, the Barnes match burner, eldm, tmk, Berger hybrid, vld, target, elite hunter whatever......they've all done the job from 22gt to 338 rum and many in between. I have not shot a bonded bullet for a very LONG time, tried solids a few years back with mixed results. Back to match bthp cup and core, dead critters with no second shots.
My woman has been using 140 eldm and 140 hyb last 4 years in between her 65cm and now her prc, and she's had nothing but one shot kills from 230-480y, 6 animals total. Put a expanding match bullet in the vitals at near any distance, and it'll die.
We generally hunt open country, where a 40-50y death sprint will likely be able to still see the animal go down. If you're looking to shoulder shoot and break down large bone structures, I'd prob look for sierra tgk or nosler accubonds(not the LR version).

 

[Dirtrax]

What’s everyone’s go to powders for 87 V-max? This will be a winter night time hunting cartridge. Velocity is important to keep it as flat as possible but still group well.

I have either a 24” 1/7.5 twist proof barrel or a 22” 1/8 C6 barrel. Hoping to use the proof for the added velocity.

I don’t know about “everybody” but I shoot the 87 v-max at 45 grs of H-4350. I’m getting 3360 fps out of a 24” barrel which isn’t terribly fast. POI is the same elevation as the 105 MB @ 100yds. I have to correct .1 mils right out to 440 yds which is as far as I’ve taken it. It’s still a work in progress. Groups are 1/2 moa so far in 20 to 30 degree weather.

 

[diggler1833]

26" Bartlein, 1:7.25.

108gr ELD-M
Virgin Peterson brass
CCI 450
H4350
2.236 CBTO ~ 2.796 OAL (factory ELD-M measurement)

Started load development on my new 6CM barrel for my AT-X this afternoon. It had 40 rounds through it before I started, so I expect that it will speed up a bit...but I was pretty disappointed in the velocities.

This was my first time using Peterson brass. Previously I had used Hornady, and I had heard that the Peterson stuff had less case capacity. Out of an abundance of caution, I had used Nosler's load data and not Hodgdon, as they have a 2.1gr disparity for H4350. Being that I saw zero pressure signs, I think I will step it up a touch next time.

I didn't get the ES and SD that I was hoping for either, but it may just take a powder change. I just got spoiled shooting 6.5x47s where everything works.

Accuracy was pretty good though. If I were content with 6BR performance, I'd test the 38.3gr charge again and if it held up a few more times I'd call it good.

^ That was my opening group, and I was pretty excited. Unfortunately the ES and SD opened up, which may be related to my cheap-ass chronograph. I got a couple errors, and then set it lower a couple inches where everything seemed to read again. FWIW, it gets me to within .1 mil usually at 600 so it can't be too shitty.

Highest charge of the day (Nosler max) produced a decent group too. I think it might creep over 2,900 after another hundred rounds or so on the barrel...but that ES though...

Between those were some acceptable groups. I had one flier, but it broke clean, so I figure it just isn't a happy spot. I also tried toying with my zero after the second group, and my first shot on group 3 took the stupid sticker off...so I had to shoot at the bullet hole. I went back down .2 for groups 4 and 5.

Next: I'm going to work up another half grain or a touch more. I'm still not real comfortable with my knowledge of Peterson brass in regards to case capacity.

The whole target for today:

If any of you have some experience with Peterson brass, I'd be glad to hear what kind of charge weights you were/are using.

 

[misternuke]

New lightweight hunting 6cm build Zermatt TL3 w/ 22" Proof CF barrel in MCS Pro Hunter.
Tested a load of H4350 from 40.0 to 41.0 in 0.2g increments.
Berger 115 VLD Hunting, Lapua SRP brass, BR4 primer, @ 2.800" jumping about 0.065"
Shots 1-18 through barrel, no cleaning or break in. Only 3 shot strings but 40.8g looks promising @ 0.240" measured. 41.0g same size.
Data collected using a Garmin XERO and an old school Oehler - very agreeable.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

If any of you have some experience with Peterson brass, I'd be glad to hear what kind of charge weights you were/are using.

Old data, and measured from 2 different SAAMI chambers/barrels, but my fired case capacity for Peterson was about .5gr of H2O less than Lapua. SRP for both. I've never used the Hornady brass or accidentally picked any up to measure.

I've always ended up somewhere in the 41+/- 1 gn range for any powder in the 4350 burn range.

 

[diggler1833]

Old data, and measured from 2 different SAAMI chambers/barrels, but my fired case capacity for Peterson was about .5gr of H2O less than Lapua. SRP for both. I've never used the Hornady brass or accidentally picked any up to measure.

