8 5shot groups at 100yrds Scar17 with hand loads

Wizard1183

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Jul 14, 2018
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granted the gun isn’t exactly locked down to where POA stays exactly the same. A hair of movement will result in 1/4”+/- either way? But I think it’s pretty damn good.

Note: POA isn’t POI here. POA is center of bullseye. POI is approximately 1.5” up
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Here you go….

.762” moa 4 shot group.

Ppl act like because they shot under 1moa group one tiem they can consistently do it with an AR. I’ll call BS
 
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Nice job man.

My best ever was 40 shots of HSM 190gr SMKs into a quarter sized group at 50 yards with an old Blaser in .308 Win with a Schmidt and Bender 1-4. Slow fire. Took about about 2 minutes. 1 flyer.
 
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Is this a 16" barrel? Irons or optic? Trigger? I dont think I've ever shot match grade ammo out of my SCAR 17. I spent a fortune setting up the 16" barrel to match the 13" (KDG MREX and Mototech regulator) but Ive never had a reason to put the 16" barrel back on. The Geissele trigger makes a huge difference. The SCAR shoots mil spec stuff extremely well. Im loading up some 147 grain stuff on my Dillon to see how well it will shoot mil spec projectiles with a consistent powder charge. I did splurge on some 125 grain SST to try to approximate the 130 grain MK319. Ill try to remember to take some pics of groups.
 
Is this a 16" barrel? Irons or optic? Trigger? I dont think I've ever shot match grade ammo out of my SCAR 17. I spent a fortune setting up the 16" barrel to match the 13" (KDG MREX and Mototech regulator) but Ive never had a reason to put the 16" barrel back on. The Geissele trigger makes a huge difference. The SCAR shoots mil spec stuff extremely well. Im loading up some 147 grain stuff on my Dillon to see how well it will shoot mil spec projectiles with a consistent powder charge. I did splurge on some 125 grain SST to try to approximate the 130 grain MK319. Ill try to remember to take some pics of groups.

16”, geissle trigger, leupold mk5hd 3.6-18. Like I said, ANYONE can lay claim their rifle is sub moa. One time? Yea ok sure! Do it 8x

Look the scar is sub moa! .762” to be exact!
 

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Mean radius = how far the average shot was from the center.

So, the “average shot” in that group missed the center by almost 1 moa.

Great shooting?
If you’ve never done it? Don’t criticize. Don’t act like you can do better. But never have. I’m not saying I’m a sharpshooter. I’m not! But your keyboard warrior mentality lacks any depth here.

I posted a 4 shot group .762”. So that’s repeatable 100x? 1000x? You’re not capable of repeating your best group consistently. I don’t care who you are? Unless you were using some $3000 front rest and shit built for ELR guys
 
16”, geissle trigger, leupold mk5hd 3.6-18. Like I said, ANYONE can lay claim their rifle is sub moa. One time? Yea ok sure! Do it 8x

Look the scar is sub moa! .762” to be exact!
im not really sure what your original post was about. You weren’t asking a question, so I’m assuming you were thinking people would be impressed by a 4.5” group.

then you said this odd statement above. You didn’t shoot sub-moa 8x…..you shot 4.3 MOA “8x”, You fired a wasteful 40 shots into a single group covering 4.5 inches….proving nothing except your lack of experience.…. If that’s the case, and you’re new to shooting, keep up the good work. Any range time is good range time 👍

tip** you should be shooting 5-shot groups to track consistency. Not 4-shot, and definitely not 40-shot. It’s hard to get better like that.
 
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im not really sure what your original post was about. You weren’t asking a question, so I’m assuming you were thinking people would be impressed by a 4.5” group.

then you said this odd statement above. You didn’t “do it 8x”. You fired a wasteful 40 shots into a single group covering 4.5 inches….proving nothing except your lack of experience.…. If that’s the case, and you’re new to shooting, keep up the good work. Any range time is good range time 👍
Not trying to impress. Might be a 4.5” group , but 93-94% of the shots were actually in a 2.5” group which cut 2” off the group within those 3 shots. So it ain’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. Can it be better? Absolutely!

But if anyone will come here and say they can put 40rds in a 1” circle using said gun? I’d have an extremely hard time believing that…

And had I used 8 separate groups, would it not have been wasteful?
 
