That barrel seems pretty inexpensive for what you are getting. Any idea who’s blank they are using?
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6mm grendel?
- Thread starter Iwillylike2shoot
- Start date
I'd stick with the 243 LBC from BHW, but that's just me. That polygonal bore is every bit as good as they claim, and I'm seeing impressively high velocities with mine from several different powders.
And yeah, bushing dies suck for necking down cases. Good luck with that. Even a cheap Lee 6PPC sizer die would be a better choice.
And yeah, bushing dies suck for necking down cases. Good luck with that. Even a cheap Lee 6PPC sizer die would be a better choice.
The barrels are produced by contract 100 at a time to my specs, I designed the rifling button. They are my blanks just like the barrels WOA sells are his blanks or Wilson Combat sells are his blanks.
We sell thousands of barrels a year in several different calibers, there is no way possible for us to use Shilen, Pac Nor or any other small custom shop blanks and get enough to meet the demand.
As for the price, I don't put much markup on them definitely not anywhere near $175 like some do.
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Thanks for the info. It defiantly looks like you are getting a lot for your money with tryout barrels. I know a lot will depend on the ammo but are these barrels typically under 1 MOA. I know a lot of barrels come With a 1 MOA guarantee but I take those with a grain of salt.
I've seen some 1/4" groups but you can ask the guys here-https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045265505759375/
I haven't been on the hide in many years but started listening to the podcast.
True Sporting arms had a ridiculously cheap deal on BHW barrels without extensions for 35 dollars or with extensions for 45. They are unprofiled, no gas port etc. I ordered 2 20"x 1:8 twist 243 LBC barrels for 115 to my door with shipping. Since I have a lathe and mill, the rest is child's play. I already had Grendel Bushing dies although brass has been an issue because shipping is insane from most places. I need to call Alexander and explain it doesn't cost 40 dollars to ship 2 mags and 200 pieces of brass. Should all fit in a flat rate.
Is everyone running rifle length gas? Anyone running +2?
Ridiculously cheap if you have machining capabilities.
https://truesportingarmsllc.com/product-category/wildcat-cartridge/ar15-wildcat-cartridge/
True Sporting arms had a ridiculously cheap deal on BHW barrels without extensions for 35 dollars or with extensions for 45. They are unprofiled, no gas port etc. I ordered 2 20"x 1:8 twist 243 LBC barrels for 115 to my door with shipping. Since I have a lathe and mill, the rest is child's play. I already had Grendel Bushing dies although brass has been an issue because shipping is insane from most places. I need to call Alexander and explain it doesn't cost 40 dollars to ship 2 mags and 200 pieces of brass. Should all fit in a flat rate.
Is everyone running rifle length gas? Anyone running +2?
Ridiculously cheap if you have machining capabilities.
https://truesportingarmsllc.com/product-category/wildcat-cartridge/ar15-wildcat-cartridge/
Hey propeine, nice find! I like those barrels, and they do have some crazy good deals on their blowout sales occasionally. I've still got one of their 308 blanks sitting around waiting for a project for the same reason.
I'm using a 24" 243 LBC from BHW with rifle gas, and honestly wouldn't change a thing. I'd think the 24" would probably run fine on +2 gas as well, but on a 20" I wonder if you'd end up with a pretty big gas port to make that work.
You might go straight to Brownells for that brass and mags. Elander and ASC seem to be what works best, ASC for the longer seating depth.
I'm using a 24" 243 LBC from BHW with rifle gas, and honestly wouldn't change a thing. I'd think the 24" would probably run fine on +2 gas as well, but on a 20" I wonder if you'd end up with a pretty big gas port to make that work.
You might go straight to Brownells for that brass and mags. Elander and ASC seem to be what works best, ASC for the longer seating depth.
Yondering what's up dude!!
Thats what I wondered about the +2. I would have gone longer if they had it but for saving 300 dollars I'll give up 4". 9in of suppressor on the end will be nice on the shorter tube anyways.