I've always ended up somewhere in the 41+/- 1 gn range for any powder in the 4350 burn range.

Perfect, thanks!

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Interesting and food for thought , waiting on delivery of some coated 115 D-Tac's and will load one Peterson SRP case with 450's and start at 39.5 H 4350 and fire them into my back yard bullet trap and use the usual tell tale signs of pressure.
Ain't it always something

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Perfect, thanks!

FWIW, I GRT'd it using my peterson case capacity. You're about 80 fps short which may close as the barrel speeds up. The simulation puts max at 41.6 and 62k psi @3100 fps, which is right about the hornady book max (41.7/3050) as well.

 

[diggler1833]

FWIW, I GRT'd it using my peterson case capacity. You're about 80 fps short which may close as the barrel speeds up. The simulation puts max at 41.6 and 62k psi @3100 fps, which is right about the hornady book max (41.7/3050) as well.

View attachment 8370208

Thanks again.

Yeah, I would expect the barrel to speed up some as it only has 65 rounds on it now. 80 FPS might be asking a bit much though.

I usually find that I have to add about 30 FPS when I true velocity at 600-650. We shall see. I still have 170 pieces of virgin brass to play around with before I try to settle on a load anyway.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Skimming through the early pages and seeing some of your guys charge weights is insane. 42-44g of H4350 under a 105?

I'm only getting 3025fps from a 27" BRUX at 40.5g H4350 and a 108 ELDM using Peterson brass. Anything over 41g and I'm blowing primers and having severe gas leaks.

 

[King_beardsly]

I was running 41.8 of H4350 under 105 Hybrids in federal brass getting 3180 out of a 26”, it was definitely spicy but not crazy

 

[kyotekiller25]

Here's my brass and velocities at 41g H4350 and 108 ELDM...May have figured out the issue is the WLR primers from a few guys on here. If you look at all the other pieces of brass, there's zero issues. Primers look fine, no cratering, no gas marks, no ejector marks, no heavy bolt lift. This was also on a 35 degree day.

Anyways, I'm now at 40.2g for right at 3000fps and 1/2 MOA from a 27" barrel...Pretty slow for a 27" tube but I guess it is what it is...

 

[King_beardsly]

Here's my brass and velocities at 41g H4350 and 108 ELDM...May have figured out the issue is the WLR primers from a few guys on here. If you look at all the other pieces of brass, there's zero issues. Primers look fine, no cratering, no gas marks, no ejector marks, no heavy bolt lift. This was also on a 35 degree day.

Anyways, I'm now at 40.2g for right at 3000fps and 1/2 MOA from a 27" barrel...Pretty slow for a 27" tube but I guess it is what it is...

View attachment 8371008View attachment 8371007

As long as it’s consistent and you can spot your impacts, speed isn’t the biggest concern. I chased speed for a while but when I redo my load I’m going to try to hit like 2850-2900 which is slow, but the miles to matches podcast made a good point. If you can’t spot your misses or hits, then you’re just guessing and wicked fast speeds don't give you enough time to actually see what’s happening on/off plate.

 

[diggler1833]

I am not a big fan of Winchester primers in general, but sometimes you have to run what you have.

39.5 gave me acceptable accuracy in Peterson SRP brass, and there were zero pressure signs. My 6CM attempt a few years ago I used Hornady brass and 41.0gr of H4350, igniting it with CCI-BR2s. I wish I had a few more of those BR2s on hand these days.

I got a bit overly cautious I guess with this Peterson brass as I ran into significant pressure issues in my 6.5 Grendel going from Lapua to Starline brass (not relevant, but now I start low with new brass manufacturers). I was chewing up brass a full grain below book max off of Vihtavouri and Hodgdon. It is that whole "once bitten, twice shy".

Since I stopped at 39.5 at 2,870FPS, I loaded three more groups last evening at 39.7, 39.9, and 40.1. As long as I can scare 2,950FPS and get good accuracy, I'll be content. I'm hoping to be able to shoot them this afternoon.

The downside is that I have a 6GT barrel that shoots the same 108gr ELD-M at 2,935FPS and does it on a couple grains less H4350 ... and it shoots the 105gr Hybrids well at 2,960 FPS. I'm essentially overlapping at this point and will probably abandon one of the cartridges once that barrel is shot out (which will probably be the GT as I've still had occasional feeding issues in my AI mags).

 

[kyotekiller25]

As long as it’s consistent and you can spot your impacts, speed isn’t the biggest concern. I chased speed for a while but when I redo my load I’m going to try to hit like 2850-2900 which is slow, but the miles to matches podcast made a good point. If you can’t spot your misses or hits, then you’re just guessing and wicked fast speeds don't give you enough time to actually see what’s happening on/off plate.