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Not trying to impress. Might be a 4.5” group , but 93-94% of the shots were actually in a 2.5” group which cut 2” off the group within those 3 shots. So it ain’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. Can it be better? Absolutely!

But if anyone will come here and say they can put 40rds in a 1” circle using said gun? I’d have an extremely hard time believing that…

That is not how groups are measured.
To shoot a giant group and pick out your best shots, claiming that to be your group, seems like something a mentally-ill person would do.
This why I’m saying you should shoot individual 5-shot groups. If nothing else, to track your own progress.

You might want to stop posting rebuttals in this thread…it’s not helping your image.
 
That is not how groups are measured.
To shoot a giant group and pick out your best shots, claiming that to be your group, seems like something a mentally-ill person would do.
This why I’m saying you should shoot individual 5-shot groups. If nothing else, to track your own progress.

You might want to stop posting rebuttals in this thread…it’s not helping your image.
I’m not picking and choosing shots. I stated a fact that 93-94% of shots were in a 2.5” circle. If you can’t see that? You’re blind. 37 shots out of 40 were in a 2.5” circle is it not? And actually, closer to 2” than 2.5”

Next time individual groups…
 
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Just seems like a giant waste of ammo to me.
So…..you just sit on ammo? What’s the point? To grow old and die owning ammo? 95% was bought pre Covid. $0.60-$0.70 a round for premium built ammo… FGMM will cost you over $2 a round. So you hold on to your ammo and ill practice with mine. Practice makes perfect. Not shooting makes you brag about what you can’t do
 
So…..you just sit on ammo? What’s the point? To grow old and die owning ammo? 95% was bought pre Covid. $0.60-$0.70 a round for premium built ammo… FGMM will cost you over $2 a round. So you hold on to your ammo and ill practice with mine. Practice makes perfect. Not shooting makes you brag about what you can’t do
Just never occurred to me to dump 40 rounds into one sheet of paper, on one bull, at 100 yds., in one session.

How bout 20 days of a cold bore shot with one follow-up at 500 yards? Maybe mix in different ranges? Mixed positions? You could have dry fired 40x in your living room and got more out it, and kept the ammo. Just my .02.
 
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Man if I had access to more than 100yrds? Don’t you think I’d be there? I got the chance once at 530-560yrds. 5 shots in a vertical 14-16” spread on the target.
 
It doesn't matter where 90% of the shots ended up, its all of them that made the 4.5 MOA group.
Who says? You? Cause according to mean radius? The 2worst shots in a group don’t mean shit. So what you’re saying is at 500 yrds? I can’t put put 37/40 hits in a 12” circle? Cause according to you I’d need a 22.5” circle at 500 yrds. And that is pure unadulterated BS. Lol
 
It doesn't matter where 90% of the shots ended up, its all of them that made the 4.5 MOA group.
He doesn’t understand that. Shooting 40 rounds at the same POA is not something a person with any experience would do. It does nothing useful. Shooting separate 5-shot groups, allows you to adjust and expand your skill after each group. You can see and work on your errors.

Shooting those 40 rounds, it looks like you made errors in your shooting about 25 times. Wouldn’t it be nice to know exactly when you pulled each of those poor shots? So, when we are saying you wasted 40 rounds, it’s because you did not gain anything after your shooting session.
If I had a 4.5” (or even a 2.5”) spread at 100yds with 168FGMM, I would be very concerned because something is wrong.
 
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He doesn’t understand that. Shooting 40 rounds at the same POA is not something a person with any experience would do. It does nothing useful. Shooting separate 5-shot groups, allows you to adjust and expand your skill after each group. You can see and work on your errors.

Shooting those 40 rounds, it looks like you made errors in your shooting about 25 times. Wouldn’t it be nice to know exactly when you pulled each of those poor shots? So, when we are saying you wasted 40 rounds, it’s because you did not gain anything after your shooting session.
10:4 conquistador

Won’t have time to do anything for awhile. It’s an hr one way to closest range. In the future I’ll post back
 
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If you are shooting through two buildings to hit a large group of drunk and sleeping Russians at 250 meters....

Then you will care.
Does one take spin drift into account when shooting through multiple buildings? Or do walls cancel it out? Maybe it's material dependant, like 2x4+drywall=normal ballistic calculations-25%
2x6+plaster=normal ballistics-45%?
 
If you’ve never done it? Don’t criticize. Don’t act like you can do better. But never have. I’m not saying I’m a sharpshooter. I’m not! But your keyboard warrior mentality lacks any depth here.