Ya soon as Brownells has a decent sale I'll just snag it all I guess. Midsouth has better pricing til you add shipping. Same with Alexander.
Hope all is well with you!
Hey man, things are good here.
I still haven't threaded my 243 for a suppressor mount yet, but it's on the list. I'll be going with a 3/4" thread on mine to keep that muzzle diameter thick; it's a 3/4" straight profile in front of the gas block so I'll index the mount on the muzzle, and the only reduction in diameter will be the thread roots.
If you're buying components for this round - I've had good results with the Berger 95 VLD Hunting, and the Hornady 105 BTHP. CFE223 and Lever give the best velocity, but H4895 and Varget are right up there too. I'm using the 95 at ~2900 fps or a bit over, and the 105 at 2800 fps, all in Lapua brass.
I still haven't threaded my 243 for a suppressor mount yet, but it's on the list. I'll be going with a 3/4" thread on mine to keep that muzzle diameter thick; it's a 3/4" straight profile in front of the gas block so I'll index the mount on the muzzle, and the only reduction in diameter will be the thread roots.
If you're buying components for this round - I've had good results with the Berger 95 VLD Hunting, and the Hornady 105 BTHP. CFE223 and Lever give the best velocity, but H4895 and Varget are right up there too. I'm using the 95 at ~2900 fps or a bit over, and the 105 at 2800 fps, all in Lapua brass.
Yup sounds like where I'm at. I wish I had enough meat to build in my taper mount on the barrel honestly. Probably going .875 gas block, either superlative or a seekins switch.
Have you tried 8208? Thats the go to load with 95SMK (which I have) over on the BHW forums. If I can hit 2850 or so with a 95 out of that short barrel I'll be pleased. It may be a bit too short for that though. We shall see. That grendel case is really sized more appropriate for 6mm than 6.5 IMO though.
I'm not going to shoot mine suppressed anymore, they just get way to dirty way to fast.
Yeah, I worked with 8208 a bit with the 95 VLD-H and the 70gr TNT. I like this powder in the 6.5 Grendel, but think the burn rate is a little on the fast side for the smaller 6mm bore. With the 95 VLD and Lapua brass, I hit max with 29.2gr @ 2850 fps, while H4895 hit max at 2900 fps with the same charge weight. Neither powder shot as well with that bullet as CFE223 though in my rifle; my accuracy load with the 95 VLD is 32.4gr of CFE223 with S&B SR primers in Lapua Grendel brass, OAL at 2.235" for 2910 fps. (That short OAL shoots better than anything farther out, all the way to 2.300".) That load doesn't seem to be as temp sensitive as CFE223 usually is in other cartridges, in my experience.
OP, I've had a 6MM Fat Rat for a couple of years, if you'd like to know about it and how it performs let me know.
The build you see before you was done by Lee Wells he is the inventor of the 6mm Fat Rat. MK12'ish style build 22" Bartlein 5R 1-8 twist chambered in the Fat Rat Varmint (designed to be magazine-fed)Essentially it's a necked down 6.5 Grendel using the Whidden dies that you get from Lee Wells. Simple to reload, downsize the neck of a 6.5 Grendel and you're done, what's really interesting is the fire forming load is one of the most accurate loads for the rifle, consistently shooting 1/4 - 1/2 MOA. After the load is fire formed it blows the shoulder out .080 giving higher case volume over the standard 6.5G case. With the 107 SMK BC .527 I get over 2800FPS with the 22" tube. The 95gr TMKs are also good little shooters, I'd have to look at my reloading books to get you more specifics.
Only negatives that I've found, no store-bought ammo and the Lapua brass is a little spendy. you can use Hornady brass but I found you only get about three reloads out of them before you have to Shitcan them, between 8-10 with Lapua.
It's a hot little round, from 100-600 yards its absolute laser beam, just cuts the wind with ease. More energy down range compared to the valkyrie, you basically have a .243 in AR-15 platform.
