**6 Creedmoor**

Glad you got ahold of him. Do me a favor and post pics of the new style plug please.
Sure. Will do when they get here. I only needed 2 to cover my 6cm, 6.5cm, .308, and .223. I think they are pretty much like what's posted above from what he said. A rod with a reamer shape on the end with an o ring but I will post some pics as soon as they get in. Thanks again
 
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@CK1.0

If you strip your barrel of all the carbon you will see your barrel will look as your buddy described. Your carbon is filling in the edges of the grooves making them look skinny. Once you get down to metal you may find more fire cracking.

That said, I will say the the end of the chamber where the free bore starts looks damn good for having 3000 rounds on it. I just did a quick chamber clean tonight of my 6GT with less than half as many rounds on it and it looks 1000x worse than yours. Mine has been feed a diet of 105-115 grain bullets pushed by H4350.

This barrel only has 1500rds on it.

That 3000 number came from another guy throwing it around while trying to say that I'm saying something that I'm not.

I still don't really know what's going on with the lack of erosion on my lands, but I also haven't been able to find anything out there about anyone doing the same "experiment" (running slow and jumping a bunch for the life of the barrel) as I've been doing for this barrel and my last one.

If I didn't already have a couple of 6GT barrels and 300rds of 6GT loaded and on deck, I'd consider running another one of these 6CM barrels just to see if the same phenomenon continues...
 
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@CK1.0

Are you going to run Staball in the GT as well? I’d think it would do the same or better in the smaller case.

For the GT, I've got 16lbs of Shooter's World Precision Rifle (AKA "fake Varget"), that'll get me through the first barrel, not sure what I'll use after that... JMHO but the only reason to choose 6GT over 6CM is to be able to use Varget (or the SWPR stuff).

I've had good luck with StaBall though, for me, it's only really been wonky this time of year (winter/colder), otherwise great.

I have considered reconfiguring my reloading room so I can load the 6mm rifle stuff on my Dillon, Mr. Bullet Feeder and just dropping Staball straight into cases for practice stuff though.... would be fast and probably shoot fine for everything besides matches where I've spent a good chunk of $$$ to attend.
 
For the GT, I've got 16lbs of Shooter's World Precision Rifle (AKA "fake Varget"), that'll get me through the first barrel, not sure what I'll use after that... JMHO but the only reason to choose 6GT over 6CM is to be able to use Varget (or the SWPR stuff).

I've had good luck with StaBall though, for me, it's only really been wonky this time of year (winter/colder), otherwise great.

I have considered reconfiguring my reloading room so I can load the 6mm rifle stuff on my Dillon, Mr. Bullet Feeder and just dropping Staball straight into cases for practice stuff though.... would be fast and probably shoot fine for everything besides matches where I've spent a good chunk of $$$ to attend.
I loaded a ladder with StaBall for my 18" 6 creed with 80 and 87 gr bullets last night. Hoping to get decent velocity even in the cold.
 
I loaded a ladder with StaBall for my 18" 6 creed with 80 and 87 gr bullets last night. Hoping to get decent velocity even in the cold.

IME I've lost ~50fps (or more) in the winter/cold with StaBall (2 years in a row), so don't get too greedy for speed if any of the loaded rounds will hang around until summer lol.
 
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I’ve been running my last two 6CM barrels fairly slow with both staball and n160. I still observe about 4K/100 erosion on average, faster towards the end of barrel life. Still only got 1600 out of the first one, hoping this osprey goes a little longer but I haven’t run it quite as hot.
Just adding a data point.
 
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I’ve been running my last two 6CM barrels fairly slow with both staball and n160. I still observe about 4K/100 erosion on average, faster towards the end of barrel life. Still only got 1600 out of the first one, hoping this osprey goes a little longer but I haven’t run it quite as hot.
Just adding a data point.

If you don't mind: how far are you loading them off the lands? ...and what type of bullet (tangent ogive, hybrid, or secant/VLD)?

Just curious...
 
