Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

[TresMon]

Greeting fellas,
So I'm being offered a one time really smoking hot deal, and having basically zero experience with better or great quality .22s.

I can get a Mk2 TR for just under my budget mark, or get a CZ 452 Silhouette for $22 over my budget. If I go with the CZ, I can't get a deal on a heavy barrel model. I'm boxed into the 452 silhouette (synthetic stock, sporter barrel) only. Here 'Tis

I'm leaning toward the CZ, but wanted to ask the pros. Thanks for your time thoughts and patience.
Tres

 

[AlabamaShooter]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick


I would go with the CZ heavy barrel, the varmit model I have is darn near as accurate as my Rem 40X in .22

Plus with the heavier contoured barrel you would have more material to work with if you ever wanted to get it threaded for a suppresor.

 

[TresMon]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick


Yeah but like I wrote a heavy barrel is unavailable for this discount I'm getting..?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

As I understand you cannot obtain a Varmint model, so I will not harp on that route. I have never owned the silhouette model but have owned the Lux and currently own the varmint model. Both are the most accurate rimfires I have ever owned and I have owned many. I do not own a Savage, nor will I ever own one. I did have the opportunity to see how several Savages performed in our tactical match at Conover in 2010 and I was not impressed. Two or three of the guys that shot Savages last year will be returning to Conover in March with a new CZ. Savage gets a lot of print all over the internet from IHMSA forums to Benchrest forums, until one would think they are the best firearm maker on the planet. There are better firearms than Savage, they are just a bit harder to come by and more expensive but worth the trouble.

 

[TresMon]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick


pl8 Chickn,

It's inadvertently going to come up, So I'll go ahead and ask. Why would you never own a Sav?

Thanks for writing,
Tres

 

[AlabamaShooter]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Ooops sorry TresMon, I read your OP too quickly. My bad. I would still get the CZ though.

 

[offroadr1]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

i have a cz 452 lux and varmit, no experience with the silhouette model, but i would think that it should be on par with other cz models. both of mine are very good shooters

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
pl8 Chickn,

It's inadvertently going to come up, So I'll go ahead and ask. Why would you never own a Sav?

Thanks for writing,
Tres</div></div>
Hmmm....now to choose my words carefully. I am involved in no kind of shooting in which a Savage firearm would be the best available

 

[Bill Larson]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

I own and compete with a cz-452 sil. mod......
figure another $50 for a trigger upgrade....
bill larson

 

[TresMon]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick


Bill could you share just a little more of your experiences?

Thanks everybody!
Tres

 

[nmmi9100]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

CZ452. I've got a CZ 452 American 16" that I got for this Christmas from my wife. It's a work of art machining wise and nice wood to boot. Savage Mark II's look pretty rough. CZ452 is much nicer.

My son has a CZ452 Scout that he saved his own money for, hauling firewood and picking up dog crap. He was willing to work twice as much to get the CZ over a Marlin. That speaks volumes to me.

Only downside of the CZ is the cost of mags. They're pricey as hell. But you only need 2-3 per gun so that's not a huge factor.

-David
Edgewood, NM

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

CZ trigger is actually a cheap fix with a yo dave kit. With his springs and shims you can get virtually no creep and a variety of pull weights. Mine is a varmint contour and it is accurate with cheap crap and lights out with Wolf Match....still cheap as match ammo goes.

 

[offroadr1]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nmmi9100</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CZ452. I've got a CZ 452 American 16" that I got for this Christmas from my wife. It's a work of art machining wise and nice wood to boot. Savage Mark II's look pretty rough. CZ452 is much nicer.

My son has a CZ452 Scout that he saved his own money for, hauling firewood and picking up dog crap. He was willing to work twice as much to get the CZ over a Marlin. That speaks volumes to me.

Only downside of the CZ is the cost of mags. They're pricey as hell. But you only need 2-3 per gun so that's not a huge factor.

-David
Edgewood, NM</div></div>



my varmit is in the turkish walnut stock and was a big part of the reason i ended up the particular one i got. it is a work of art for sure. i dont shoot it nearly as often as i would like to because i dont want to beat it all up.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act q

The wood was nice on mine but it didn't fit my needs so I sprayed it

 

[apache308]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Tres - CZ hands down. Having competed in several silhouette and tactical style matches and witnessed both the CZ452 and the Savage in action, the CZ is a clear winner. The MKIITR is a decent gun for the money, and will serve as a "good" trainer, but it is not the gun a 452 or 453 is. Our match in Conover, NC absolutely demands a reliable and highly accurate 22 rifle for precision shot placement at 200 meters. The Savages usually run mid pack. The Anny's, 40X's, Sako's, and CZ's are usually ahead of the Savages. YMMV. SR

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

"A clear winner" is subjective.

S A V A G E. Change nothing. Swap nothing. Enjoy the accuracy. If your CZ don't shoot 1/4" at 50 (and it won't with that nasty factory trigger), you know what time it is. But then again, I am simply biased.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

The OP indicated in a previous thread that "Accuracy was all that mattered."
I have yet to see a Savage beat my scores with a CZ and my trigger is not "fixed" yet. It would be hard to tell the difference between the Savage and the CZ at 25 or 50yds, and if that is the kind of shooting you do then a Savage will well serve your needs. If however you plan to stretch out the range and actually use the rifle as a trainer the Savage will NEVER beat a CZ. If it will I have yet to see it proven.

