7 saum

[GMZ]

Here are some measurements with various bullets for the Proof pre fit. Thanks @Front Range Precision for a great deal on the barrel. Measurements are COAL/CBTO. Initial testing of this barrel will focus on 180 VLD and 168 ABLR.

184 Hybrid 3.070/2.200
180 VLD 2.965/2.150
175 ABLR 2.945/2.165
168 ABLR 2.980/2.185
168 VLD 2.975/2.160
162 ELD M 2.940/2.135
162 ELD X 2.930/2.145
145 LZR 2.980*

*Loading the seal tite band at the case mouth measures 2.950 which is the ideal placement and jump (.020-.030) according to CEB.

 

[GMZ]

Part II

Finally, fucking finally, found a great mid range shooting spot with 480y-655y plus a long shot to 1 mile. Has everything: angled terrain, variable winds, a ball busting 2mi hike in, and some damn nice views. Good training for hunting season with a 50 lb ruck and with the hike in I dont foresee much use.

Tested my 180 VLD and 168 ABLR loads at 510 on some steel. Nothing challenging but still fun to get outside and get some real world data after being stuck on the square range. Ballistics gave me 2.5U. First few shots at a rock to spot my impacts went .5 mil high before I realized I was at probably a 30* target angle. Held 2U and .5L and was right on.

Doing some math later I came up with a 27* target angle which lined up almost perfectly with the the 2U. These 2 loads are within .1 mil of eachother at the speeds I’m running them which is convenient.

Also had time to shoot a few of the CEB 145 Lazer bullets at 100 to check speeds. Loaded a short series of 54-56 of H4350. 55.8 got me 2945 with SD of 3.0, I need to get these to over 3100 so I pulled the rest and loaded 56-58. Bug hole groups no matter the charge though and damn consistent bullets each round oal was spot on. They’re listed as single feed but my M70 and Accurate WSM mags feed just fine at 2.950.

 

[JB.IC]

Anyone have the outside neck OD with ADG brass (non-neck turned) and a 180 hybrid seated. Trying to get an idea of what set of bushings to buy

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Anyone have the outside neck OD with ADG brass (non-neck turned) and a 180 hybrid seated. Trying to get an idea of what set of bushings to buy

Some numbers for you.
my brass is .3155-.3160 loaded so a .314 bushing for ADG brass.

My fired is .3175 so about .002 growth and well within the .004 or less range that bushing dies like.
My chamber s a .319 neck which is common

Typically it takes some experimentation to really sort out bushings and mandrels.
A .314 bushing and a .282 or .2825 mandrel and mandrel die should be a safe bet.

21st century is a good source for mandrels and its holder/die.

 

[JB.IC]

Awesome TY!!

 

[Rockdoc173]

I haven't seen a lot of guys running Vihtavuori powders on this thread, is there a reason? Here's why I ask...
Given the nature of brass availability, specifically 7SAUM, I decided to build a 6.5PRC-based 7mm that will very closely mimic 7SAUM. I was able to secure 300 pieces of Lapua 6.5 PRC brass (Glory be!). I'm doing it in a SA thus my OAL will be limited to ~2.95 so I'm planning to start with 166 ATips (pretty short throat) and move to 180 Hybrids if the 166s don't work out. I have a 28" Krieger attached to a ARC Archimedes, hopefully the added barrel length will help me out. I picked up a pound of N-165 a couple months back and was planning to lead with that until I can find something better. But, what IS better? Light-ish bullets, short throat and action, long barrel, and a 2k target around which the whole gun has been built. I'm waiting for it to come back from Cerakote, so in the mean time I thought I'd get opinions from the more experienced here on where to start with a load and where to go with powder.

