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They did do a big run. I picked up 4 boxes from blue collar. Hopefully my barrel from PVA will be done in time for my axis hunt. Going to see what I can push a 140 Absolute hammer at out of the 20”
My 7 saum just landed on Thursday and I shot it yesterday. I’m shooting virgin brass and a brand new barrel so I know it will speed up some after 100-150 rds so I’m not pushing it yet.
My rifle:
Defiance anti-x xm length
25” 1:8 Benchmark fluted #4 with .180 freebore
Weighs 8lb 1 oz loaded with the 4-32 nx8 on top.
Load:
180 Berger Hybrid
ADG brass
60.3 Reloader 26
Cci 200 primer
Coal 3.025 (.045 jump in my rifle)
2845 fps and shoots in the .3’s
This load shows absolutely no pressure in my rifle due to the xm action and longer freebore. I’m guessing I will pressure out around 62 grains and velocity will be +/- 2950 ish but as well as it’s shooting I may not change a thing long term.
My rifle:
Defiance anti-x xm length
25” 1:8 Benchmark fluted #4 with .180 freebore
Weighs 8lb 1 oz loaded with the 4-32 nx8 on top.
Load:
180 Berger Hybrid
ADG brass
60.3 Reloader 26
Cci 200 primer
Coal 3.025 (.045 jump in my rifle)
2845 fps and shoots in the .3’s
This load shows absolutely no pressure in my rifle due to the xm action and longer freebore. I’m guessing I will pressure out around 62 grains and velocity will be +/- 2950 ish but as well as it’s shooting I may not change a thing long term.
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Have more details/pics of the rifle? Would love to see a hunting stick with all up weight in that area. The little bit I've played with rl26, it’s awesome but can mask pressure signs. I’ve had great experience with the saum and rl23 if you can find it. It was a more accurate powder in my rifle, running same speeds (targeting 2950ish with 180’s) for 2 grains less. You'll get more all out speed from rl26 though.
Manners UC Plus stock, Hawkins bdl metal, Bix trigger, Hawkins rings and Seekins bipod rail. 9# even with the Atlas on board.
Barrel is soon to be coated black as soon as the brake gets here hence the rubber cap on the muzzle threads
My new Coup de Grace action showed up last Friday and in about 15 minutes I had a Barlein 2B on it, Trigger Tech trigger, MDT Hunt 26 chassis, Dead Air can, and I put a Riton 7 Conquer on it for initial testing. Using my hunting load that I've used in 2 previous 7Saums it put 4 in a ragged hole and the shooter winked one about 1/4" to the side. Looks like it will shoot that load, might have to tweak a couple tenths but not much. Barnes 145 gr LRX fueled with CCI 250 and RL-17. Nasty combo on game. The new ARC action is extremely cool and has an incredible trigger hanger, I think this action is going to open a bunch of eyes.
Has anyone played with Vitavouri N560 in the 7 Saum? Looking for a place to start with 166 gr A-tip. RL-26 is AWOL so I need options.
Have a chronograph? Run a quick pressure ladder starting in the high 50’s, in .4 gr increments. That should give you either a load, or a place to start further development.
I played with Vit N560 x 166 gr Hornady A-Tips x CCI 250 x ADG brass in my new rifle. I loaded up 60, 60.5 & 61 grs of N560. 60-60-5 was very good accuracy sub 1/2 minute. 61 grs opened uo to a bit over an minute.. 2825 fps at 60, 60.5 was 2850 and 61 grs was 2875. This is in a 22 inch barrel so I consider that good speed. There were no pressure signs and I certainly could have gone higher. Right now I'll play around 60 and play with seating depths. Conditions were horrible but I was able to put a few in the same hole so it's very close. I've never really messed with Vit powder but I'm pretty impressed so far. One observation was after 12 rounds I could touch the can. That's not normal and I hope it wasn't a fluke.
I run 60.8 gr of N560. 162 Eldm at 2810. I can shoot bug holes, as long as I don’t have the shakes from a hard nights drinking.
I generally see sub 1/2moa at up to 500 yards.
I have been running 64 grains of n565 fed 210’s in adg brass topped with 180 grain hybrids for a labradar reading of 2975, I need to true it to see if it holds out but it put 5 shots in one hole at 100 yards. Mine is on a SR3 LA throated for the heavies.
I have settled on 60.2 grs of Vit N560 x 166 gr A-Tips x CCI 250 @2825 fps in a 22 in Bartlein Barrel. Very good accuracy and better velo that I was getting with RL-26.
Need some advice, what barrel length should I do? Thinking 18-24, will have a Nomad L in the end of it. This will be an elk pack rifle when its paid off, everything without the barrel weighs just a hair over 3 lbs, lone peak razor ti short action, bdl wyatts box. Plan on shooting 175EH. Also powder recommendations, have H1000, 4350, 565, 568, 570?
H1000 has worked well in the 4 7 Saums I’ve played with. n560 would be where I start with a shorter barrel.
I have been going 22" because I can always shorten it if I choose to. 20-22" seems to balance Ok with a can. N560 is working good but N565 might not be too slow.
If you take the bait, I will buy your 7 saum adg brass!