If you don't mind: how far are you loading them off the lands? ...and what type of bullet (tangent ogive, hybrid, or secant/VLD)?

Just curious...

First 1,000 were 105 scenars (N160, 2980) at 100k off, last 600 were 112 Matchburners (Staball, 2950) at 200K off. 28" barrel, suppressed. I ran this barrel hard.

Second barrel is 115 DTACs (N160, 2950) at 20k off. 22", suppressed. Much less mild, but wearing about the same. I've stopped measuring this one because I think it's more trouble than it's worth.

Barrel pulled and scrubbed down pretty clean before measuring with a plunk, barrel off. I'm 95% certain I was tracking touch w/in 1k for each measurement. Borescope showed some pretty wicked erosion and firecracking when I pulled #1. #2 looks about the same at 600 rounds (pretty good, maybe a smidge less firecracking), but it's also a different manf., cut (not button), length, twist, and grove setup. Not really apples/apples.
 
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This is an update to post #1,017... in case anyone is wondering, this is a good chunk of the "why/how" a barrel and load using a healthy bullet jump stays so consistent (boring) over its life...

I was having more issues than usual holding a tight group lately, so I started checking my rig looking for a reason as to why (I mean besides me sucking at shooting lol). This meant going over the whole rifle to verify that everything was torqued to spec (action screws, scope mount, etc) and then looking at the possibility that my throat had eroded to the point where my load needed to be tweaked or even maybe me having to work up a new load.

Well, turns out it wasn't the barrel/load (my trigger pull-weight had increased on its own, doubled in weight somehow).

That said, decided to check on my throat erosion: I use/recommend the Deep Creek Method to find one's lands using a dummy round made up of the same ingredients, same brass, same bullet, prepared exactly like the real ones.

I'm jumping 0.100" to the lands (112gr Match Burners, also running "slow" at ~2900fps).

The barrel now has 1500rds on it.

The barrel when new after 150 rounds on it: lands @ 2.2550". After 1500 rounds on it: lands @ 2.2545" (actually could be zero, really tough to call if I wasn't closing the calipers too hard once within a thou).

Edit: Remember, loaded in closer to the lands (like the ubiquitous .020" off) usually means cooking off ~0.006" per 100 rounds!!! (https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/03/24/how-fast-does-a-barrel-wear/)

Crazy.

View attachment 8018736
I have seen this exact same thing with the barrel throat at .020. I shoot 109's and hit max COAL for my mag. So now I'm jumping .120! And shoot great. Same powder charge. 40.2 RL16, Hornady Brass, 210m

I lost .014 in 300 rounds
 
Last edited:
This is an update to post #1,017... in case anyone is wondering, this is a good chunk of the "why/how" a barrel and load using a healthy bullet jump stays so consistent (boring) over its life...

I was having more issues than usual holding a tight group lately, so I started checking my rig looking for a reason as to why (I mean besides me sucking at shooting lol). This meant going over the whole rifle to verify that everything was torqued to spec (action screws, scope mount, etc) and then looking at the possibility that my throat had eroded to the point where my load needed to be tweaked or even maybe me having to work up a new load.

Well, turns out it wasn't the barrel/load (my trigger pull-weight had increased on its own, doubled in weight somehow).

That said, decided to check on my throat erosion: I use/recommend the Deep Creek Method to find one's lands using a dummy round made up of the same ingredients, same brass, same bullet, prepared exactly like the real ones.

I'm jumping 0.100" to the lands (112gr Match Burners, also running "slow" at ~2900fps).

The barrel now has 1500rds on it.

The barrel when new after 150 rounds on it: lands @ 2.2550". After 1500 rounds on it: lands @ 2.2545" (actually could be zero, really tough to call if I wasn't closing the calipers too hard once within a thou).

Edit: Remember, loaded in closer to the lands (like the ubiquitous .020" off) usually means cooking off ~0.006" per 100 rounds!!! (https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/03/24/how-fast-does-a-barrel-wear/)

Crazy.