 

[wyliecoyote]

I haven't seen a lot of guys running Vihtavuori powders on this thread, is there a reason? Here's why I ask...
Given the nature of brass availability, specifically 7SAUM, I decided to build a 6.5PRC-based 7mm that will very closely mimic 7SAUM. I was able to secure 300 pieces of Lapua 6.5 PRC brass (Glory be!). I'm doing it in a SA thus my OAL will be limited to ~2.95 so I'm planning to start with 166 ATips (pretty short throat) and move to 180 Hybrids if the 166s don't work out. I have a 28" Krieger attached to a ARC Archimedes, hopefully the added barrel length will help me out. I picked up a pound of N-165 a couple months back and was planning to lead with that until I can find something better. But, what IS better? Light-ish bullets, short throat and action, long barrel, and a 2k target around which the whole gun has been built. I'm waiting for it to come back from Cerakote, so in the mean time I thought I'd get opinions from the more experienced here on where to start with a load and where to go with powder.

I've been shooting 7 SAUM with VihtaVouri N560 for about a year now and getting good results from both a short and long action with 180gr Berger Hunting VLDs (ADG brass, 58.4-58.6 grs N560, BR-2 primers). I have the same sort of problem coming up where I have what I believe is a SAMMI spec chambered 7 SAUM (X-Caliber 28" carbon fiber barrel) on a short action that I want to shoot the lighter 160ish grain bullets out of. The 180 gr Berger VLDs using N560 are on a 24" barrel and that's where I think the faster (N560) powder works better. N165 is a little slower than N560, but almost the same. For the 28" barrel, I plan on using RL-26 or H1000 (if I can find more than the pound I have) to boost speed. I've definitely seen much better powder availability with VihtaVouri in the last year or two. Zero RL-26 or H1000.

For a data point, I was seeing an average velocity of 2780 fps with 58.6 grs of N560 on the 180 gr Berger VLD/ADG/BR-2 load. That was from a 24" barrel at 88 degrees F, density altitude up at 9650. Groups were excellent at around 3/8". Hot summer time New Mexico.

 

[Rockdoc173]

Interesting little tidbit, after finishing a dummy round loaded with the 166 ATip, then on a whim making one with the 180 Hybrid, I realized they will sit very closely in the case. I goofed and seated the Hybrid 0.019 too deep, but if seated to the same target of 2.940 the Hybrid and the ATip will be very close even though the Hybrid is 0.024 longer. So, if the stars align and I can actually find some, I'll be focusing more on the Hybrids (the bullet around which I designed the gun) than the ATips. Additionally, I've been reading on the Vihtavuori website and they say the 165 is the same as 160, just for heavier bullets... whatever that means. A tidge slower maybe?

 

[30cal user]

i have been using N165 in 7/300wsm and it is represented correctly in the powder burn chart, it is not as temp stable as h4831sc, its not horrible, just not as stable as the h extreme powders

 

[LRDD]

Got enough roundson the barrel to start doing load dev.

24 inch proof with .190 freebore on a Tikka running as long action

162 ELDs looked good with 63.8 of RL26@3025 fps.

Group pictured is 62.5 of RL26 on 180 hybrids @ 2925fps.

I might ease on up to see if I find another node, but it's hard to argue that.

 

[GMZ]

Got some rounds down my Proof TL3 pre fit, 8.4 twist 24” with Nomad-LT.

Trying a different method of using cheaper more available components for the first 100 rounds in order to save my better components until after speed up. Loaded 100 rounds with Ramshot Magnum and 162 ELDs so by the time I shoot all 100 barrel should be mostly sped up and I’ll have 100 fireformed brass. Just can’t see going through a hundred Bergers and a lb of hard to find powder before I get serious about load dev.

Virgin Norma brass
63 gr Ramshot Magnum
162 ELD-M
210M
.020 off
2750 avg

Speed was right on using Ramshot’s data for the min charge of Magnum. SD started off in high teens for rounds 1-5 but by round 25 was 12.6 and trending down. Had a 1/3 ipsc at 510 and a 2/3 at 665, easy mode.

Sun came over the trees about 0830 and temps shot up to upper 80’s so I set up my tent to give some shade. Bugs were relentless. Probably should have woken up an hour earlier to get more time with optimal conditions.

Edit: Measured with Hdy .420 comparator the fired cases to the datum measure 1.628 which is + .003 from virgin.

