**6 Creedmoor**

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I did bump the about .006 back. I know it's a little much but I can't see that being a issue. One thing I have noticed my forster sizing die is tighter then any other die I have had. I usually use redding but wanted to give forster a try. I may grab a redding and just see if anything changes.

I've seen ejector marks with moderate charges when I bumped back more than 5k.

For sure no carbon ring at all. But this does have me wondering if my die is sizing the wedding to much and causing pressure.

I'd lean towards it not sizing the base enough - BR guys talk about 'clickers.' I'm always leery of brass not initially fired in that chamber. Check by resizing a case and seeing if it feeds/extracts smoothly, or if there's a hitch on primary extraction.


Failing that, I'm drunk and out of ideas.

 

[Andrew863]

I've seen ejector marks with moderate charges when I bumped back more than 5k.


I'd lean towards it not sizing the base enough - BR guys talk about 'clickers.' I'm always leery of brass not initially fired in that chamber. Check by resizing a case and seeing if it feeds/extracts smoothly, or if there's a hitch on primary extraction.


Failing that, I'm drunk and out of ideas.

After sized it does easily slide in the chamber and close silky smooth with no heavy close at all. I'll try and size the few I fired again with my usuall. 002 bump and see if there is any change at all. Thanks for the input.

 

[4O6shootist]

For sure no carbon ring at all. But this does have me wondering if my die is sizing the wedding to much and causing pressure.

Pressure will show from under sizing the web, vs over sizing. Experience this with 65cm and peterson brass. Redding typeS dies weren't cutting it. Switched to rcbs matchmaster, and problem solved.

 

[CK1.0]

IME 39.5gr of H4350 shouldn’t be showing pressure signs, I wouldn’t even be looking for pressure until I was at 42+ grains… Overdoing the bump sounds like the most likely culprit to me too.

Unrelated, but I don’t get the “down to bare metal” cleaning regime at all, sounds like a great way to ruin a barrel. We just need to clean the excess carbon out so it doesn’t speed up, or develop a ring, that’s it.

 

[Andrew863]

IME 39.5gr of H4350 shouldn’t be showing pressure signs, I wouldn’t even be looking for pressure until I was at 42+ grains… Overdoing the bump sounds like the most likely culprit to me too.

Unrelated, but I don’t get the “down to bare metal” cleaning regime at all, sounds like a great way to ruin a barrel. We just need to clean the excess carbon out so it doesn’t speed up, or develop a ring, that’s it.

I'm going to try and do my normal .002 bump and load some Peterson brass I have to see if anything changes. If not I'll get a new sizing die. On the cleaning it's just simple to keep it clean and that way when I get to the range every time I know where my starting point is.

 

[High Desert duck]

39.4 IMR 4451, virgin lapua 6cm SRP. Hornady ELD-M 109. Jumping .030. This is shot 31-40 on a new barrel. This group avg was 2975. End the day with the last ten shots going 3016. I know one of those flyers was me for sure.

 

[Lawnboi]

Can someone, or a few let me know the neck thickness of your 6 creed head stamped Lapua brass?

Looking to order some bushings for my sac die while they are in stock. Going to get a few just want to make sure I’m not buying anything that’s of no use

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Can someone, or a few let me know the neck thickness of your 6 creed head stamped Lapua brass?

Looking to order some bushings for my sac die while they are in stock. Going to get a few just want to make sure I’m not buying anything that’s of no use

It will most likely be a 270 bushing. That's what I use for my srp lapua for 6cm. You could do 269 also but 270 is what I'd bet on

 

[Shoots 700's]

Im running the .268 bushing from SAC

 

[Andrew863]

Can someone, or a few let me know the neck thickness of your 6 creed head stamped Lapua brass?

Looking to order some bushings for my sac die while they are in stock. Going to get a few just want to make sure I’m not buying anything that’s of no use

Mine is between .015 -.016. My die is honed to to .2680 but if I had it to do again I would get a .2705. I use a mandrel and that would still give enough for the mandrel to do its Jon.

 

[Lawnboi]

Appreciate the bushing sizes but looking specifically for measurements of the neck wall.