I posted a 4 shot group .762”. So that’s repeatable 100x? 1000x? You’re not capable of repeating your best group consistently. I don’t care who you are? Unless you were using some $3000 front rest and shit built for ELR guys
Let me preface this with “it is a fool’s errand (and generally a waste of ammunition) to attempt to impress/influence someone on the internet by shooting and posting groups.”

But, I needed an excuse to head out to the range. It is only 15 minutes from the house. And, 22lr is comparatively inexpensive.

Also, this was shot with a tac sol barrel jammed into a 35 year old Ruger 10/22 receiver sitting in a Magpul 10/22 stock, topped with a Bushnell Elite Tac 6-24x50mm scope. It’s a mil dot reticle and FFP design. And, yeah, that is a Harris knockoff bipod. This is not my “match 22lr rifle.”

And, while it is generally regarded as pretty good for cheap ammo, the CCI SV that I shot is not ‘match quality.’ The bullets also have the BC of a weathered brick, and an nominal MV of 1080 fps- though I did not measure that on this outing. This is not the ammunition I use for matches.

The wind was also blowing a gusty 10-20, and swirling on the range. It was gusty enough to push my reticle around, not to mention the bullet.

As it is significantly more “ballistically challenged” than the 308 win, most would consider 100y a “long poke” for a 22lr.

Anyway, the group posted below is one 50 round box of CCI SV shot at 100 yards. All impacts are accounted for in the image. The group size is 3.2” in diameter with a Mean radius of 0.89.”

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Let me preface this with “it is a fool’s errand (and generally a waste of ammunition) to attempt to impress/influence someone on the internet by shooting and posting groups.”

But, I needed an excuse to head out to the range. It is only 15 minutes from the house. And, 22lr is comparatively inexpensive.

Also, this was shot with a tac sol barrel jammed into a 35 year old Ruger 10/22 receiver sitting in a Magpul 10/22 stock, topped with a Bushnell Elite Tac 6-24x50mm scope. It’s a mil dot reticle and FFP design. And, yeah, that is a Harris knockoff bipod. This is not my “match 22lr rifle.”

And, while it is generally regarded as pretty good for cheap ammo, the CCI SV that I shot is not ‘match quality.’ The bullets also have the BC of a weathered brick, and an nominal MV of 1080 fps- though I did not measure that on this outing. This is not the ammunition I use for matches.

The wind was also blowing a gusty 10-20, and swirling on the range. It was gusty enough to push my reticle around, not to mention the bullet.

As it is significantly more “ballistically challenged” than the 308 win, most would consider 100y a “long poke” for a 22lr.

Anyway, the group posted below is one 50 round box of CCI SV shot at 100 yards. All impacts are accounted for in the image. The group size is 3.2” in diameter with a Mean radius of 0.89.”

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Well I’m not trying to influence anyone. I was posting 40 rounds at 100. I don’t think it’s waste. I’ll separate groups next time. Overall it’s not that bad considering most over 90% hit within 2”. Of course I can do better. But hey it’s learning.
 
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Who says? You? Cause according to mean radius? The 2worst shots in a group don’t mean shit. So what you’re saying is at 500 yrds? I can’t put put 37/40 hits in a 12” circle? Cause according to you I’d need a 22.5” circle at 500 yrds. And that is pure unadulterated BS. Lol
All I was saying is that is a ton on vertical and you would need a 22" plate based on your shooting. Work on the fundamentals
 
All I was saying is that is a ton on vertical and you would need a 22" plate based on your shooting. Work on the fundamentals
I wouldn’t need a 22” plate. 12” max. If I missed 3 shots? So be it, 37 would hit. Next I’ll do individual 5 shot groups. I know I can tighten it down. Hopefully down to 1.25” moa. Shouldn’t tough being 37 were within 2” to 2.25”
 
Well I’m not trying to influence anyone. I was posting 40 rounds at 100. I don’t think it’s waste. I’ll separate groups next time. Overall it’s not that bad considering most over 90% hit within 2”. Of course I can do better. But hey it’s learning.
It was a waste of ammo and time.

Next time do the following.

Shoot 2x6 dot drills, 1” pasties, one round per dot; 2 rows of 3 dots per target sheet.

First target (prone) - time yourself - shoot deliberately and take your time, execute the fundamentals to the best of your ability. Assess the results and take a short break

Second 2x6 target (prone) shoot the dame drill with the goal of keeping the same accuracy but consuming 20% less time.