View attachment 8018736
Also if you haven't already... This is an interesting conversation to listen too. It's the project manager from Hornady digging deep into shot groups and why they can be miss leading.

 
Also if you haven't already... This is an interesting conversation to listen too. It's the project manager from Hornady digging deep into shot groups and why they can be miss leading.



That will make a lot of guys around here cry lol. 😂

That stuff isn’t that new to me though, that’s how I’ve been doing it since the start: numbers/fact not BS.

I was a longtime high-round-count IDPA/USPSA shooter before I ever shot rifles, so when I got into rifles I didn’t have any issues with saying “that’s BS” to many of the myths that a lot of rifle guys hold dear to their hearts like “nodes” and shit like that lol.
 
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That will make a lot of guys around here cry lol. 😂

That stuff isn’t that new to me though, that’s how I’ve been doing it since the start: numbers/fact not BS.

I was a longtime high-round-count IDPA/USPSA shooter before I ever shot rifles, so when I got into rifles I didn’t have any issues with saying “that’s BS” to many of the myths that a lot of rifle guys hold dear to their hearts like “nodes” and shit like that lol.
I'm a believer now. I did the node finding, thread chasing... don't see any difference as the video claims. I dont clean pockets, don't uniform, don't neck trim, don't anneal, and rarely trim. If I do trim I do it once to bottom of Sammi think it's set at 1.915. I just toss my brass in the wet tumber, lube, punch out the primer in full length resizing die that bumps the shoulder .002. prime, charge, seat. Had SD as low as 4 with 5 round groups at 1/2" and 10 round at .8 or under. I think the benchrest and fclass guys get pretty crazy. Those methods have just been passed down and taught to be the standard. The data in that video shows... It doesn't matter much which is pretty heart breaking. I remember sorting brass by weight and then case volume. Came along way from that.
 
I'm going to start reloading for my 6mm cm. I'm using hornady brass. I have some staBall 6.5 and barnes 112 match burners coming.
I'm new to reloading and I can't find any published data with my combination of bullet and powder.
I did compare the burn rates of powders that I could find used with the 112s.
Accurate 4350 is slightly faster. Would it be safe to start just below the minimum listed for accurate 4350 but use StaBall 6.5?
I've tried searching this site and the www but not finding a definite answer.
Thanks for any help.
 
I'm going to start reloading for my 6mm cm. I'm using hornady brass. I have some staBall 6.5 and barnes 112 match burners coming.
I'm new to reloading and I can't find any published data with my combination of bullet and powder.
I did compare the burn rates of powders that I could find used with the 112s.
Accurate 4350 is slightly faster. Would it be safe to start just below the minimum listed for accurate 4350 but use StaBall 6.5?
I've tried searching this site and the www but not finding a definite answer.
Thanks for any help.

I have a good bit of testing and my load for 6cm with Staball. Let me get the kids in bed and I will post it for you. I only have it in lapua brass though so drop down enough to be safe and work up. Stand by for more info
 
I'm going to start reloading for my 6mm cm. I'm using hornady brass. I have some staBall 6.5 and barnes 112 match burners coming.
I'm new to reloading and I can't find any published data with my combination of bullet and powder.
I did compare the burn rates of powders that I could find used with the 112s.
Accurate 4350 is slightly faster. Would it be safe to start just below the minimum listed for accurate 4350 but use StaBall 6.5?
I've tried searching this site and the www but not finding a definite answer.
Thanks for any help.

With a 108bt Berger, in Lapua brass, I initially started at 40 and went to 43.8, for pressure. I then narrowed it and went from 41.9 - 43.7 for POI testing. I settled on 42.65gr of 6.5Staball and it's good. You should be good to go starting at 40.0
 
I have been following the 6Creed for a good while and finally swapped in a CrownRidge 7.5 T 25" on a Savage model 10.
I am waiting for some heavy projectiles to come in and I had some 90 Gr ELDXs that were used in my .243. I noticed that several people asked about them in the Creed. Just because I have a lot of H100v I thought I would try it.
I used the Gordon's Reloading tool which seems good, but their data seems to be very fast compared to what I got.
I shot 41- 41.5-42 - 42.5
41=2090 FPS 42.5=3130 FPS
41.5 gave the best groups @ 3020FPS
according to the software the 42.5 is approaching maximum pressure. I never observed any pressure signs on any of the brass. With the reputation of being a barrel burner and the 90 ELDX being for plinking and Varmints my opinion is the 41.5 should work just fine.
If you would like more detail just message me.
 