I normally size down .004 below no tension and then mandrel up to 2-3thou neck me soon.

Specifically will be ordering sac modular due bushings. If you put a bushing size I’d be curious to hear your process/ goal and tension results

 

[High Desert duck]

Can someone, or a few let me know the neck thickness of your 6 creed head stamped Lapua brass?

Looking to order some bushings for my sac die while they are in stock. Going to get a few just want to make sure I’m not buying anything that’s of no use

My loaded case is .272. That’s from two different lots

 

[Lawnboi]

Appreciate the replies.

 

[High Desert duck]

I normally size down .004 below no tension and then mandrel up to 2-3thou neck me soon.

That’s my technique as well

 

[Dogtown]

Got a 6mmC gas gun? Try N160

I'm running a 16" Bartlein 1:8 on an AR10. Because of the twist rate I'm focused on Berger 95 VLD TGTs, which just so happen to be readily available and still perform at distance (I've taken them to 1250 yards so far). Initially I tested out loads with H4350, RL17 and N550, all of which shot ok. Surprisingly, RL17 turned out to be the most consistent with this combo but in practical use it really got the barrel hot rather quickly and its temp stability is questionable. Going back to H4350 wasn't an improvement in that area. Still, it's not that big of a deal, especially if the focus is long range precision, however this rifle is kind of a "do everything rifle" for me with a 2.9-20x, offset T-1 and an assaulter bipod. So my intent was something softer shooting than the .308WIN barrel that was on it before, and that I could both run-n-gun with it and ring steel at distance.

Having lots of experience shooting N140 in heavy 5.56mm loads and knowing how it produces quite a bit less heat than double-base powders like N500-series, I thought I'd try N160 with the 6mmC. Results were really impressive! I did a powder range from 42.0 - 45.9 and looked at how the POI moved. 45.3gr was right in a node with single digit ES, and gave me a 5-shot clover inside of a one-inch sticky. Best of all, shooting a long series of 5-shot strings didn't heat the barrel up anywhere near as fast as the other powders I'd been using.

Bottom line: it's not going to be as fast as double-base powders, but the level of heat generation is noticeably less than the other popular powders for this combo.

Berger 95 VLD TGT
Fed Brass
CCI 34
45.3gr N160
3.787" COAL
2950fps out of a 16" barrel

 

[JuiceboxPNW]

Finally got to the point where I can start reloading. Could use some advice on seating depth. lands are at 2.255. What should I do for the next batch so I can get groups down as far as seating depth? was able to get about a .55 MOA group.

38.5gr of H4350
SMK 107
Ogive 2.2410
Proof 26"
CCI BR4 Primers
8.5 SD
2950FPS

 

[4O6shootist]

Finally got to the point where I can start reloading. Could use some advice on seating depth. lands are at 2.255. What should I do for the next batch so I can get groups down as far as seating depth? was able to get about a .55 MOA group.

38.5gr of H4350
SMK 107
Ogive 2.2410
Proof 26"
CCI BR4 Primers
8.5 SD
2950FPS

Smk like to be 5-10k into lands, or 15-25k off lands. Likely shoot well back around 70-90k off as well. Why did you pick 110k jump to start with? Magazine restriction?

 

[pucker]

Smk like to be 5-10k into lands, or 15-25k off lands. Likely shoot well back around 70-90k off as well. Why did you pick 110k jump to start with? Magazine restriction?

He’s at .014” now.

Finally got to the point where I can start reloading. Could use some advice on seating depth. lands are at 2.255. What should I do for the next batch so I can get groups down as far as seating depth? was able to get about a .55 MOA group.

38.5gr of H4350
SMK 107
Ogive 2.2410
Proof 26"
CCI BR4 Primers
8.5 SD
2950FPS

Due to statistical variance and sample size, I wouldn’t waste a bunch of rounds and barrel life looking for a better load or seating depth. Half minute will do just fine for most desired uses.

What is your use, and load goal?

