700 scratching cases badly

[Chickeneye]

Ive done some research and have noticed many people seem to be having this problem. My brand new sps-v leaves gouges running the lenght of the case, from shoulder to rim, seemingly caused by the magazine lip. If i didnt reload i wouldnt worry about it, but i do. They are significant scratches.

Im assuming many of you have had the same problem, what did you do to fix/minimize it? (short of getting DBM bottom metal of some sort, which i dont have funds for at the moment). Send it back to remington? Sand/polish the mag lips? Im also getting a mark around the entire circumference of the case, about a quarter inch up from the rim. what could be causing that?

This is extremely disappointing. I have never had this issue with any other rifle ive ever owned. I posted this on arfcom as well, id like to see how many people are actually having this issue

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

pictures

 

[Broc]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

I have the same problem with my SPS-T. The best I can tell, mine are caused by the spurs that are on the lower part of the action, just above the magazine well. Is this what you are referring to by saying magazine lips? I'm not up on all my gun part lingo, lol. I've read you can polish the areas that are rubbing, but I'm not sure how it would affect loading. After 275 rounds it seems to be getting a little bit better. Still bugs me though. I'm in the same boat as you. I hate to scratch up the cases I want to reload.

 

[Chickeneye]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

my camera sucks. i couldnt get the scratches that run the length of the case, but i did get the ones that run the circumference of the case near the rim

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

Cant really tell from the pic. Is that a ring around the circumfrence of the case? That is usually a sigh of a fatigued case and next step is seperation. How many loads on the brass? Full or neck size?

 

[ARCOREY]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

Mine does the same thing (scratched down length). It got better after I had it duracoated. The guy did my bolt rails and feed ramp. I shoot Lapua brass and decided to run mine as a single shot after what it did to my Winchester brass out of the blind magazine. I think it is a burr on the feed ramp where they come up at an angle out of the magazine as single feeding doesn't do this. A DM kit would likely help or some good feed ramp polishing. Mine is a varmint rifle so I run single shot, it doesn't bother me much.

added: The circumference rings look like case head seperation beginning or FL size die marks stopping short of base of the case.

 

[Chickeneye]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

i know thats what it looks like, but its from the gun. the brass i showed has never been reloaded, and just cycled through my 700 for the purposes of this picture. i know you cant tell from the pic, but the marks around the case are like hundreds of little vertical scratches

edit: here a thread i found on THR, about the vertical scratches at least http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=453197

 

[hilbillee]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

I had the same problem with a 700 BDL in 223. The edges on the inner box mag would scratch the cases, and the feed ramp would scratch them also. I got to looking closer and it looked like someone had taken a wood chisel or something and gouged out places in the receiver walls where the bolt rides. Very poor QA to let something like that get out of the factory. I sent it back to Remington to get it fixed. When I got it back the letter said the serial number of my rifle had changed. They had sent back a whole new rifle.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cant really tell from the pic. Is that a ring around the circumfrence of the case? That is usually a sigh of a fatigued case and next step is seperation. How many loads on the brass? Full or neck size?</div></div>


....exactly....WARNING !!!!!

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

send the fucker back

 

[longshooter]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

The remington magazines interfere with the cases when feeding from the magazine. I had to alter my mag with a dremel, slowly, checking fitment as I went. Until it fed without interference.

The ring is case head separation, caused by a too long chamber, too much resizing (bumping shoulder back too far), or both. Very dangerous. Don't reload those cases. Correct the problem before continuing to reload for this gun.

Perhaps the gun needs to go back. Remington doesn't seem to have too much on the ball, concerning QC.

At a minimum, you need to set up your dies for less shoulder bump. Have the chamber checked at your gunshop, for headspace.

 

[Elxx]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

My 700 sps-v is scratching too. I'll get some pictures either late tonight or tomorrow. Mine go all the way down the case. The picture above seems to be half as severe as what I'm getting.

It's an unfired rifle too =/

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

this is whats next

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the brass i showed has never been reloaded, and just cycled through my 700 for the purposes of this picture. i know you cant tell from the pic, but the marks around the case are like hundreds of little vertical scratches

</div></div>

Keep saying it and maybe someone will hear that its not reloaded brass.........

What does the chamfer at the start of the chamber look like?

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the brass i showed has never been reloaded, and just cycled through my 700 for the purposes of this picture. i know you cant tell from the pic, but the marks around the case are like hundreds of little vertical scratches

</div></div>

Keep saying it and maybe someone will hear that its not reloaded brass.........

What does the chamfer at the start of the chamber look like?</div></div>




oh for fuck sakes.....the brass held together for one firing ...RIGHT ?????....did anyone think to mic the case....



if so ...its a fuck-up chamber.....send it back!!!!