It's a solid load at 40.2 and I can live with 3K. Basically mimics the factory match 108s at 2980fps. I was hoping for 3100 with the 27" but its ok. 100fps doesnt mean shit at the end of the day. Steel and dogs dont know the difference any. Spotting my own shots is super easy since it's a 15# rifle with a brake. Watched this dog take a dirt nap at 225 yards on 20x no problem.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I am not a big fan of Winchester primers in general, but sometimes you have to run what you have.

39.5 gave me acceptable accuracy in Peterson SRP brass, and there were zero pressure signs. My 6CM attempt a few years ago I used Hornady brass and 41.0gr of H4350, igniting it with CCI-BR2s. I wish I had a few more of those BR2s on hand these days.

I got a bit overly cautious I guess with this Peterson brass as I ran into significant pressure issues in my 6.5 Grendel going from Lapua to Starline brass (not relevant, but now I start low with new brass manufacturers). I was chewing up brass a full grain below book max off of Vihtavouri and Hodgdon. It is that whole "once bitten, twice shy".

Since I stopped at 39.5 at 2,870FPS, I loaded three more groups last evening at 39.7, 39.9, and 40.1. As long as I can scare 2,950FPS and get good accuracy, I'll be content. I'm hoping to be able to shoot them this afternoon.

The downside is that I have a 6GT barrel that shoots the same 108gr ELD-M at 2,935FPS and does it on a couple grains less H4350 ... and it shoots the 105gr Hybrids well at 2,960 FPS. I'm essentially overlapping at this point and will probably abandon one of the cartridges once that barrel is shot out (which will probably be the GT as I've still had occasional feeding issues in my AI mags).

Yah I have 2 bricks of those WLR left and never had any issues with the other 3 bricks in a few different rifles. They are now boxed up and waiting for Winchester to pick them up. Hopefully they will either replace them or refund me.

 

[diggler1833]

Picking up where I left off over the weekend, I tried a couple more groups today with a slight bump in charge weights. 15 rounds fired total today, we have a storm blowing in.

*108gr ELD-M / virgin Peterson brass / CCI-450*

39.5gr gave me a .398" with 2,870 FPS last week as my max charge.

This time it was 39.7, 39.9, and 40.1 - I obviously only went in .2gr increments. Accuracy is everything I could have hoped for, considering that I will allow myself a tenth of an inch or so for wind .

39.7

40.1

POI is extremely close, and was last time too. I don't think it is going to change much with this barrel (it changed on target today due to my removing and cleaning it).

I can live with 2,930 as the barrel still only has 80 rounds on it now. I would expect that to creep a bit over my 'minimum' goal of 2,950.

Unfortunately, I spit out another uncalled flier at 39.9...otherwise it would have been nearly identical in size to the other two groups. That is the second uncalled flier in the 40 rounds (8 groups) I've shot, and I'm going to have to figure out what's causing it...I'll play with seating depth first to see if I'm on the ragged edge. At first I tried to mentally chalk it up to a brief shift in wind, but at 100 yards that excuse isn't going to work.

I'm also not loving the ES and SD across the board. I'm hesitant to get off this combo, but I have Rl-16, N160, SWLR that are all pretty close and might just be the answer.

The whole target for today:

 

[kyotekiller25]

Looks good

 

[Coyote777]

Anyone have any load info for the 70g Noslers ballistic tips? I’ve tried several charges of H4350 and H380. This was all with Lapua SRP brass, CCI BR4’s and BSD jumping .50 thousands. Jumping .50 has me seated with .150 thousands of bearing surface into the case. Just didn’t want to shove the bullet way in like factory loads.

Going to try some Win 760 with CCI 450 primers next just to see. Barrel is a 18” 1-8t. Trying to shoot the 70’s cause this is a shorty varmit rig and trying to get some velocity out of it.

 

[diggler1833]

Craaaap.

Well, tried 40.1 again and duplicated my .3 results from 3 posts above ^. Chronograph said my ES and SD still sucked (30 and 11 respectively), so I unfortunately duplicated that too .

Bumped to 40.3 and accuracy finally started to come apart (.787"), but the ES and SD started to get tighter (20 and 7).

I'll play with seating depth a bit later on to see what that does.

However I am now distracting myself with the 109 Hybrids for the next little bit, then it's back to the 108 ELD-M but with N160. I'm just farting around with a few components until all my virgin brass is once fired.