 

[Baddog 0302]

Anyone try RL 15 in your 6 CM ? This past Jan *. I picked up a copy of Lyman's LR Precision Rifle Reloading Handbook. Just what every reloader needs, more data ? I tried Their accucary load with 107 SMK's , H 105 & H 108 ELDM's. From a rest all 3 were 5 shots in 1", I'm lazy and call it my country boy sniper by using a bipod, those go inside 1.75", both at 300 yds.

 

[4O6shootist]

He’s at .014” now

Too many zeros, long night of work. OP should ladder test at 500y, find your velocity nodes with tight vertical. With a 6 creed, one will likely be around current 2959, another mid 3000s. Load a seating depth test in the upper half the desired powder node and work back in 005" bto steps. I'm certain something will shoot. 107 & 142 smk have all shot very well for me.

 

[JuiceboxPNW]

Thanks everyone for the information. Was able to do the Eric Cortina method to find out what works the best.

.299 MOA
2.266 CBTO
38.5gr H4350
CCI BR4
Lapua SRP
Sierra 107 SMK
proof comp 26”
2950 FPS

 

[High Desert duck]

Thanks everyone for the information. Was able to do the Eric Cortina method to find out what works the best.

Speed?

 

[CK1.0]

Thanks everyone for the information. Was able to do the Eric Cortina method to find out what works the best.

.299 MOA
2.266 CBTO
38.5gr H4350
CCI BR4
Lapua SRP
Sierra 107 SMK
proof comp 26”

Sorry to be a bummer... but that's really close to the lands, groups like that probably won't last long. Which is fine I guess if you plan on chasing the lands and testing often (and don't mind burning up components and having a short barrel life).

The thing is, guys seem to forget... 0.020" or closer: EVERYTHING SHOOTS! (...for a little while anyways).

If I were a benchrest disciple seeking bug holes at 100 yards, then I'd just use fairly light neck tension and load every round to jam, wouldn't even bother trying anything else.

6CM eats ~0.005" of the throat every 100rds or so loaded that close to the lands. (https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/03/24/how-fast-does-a-barrel-wear/)

So (theoretically) if your lands were at 2.266" (from your first post) and you've settled on a load that's 0.011" off (2.255" CBTO), then after a couple of range trips (100rds) you'll be ~0.016" off, or after a 2-day match (200rds) you'd be ~0.021" off, or after both (300rds) you'd be ~0.026" off (or more than twice as far off the lands as the load you had decided on initially), so on and so forth...

This is why I've been drinking the bullet-jump kool-aid... I'm way too lazy and cheap to constantly be testing and tweaking my load through the life of a barrel. JMHO/YMMV

EDIT:

I'm not cutting a new trail here, over the last few years guys like Mark at Short Action Customs and Scott Satterlee (to name a couple), have already bushwacked the path... https://shortactioncustoms.com/bullet-jump-research/

I didn't mean to come off as a condescending dick (as some do on-purpose here on the Hide sometimes lol), but I really do feel like I can help my shooting brothers and sisters by maybe getting them to at least try a little more bullet-jump, in the name of longer barrel-life and having a more "durable" load (Satterlee's term, not mine).

Almost every other time I'm at my club someone will ask me what I'm shooting, and when I tell them I'm loading .100" off, they look at me like I'm full of shit, crazy, or both lol..! I usually have to show them how much space I've got left at the front of my mags. Most of them still don't believe me lol.

If your best group at 0.011" off was .299 MOA, I dare you to load up a few rounds at 4x that, so 0.044" off, and/or a few 8x that, 0.088" off... Then go shoot some groups with them.

Unless you shoot them drunk while standing on your head, they will not be 1.196 MOA or 2.392 MOA (4 and 8 x .299). I can pretty much promise it will surprise you how little they grow (and it's possible the "88 off" group may very well be smaller than the "44 off" group).

 

[JuiceboxPNW]

Speed?

2950

 

[CK1.0]

I'm not going to say the 112gr Match Burners are better than A-Tips or Hybrid 109's, they're not... but they aren't half as good either (even though they cost half as much).