 

[Chickeneye]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the brass i showed has never been reloaded, and just cycled through my 700 for the purposes of this picture. i know you cant tell from the pic, but the marks around the case are like hundreds of little vertical scratches

</div></div>

Keep saying it and maybe someone will hear that its not reloaded brass.........

What does the chamfer at the start of the chamber look like? </div></div>

lol thanks. let me clarifly. the brass is once fired. through my savage, NOT the sps, which has had no issues for the five or so years ive owned it. those scratches at the bottom are purely from cycling the brass through the 700. not shooting it, not reloading it.

but yea a call to remington will be in order

 

[bsp212]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

I'm surprised the brass fired from your Savage would chamber in the Remmy in the first place. Does the rifle do this with new unfired brass or ammo?

 

[Hummer]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

Since the revelation that the brass was fired in another rifle first opens up a new can of worms.
At first I totally agreed it looked it brass separation was the culprit and still will be.

1. Measure the radial mark area after firing in Savage and tell us what it measures. I suspect it will be .472 or larger.
2. FL size the case in your die and re-measure the same place and give us that dimension.
3. Fire a case in the Rem and measure in same place. I suspect this will be .471 range.

A properly fabbed 308 FL die should take base dimension down to .468/.469 range to allow it to go in chambers. Factory chambers should be .471 to about .472 but I have seen .475 on fired cases. MG fired cases can be even larger.

Right now I suspect the Savage chamber is big, the die is not reducing base enough to fit in the small Rem chamber.

Someone said try it with a new unfired case which is excellent idea. If it does the same thing box it up and send them the good news. You will not get same rifle back. They don't take the time to rebarrel anything, just send out another. I got a new Rem a couple years back and sent it back three times to get it right.

Bottom line is one of those chambers is big and it will lead to brass separation as the others have said.

Personally I dedicate brass to one rifle and have 100 or 50 round ammo boxes with serial number of each rifle on lable so same brass stays with same rifle forever.

Most folks don't realize that the factory does not give a big happy about your brass life and the SAAMI specs are about like the specs for a medium potato. Just depends on what part of the country you are from that defines a medium potato.

If you are planning lots of shooting and having your rifles rebarreled several times it will be a good idea to buy your own reamer to your own specs and then you will have uniformity. A gunsmith won't mind if you supply your own reamer as he doesn't have to put wear on his. A good reamer used and cared for properly should hold up for about 200 barrels. Then just pass he reamer to the younguns.

How do you do this? Take 50 rounds of NEW ammo and mic the base .200 up from rim and find your largest case. Add .002 to that dimension. Now measure the necks and add .002 to that dimension. Warning: If you are going to be using 308 commercial brass and LC brass order .4685 base dim as new LC measures .468 and commercial (all I have seen in last 30 years) measures .465.
I have found .4685 works perfect with all brass unless you are trying to use brass fired in MG, then you are going to need a LE Wilson FL die and arbor press to force it back.

A custom reamer will run you about 180.00. With the cost of brass these days the reamer is paid for in 500 rounds and your brass is still good as you will find it lasts much longer.
How much longer? Well my .4685 308 chambers will allow me to load LAKE CITY MATCH brass over a hundred times.

I have 30.06 chambers that run .467 ( 30.06 Commerical and LC both come in at .465") and I have one LC 63 Match case I have loaded 157 times and there are no signs is separation. I have run 30.06 LC Match brass in same rifle for over ten years. If you size it correctly, clean it and stress relieve the neck it lasts for years in a TIGHT CHAMBER.

95% of my highpower ammo is loaded in LC brass.

Also order a L E Wilson case gage. If your die won't size your cases to go in this gage you have die problem.

 

[Irelander]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

I too have noticed scratches length-wise on my .308 cases after running through my Remington LTR. I also reload so this kind of pisses me off. It hasn't seemed to have any affect so far as much of my brass has seen 3 to 4 reloads. If anyone has a how-to on polishing the edges of the mag opening in the receiver, I'm all ears.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the brass i showed has never been reloaded, and just cycled through my 700 for the purposes of this picture. i know you cant tell from the pic, but the marks around the case are like hundreds of little vertical scratches

</div></div>

Keep saying it and maybe someone will hear that its not reloaded brass.........

What does the chamfer at the start of the chamber look like? </div></div>

lol thanks. let me clarifly. the brass is once fired. through my savage, NOT the sps, which has had no issues for the five or so years ive owned it. those scratches at the bottom are purely from cycling the brass through the 700. not shooting it, not reloading it.

but yea a call to remington will be in order </div></div>

OK, so you take a case fired from one rifle, don't size it, stick it in a DIFFERENT rifle, and expect it to fit the same or looser? Do I have this right?

The ring going around the base of the case in the pic you posted is not a "Scratch" caused by any feed lips. It is burnishing caused by swaging a case fired in one chamber into a different chamber without sizing. A sizing die will do the exact same thing to the case.