 

[diggler1833]

Learned my lesson on using cheap RCBS dies yesterday. The seating stem kept grabbing and holding onto my 109 hybrids...soooo I just substituted some 107gr SMK in their place until my new dies come in. However, I have zero idea how far I am to the lands, so my seating depth test today was a complete shot in the dark.

Serves me right for being cheap .

Found a decent window where I'll be exploring further. I just used a nominal charge of 40.0gr H4350.

- Virgin Peterson brass
- CCI 450

At this point I'm pretty certain I'll just load to 2.215 (approximately 2.765 COL) and let it be for a while. Probably not even worth screwing with a powder charge test. Unfortunately, I didn't bust out my chronograph...but based upon my recent 108gr ELD-M results, I'm probably somewhere in the 2,925ish range unless my barrel is starting to speed up. It has 115 rounds on it now.

I guess I'll load a few more up and see how it does if I add a little more speed to it.

 

[Hickswr]

New lightweight hunting 6cm build Zermatt TL3 w/ 22" Proof CF barrel in MCS Pro Hunter.
Tested a load of H4350 from 40.0 to 41.0 in 0.2g increments.
Berger 115 VLD Hunting, Lapua SRP brass, BR4 primer, @ 2.800" jumping about 0.065"
Shots 1-18 through barrel, no cleaning or break in. Only 3 shot strings but 40.8g looks promising @ 0.240" measured. 41.0g same size.
Data collected using a Garmin XERO and an old school Oehler - very agreeable.

Twist?

 

[kyotekiller25]

Learned my lesson on using cheap RCBS dies yesterday. The seating stem kept grabbing and holding onto my 109 hybrids...soooo I just substituted some 107gr SMK in their place until my new dies come in. However, I have zero idea how far I am to the lands, so my seating depth test today was a complete shot in the dark.

Serves me right for being cheap .

Found a decent window where I'll be exploring further. I just used a nominal charge of 40.0gr H4350.

- Virgin Peterson brass
- CCI 450

View attachment 8378296

At this point I'm pretty certain I'll just load to 2.215 (approximately 2.765 COL) and let it be for a while. Probably not even worth screwing with a powder charge test. Unfortunately, I didn't bust out my chronograph...but based upon my recent 108gr ELD-M results, I'm probably somewhere in the 2,925ish range unless my barrel is starting to speed up. It has 115 rounds on it now.

I guess I'll load a few more up and see how it does if I add a little more speed to it.

I just ordered a couple Forster Micrometer seaters for my 223 and 6 Creed yesterday for that exact reason, among not getting consistent depths and fucking up my bullets. Have been using the standard RCBS seaters and it just wasn't cutting it anymore. Going to get a 7 Rem Mag one also for the 7-300 Win Mag to round out my trio of rifles shooting ELDMs.

 

[diggler1833]

I just ordered a couple Forster Micrometer seaters for my 223 and 6 Creed yesterday for that exact reason, among not getting consistent depths and fucking up my bullets. Have been using the standard RCBS seaters and it just wasn't cutting it anymore. Going to get a 7 Rem Mag one also for the 7-300 Win Mag to round out my trio of rifles shooting ELDMs.

I've got a couple sets of Forester dies. I still went quasi-cheap and got a set of Redding "premium" or whatever with the micrometer seater. I'm 100% guilty of grabbing that RCBS set because it was $40 and on the shelf of a Walmart as I walked by.

My first set of Forester dies didn't impress too much. The seating stem leaves a mark on everything, but it got lighter as I decreased the friction interference. I know I can get custom honed stems...but with 4 different bullets in that cartridge (6.5x47, 2 rifles) it is a bit more work than I want. My second set the seater is perfect with both bullets I've tried (300NM).

Surprisingly, that cheapo 6 Creed RCBS die set was giving me +/- .001 either way on all of my CBTO measurements (with a cheapo Honady comparator), and accuracy from the posts above is pretty good.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I've got a couple sets of Forester dies. I still went quasi-cheap and got a set of Redding "premium" or whatever with the micrometer seater. I'm 100% guilty of grabbing that RCBS set because it was $40 and on the shelf of a Walmart as I walked by.

My first set of Forester dies didn't impress too much. The seating stem leaves a mark on everything, but it got lighter as I decreased the friction interference. I know I can get custom honed stems...but with 4 different bullets in that cartridge (6.5x47, 2 rifles) it is a bit more work than I want. My second set the seater is perfect with both bullets I've tried (300NM).

Surprisingly, that cheapo 6 Creed RCBS die set was giving me +/- .001 either way on all of my CBTO measurements (with a cheapo Honady comparator), and accuracy from the posts above is pretty good.