 

[LRDD]

Took the SAUM out this weekend to shoot at distance and finalize the load. I went.to 2970 before I seen any signs of pressure. I didn't find another node as good up there. 62.0-62.8 of RL26 had 15 shots into .75@ 100. Took the 62.5 load with 180 hybrids @2925 to 1000 yards and had 8 shots with a vertical of 1.25 inch. I think ill leave it alone

 

[Clem]

Anyone have the outside neck OD with ADG brass (non-neck turned) and a 180 hybrid seated. Trying to get an idea of what set of bushings to buy

I was curious about the same. ADG website says avg neck wall thickness of .016. Double that is .032 + .284 = .316

 

[Scopes]

Does anyone know if ADG did a run of 7 SAUM? I haven't seen any for sale. Or did you guys already by it all?

 

[Mark @ Exo]

They released some in June. It obviously went quick.

 

[3rdfocal]

After my 180 ELD's started blowing up (FL summer), I decided to test 190 A-tips in my short action SAUM over the past couple weeks. They are loaded mag length at about 2.98" OAL which is a .040" jump in my chamber. Barrel is a 24" proof carbon 8.24 twist. To see if I could load enough powder to get the 190's moving fast enough to be worth using, I started with a quick pressure test by loading 8 rounds in increasing charge weights from 54 up to 59 grains. The last 5 rounds of that test were between 57-59 grains in .5 grain increments and created a group measuring .37". Never had that happen before. 59 grains was right around 2850 fps and really didn't show any pressure signs. Further testing showed 58.4 was a winner.

ADG brass
Federal 210M
58.4 grains of 7828ssc (not even close to compressed)
2810 fps from a 24" barrel

They hammered today at longer ranges. Sub 3" group at 680 and lots of impacts on top of each other. I was holding .2-.4 mil of wind with 109 hybrids in a 6BRA while the 190's needed NO wind hold, the BC is no joke! Short action SAUMs can definitely run the heavy/long bullets. 7828ssc is a good choice in my experience.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

After my 180 ELD's started blowing up (FL summer), I decided to test 190 A-tips in my short action SAUM over the past couple weeks. They are loaded mag length at about 2.98" OAL which is a .040" jump in my chamber. Barrel is a 24" proof carbon 8.24 twist. To see if I could load enough powder to get the 190's moving fast enough to be worth using, I started with a quick pressure test by loading 8 rounds in increasing charge weights from 54 up to 59 grains. The last 5 rounds of that test were between 57-59 grains in .5 grain increments and created a group measuring .37". Never had that happen before. 59 grains was right around 2850 fps and really didn't show any pressure signs. Further testing showed 58.4 was a winner.

ADG brass
Federal 210M
58.4 grains of 7828ssc (not even close to compressed)
2810 fps from a 24" barrel

They hammered today at longer ranges. Sub 3" group at 680 and lots of impacts on top of each other. I was holding .2-.4 mil of wind with 109 hybrids in a 6BRA while the 190's needed NO wind hold, the BC is no joke! Short action SAUMs can definitely run the heavy/long bullets. 7828ssc is a good choice in my experience.

Thanks man I was curious about this as well. I wonder what kind of speed I could get out of it with rl26.
rl26 is sending 166atip at 2960 fps in a 17 inch barrel for me.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Has anyone tried RL16 with the 180 gr class bullets? If so what was your load, speed and barrel length?

 

[Widowmaker300]

Scooting a 175 at 3k
Ag stock.
Proof 24
Vector short action.
Shoots lights out.

 

[LEROYRECCE]

Any feedback on why I may not be getting very good velocity compared to others?

Tikka Action
24" Bartlein Carbon Wrapped - 8.5 Twist
COAL - 3.00 or less

N565 is getting me about 2800 FPS with the Berger 175's

Reloder 26 is getting me about 2900 FPS with the Berger 175s

ADG brass
210M primers

 

[AKGuide]

Any feedback on why I may not be getting very good velocity compared to others?