Sounds like your Savage chamber is bigger than your Remmy chamber back at the base.

You start this whole thread with inaccurate information, it takes several people to pull the truth out of you as to what you are actually doing, you are doing something that makes NO SENSE to do, and you want to blame Remington.

Do I have the story straight finally?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You start this whole thread with inaccurate information, it takes several people to pull the truth out of you as to what you are actually doing, you are doing something that makes NO SENSE to do, and you want to blame Remington.

Do I have the story straight finally? </div></div>

That's my current take on it as well.

Its getting to be like an Arfcom refugee camp around here lately........

 

[Chickeneye]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the brass i showed has never been reloaded, and just cycled through my 700 for the purposes of this picture. i know you cant tell from the pic, but the marks around the case are like hundreds of little vertical scratches

</div></div>

Keep saying it and maybe someone will hear that its not reloaded brass.........

What does the chamfer at the start of the chamber look like? </div></div>

lol thanks. let me clarifly. the brass is once fired. through my savage, NOT the sps, which has had no issues for the five or so years ive owned it. those scratches at the bottom are purely from cycling the brass through the 700. not shooting it, not reloading it.

but yea a call to remington will be in order </div></div>

OK, so you take a case fired from one rifle, don't size it, stick it in a DIFFERENT rifle, and expect it to fit the same or looser? Do I have this right?

The ring going around the base of the case in the pic you posted is not a "Scratch" caused by any feed lips. It is burnishing caused by swaging a case fired in one chamber into a different chamber without sizing. A sizing die will do the exact same thing to the case.

Sounds like your Savage chamber is bigger than your Remmy chamber back at the base.

You start this whole thread with inaccurate information, it takes several people to pull the truth out of you as to what you are actually doing, you are doing something that makes NO SENSE to do, and you want to blame Remington.

Do I have the story straight finally? </div></div>
hey. einstein. i know the ring around the bottom isnt from the mag lips. thats what the huge gouges running the length of my case are. yes i am blaming remington as it seems like everybodys 700 scratches the piss out of the length of the case.

pull the truth out of me? i never lied about anything, so i dont know what you are talking about.

and by the way. i have about 10 posts on arfcom, because normally i hate it there because of the assholes and morons. that is why i come here, for some sensible information.

i understand the ring around the bottom of the case is from my own stupidity, and not thinking. alright, that was my bad. problem solved there. we can forget about that issue now.

the fact of the matter is, the original issue STILL remains that mine, and seemingly dozens of others magazines are scratching the living hell out of cases, from the bottom of the shoulder, all the way to the rim.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

sensible information can't be gleaned from putting brass fired in a Savage into a Remington.

If the longitudinal scratches bother you on the cases, it doesn't take much to deburr/smooth the edges of the feed lips on your Remington's magazine box.

 

[bsp212]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

Though I never actually mic'd it, I have sized brass from the same ammo lot of FGMM fired from a factory Remington chamber and a friend's factory Savage chamber and my custom rifle's chamber. My full length die took very little pressure to size the brass fired in the custom, the factory Rem. took considerably more, and the brass from the Savage actually caused me to lift my 8' long very solidly built reloading bench up off of the floor on the upstroak.

FWIW, my AI mags scratch the sh*t out of my brass. It comes out just fine in the tumbler with walnut media and some Dillon polish.

 

[Armed Ferret]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">everybodys 700 scratches the piss out of the length of the case.</div></div>

While I admittedly have yet to encounter a piece of brass that has a bladder, my 700 never scratched anything.

The throat was deeper than Little Oral Annie's, but that's a common problem with factory remington tubes. Controlled Chaos Arms fixed that for me with a Brux replacement.

 

[Tylermtech]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

Find the sharp spot on the magazine with your finger and then file or dremmel it off. that should stop the scratches.

 

[Kilosierra]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chickeneye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes i am blaming remington as it seems like everybodys 700 scratches the piss out of the length of the case.

...

the fact of the matter is, the original issue STILL remains that mine, and seemingly dozens of others magazines are scratching the living hell out of cases, from the bottom of the shoulder, all the way to the rim. </div></div>

If the scratch you're talking about is a very big scratch that you can catch your fingernail on,my 700 did the same thing when I got it back from the gunsmith. I have no idea if it did before hand since I bought it used specifically to have the action for a build. I ended up having to polish the left feed lip and the feed ramp. The lip had several small gouges in it like something hit in at an angle, and the the ramp looked like they forgot to change the bit in the milling machine several actions ago. Three hours, some 200 grit sandpaper, and a dremel tool with a polishing wheel later, it feeds fine without scratching the cases.

And yes, the action should never have left the factory like that. Unfortunately that's the price of using a mass produced action.

 

[harrisjl]

Re: 700 scratching cases badly

My latest 700 did the same thing, for the same reason. They may be getting lax at the factory,