My complaint with the basic RCBS seater is the obvious ring marks and dent rings its leaving just below the tip, the consistency on seating depth is varying as much as .015"-.020" so it's literally taking me a fucking hour to seat 20 rounds all the same length. I have to set the stem long, and then just seat all the bullets gradually one by one while turning the stem down, remeasuring, reseating, repeating...all while continuing to fuck my bullets up that much more. Surprisingly enough, it's not messing with my accuracy any. Still getting 1/3-1/2 MOA at 300 yards. But I'm just tired of screwing with them. I've used cheap RCBS dies my whole life and never really had any issues with them until I started loading ELDMs.

I'm hoping the Forster micrometer solves most of those issues...If not, I'll return them and look at the Redding or RCBS micrometers...

 

[misternuke]

Twist?

7.5

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Just traded for a # of VVN-555. Their site list a max charge with a Berger VLD Tgt. at 41.4gn. Anyone have any experience with this powder and any 115 gn bullet ?

 

[diggler1833]

I suppose I guessed wrong on my seating depth from the other day. Loaded up a few groups just slightly bumping up powder charge until I hit the 2,950 mark. I know there's more there, but I'm going to be happy with 2,950 and decent accuracy.

Now I just need decent accuracy .

Looks like I might need to test more to see if I'm really getting much of a "flat spot" between 40.3 and 40.5.

Managed to throw one out of every group today, and no shots broke noticeably bad. Usually I've found that a slight tweak in seating depth provides a fix, so I'm just going to load 40.4gr H4350 and start seating out a few thousandths at a time until the flier goes away.

Load:
107 SMK, H4350, CCI-450, V Peterson brass, 2.215 CBTO or about 2.765 COL.

Barrel:
26" Bartlein, 1:7.25.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I suppose I guessed wrong on my seating depth from the other day. Loaded up a few groups just slightly bumping up powder charge until I hit the 2,950 mark. I know there's more there, but I'm going to be happy with 2,950 and decent accuracy.

Now I just need decent accuracy .

Looks like I might need to test more to see if I'm really getting much of a "flat spot" between 40.3 and 40.5.

Managed to throw one out of every group today, and no shots broke noticeably bad. Usually I've found that a slight tweak in seating depth provides a fix, so I'm just going to load 40.4gr H4350 and start seating out a few thousandths at a time until the flier goes away.

Load:
107 SMK, H4350, CCI-450, V Peterson brass, 2.215 CBTO or about 2.765 COL.

Barrel:
26" Bartlein, 1:7.25.

View attachment 8379924

Still not horrible for 5 shot groups...

Have you tried longer seating depths? I'm at 2.795"-2.8" for a COAL with the 108g ELDMs. They're shooting right at 3/8-1/2 MOA for me at 3000-3025fps.

I usually start long and work my way back, but typically find .010" off provides sufficient enough accuracy for me and what I'm doing anyway. Consistent 1/2 MOA is all I need and ask for from my rifles.

 

[diggler1833]

Still not horrible for 5 shot groups...

Have you tried longer seating depths? I'm at 2.795"-2.8" for a COAL with the 108g ELDMs. They're shooting right at 3/8-1/2 MOA for me at 3000-3025fps.

I usually start long and work my way back, but typically find .010" off provides sufficient enough accuracy for me and what I'm doing anyway. Consistent 1/2 MOA is all I need and ask for from my rifles.

Yessir. See posts 1,223 and 1,237 for my longer seating depths. I have found that your 2.795 - 2.800 is the sweet spot for 108gr ELD-Ms in my 6CM too, but I haven't tested any further yet. It is still a new barrel.

The 107 SMK's bearing surface is pretty short comparatively. At 2.785/2.245 CBTO, you've only got about 2/3 - 3/4 of the case neck actually holding onto the bearing surface. So loading shorter is probably optimal.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Gotcha! I kinda figured the 107s were a little shorter, thus the shorter OAL length.

I haven't played with mine a whole lot either since getting my custom built 223 wylde and getting it broke in.

I'll probably wait until I have 100 rounds through the 6 creed and get all my brass fireformed before I really start getting serious with my load development. As it is, I feel it's pretty close. Gonna be somewhere around 40-40.2g H4350 at 2.795" or so. I plan to load in .1g increments and shoot at 300 yards to find the right charge, and then see if tweaking the depth a little shorter will change anything. And lastly, trying a couple different primers after I've nailed the charge/seating depth.

 

[Coyote777]

18” 1-8t X-Caliber
88g Berger FBV
CCI 450 Magnum Primer
H4350-45g
BSD-2.130 (.15 jump)
COAL-2.819
Avg FPS-3180