Tikka Action
24" Bartlein Carbon Wrapped - 8.5 Twist
COAL - 3.00 or less

N565 is getting me about 2800 FPS with the Berger 175's

Reloder 26 is getting me about 2900 FPS with the Berger 175s

ADG brass
210M primers

Could be a slow barrel but generally if it is new it won’t speed up til around a 100 rounds down the barrel.

 

[LEROYRECCE]

Could be a slow barrel but generally if it is new it won’t speed up til around a 100 rounds down the barrel.

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure. I have about 200 rounds through it now.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

I built a 17 inch 7 saum rig in a short action shooting the 180 eldm. Even with that short of a barrel I am shocked to see using rl26 I am still getting 2800 fps without pressure signs. COAL is 2.950 pretty staying pretty temp stable and has shot .28 moa 5 shot groups. For me that's all the velocity and energy I will need for any animal and any distance really. So for the guys that are thinking about going with a short barrel, I highly recommend it.

 

[Mark @ Exo]

I built a 17 inch 7 saum rig in a short action shooting the 180 eldm. Even with that short of a barrel I am shocked to see using rl26 I am still getting 2800 fps without pressure signs. COAL is 2.950 pretty staying pretty temp stable and has shot .28 moa 5 shot groups. For me that's all the velocity and energy I will need for any animal and any distance really. So for the guys that are thinking about going with a short barrel, I highly recommend it.

Awesome! I have a 22" and am building an 18" now. Have you tried any other powders (and/or bullets) in your 17" barrel?

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Awesome! I have a 22" and am building an 18" now. Have you tried any other powders (and/or bullets) in your 17" barrel?

Mark!!! To funny man, I took my rifle out to the range last week and some guy said “that looks just like the 7 saum Mark from Exo built, he just did a podcast on it” so of course on my drive home I looked up the podcast and gave it a listen. Great podcast man, I’m going to start from the begging and listen to all of them eventually.
To answer your question, yes and no. I have only had the barrel for a month and with my out of state hunts this month I had to do a ton of load dev and break in the barrel in a short amount of time and come up with a good load. I have only used that powder and h1000 but plan to test rl16 as well. But the h1000 I only used for barrel break in. Before speed up. And I’ve tested the 166 atips, 180 eldm and 168 lrx (California non lead load)
H1000 65.0 2.947 coal. With the 166 atip is the highest grain I went and did not run into preassure. And only got 2749 fps. Did spend much time using the powder.
Rl26 64.0 gave me 2910 fps with the 166 atip. All of the above was before barrel break in
Rl26 63.5 with the 168 lrx 2.950 coal. .020 off the lands gave me 3013 fps and I think that is when the barrel was done speeding up.
But I am loving the 180 eldms. That’s what I am using out of state. I just got back from Idaho and will be in Co next week for deer and elk. After that I’ll do some more load dev. My other hobby is ELR so I will want to get this load really dialed in to see how far I can take it. (Just for fun)
This is my rig. Pork sword chasis, vx5hd scope. Carbon six barrel. Salmon river solutions titanium brake and bolt knob.
Weighs 7.9 lbs with scope, and all accessories, weight does not include the mag and ammo.

 

[SPK512]

Mark!!! To funny man, I took my rifle out to the range last week and some guy said “that looks just like the 7 saum Mark from Exo built, he just did a podcast on it” so of course on my drive home I looked up the podcast and gave it a listen. Great podcast man, I’m going to start from the begging and listen to all of them eventually.
To answer your question, yes and no. I have only had the barrel for a month and with my out of state hunts this month I had to do a ton of load dev and break in the barrel in a short amount of time and come up with a good load. I have only used that powder and h1000 but plan to test rl16 as well. But the h1000 I only used for barrel break in. Before speed up. And I’ve tested the 166 atips, 180 eldm and 168 lrx (California non lead load)
H1000 65.0 2.947 coal. With the 166 atip is the highest grain I went and did not run into preassure. And only got 2749 fps. Did spend much time using the powder.
Rl26 64.0 gave me 2910 fps with the 166 atip. All of the above was before barrel break in
Rl26 63.5 with the 168 lrx 2.950 coal. .020 off the lands gave me 3013 fps and I think that is when the barrel was done speeding up.
But I am loving the 180 eldms. That’s what I am using out of state. I just got back from Idaho and will be in Co next week for deer and elk. After that I’ll do some more load dev. My other hobby is ELR so I will want to get this load really dialed in to see how far I can take it. (Just for fun)
This is my rig. Pork sword chasis, vx5hd scope. Carbon six barrel. Salmon river solutions titanium brake and bolt knob.
Weighs 7.9 lbs with scope, and all accessories, weight does not include the mag and ammo.

