**6 Creedmoor**
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
For the GT, I've got 16lbs of Shooter's World Precision Rifle (AKA "fake Varget"), that'll get me through the first barrel, not sure what I'll use after that... JMHO but the only reason to choose 6GT over 6CM is to be able to use Varget (or the SWPR stuff).
I've had good luck with StaBall though, for me, it's only really been wonky this time of year (winter/colder), otherwise great.
I have considered reconfiguring my reloading room so I can load the 6mm rifle stuff on my Dillon, Mr. Bullet Feeder and just dropping Staball straight into cases for practice stuff though.... would be fast and probably shoot fine for everything besides matches where I've spent a good chunk of $$$ to attend.
I loaded a ladder with StaBall for my 18" 6 creed with 80 and 87 gr bullets last night. Hoping to get decent velocity even in the cold.
IME I've lost ~50fps (or more) in the winter/cold with StaBall (2 years in a row), so don't get too greedy for speed if any of the loaded rounds will hang around until summer lol.
I’ve been running my last two 6CM barrels fairly slow with both staball and n160. I still observe about 4K/100 erosion on average, faster towards the end of barrel life. Still only got 1600 out of the first one, hoping this osprey goes a little longer but I haven’t run it quite as hot.
Just adding a data point.
Just adding a data point.
If you don't mind: how far are you loading them off the lands? ...and what type of bullet (tangent ogive, hybrid, or secant/VLD)?
Just curious...
First 1,000 were 105 scenars (N160, 2980) at 100k off, last 600 were 112 Matchburners (Staball, 2950) at 200K off. 28" barrel, suppressed. I ran this barrel hard.
Second barrel is 115 DTACs (N160, 2950) at 20k off. 22", suppressed. Much less mild, but wearing about the same. I've stopped measuring this one because I think it's more trouble than it's worth.
Barrel pulled and scrubbed down pretty clean before measuring with a plunk, barrel off. I'm 95% certain I was tracking touch w/in 1k for each measurement. Borescope showed some pretty wicked erosion and firecracking when I pulled #1. #2 looks about the same at 600 rounds (pretty good, maybe a smidge less firecracking), but it's also a different manf., cut (not button), length, twist, and grove setup. Not really apples/apples.
I have seen this exact same thing with the barrel throat at .020. I shoot 109's and hit max COAL for my mag. So now I'm jumping .120! And shoot great. Same powder charge. 40.2 RL16, Hornady Brass, 210m
I lost .014 in 300 rounds
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Also if you haven't already... This is an interesting conversation to listen too. It's the project manager from Hornady digging deep into shot groups and why they can be miss leading.
That will make a lot of guys around here cry lol.
That stuff isn’t that new to me though, that’s how I’ve been doing it since the start: numbers/fact not BS.
I was a longtime high-round-count IDPA/USPSA shooter before I ever shot rifles, so when I got into rifles I didn’t have any issues with saying “that’s BS” to many of the myths that a lot of rifle guys hold dear to their hearts like “nodes” and shit like that lol.
I'm a believer now. I did the node finding, thread chasing... don't see any difference as the video claims. I dont clean pockets, don't uniform, don't neck trim, don't anneal, and rarely trim. If I do trim I do it once to bottom of Sammi think it's set at 1.915. I just toss my brass in the wet tumber, lube, punch out the primer in full length resizing die that bumps the shoulder .002. prime, charge, seat. Had SD as low as 4 with 5 round groups at 1/2" and 10 round at .8 or under. I think the benchrest and fclass guys get pretty crazy. Those methods have just been passed down and taught to be the standard. The data in that video shows... It doesn't matter much which is pretty heart breaking. I remember sorting brass by weight and then case volume. Came along way from that.That will make a lot of guys around here cry lol.
That stuff isn’t that new to me though, that’s how I’ve been doing it since the start: numbers/fact not BS.
I was a longtime high-round-count IDPA/USPSA shooter before I ever shot rifles, so when I got into rifles I didn’t have any issues with saying “that’s BS” to many of the myths that a lot of rifle guys hold dear to their hearts like “nodes” and shit like that lol.
“That stuff isn’t that new to me though, that’s how I’ve been doing it since the start: numbers/fact not BS.”
Reloading Hipsters exist!
Reloading Hipsters exist!
If anyone is running a SAC Modular CM die and Alpha brass, please let me know your bushing and mandrel size.
I'm going to start reloading for my 6mm cm. I'm using hornady brass. I have some staBall 6.5 and barnes 112 match burners coming.
I'm new to reloading and I can't find any published data with my combination of bullet and powder.
I did compare the burn rates of powders that I could find used with the 112s.
