Does anyone know the minimum/maximum 6mm Creedmore Varget specs for 105 gr Berger Hybrid? Or any pet loads?
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6mm Creedmore Varget loads?
- Thread starter Boatninja
- Start date
from the research i have done you will hit pressure before hitting a decent velocity. Need to run a slower powder. But i have not tried anything other than powders that are optimal RL16 and H4350 in my 6 creed. Way i always looked at it, someone has already done the homework when when 75% of recipes posted with berger 105s are with those powders.
I am running a 16.5 " barrel, I was thinking faster burning would mean more powder burned than slower powder. Is this wrong? I found loads on load data site but not min/max. I have my finger on the button, I value any input, Flaming Rookie!!!
not sure about the barrel length and faster powder, also not sure i have read about a 16.5 6 creed. If you were doing a short barrel 6 mm, maybe a case that had less capicity would benefit from varget. but check reloading depot for recipes a large percentage of prs shooters are running 105s in their creed or other 6mm variant.
Yes, the best powder for a bullet will be the best powder regardless of barrel length (assuming its a reasonable barrel length and not a 7" creed or something that requires special consideration). Most powder is burned within a few inches of the chamber. As such the majority of your pressure and velocity will be gained there.
I wish I had quickload to insert your 6 creed data for and give comparison charts between varget and h4350, maybe someone else will do that.
In this image, its for a 308 using varget, but in the first 6-7" the bullet goes from 0 to 2000 fps, it has to go another 9" to gain just 500 fps. Using a powder that its too fast will give you more pressure with less resulting velocity. A shorter barrel will just stop the chart sooner, not alter the pressures and velocity that is gained before the barrel ends.
And here you see that RL17 (from a different source so who knows what the rest of the backing data actually is but its a comparison image I could find) that it makes the same velocity with less pressure, shove in more powder to equal the above varget and youll get more velocity. Which is exactly what the rl powders are known for, just traditionally they are more temperature sensitive, the new introduced powders such as rl16 seem to have fixed that issue.
Both RL17 and varget are ideal powders though so not really a great comparison. But you can see that most velocity is gained right away though.
Think of powder burn rate as more bullet weight dependent than barrel length dependent.
Edit: I found one, shot gun powder vs magnum powder in a 300 wm.
Both hit the same peak pressure of 52kpsi or so, the shotgun shoots way up high and then drops off immediately. Gets to 1500 fps in 5", at 22" its only going 2250 fps
The mag powder is slower to rise. But in 5" it is still going 1600 fps so 100 fps faster than the shotgun owder. Notice that it continues to build though where as the clay powder above starts to flatten out as the barrel length continues, at 22" its going 3100 fps instead of 2,250 like the shot gun.
I wish I had quickload to insert your 6 creed data for and give comparison charts between varget and h4350, maybe someone else will do that.
In this image, its for a 308 using varget, but in the first 6-7" the bullet goes from 0 to 2000 fps, it has to go another 9" to gain just 500 fps. Using a powder that its too fast will give you more pressure with less resulting velocity. A shorter barrel will just stop the chart sooner, not alter the pressures and velocity that is gained before the barrel ends.
And here you see that RL17 (from a different source so who knows what the rest of the backing data actually is but its a comparison image I could find) that it makes the same velocity with less pressure, shove in more powder to equal the above varget and youll get more velocity. Which is exactly what the rl powders are known for, just traditionally they are more temperature sensitive, the new introduced powders such as rl16 seem to have fixed that issue.
Both RL17 and varget are ideal powders though so not really a great comparison. But you can see that most velocity is gained right away though.
Think of powder burn rate as more bullet weight dependent than barrel length dependent.
Edit: I found one, shot gun powder vs magnum powder in a 300 wm.
Both hit the same peak pressure of 52kpsi or so, the shotgun shoots way up high and then drops off immediately. Gets to 1500 fps in 5", at 22" its only going 2250 fps
The mag powder is slower to rise. But in 5" it is still going 1600 fps so 100 fps faster than the shotgun owder. Notice that it continues to build though where as the clay powder above starts to flatten out as the barrel length continues, at 22" its going 3100 fps instead of 2,250 like the shot gun.
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By the way, using Hornady, match grade ammo, my velocity loss was 210fps as compared to their published velocities. I also dumped some of those same loads and found a difference of one grain of powder in three cartridges which motivated me further towards reloading my own.
Is that the ogive measurement or entire cartridge? That is one of the things I'm getting confused about.
COAL =Cartridge Over All Length (COL Cartridge Overall Length)
CBTO= Case Base To Ogive
Unfortunately many use the terms interchangeably/incorrectly so you really just have to know what the provided measurement should be. Knowing that its a 2.7 number that would have to be overall length, the creed cbto would be in the 1.9X- 2.lowX region as shown with the red line, its in between the 1.920 number of the max case length and the 2.5 of the minimum COAL.