This is awesome. I went down basically the same road. Is yours a SAAMi chamber? .090FB?
Mine is
18" Proof 1:8 SAAMi Chamber, Tenacity Action, Element MG Chassis.

What I have tried so far is:
162 ELDM COAL 2.913
H4350 - Up to 56 grains with no pressure. Found great 100 yard and 200 yard accuracy at 55.1 grain and 2720 FPS. Shooting 1/2 MOA at both distances.

175 Elite Hunter COAL 2.94
H4350 - BUST. Hit Pressure when I got to 55 Grains and was at 2610 FPS.
H4831SC - I Fired one test shot at 58 grain/2592FPS to make sure things were ok. Going to run a ladder tomorrow or Friday.


I have been reluctant to try/waste slower powders due to the shorter barrel. But your posted loads have me wanting to go for it. I have some N170, H1000 and n560 to play with.


Here is a pic.

 

[Mark @ Exo]

@BoltActionBrotherhood Ha ha! Small world. Appreciate the info. Looking forward to hearing how your further development goes...and also for you, @SPK512. The more data, the better!

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

This is awesome. I went down basically the same road. Is yours a SAAMi chamber? .090FB?
Mine is
18" Proof 1:8 SAAMi Chamber, Tenacity Action, Element MG Chassis.

What I have tried so far is:
162 ELDM COAL 2.913
H4350 - Up to 56 grains with no pressure. Found great 100 yard and 200 yard accuracy at 55.1 grain and 2720 FPS. Shooting 1/2 MOA at both distances.

175 Elite Hunter COAL 2.94
H4350 - BUST. Hit Pressure when I got to 55 Grains and was at 2610 FPS.
H4831SC - I Fired one test shot at 58 grain/2592FPS to make sure things were ok. Going to run a ladder tomorrow or Friday.


I have been reluctant to try/waste slower powders due to the shorter barrel. But your posted loads have me wanting to go for it. I have some N170, H1000 and n560 to play with.

No mine is a custom throat, which should have been for the 180, but it got messed up a bit and is a bit longer for the 180 to get to the lands with a 2.950. I would be jumping like 50 though or something. But that's fine, I don't chase the lands anyway. It seems to me the 7 saum with a short barrel really likes slower-burning powders. however I think we will run out of case capacity with h1000 before hitting preasure.

 

[SPK512]

I see. I wonder if thats keeping your pressure down as well.

Thanks for the info. Going to try out the 4831 a hit more, then go to N560 and N170.

Will post back results as I get them.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

I see. I wonder if thats keeping your pressure down as well.

Thanks for the info. Going to try out the 4831 a hit more, then go to N560 and N170.

Will post back results as I get them.

O yeah, more initial start pressure will always increase when you are rubbing close to the lands. It’s pretty significant

 

[SPK512]

Yup. Based on SAAMi chamber and plugging your loads into GRT, I can’t get anywhere near yours before being over pressure.
Gonna have to work up slow and see where I get.