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I like my 6mmFatRat too. 95smk at 2870 fps out of 22" and sub moa.
Whatever I build next time I'll be using a Bartlein or krieger. Probably a 22 caliber version with 95's.
Whatever I build next time I'll be using a Bartlein or krieger. Probably a 22 caliber version with 95's.
That sounds interesting I know there were a couple of shops building AR15s in 6mm BRX, but they've gone quite. Whitley's 6mm AR is the same as 243 LBC. For PRS the 6mm AR/243 LBC would be on the anemic side. It would be nice to find a 6mm AR15 compatible round you don't have to fire form. If one of the big brass makers picked up the 6mm AR Turbo 40 Improved that would be ideal.
View attachment 7040413
Just received this from 6mmar.com
6mm turbo 40°
I havent shoot it coz im still debating if im going to keep it
26" bartlein gain twist 8.5-7.75
Not being rude but what did you pay? Did you spec the barrel, or was that Whitely's recommendation? If you decide to sell it please keep me in mind, as I might be interested in the upper.
There is a guy over on accurate shooter that is building uppers in 6br and 6 dasher. He builds off of green mountain or bartlein blanks I believe. I almost had him build me one but I bought a Krieger barreled 6Fat rat instead.
How anemic are we talking? Not that I'm a competitor but it seems to be one of the better balanced (speed/BC) options on a small frame AR and is about 100fps/behind a valkyrie at 1000yd with a starting velocity of 2900 and BC of .45 (since you won't be at that .48 for long). I also don't know that the valk is enough either obviously. More curious than anything.
I don’t think the 243 lbc is anemic at all. I’ve shot is competitively in or local matches. They go out to 600 meter and I’ve had it out to 800 meters and it’s sufficient with the 95 grain sierras. A lot of people say the 6br is anemic at 1000 yards but it still hangs with the bloated dashers, brx, and bra guns once in a while.
It’s a wind game shooting any of these Grendel based chambers at 1000 yards.
I won a few night matches with my 6mmAR Turbo 40 shooting against bolt rifles, to be fair the wind was down and I don't think we shot as far as 1000Y, maybe 800Y.
Also placed higher in the day in the same venue, like in the top 5 a few times, never won a day match with it though.
Against other semi's it's a competitive cartridge but against bolt rifles you will have to have some luck on your side to win.
This new guy showed up to that same Field Course match I was referring to above. We shared contact info and the next months match he borrowed my AR in 6mmART40. He did good for his first time but after the match we started plinking at the long range steel. There was a 10" plate at 810Y, he kept hitting it over and over again with the AR I lent him. The rest of us for whatever reason couldn't do that with our bolt rifles, we tried hard but he did overcome us!!!
Also placed higher in the day in the same venue, like in the top 5 a few times, never won a day match with it though.
Against other semi's it's a competitive cartridge but against bolt rifles you will have to have some luck on your side to win.
This new guy showed up to that same Field Course match I was referring to above. We shared contact info and the next months match he borrowed my AR in 6mmART40. He did good for his first time but after the match we started plinking at the long range steel. There was a 10" plate at 810Y, he kept hitting it over and over again with the AR I lent him. The rest of us for whatever reason couldn't do that with our bolt rifles, we tried hard but he did overcome us!!!
Thanks guys. That's all I was looking for. I won't be "competitive" as a shooter regardless of what gun I'm carrying but as long as it hangs well with most any other semi I am comfortable. For me realistically it's a varmint gun but I would really like to get out and shoot a comp at some point this year. Local would be 3-5hrs away pretty much no matter what for my locale.
Steve good to see you're still around. I still have my parts for the long action Savage based on your posts from 6 or 7 years ago.
Steve good to see you're still around. I still have my parts for the long action Savage based on your posts from 6 or 7 years ago.