112gr MB, jumping 100 thou, 41gr Staball, Fed 210 LRP, Lapua ex-22-250 8x fired

1250 yards, 5 shots on the IPSC (+ 2 on the popper to make sure it wasn't luck), calm conditions (~5mph), bag/bipod/bench, .310 G7 for $0.27 a bullet:

 

[Shoots 700's]

I have been running some Lapua 105 scenar L and H4350. Very accurate and lots of speed

 

[owyheerat]

I'm not going to say the 112gr Match Burners are better than A-Tips or Hybrid 109's, they're not... but they aren't half as good either (even though they cost half as much).

112gr MB, jumping 100 thou, 41gr Staball, Fed 210 LRP, Lapua ex-22-250 8x fired

1250 yards, 5 shots on the IPSC (+ 2 on the popper to make sure it wasn't luck), calm conditions (~5mph), bag/bipod/bench, .310 G7 for $0.27 a bullet:

View attachment 7941046View attachment 7941047

Good shooting! I may have to try some 112's in my Badrock 6CM

Thanks for sharing!

 

[CK1.0]

I was talking with a guy at my club the other day about how some reloading components can reach rock star status while others can end up with a reputation as being dogshit... and how most of this misinformation is fueled by guys who seem to hardly ever shoot beyond 100 yards.

I'm using Match Burners + Sta-Ball... which "the internet" (including the Hide) might have you believe is a recipe for total garbage... nope.

A-Tips and/or Hybrid 109's may indeed help me shoot a .3" group at 100yrds vs my usual .5" group I see with the MB's (though it might have more to do with the fact that I hardly ever shoot groups at 100 and therefore suck at it), but, in the big picture, fuck 100 yard groups, who cares lol!

I use a baby 7" wide x 12" tall IPSC at 750yrds to tell me if my load/gun is shooting ok. If I can empty a mag on it under calm conditions, without trying too hard, then there's no doubt: when I suck/miss, it's me, not the gun!

 

[260284]

Getting a 18" 6 Creed barrel for my thermal coyote rifle. I have Lapua SRP brass, 87gr V-max, and StaBall, 4451, 4166, Varget, H4831sc, and Rl16. Any suggestions on what would give me the best velocity?

 

[Dogtown]

 

[260284]

View attachment 7941715
View attachment 7941716
View attachment 7941717
View attachment 7941718

I did some research and 4451 looks like it gives decent velocity. Thinking about trying the 75 gr V-max for a little more velocity. I know I will give up some bc, but this is going to be a 300-350 yard max rifle at night.

 

[High Desert duck]

I did some research and 4451 looks like it gives decent velocity. Thinking about trying the 75 gr V-max for a little more velocity. I know I will give up some bc, but this is going to be a 300-350 yard max rifle at night.

I’ve been using 4451 with 105-110 grains. I like it. Works well. Current load is 38.9 with an 110 atip at 3100. (28” barrel)

 

[18Echo]

Not sure this is the place, but I just bought 1000 Tubb 115gr DTACS for a build. Should I go 7 or 7.5 twist and SAAMI freebore or something else for SA AICS mag length?

 

[nrspence]

7.5 twist. saami and .135 both work great with 115 dtacs from my experience.

 

[Ranger188]

7.5 tw. is fine
Shot the 110g SMK, they shot bug holes and they are the same or slightly longer (depends where you look)
Never had any luck with the DTAC's.
Would group 2 into one hole and throw the other out. Worked with them for a bit and finally gave up and tried the 110g

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

My 7.5twist shoots the 105, 108, and 109 perfectly so I would think that would be good for 115 also. A 7tw will probably work too

 

[18Echo]

Went with a 7twist Hawkhill @ 24”, .135 freebore from Blue Mountain Precision on Eric’s advice.

 

[30cal user]

Not sure this is the place, but I just bought 1000 Tubb 115gr DTACS for a build. Should I go 7 or 7.5 twist and SAAMI freebore or something else for SA AICS mag length?

depends on your altitude and tempratures a bit, 7.4 is most likely all you will need, sea level at 32F

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Went with a 7twist Hawkhill @ 24”, .135 freebore from Blue Mountain Precision on Eric’s advice.