 

[The Pizza Guy]

I can confirm running out of case capacity before running into pressure. I took mine to 65 gr with 180 vld at 2.950 with way to much crunch sound lol. 22inch barrel and it went 3050 with very small swipe on case. My load is 64 gr h1000, 2.950 coal, free bore .090, Speed 2897

No mine is a custom throat, which should have been for the 180, but it got messed up a bit and is a bit longer for the 180 to get to the lands with a 2.950. I would be jumping like 50 though or something. But that's fine, I don't chase the lands anyway. It seems to me the 7 saum with a short barrel really likes slower-burning powders. however I think we will run out of case capacity with h1000 before hitting preasure.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

I can confirm running out of case capacity before running into pressure. I took mine to 65 gr with 180 vld at 2.950 with way to much crunch sound lol. 22inch barrel and it went 3050 with very small swipe on case. My load is 64 gr h1000, 2.950 coal, free bore .090, Speed 2897

that seems like some decent speed though for the 180 out of a 22 inch. I might have to give that a whirl!

 

[SPK512]

I can confirm running out of case capacity before running into pressure. I took mine to 65 gr with 180 vld at 2.950 with way to much crunch sound lol. 22inch barrel and it went 3050 with very small swipe on case. My load is 64 gr h1000, 2.950 coal, free bore .090, Speed 2897

Yeah, that sounds worth a try for me being that we are both running same chamber(basically).
I fear the h1000 barely has enough time in your 22” and won’t in my 18”.

Thanks for the info. Gives me more to play with.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Yeah, that sounds worth a try for me being that we are both running same chamber(basically).
I fear the h1000 barely has enough time in your 22” and won’t in my 18”.

Thanks for the info. Gives me more to play with.

H1000 and rl26 are pretty close in burn rate

 

[SPK512]

H1000 and rl26 are pretty close in burn rate

I know, which is why yours intrigues me.
Planning to works backwards towards slower powders as I test.

I just loaded up some 162 ELM with h4831 to try shortly. Will report back.

 

[SPK512]

Well, thats not what I was hoping for out of the H4831…
Only posting averages from 5 rounds of the first 3, only ran two of the D load.

NEXT!

 

[Scopes]

N560 should give more velocity. I got about 50 fps extra with N560 vs H1000.

 

[SPK512]

So far N560 is giving more.
Here is the fastest and bestest from today.
I haven’t run into pressure yet. So I am going to work just above 62 and see if I can find a node.

 

[AlpineSniper]

So I have a load for H4831SC (60.3gr) and another load for H1000 (63.4gr). Both have an SD of 5. Any reason to go with one powder over the other? Shooting ADG brass.

 

[AlpineSniper]

Also curious so I thought I'd throw it out in here. How many firings can you typically get on ADG 7 SAUM brass? and also what kind of barrel life are people typically getting out of a 7 SAUM?

 

[Mark @ Exo]

So I have a load for H4831SC (60.3gr) and another load for H1000 (63.4gr). Both have an SD of 5. Any reason to go with one powder over the other? Shooting ADG brass.

Both are great powders. Personally, I'd consider H4831SC if future availability is a factor. It has certainly been easier to find than H1000.

 

[SPK512]

So I have a load for H4831SC (60.3gr) and another load for H1000 (63.4gr). Both have an SD of 5. Any reason to go with one powder over the other? Shooting ADG brass.

What are the specs of your rifle?

 

[AlpineSniper]

What are the specs of your rifle?

Zermatt Origin Short Action. Proof Carbon Prefit 24". 1:8.4 twist.

 

[SPK512]

Are you running in a short action?

And what projectile?

Sorry to pry, just trying to log as much data as I can.

 

[AlpineSniper]

Are you running in a short action?

And what projectile?

Sorry to pry, just trying to log as much data as I can.

Yes. Short Action. 168 VLD hunting

 

[BoltRunner]

What happened to the chart on page 1 or 2 of this thread that was on there forever...? Had load data with Berger 195 or 190's cant remember and a handful of different powders in min & max load with speeds...?

 

[bodhisafa]

Anyone know of the next run of brass?

 

[wyliecoyote]

I just saw that ADG was expecting to do a run of 7 SAUM in Jan 2023 . . . hopefully any day now . . .

 

[ClamHammerXpress]

Read the rules. Do this again and you will be banned.