If you're looking at a 224 the 224 AR outpaces the Valkyrie.
The 6mm AR is anemic if you compare it to the 6mm T40i. From a practical standpoint the 6mm AR makes sense because all you have to do is resize and shoot, but the Turbo improved offers another 150 to 200 fps.
The Titan bolt is in the middle. The barrel, extension and bolt come as a combo. Bolts and extensions are not sold separately.
That sounds like a sweet little cartridge, but I feel too much creedence is given to elevation, and not enough to wind defelction. Elevation is a constant even a moron like me can figure out. Wind is where cartridges separate themselves in my book - how did it compare on wind holds?
In what wind speed? Theres not much coorelation b/w elevation and wind, and obvisouly as wind picks up, and distances get further, wind deflection goes up exponentially unlike elevation.
Where did you get the barrel from? I've been toying with one of Robert Whitley's builds either in 224 AR (aka 22 Grendel) or one of his 6mm AR Turbo 40 Improved (necked 6.5 Grendel).
I dont think youre understanding the question. At what velocities, wind speed/direction and distance is there the .1 mil difference? Using my atmospheric factors, and the velocities you gave above. there is about a .2 difference inside of 500, but then it goes all the way to a .7 difference at 1000 and then the wheels fall off at 1400 with a 1.3 difference. This is assuming a 15 MPH crosswind. Hence my point, the further and more wind there is, the more the 22 cal bullet really starts suffering, so its disingenuous to insinuate the the 22 grendel is on par with a dasher in the wind
I'm in the process of building a 243 LBC. CH4D has dies for the 243LBC. At least they did 6 weeks ago. They only had a few on hand.
Well I succumbed to the black friday hysteria and ordered a 243 LBC barrel from X-caliber.
Specs pasted from my invoice:
Configure Your Custom AR-15 Barrel
Barrel Steel: 416R Stainless Steel
AR Barrel Length: 22" [+$20.00]
Caliber & Twist Rate: (6mm) .237/.243 1:7.7" Twist 3R Groove
AR 15 Chambers: 6mm AR/.243 LBC (Adjustable Gas Block Required)
AR Gas System: Rifle + 2"
AR 15 Contours: AR15 Heavy .980, .875GB, 850
AR 15 Muzzle / Crown: 5/8"x24 Threads (.243-.358), 11° Crown
Finish: Matte [+$15.00]
I'm already regretting it a little. I love the simplicity of loading 223 but I've been thinking about a 22 or 6mm Grendel for years. The 22G wasn't an option, and the extra sizing steps make it less attractive. I went and necked down 200 cases to 6mm and it made me think this wildcatting thing won't be that bad.
Specs pasted from my invoice:
Configure Your Custom AR-15 Barrel
Barrel Steel: 416R Stainless Steel
AR Barrel Length: 22" [+$20.00]
Caliber & Twist Rate: (6mm) .237/.243 1:7.7" Twist 3R Groove
AR 15 Chambers: 6mm AR/.243 LBC (Adjustable Gas Block Required)
AR Gas System: Rifle + 2"
AR 15 Contours: AR15 Heavy .980, .875GB, 850
AR 15 Muzzle / Crown: 5/8"x24 Threads (.243-.358), 11° Crown
Finish: Matte [+$15.00]
I'm already regretting it a little. I love the simplicity of loading 223 but I've been thinking about a 22 or 6mm Grendel for years. The 22G wasn't an option, and the extra sizing steps make it less attractive. I went and necked down 200 cases to 6mm and it made me think this wildcatting thing won't be that bad.
Not sure. My standard procedure is to get a baseline load with the cheapest bullets available, in this case the Hornady 105's. Then burn up a bunch of barrel life experimenting with the highest BC stuff, I'll probably beat my head against a wall with the Nosler RDF's again too. Then halfway through the barrels lifespan I'll settle on the most accurate bullet, usually a Sierra, even if its not the cheapest or highest BC.