Accurate 4350 is slightly faster. Would it be safe to start just below the minimum listed for accurate 4350 but use StaBall 6.5?
I've tried searching this site and the www but not finding a definite answer.
Thanks for any help.
I'm new to reloading and I can't find any published data with my combination of bullet and powder.
I did compare the burn rates of powders that I could find used with the 112s.
Accurate 4350 is slightly faster. Would it be safe to start just below the minimum listed for accurate 4350 but use StaBall 6.5?
I've tried searching this site and the www but not finding a definite answer.
Thanks for any help.
I have a good bit of testing and my load for 6cm with Staball. Let me get the kids in bed and I will post it for you. I only have it in lapua brass though so drop down enough to be safe and work up. Stand by for more info
I started at about 40.50 gn staball in peterson brass with 112s. I think someone else in the thread was running in the 41 area.
Starting around 40 is probably an ok bet.
Starting around 40 is probably an ok bet.
With a 108bt Berger, in Lapua brass, I initially started at 40 and went to 43.8, for pressure. I then narrowed it and went from 41.9 - 43.7 for POI testing. I settled on 42.65gr of 6.5Staball and it's good. You should be good to go starting at 40.0
I have been following the 6Creed for a good while and finally swapped in a CrownRidge 7.5 T 25" on a Savage model 10.
I am waiting for some heavy projectiles to come in and I had some 90 Gr ELDXs that were used in my .243. I noticed that several people asked about them in the Creed. Just because I have a lot of H100v I thought I would try it.
I used the Gordon's Reloading tool which seems good, but their data seems to be very fast compared to what I got.
I shot 41- 41.5-42 - 42.5
41=2090 FPS 42.5=3130 FPS
41.5 gave the best groups @ 3020FPS
according to the software the 42.5 is approaching maximum pressure. I never observed any pressure signs on any of the brass. With the reputation of being a barrel burner and the 90 ELDX being for plinking and Varmints my opinion is the 41.5 should work just fine.
If you would like more detail just message me.
I am waiting for some heavy projectiles to come in and I had some 90 Gr ELDXs that were used in my .243. I noticed that several people asked about them in the Creed. Just because I have a lot of H100v I thought I would try it.
I used the Gordon's Reloading tool which seems good, but their data seems to be very fast compared to what I got.
I shot 41- 41.5-42 - 42.5
41=2090 FPS 42.5=3130 FPS
41.5 gave the best groups @ 3020FPS
according to the software the 42.5 is approaching maximum pressure. I never observed any pressure signs on any of the brass. With the reputation of being a barrel burner and the 90 ELDX being for plinking and Varmints my opinion is the 41.5 should work just fine.
If you would like more detail just message me.
Just an interesting data point for anybody shooting 109s and 110 a-tips Loaded 10 rounds @ 40 grains of 4451, cci450, jumping.040, 5 eld m 109, 5 a-tip 110. 5 fps difference no shift in poi. A-tip 3040. 109 3045
Not sure how many here use the Gordons reloading tool. Someone pointed out that there is a function called OBT. Optimum Barrel Timing,
I have been trying to duplicate the Hornady factory loading fornthe 105 Gr. Black load. Info on the box says FPS is 2960. It is stupid accurate in my rifle.
After running OBT the program said I was 1 Grain off from Optimum and the speed listed is very close to 2960
I have been trying to duplicate the Hornady factory loading fornthe 105 Gr. Black load. Info on the box says FPS is 2960. It is stupid accurate in my rifle.
After running OBT the program said I was 1 Grain off from Optimum and the speed listed is very close to 2960
I might grab some atips since they seem to be available. I'm almost out of berger 109's
Did a long range shoot last weekend. Just for fun took the 109 ELDm out to 2070 yards. Density altitude of 6300, muzzle velocity of 3000. Drop was 27.8 mil. They were transonic at 1650 yards. Took 4 shots to get on plate then 3 in a row. 2 x 1.5 MOA plate. All the bullets went through the target stable. (10 gauge steel, 1 bullet left the core imbedded in the steel.)
I’m new to precession shooting, my question is, wha would be a good load for a Aero prec AR10 have a Proof 22” carbon fiber barrel 1/8 twist shooting suppressed? The powders I have are RL17, Rl26, H414, Imr 4198,3031, H4895, IMR4225? Also if I want to go subsonic what do you recommend?
Usually around the 4350 burn range, so I'd start with RL17. Also depends on what bullet you run.
A different caliber.
I wouldn't recommend going sub with 6cm either. I have a feeling u will be the only person to ever do it.