Just an interesting data point for anybody shooting 109s and 110 a-tips Loaded 10 rounds @ 40 grains of 4451, cci450, jumping.040, 5 eld m 109, 5 a-tip 110. 5 fps difference no shift in poi. A-tip 3040. 109 3045
5068E1FF-C36D-4166-A8D5-8AD46863E7E4.jpeg
 
Not sure how many here use the Gordons reloading tool. Someone pointed out that there is a function called OBT. Optimum Barrel Timing,
I have been trying to duplicate the Hornady factory loading fornthe 105 Gr. Black load. Info on the box says FPS is 2960. It is stupid accurate in my rifle.
After running OBT the program said I was 1 Grain off from Optimum and the speed listed is very close to 2960
full-25199-376978-screenshot_98._obt.png
 
Did a long range shoot last weekend. Just for fun took the 109 ELDm out to 2070 yards. Density altitude of 6300, muzzle velocity of 3000. Drop was 27.8 mil. They were transonic at 1650 yards. Took 4 shots to get on plate then 3 in a row. 2 x 1.5 MOA plate. All the bullets went through the target stable. (10 gauge steel, 1 bullet left the core imbedded in the steel.)
 
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I’m new to precession shooting, my question is, wha would be a good load for a Aero prec AR10 have a Proof 22” carbon fiber barrel 1/8 twist shooting suppressed? The powders I have are RL17, Rl26, H414, Imr 4198,3031, H4895, IMR4225? Also if I want to go subsonic what do you recommend?
 
So ou don’t rec going subsonic with a 6mm creedmor?
The question is why you would want to do it, what is your intended purpose? 6mm bullets are light and if you plan to hunt with subsonic you won't have much Kinetic Energy. It would need to be small game and fairly close at that. That's why most of the subsonic rounds you see are 30 cal and up to have heavy bullets that still pack a bit of punch around 1000 feet per second. Not to mention you would likely not stabilize a subsonic round with your standard 7-8 twist barrel.
 
I going to call BS on those that say 6CM is a barrel burner and inherently has shitty barrel life. Keep the speeds reasonable and use a healthy jump and it's about like any other 6mm more or less.

Cattle gate and Shmedium, 35% IPSC, and a couple of poppers at 750 yards, 2875fps jumping 100 thou (not bad for a barrel that has 2900rds on it):

tempImagecA5dvY.pngtempImagekm7sT8.png
 
I going to call BS on those that say 6CM is a barrel burner and inherently has shitty barrel life. Keep the speeds reasonable and use a healthy jump and it's about like any other 6mm more or less.

Cattle gate and Shmedium, 35% IPSC, and a couple of poppers at 750 yards, 2875fps jumping 100 thou (not bad for a barrel that has 2900rds on it):

View attachment 8142138View attachment 8142139
I hope I get even close to that. I'm at 1k and have been considering ordering a barrel. I'm right at 2900 and .090 jump.
 
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I hope I get even close to that. I'm at 1k and have been considering ordering a barrel. I'm right at 2900 and .090 jump.

You should be ok, I didn't do anything special.

For the first 2000rds or so I cleaned the barrel kind of like a wussy, probably babied it too much using only Bore Tech Eliminator, nylon brushes, and cotton patches, nothing more abrasive than that... and that probably protected the barrel more so than truly cleaning it because it left so much baked-on carbon behind.