Someday I'll be smarter and just start with Sierra's and get an accurate load right away.
The Barnes 112 Match Burner looks interesting. A little extrapolating of other's data makes me think 2650 fps is possible, with a .62 BC it would be formidable.
I know. Every time I thought I had the .224 RDF's figured out I'd be shooting shotgun patterns the next day.
depending on freebore of ur chamber a 112bullet may take a lot of case capacity if seated very far into the case. The 95 stmks did well in mine.
Those that have run these 6mm variants far longer than me seem to think that ~95gr is the sweet spot. You just lose too much velocity with the heavies.
Because mine is a coyote gun first, I run the 87 v-max at ~2940. I'm starting to wonder why I also have a 6 Creed AR10...
Because mine is a coyote gun first, I run the 87 v-max at ~2940. I'm starting to wonder why I also have a 6 Creed AR10...
You should be good to go with that one.
This cartridge almost doesn't even qualify as wildcatting, it's so easy. If necking down requires anything more than a single pass through the die, you're doing something wrong, and this is a super easy cartridge to load for and there are a number of good powders for it.
Try the 105 BTHP and the 95 VLD-Hunting. That 95 shoots really well in my 243 LBC; even the worst loads were pretty decent, and better than the best RDF groups I've ever gotten (in other calibers).
Mine is a 24" barrel with BHW's Caudle rifling (so it may run a little faster); I shoot the 95 VLD at 2,925 and the 105 BTHP at 2775 fps. Those are accuracy loads for both, with good brass life. Lapua brass.
I also caved yesterday. I bought this barrel and a type 2 bolt. Not sure how I'm going to finish it out yet 
CB WO EXT 243LBC 1X8 20 1 - True Sporting Accessories
UN TURNED CHAMBERED BLANK WITHOUT EXTENSION 243LBC 1X8 20" 1" STOCK ***DISCONTINUED***
truesportingarmsllc.com
What bolt are you running? I bought a type 2 but I'm not sure if it's the right one.
Yeah, my reading tells me with the standard 243LBC chamber you can actually hit lands with mag length loads. I'm used to the mag being the limiting factor, not the freebore. So then my brain told me to cut mags and get the freebore reamed a little deeper and run 112's way out there! I'll resist the urge to go down that rabbit hole though.
I've got 95SMK's on hand, the BHW guys seem to think they're the gold standard bullet for 6G. I'll probably get Hornady and Barnes 105's on the way and the 95TMK's too.
Forming brass has been painless, but obviously I'm not shooting it yet so we'll see. I've got a ton of Hornady and some of the old AA/Lapua on hand, I'll see if the Lapua performs so much better that it offsets the cost difference.
The barrel this will replace is actually a BHW 223. I liked the barrel but never really noticed the speed increase that they claim. It always seemed right in line with what others were getting with the same load in conventionally rifled barrels.
The possibilities are endless!I also caved yesterday. I bought this barrel and a type 2 bolt. Not sure how I'm going to finish it out yet
CB WO EXT 243LBC 1X8 20 1 - True Sporting Accessories
UN TURNED CHAMBERED BLANK WITHOUT EXTENSION 243LBC 1X8 20" 1" STOCK ***DISCONTINUED***truesportingarmsllc.com
Spent some time playing theoretical ballistician, if I use reported real world BC's rather than manufacturer numbers and use 2750fps as an estimated 105 velocity and 2850 for 95's it looks like a wash. 95's are always a little flatter, 105's always a little less drift and more energy. A little more/less velocity on either isn't enough to really make one smoke the other, so I guess it will just come down to what shoots the best.
I can't find any good pics of the 112MB's next to other bullets, but if the profile is VLD-ish enough they might be able to be loaded long enough before hitting lands to get some velocity out of them.
I can't find any good pics of the 112MB's next to other bullets, but if the profile is VLD-ish enough they might be able to be loaded long enough before hitting lands to get some velocity out of them.
