A new 1903 Sporter that I know nothing about....

[wareagle700]

This was a Christmas gift from my father this year and neither one of us has been able to find any info on this rifle or pictures closely resembling it. It's got standard markings for a 1903 A3 I believe but has a unique stock, bolt handle, and front sight. All the work done was professional, not a hack job here. Would love to know more. If anyone can help I'd be glad to provide more pictures.


[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/farm5.staticflickr.com\/4592\/39384550182_8ffacefe21_b.jpg"}[/IMG2]1903 Sporter by X Ring, on Flickr

 

[Dan M]

With a script serial number (looks like 322106 to me) that receiver was produced by SA very late 1907...make it an M1903.

Lyman 48 with a speed lock...is that a crack in the stock behind the receiver tang? I’ll bet there isn’t a bushing in the tang screw hole.

 

[jbell]

Sure is sexy!

 

[wareagle700]

Receiver is marked Rock Island Arsenal. Serial is 822106.

Not a crack at in the stock, just a line in the checkering. There's a small chip behind the tang where something hit it hard but no cracks.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Beautiful sporter! More pictures!

There are some amazing 03 Sporters out there. Under-appreciated and beautifully executed.

There is also a lot of total crap, sold by mail order gunshops for $5.

Guess which this category yours falls in? It's not the mail order crap category... that's a hint!

Post more pictures! Congrats

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[kuparj]

Didn't Rock Island only produce rifles into the late 300,000 ish serial number range?

 

[kuparj]

Also, it looks like the bolt shroud is marked with an R which denotes Remington 1903 or 1903A3 manufacture.

 

[wareagle700]

Didn't Rock Island only produce rifles into the late 300,000 ish serial number range?

thats what I saw. My father said there were some receivers stamped Rock Island that were actually finished and serialized later by springfield which is why it would have such a high serial number.

the barrel has original proof marks and is a lighter contour at the shank which led me to believe it was an 03 A3.

 

[Mr. Z]

I don’t know shit about it but I want it and it sure is purdy. More pics if you please.

 

[saturn]

Be glad to help. Send pics to [email protected]. Been collecting 03s for 50+ years.
Striker is from 22 RF Springfield. Lyman sight is worth $200 alone. What is barrel date ? Bolt has been scope altered, safety not. Had a scope mount along the way. Your Dad is correct about the action, unusual to see one. Interesting rifle!

 

[wareagle700]

I think he paid $450 plus a transfer fee for the rifle. Bore looks great, mirror finish.

Ill get some more pictures up and see what else I can find out. I think here was a 44 stamped on the barrel. But some other numbers also. I'll get specifics later.

Thanks y'all.

 

[Dan M]

Fradulent serial number. The last receiver serialized at Rock Island was 430742 in July 1919. The script font of the serial numbers are an early feature. Someone overstamped the first digit of your serial number. Rock Island Arsenal marked receivers serialized at Springfield Armory are in the 1.29 Million range and are in block font. There are also Rock Island Receivers with Springfield Armory markings and serial number, identified with a zero below the serial number.

It is a low number receiver and not recommended for shooting.

ETA- it appears that the 8 and the 6 in the serial number are of a different font from the 2210 in the s/n.

 

[wareagle700]

Here's a better picture of the serial number.

 

[Dan M]

The actual serial number is 2210.

 

[wareagle700]

Has a "31" stamped on the underside of the receiver behind the recoil lug. Barrel definitely looks to be a 03a3 and has a "44" on the second line, right side, behind the front sight.

I see what you are saying about the "6" on the serial number but the 8 looks to be the same as the others.

 

[wareagle700]

The actual serial number is 2210.

What makes you think the 8 isn't correct?

 

[Dan M]

Had to look at it on an actual computer monitor rather than iphone...s/n is 82210, a low number Rock Island not recommended to shoot. The added digit was to make it appear that it was not a low number receiver.

Rock Island receivers s/n 285506 and below are not recommended for shooting.

ETA- Springfield Armory receivers below 800,000 are not recommended for shooting as well.

 

[wareagle700]

Well that's definitely disheartening to hear. Are there any other marks on the receiver that would give an indication to the year it was made just to be sure?

 

[Dan M]

The book Rock Island Rifle Model 1903 by C. S. Ferris is the “bible” on the RIA M1903.

You can google search Low Number 1903 Springfield, get a copy of Hatcher’s Notebook. The subject is well known in the 1903 community. You might also try posting on the CMP Forum...hopefully John Beard will chime in, he is the foremost authority on the M1903 alive today.

There is no good news to be found on your rifle.

The issue with low number M1903 receivers goes back to the forging operation on receiver billets...some billets were burned during forging and then machined into receivers and subsequently carbourized, finished and built into rifles. Receivers manufactured from burned billets can and did shatter, often with a cartridge failure. There is no way to determine with non destructive methods whether the receiver was made with steel damaged at its chemical level. The Ordnance Department thought enough of the problem to insure that pyrometers were used during forging operations and to change the heat treatment procedure

 

[wareagle700]

So would a Rockwell hardness test be sufficient to call it "safe to fire?"

At this point with the sight, scope mount, barrel, and stock, I've probably got a good set of parts worth what was paid, if not more. The monetary value isn't too important to me. Id be fine keeping it as is and shooting it if there's a test to insure that it's safe to do so.

 

[sandwarrior]

Be glad to help. Send pics to [email protected]. Been collecting 03s for 50+ years.
Striker is from 22 RF Springfield. Lyman sight is worth $200 alone. What is barrel date ? Bolt has been scope altered, safety not. Had a scope mount along the way. Your Dad is correct about the action, unusual to see one. Interesting rifle!

I was gonna say, that striker looked different. More like a 1936 Mexican. I didn't know we made strikers like that.