Since then I've come around to using a borescope to monitor what I'm doing as I go, and now I'll use just about anything to clean the suckers every ~200-250rds. My favorite has been a slightly worn bronze brush with a little penetrating oil and a patch or two with a little Iosso on them wrapped around it, kicks ass and seems to do the trick every time.
 
You should be ok, I didn't do anything special.

For the first 2000rds or so I cleaned the barrel kind of like a wussy, probably babied it too much using only Bore Tech Eliminator, nylon brushes, and cotton patches, nothing more abrasive than that... and that probably protected the barrel more so than truly cleaning it because it left so much baked-on carbon behind.

Since then I've come around to using a borescope to monitor what I'm doing as I go, and now I'll use just about anything to clean the suckers every ~200-250rds. My favorite has been a slightly worn bronze brush with a little penetrating oil and a patch or two with a little Iosso on them wrapped around it, kicks ass and seems to do the trick every time.
I clean after every time I go out unless it's just a few rounds. I also use a bore scope and JB bore paste to go down to metal from time to time but not every time. I only have a couple comps the rest if this year since we do most of our shooting in the winter. I hope I can get 2k and get through next winter, if I do ill be very happy.
 
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I going to call BS on those that say 6CM is a barrel burner and inherently has shitty barrel life. Keep the speeds reasonable and use a healthy jump and it's about like any other 6mm more or less.

Cattle gate and Shmedium, 35% IPSC, and a couple of poppers at 750 yards, 2875fps jumping 100 thou (not bad for a barrel that has 2900rds on it):

View attachment 8142138View attachment 8142139

That's not bad at all. What powder & bullet?
 
Thanks man. I actually ordered 112 MBs yesterday for my 6cm. Hopefully they shoot as well as the 105s in my 6BR.

I dig the 112’s a lot, I’ve shot 3000+ of them since Covid and every thing else made DTACs/Hybrids/etc impossible to get a hold of. I hope they stay “cheap” forever lol.

I may try the 105s at some point, but there’s something cool about having the extra BC with the 112s when shooting “slower” ~2800-2900fps that has worked really well for me.

Please chime in with your experience versus the 105s once you get a chance to shoot some of the 112s…
 
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Please chime in with your experience versus the 105s once you get a chance to shoot some of the 112s…

I found the 112s grouped tighter and were more consistent on target than the 105s for me, in CM and BRA. I just couldn't push them fast enough in the BRA.

Probably unpopular opinion, but I liked the 112MB more than the 115 DTACs I had.
 
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Put a new barrel on for a national match last week. The old barrel came off at just short of 2200 rounds. It was still shooting well enough for local matches, measured the erosion and it was .130 total from new. Didn’t get to group it, as time was tight to get the other barrel/load ready for the match.

On The old barrel I had given up chasing the lands around 1100 rounds, and was jumping just over .100.

I am gaining more faith in not burning out the barrel as quick but I still won’t trust them for a big match after 1200-1400. (Yet) the rotate down to local/practice at that time.

I’ve been Running 110 atips and 109 eldm at 3030-3075 (h4350)
 
Put a new barrel on for a national match last week. The old barrel came off at just short of 2200 rounds. It was still shooting well enough for local matches, measured the erosion and it was .130 total from new. Didn’t get to group it, as time was tight to get the other barrel/load ready for the match.

On The old barrel I had given up chasing the lands around 1100 rounds, and was jumping just over .100.

I am gaining more faith in not burning out the barrel as quick but I still won’t trust them for a big match after 1200-1400. (Yet) the rotate down to local/practice at that time.

I’ve been Running 110 atips and 109 eldm at 3030-3075 (h4350)

Dang, having .130” of erosion in 2200rds running 3030-3075fps is nearly 10X what I had running 2875-2900fps over the same number of rounds (I lost .035”)…

I was jumping .100” the whole time, do you remember how far off the lands you were?
 
Anybody else liking R17 ? Im getting really good speed and accuracy with 42gr 105 Berger vld, average 3210 no pressure signs 8 twist 24” Carbon proof. Barrel only has about 60 rounds down the tube.