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I'm adding 6mm creed to quickload, but I need a case capacity for it. How many grains of H2O does it hold ?
31gr in this case is a 74% case fill, generating 36K psi in QL using 51gr as case capacity
OP, do not use ^^^^ this data
If you feel the need to use Varget, I'd start at 36gr. By QL, at 38.5gr you are getting up in pressure. Even then your case fill is under 92%. From my experience, if you are running small primer brass, with a magnum primer which is the rage, you may get some hangfires, maybe not.
Rolling the dice with a H4350 burn rate powder may be your best option
This is my advice, save the money on Reloading manuals and buy Quickload. In 30 min, with little knowledge of the program you can run so many options, looking at the numbers that matter, by changing powders, experimenting with barrel lengths, it'll change the way you at things.
The best thing to do is check case capacity of your by filling with water, Then you have the number. Hornady brass holds more than Lapua, or the newer US made options. Then if you mess with diff brass,, you have the capacity for all, change as you go.
But using 51gr will give you ballpark numbers but always use caution.
I don't have a case lol. My quickload does not have it. Just checked his website and only see the 2018 update. When is the 2019 coming out ?
I used 51.5 gr for Hornady, 51gr for Lapua, maybe someone could give you a number for ALpha. No clue on newer updates.
When you make the case, you will set capacity, it can be changed at any time, it reverts back to where you set it when you close the program out is all.
Milos suggestions of 51.5 for hornady and 51 for lapua are probably best but here is a clip from this years PRB caliber comparison
Charts like this are exactly why you want your own numbers. So many brands of brass. My numbers for 6x47 and XC were slightly less, and garbage in-garbage out applies. I need to weigh Dasher, yet to do it, QL does not come close to my numbers, lol
Not to be too off topic, but what is the general consensus is lead good for load development, lead sled or not? or is that like a ford/chevy type argument
No, skip the lead sled unless you have a physical impairment that requires you to use it.
The sled is a different recoil impulse than your body which can lead to different results on paper, it can also lead to actual material damage of the rifle if its a big booming cartridge, cracking stocks etc. The recoil needs a place to go, your shoulder is a soft forgiving buffer in which energy can dissipate, the sled is not. Would you rather crash your car into a bush or a big tree? The bush will be easier on your car, the tree will smash it up.
Follow spife's advice. I scratch my head when I see one in use, what friggin part of the real world does one bring to the table. My fav is watching someone zero'ing a hunting rilfe.
not varget, but ive tested 8208 before with 108 eld's in a 26" and got the following on the magneto...
34.6 - 2908 fps
34.9 - 2923
35.2 - 2948
35.5 - 2993
35.8 - 2998
36.1 - 2994
36.4 - 3033
36.7 - 3046
37 - 3073
single shot tests, just looking at speeds and pressure...pretty sure i started seeing pressure signs around 3000 fps...accuracy was good tho, it shot all the rounds inside 3/4"
for reference 8208 typically burns little faster than Varget, but both are pretty close
34.6 - 2908 fps
34.9 - 2923
35.2 - 2948
35.5 - 2993
35.8 - 2998
36.1 - 2994
36.4 - 3033
36.7 - 3046
37 - 3073
single shot tests, just looking at speeds and pressure...pretty sure i started seeing pressure signs around 3000 fps...accuracy was good tho, it shot all the rounds inside 3/4"
for reference 8208 typically burns little faster than Varget, but both are pretty close
I measured three Lapua cases and came up with 51.0 grain of water to the rim of the neck on all three cases.
It's pretty obvious I'm A Flaming aneture and thank's to all you guys by the help. I'm gonna try to find that website, I bought load data yesterday and was a bit disappointed, but it may be operator data, what is the website ya'll are using? Ok, I have rounds of H4350, 2 each at .2gr intervals from 39 to 42.4. too much doubt about Varget. I am going to pursue it more after this round. I am almost out of H4350 but have several other powders.
Website? The only website I really go to for load data is hodgdons own, it only includes theirs powder, IMR and Winchester powders (hodgdon owns all three). http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Quickload is an actual program you have to buy a CD to install it, no downloading off the web (archaic I know) https://www.neconos.com/details3.htm
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I run RL16, 41.2g @ 3100fps with a 105 berger hybrid. Since 4350 became obsolete a few yrs ago i have always been able to get RL16. check powder valley(H4350 in stock), natchez, brunos, third generation shooters supply, list goes on.
Did you mean Winchester powders? Western Powders is Ramshot, they also are distributors of Norma and Accurate powders.
My thoughts are if you're going to shoot with a large sled and competition and shoot with a leg sled and lead to development but basically to shoot good shoot off a back cuz that's the way you're going to do it