 

[sandwarrior]

DAMN!! I didn't read the whole thread. Sorry to hear about your rifle being a low s/n. It is a really cool rifle. Keep looking, though. After owning one for a while, which I thought I'd never do, they've proven to me they are quite the rifle.

 

[Dan M]

So would a Rockwell hardness test be sufficient to call it "safe to fire?"

At this point with the sight, scope mount, barrel, and stock, I've probably got a good set of parts worth what was paid, if not more. The monetary value isn't too important to me. Id be fine keeping it as is and shooting it if there's a test to insure that it's safe to do so.

No. They were carbourized (case hardened) and are quite hard. The issue is that some of them are damaged at the chemical level and this was discovered by rifle receivers bursting in service. Some of this is attributable to poor quality service cartridges during WW1...but it highlights that low number M1903 receivers have no reserve of material strength. The change to double heat treated class C steel with a higher proof load and subsequent change to nickel steel for receivers and bolts shows that the Ordnance Department thought it was a serious issue.

 

[Dan M]

OP, you should be able to find an electronic copy of Hatcher's Notebook on the web... the information pertaining to this matter will be found in Chapter IX starting on page 212 (receiver Steels and Heat Treatment)

 

[wareagle700]

Thanks.

I guess ill keep an eye out for a high serial number receiver since I've got all the other parts.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

There are some options...

One is to shoot it with reduced loads.

Another is to simply find a good 1903 action (and there are lots of them out there) and have a gunsmith swap the barrel over. There was a guy here last year with a couple of actions that he got for about $50 each. There are a lot if crappy sporterized 1903's out there that can give you a donor action. The stock and metal work on that gun is nice enough to be worth upgrading.

Also, if the gun has survived this long and if the rifle has seen reasonable use as a sporter... it may be in a low serial number range... but also perfectly good. Not every rifle below the serial number range was a reject. Just enough of them that they don't recommend shooting them, especially if unknown. If you have any history of that rifle and it has been used successfully for years with no issues, I'd bet that it is safe. Despite the low number. But that is still a chance.... you may not want to take.

Keep an eye out for a receiver... shoot, if you want, with reduced loads. And appreciate the fact that you have a beautiful gun!!!!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[pmclaine]

A friend has a close twin to this rifle, I'll have to dig out the photos.

Michael Petrov was the authority on these but he has passed sadly.

The serial number issues are disturbing, someone took a nice gun and hoped to get more for it by taking it out of the low number category.

The USMC never recalled the low number guns and used them in numerous battles from WWI to WWII.

Their history does not recall a lot of Marines being killed by exploding 03's. That said there is still a concern.

USMC ended up with a lot of Rock Island guns and it would be interesting to see if yours is in the SRS files.

 

[wareagle700]

The gun has been shot more than a handful of times as well as the receiver being tapped for scope mounts so to me it should survive, I'm not too concerned with it blowing up. I won't be putting any old surplus ammo through it anyway, probably just some soft point hunting ammo that's already loaded pretty mild.

 

[wareagle700]

Problem solved.

Now comes the fun part of getting everything to fit together.

 

[sandwarrior]

Problem solved.

Now comes the fun part of getting everything to fit together.

Best of everything then!...

 

[VP47PPC]

This rifle has the look of a R. F. Sedgley sporterized SPFD.

 

[wareagle700]

Serial number problem fixed. Now it's time for some shooting.

 

[pmclaine]

You obviously have skills and dont mess around.

Only issue is that it might have been an original made gun by one of the many companies doing Sporters "back in the day" and if positively identified to any one building house may have been worth more "as was".

Sedgely and Griffin and Howe are among the better known but there were many that built these and the level of workmanship varied. The high end builders were well known and their guns are valuable.

Michael Petrov was the expert on these builds but has sadly passed. You can Google search him and see pictures/posts he has made on various places concerning these guns.

That said - Its hard to get one of these verified and the use of the 03A3 barrel tends to lead me to believe your rifle, though nice, is not one of the high end Griffin and Howe class builds.

I still owe you pictures of my friends gun similar to yours and Ill see if I can dig them up, photobucket no longer being convenient.

I think you will find your rifle plenty accurate with a good 30-06 load. Its a classic looking rifle.

 

[sandwarrior]

Wareaagle,

I gotta say that was a fast turnaround! Have fun shooting this!

I knew I had a picture somewhere of my 1903 that is still out in Idaho. I bought it chambered in 30-338. The bolt has been opened up to take the magnum face [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/shooting\/core\/image\/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP\/\/\/wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw=="}[/IMG2]​

Not a great pic but is indicative of how many of these were copied in the Segdely/Griffen and Howe style.

 

[pmclaine]

A similar Rock Island sporter...

 

[pmclaine]

 

[wareagle700]

It was an easy job because I was able to find a barreled action in the family. The new Springfield barreled action headspaced perfect with the original bolt and dropped into the stock like it was made for it.

I wasn't concerned with the value of the rifle since it had an altered serial number and no markings to identify it by. If down the road I found out it was highly collectable, which I doubt, I could quickly change everything back to the way it was if I felt the need.

 

[sandwarrior]

Okay,

How come some images show up from the old forum and some don't?

 

[wareagle700]

Any idea where I can get a replacement sight blade (the little piece that you adjust up and down on the side of the sight) for a Lyman 48?

 

[sandwarrior]

Any idea where I can get a replacement sight blade (the little piece that you adjust up and down on the side of the sight) for a Lyman 48?

This thing?

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/541810

 

[pmclaine]

This thing?

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/541810

Nah, I think he wants the little pointer that you adjust to record the zero on the elevation plate.

 

[wareagle700]

Yes, the pointer thing.