Thinking of spinning up a barrel for my BAT VR action. The goal is to hit a 2 mile target. Proposed bullet is 190+ grain bullets, sierra 197 or berger 190 or 195. Any suggestions on barrel twist? I'm looking to do a 29-32" barrel. I would appreciate any advice you all have.
I’m using an 8 twist for the 195 EOL. 7mm Rem Mag though (SAAMI chamber). 2880fps out of a 28” JC Custom with 66.5 grains of Retumbo. Just sent off my Manson reamer with a .260 free bore for the 190s. Going 8 twist again, but this time 29”. Can’t wait, N570 on hot standby.
7mm SAUM in stock with free shipping!
Is anyone running 190s in a short action? Even single feeding, just wondering how it works out.
I got sticky bolt with 183 SMK at 2960ish fps with H1000 and Retumbo. ADG brass, BR2, and 32 inch barrel. My 32 is only 100 FPS faster then my 26 inch barrel.
Wow, even with a 32" barrel, I'm impressed. I wouldn't have thought mag length was doable.
Any experience with N560 would be appreciated. Currently the only powder I can get.
Looking at using 162gr ELD-X and 180gr Bergers loaded at 2.9” mag length.
Looking at using 162gr ELD-X and 180gr Bergers loaded at 2.9” mag length.
180's at 61.5 grains is my load. 2850 in a 22"
162's i was around 62.5 grains i believe and close To 2900.
I've used it at a replacement for RL-26, with 166 gr A-Tips. Works good, I'm trying to remember the load but I know it's between 60-62 grs. I'll try to remember to look it up tonight.
Have you tested the temp stability at all? I haven't used it long enough to test.
I haven’t used it personally, but heard good things. My smith uses it in his personal 7saums
I haven't played with it that long. But from what I've seen so far it is a cleaner burning powder.
That's the powder I've been using for a few years now in the 7 SAUM with both those bullets, in two different rifles, with great results.
For the 180 gr Berger VLD Hunting, here's the specifics:
Rifle: ARC M7 Short Action with Bartlein 24” CF Left Hand Gain Twist Barrel (9 – 8.25)
Cartridge: 7 SAUM hunting load
Bullet: 180 gr Berger Hunting VLD
Brass: ADG
Powder: 58.6 grains VihtaVouri N560
Primer: CCI BR-2 large rifle
MV = 2780 fps @ 55F
For the 162 gr ELD-X, specs are as follows:
Rifle: Defiance Anti-X with Chanlynn 25” Left Hand Twist (1:9) Barrel
Cartridge: 7 SAUM hunting load
Bullet: Hornady 162 gr ELD-X
Brass: Norma 7 SAUM
Powder: 58.8 grains VihtaVouri N560
Primer: Federal Gold Medal Match 215M large rifle magnum primer
MV = 2956 fps @ 69F
I'm right at about 2.9" COAL on both loads and have found it's really best to embrace the 7 SAUM for what it is . . . a short action cartridge. I did try running it for a season in a long action but didn't have the right chamber geometry to really optimize that set up. While reliable, I found feeding in a long action to be less smooth than in a short action. Maybe it was having to push the cartridge along all that extra feed lip length.
Being a double base powder, N560 probably isn't going to be as temp stable as a good single base, but I think the velocity gain is a trade-off worth making pushing those heavy 180+ bullets in a short-magnum cartridge, especially at shorter barrel lengths. The 162gr ELD-X (or ELD-M at the same weight) are killers with velocity. I've been trying to gather some data points on temperature and have found the following variations in each load:
| 180 gr Berger VLD Hunting | ||
| 36 shots (OCW test) | 88F | 2780 fps |
| 5 shots | 79F | 2749 fps |
| 21 shots (4 DOF calibration) | 55F | 2779 fps |
| 162 gr Hornady ELD-X | ||
| 36 shots (OCW test) | 93F | 2984 fps |
| 17 shots (4 DOF calibration) | 69F | 2956 fps |
| 10 shots (cold soaked ammo test) | 29F | 2896 fps* |
On the last line for the 162 gr ELD-X, I put ten rounds of the ammunition in the freezer overnight and transported it to the range in a cooler packed with ice blocks. Immediately after removing the frozen magazines of ammo, one by one from the cooler, I took their temperatures with an IR gun and then shot them as quickly as possible. The ambient air temperature was 63F and the first seven rounds were at 30F. The next three
rounds were at 28F, so I used an average of 29F for all ten rounds. Whether this is a valid test, I can't really say. The rifle wasn't cold soaked so maybe it's not terribly useful. All this was done down in New Mexico. Maybe this winter up in North Dakota, I'll be able to put some real numbers to it. Of note, if I had used the data from the cold soak test for the 162 gr ELD-X, I would have been inputting a temperature sensitivity factor (TSF) of around 1.5 into Hornady 4 DOF, which seemed a bit unreasonable. The rifle shoots awesome with the 4 DOF solutions, capable of 6" groups at 800 yards. Just don't have the confidence yet to play with the TSF.
@wyliecoyote how did the slow velocity cold soak ammo shoot compared to the normal velocity ambient rounds?