Eric won't steer ya wrong. He does excellent work.

 

[nrspence]

Went with a 7twist Hawkhill @ 24”, .135 freebore from Blue Mountain Precision on Eric’s advice.

Eric did mine, shoots awesome. The .135 freebore works great.

 

[warnera1102]

So I am running low on the 105 Berger Hybrids and was looking a substitute, I have seen the 108ELDM and 115DTACs in stock, what are your thoughts? I have heard of some consistency issues with the DTACS but I have no personal experience.
I am running a 27" SAMMI spec proof for PRS, I have plenty of H4350 for loading

 

[High Desert duck]

So I am running low on the 105 Berger Hybrids and was looking a substitute, I have seen the 108ELDM and 115DTACs in stock, what are your thoughts? I have heard of some consistency issues with the DTACS but I have no personal experience.
I am running a 27" SAMMI spec proof for PRS, I have plenty of H4350 for loading

GA has 110 a tips on sale right now.

*Special* Hornady A-TIP CASE DEAL

<p>SPECIAL <span>LIMITED TIME DEAL ON CASES OF HORNADY A-TIP BULLETS 1000CT CASE PRICING!</span></p>

www.gaprecision.net

 

[owyheerat]

So I am running low on the 105 Berger Hybrids and was looking a substitute, I have seen the 108ELDM and 115DTACs in stock, what are your thoughts? I have heard of some consistency issues with the DTACS but I have no personal experience.
I am running a 27" SAMMI spec proof for PRS, I have plenty of H4350 for loading

Powder Valley has Sierra 107 SMK in stock right now. I haven't shot them in a creedmoor but they shot very well out of my 6BRA...

Sierra MatchKing Bullets .243 Diameter (6mm) 107 Grain Boat Tail Hollow Point

The Sierra .243 / 6mm 107 Grain HPBT MatchKing bullet is specially designed for improved ballistic efficiency and accuracy for experienced shooters.

www.powdervalleyinc.com

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

So I am running low on the 105 Berger Hybrids and was looking a substitute, I have seen the 108ELDM and 115DTACs in stock, what are your thoughts? I have heard of some consistency issues with the DTACS but I have no personal experience.
I am running a 27" SAMMI spec proof for PRS, I have plenty of H4350 for loading

Aren't the 108 Berger available? I shoot those and they are great. I have a good but and then am switching to the 109s I have but the 108's run great

 

[Cascade Hemi]

So I am running low on the 105 Berger Hybrids and was looking a substitute, I have seen the 108ELDM and 115DTACs in stock, what are your thoughts? I have heard of some consistency issues with the DTACS but I have no personal experience.
I am running a 27" SAMMI spec proof for PRS, I have plenty of H4350 for loading

DTACs can be hit or miss. If possible, buy 100 to see if you like them. If you do, buy enough for the [remaining] life of your barrel. Lot to lot consistency can be a problem; some people report being able to just tweak the new lot and get the same results as the lot they did load development for. I've had experience with the new lot absolutely falling apart. My experience is probably the minority though.

 

[warnera1102]

Aren't the 108 Berger available? I shoot those and they are great. I have a good but and then am switching to the 109s I have but the 108's run great

The 108 hybrids? I have not seen those old the VLD bullets

 

[John Glidewell]

The 108 hybrids? I have not seen those old the VLD bullets

Berger 108 BT Target bullet

 

[warnera1102]

Berger 108 BT Target bullet

Yup I found some, I may have to give them a try, hopefully they are as easy to develop a load as the 105 hybrid was.

 

[John Glidewell]

Very easy to tune. I gave up on finding any hybrids and got a few k of the 108s. Great shooting bullet.

 

[stalwart300]

So I am running low on the 105 Berger Hybrids and was looking a substitute, I have seen the 108ELDM and 115DTACs in stock, what are your thoughts? I have heard of some consistency issues with the DTACS but I have no personal experience.
I am running a 27" SAMMI spec proof for PRS, I have plenty of H4350 for loading

I ran/run Berger 109s.