The question is why you would want to do it, what is your intended purpose? 6mm bullets are light and if you plan to hunt with subsonic you won't have much Kinetic Energy. It would need to be small game and fairly close at that. That's why most of the subsonic rounds you see are 30 cal and up to have heavy bullets that still pack a bit of punch around 1000 feet per second. Not to mention you would likely not stabilize a subsonic round with your standard 7-8 twist barrel.
I going to call BS on those that say 6CM is a barrel burner and inherently has shitty barrel life. Keep the speeds reasonable and use a healthy jump and it's about like any other 6mm more or less.
Cattle gate and Shmedium, 35% IPSC, and a couple of poppers at 750 yards, 2875fps jumping 100 thou (not bad for a barrel that has 2900rds on it):
Cattle gate and Shmedium, 35% IPSC, and a couple of poppers at 750 yards, 2875fps jumping 100 thou (not bad for a barrel that has 2900rds on it):
I hope I get even close to that. I'm at 1k and have been considering ordering a barrel. I'm right at 2900 and .090 jump.
You should be ok, I didn't do anything special.
For the first 2000rds or so I cleaned the barrel kind of like a wussy, probably babied it too much using only Bore Tech Eliminator, nylon brushes, and cotton patches, nothing more abrasive than that... and that probably protected the barrel more so than truly cleaning it because it left so much baked-on carbon behind.
Since then I've come around to using a borescope to monitor what I'm doing as I go, and now I'll use just about anything to clean the suckers every ~200-250rds. My favorite has been a slightly worn bronze brush with a little penetrating oil and a patch or two with a little Iosso on them wrapped around it, kicks ass and seems to do the trick every time.
I clean after every time I go out unless it's just a few rounds. I also use a bore scope and JB bore paste to go down to metal from time to time but not every time. I only have a couple comps the rest if this year since we do most of our shooting in the winter. I hope I can get 2k and get through next winter, if I do ill be very happy.
Sta-Ball 6.5 (-41gn) and 112gn Match Burners
I only lost ~35 thou from the lands/throat compared to new at ~2200rds.
Thanks man. I actually ordered 112 MBs yesterday for my 6cm. Hopefully they shoot as well as the 105s in my 6BR.
I dig the 112’s a lot, I’ve shot 3000+ of them since Covid and every thing else made DTACs/Hybrids/etc impossible to get a hold of. I hope they stay “cheap” forever lol.
I may try the 105s at some point, but there’s something cool about having the extra BC with the 112s when shooting “slower” ~2800-2900fps that has worked really well for me.
Please chime in with your experience versus the 105s once you get a chance to shoot some of the 112s…
I found the 112s grouped tighter and were more consistent on target than the 105s for me, in CM and BRA. I just couldn't push them fast enough in the BRA.
Probably unpopular opinion, but I liked the 112MB more than the 115 DTACs I had.
Put a new barrel on for a national match last week. The old barrel came off at just short of 2200 rounds. It was still shooting well enough for local matches, measured the erosion and it was .130 total from new. Didn’t get to group it, as time was tight to get the other barrel/load ready for the match.
On The old barrel I had given up chasing the lands around 1100 rounds, and was jumping just over .100.
I am gaining more faith in not burning out the barrel as quick but I still won’t trust them for a big match after 1200-1400. (Yet) the rotate down to local/practice at that time.
I’ve been Running 110 atips and 109 eldm at 3030-3075 (h4350)
On The old barrel I had given up chasing the lands around 1100 rounds, and was jumping just over .100.
I am gaining more faith in not burning out the barrel as quick but I still won’t trust them for a big match after 1200-1400. (Yet) the rotate down to local/practice at that time.
I’ve been Running 110 atips and 109 eldm at 3030-3075 (h4350)
Dang, having .130” of erosion in 2200rds running 3030-3075fps is nearly 10X what I had running 2875-2900fps over the same number of rounds (I lost .035”)…
I was jumping .100” the whole time, do you remember how far off the lands you were?
Started at .005 off. Almost every shot on it was match conditions. Including an Utah match with multiple 12 round stages at 95+ degrees and no shade. It had a rough life. Only ever dropped about 30 fps though.
Lol, .005 off, hot matches, think that explains it!
It’s a great powder, but you need to make sure it’s safe in the hot weather if you are settling on a load now.
I used it some with 6.5 Creedmoor. Didn’t use it long as I happened onto RL16 and 23 and haven’t looked back. The temp stability was worth the change, but I’d use it again in a pinch if it’s all I had to work with. Had a couple buddies using it too. They learned their winter loads are way fast or over pressure in the middle of the summer once things heated up. Once adjusted thing were good again.