Third 2x6 target (prone) - shoot again but try to run the drill in half the time as your first target without materially degrading your accuracy

Fourth target - (prone) shoot it support side if possible

Fiffh - shoot but assume a non-prone position - see what impact positional changes have on your performance.

All groups to be shot under time…

Just a few examples of what you can do if limited to only 100m and still want to learn/improve your skills.

Putting 40 rounds in paper through one target only shows you that bullets can penetrate paper.
 
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Well I’m not trying to influence anyone. I was posting 40 rounds at 100. I don’t think it’s waste. I’ll separate groups next time. Overall it’s not that bad considering most over 90% hit within 2”. Of course I can do better. But hey it’s learning.
To be fair, the mean radius reported (0.959”) correlates to essentially a 2” diameter, for the average impact. Naively, one might expect ~1/2 of the shots to be within this 2” circle. Counting, I get 17 that fall outside the circle. That leaves 23- or 58%- of the shots within the mean radius (2” diameter circle). I get that you’re trying to put a positive spin on this, but 58% is a pretty far cry from “most over 90%.”
 
60 shots magtec factory ammo, this target tells a story. Shooting 40 into a single point will blur
anyone's ability to read what is written on the target.

The story is that the rifle exceeds the shooters ability.


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Does one take spin drift into account when shooting through multiple buildings? Or do walls cancel it out? Maybe it's material dependant, like 2x4+drywall=normal ballistic calculations-25%
2x6+plaster=normal ballistics-45%?


If you have 200,000 rounds and an MG42 in 325 WSM..with a S&B PM2 on it...you only need to be 5 moa at 100 or 8 moa at 250.

Doesn't matter if it's concrete or anything with these bad boys.

Just let her rip. Good to have 20 barrels and 5 bolts with you.
 
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If you have 200,000 rounds and an MG42 in 325 WSM..with a S&B PM2 on it...you only need to be 5 moa at 100 or 8 moa at 250.

Doesn't matter if it's concrete or anything with these bad boys.

Just let her rip. Good to have 20 barrels and 5 bolts with you.
That sounds like quite the fantasy situation you find yourself in, even if Uncle Sam was footing the bill.
 
I'm bringing this back to the top, but am actively ignoring the clown show.

I didn't go to the range today intent upon dredging this thread back to the top. But, as I started "analyzing" the results, the ideal to create a composite group from the groups that I shot came to me. And, I was using the composite group idea to squeeze a bit more data from the rounds that were shot. Anyway, I shot a load dev test (100 yards) for my 224 predator with 75 gr Berger VLDs, starting at 27.3 grains CFE 223 and ending at 30 grains. The "average" 5 shot group size is 0.85 inch, with the best being 0.64 and the worst being 1.4 inch. I was shooting identical targets, so it was straightforward, though tedious, to create a composite.

Below you can see the individual groups as well as the composite group. Disregard the top left (unlabeled) targets, they were shots taken using a different load, to foul the clean barrel and confirm that the scope was pointed in the general area of the bullseye. The nominal muzzle velocity for all 50 shots is 3010 fps, with a standard deviation of 89 fps, and an extreme spread of 315 fps. If you handed this to a competitive shooter and said "good luck" he would probably puke and then pass out. That said, the groups size of the composite is a mere 1.97 inches (1.88 MOA), with a mean radius of dispersion of 0.48" (0.46 MOA). This is one example of why no one is impressed with a 4 MOA group of groups. An ES of 315 fps is trash tier ammo, but put a group up 4x smaller that the OPs group. (A circle with a 2" radius has 4 times the area of a circle with a 1" radius) Note that the square has 3 inch sides.

(Yes, BallisticX only shows 45 shots in the group. 5 of the shots were completely obscured by other shots, and I did not make an attempt to place them. That said, the reported mead radius of dispersion is slightly larger than the actual radius, as those 5 shots all fell within that radius.)

groups.jpg



Composite.jpg


Anyway, shooting stuff is fun. And, groups- even groups of groups- can be informative, but you have to be kinda smart about how you shoot them, and how you process them. You can't just blast a bunch of ammo down range and expect to learn anything. And, and, if you are going to shoot expensive ammunition (and what ammo isn't expensive these days?), you might as well have the intent to learn from every shot.
 
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