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

I have seen it all too often. That is why I chose Savages. Did I mention that the customer service is simply superior with Savage if you ever need it? Try that with CZ. And the last time I checked, one of the 1000 yards National Matches was won with a Savage rifle, not CZ. Of course, that wasn't the .22. Before I switch to CZ, I will buy Cooper but afraid after that I won't need a CZ...

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Savage certainly has no shortage of Fanboys, but that doesn't make them superior. Their centerfire rifles are pretty good out of the box and in the hands of a shooter they can and do win competitions. If you think that Accutugger is a good trigger then I feel sorry for you. If you ever get east of the Mississippi please come over to our match in Conover. If you can win the match with a Savage,with an Accutugger, I will pay you $500. That offer is for you alone.

 

[scsbronco]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

CZ hands down. The actions on the Savages are medieval and crude when compared to a CZ's design. I'm speaking of the RIMFIRES not the centerfires. I never understand when people bring up something that doesnt apply. Its like saying the Cavalier is better than the Mustang because Chevy makes the Corvette.

 

[buggsb]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

I haven't owned the Savage, but looked at them and I prefer my CZ 452.

Remember, "smokin hot deals" come and go all the time. If you're not in a great hurry wait and get what you really want.

 

[Davinho]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Anecdotal evidence only, but: I have a CZ-452 Silhouette that I've used in my local tactical precision .22 match. There were a couple of CZs and a couple of Savages. They were all shooters, but we got down in the dirt a fair bit, and there was some blowing dust, and every single Savage had feed/jam problems that cost the shooter points. Not one of the CZs had a problem. The metal magazines are pricey, but work very well. Actually, the cheaper plastic magazines have been flawless as well.

Free advice, and worth every penny.

 

[craigp40]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

No experience with the Savage, but I do have a 452 American, which the website states is essentially the same. Fantastic rifle...
The metal work and wood work are great.
Pickup some Wolf Match Extra or Wolf Match Target ammo and that thing will shoot 1/2" or better groups at 50yds.
As mentioned, expect to buy the trigger kit right off the bat. It's fairly cheap and easy to install. Makes a huge difference.
Bolt will need oiled and cycled about 100+ times to really get it smooth as butter.
Buy it. You won't regret it. Believe it or not, that rifle typically holds the most kills for groundhogs each year for me. Head shots on groundhogs with the Wolf ammo inside 100yds drops them instantly.

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you think that Accutugger is a good trigger then I feel sorry for you. </div></div>

Do you? No one is comparing Accutrigger to Ancshutz or FWB so please spare me from your expertise. My .22 CZ could NEVER match the accuracy of .22 Savage. Not at 50, not at 100. Not at 150 yards. Same shooter. Same glass. But that was and is MY experience. I am dying to see you winning a match with a stock CZ and that shitty factory trigger. Please. We are talking about factory rifles with no modifications, eh? And oh, be careful what you wish for. I might just stop by on the way to FL wnd get those $500. I am going to copy this thread for a proof. PM me your name and the phone number...

Can your stock CZ do that at 50 and do it consistently?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Can my stock CZ put 3 shots touching at 50yds? I wouldn't know because shooting paper at 50yds is useless to me, especially from a bench. Ruffle your feathers all you like but don't start crawfishing over semantics. Anyone with a little knowhow can improve the stock trigger on a CZ in a few minutes with no replacement parts whatsoever. What do I have to be careful about? If you can win at Conover with a bone stock Savage in 22lr there will be $500 cash waiting for you when you pull it off. You don't need proof, print anything you like. Several people who shoot at Conover are reading this and know what I say I mean. Bring it. Oh yeah PM sent.

 

[TresMon]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The OP indicated in a previous thread that "Accuracy was all that mattered." </div></div>

Accuracy is all I care about.

This is good! Let me get my popcorn & coke for the show...

 

[CCCCanuck]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

I've owned both a CZ 452 (FS) and a savage MK2. I still have the CZ. I was never impressed with the build quality of the Savage, CZ is much better quality. In regards to accuracy, with ammo they liked, I wouldn't say one was better than the other when I compared them at 50 yds.

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ruffle your feathers all you like but don't start crawfishing over semantics.</div></div>

I know...it's Internet.

If the benchrest is meaningless, I'll just ride a horse and shoot on the move, will that count...lol?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ruffle your feathers all you like but don't start crawfishing over semantics.</div></div>

I know...it's Internet.

If the benchrest is meaningless, I'll just ride a horse and shoot on the move, will that count...lol? </div></div>
No, 3 shot groups are meaningless.
Listen Ace. I have issued the challenge. Have you even bothered to find out what we do at Conover? It does not involve a bench or a rest and stage 2 is shot from an obstacle. No you can't shoot from horseback. No its not internet for me, I live in the real world and I shoot in the real world. Quit wasting my time and tell me when you will be arriving to show us how a real Savage fanboy gets it done. Second Saturday in every month starting in March. If you are going to Florida you may need to cut your trip short as Conover is a pretty long stretch from the Magic Kingdom.

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage will NEVER beat a CZ. </div></div>

I applaud to your real-world logic, ACE. A very confident bullshit. Please shake your slubber in front of your club buddies. I am not impressed. So far I see no proof or any kind of bases to support your statement, only keyboard jacking and opinionated arrogance.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Tres I appologize for highjacking your thread. I hope to bring this to a close very soon.
I have given this jackwad 2 phone numbers. I have issued a challenge that he has indicated, just now in a PM, that he doesn't understand, and did not understand the "terms". I will not copy and paste the PM unless he continues. He did not know it was a "public" match "open to anyone" yada yada...
He clearly has no substance beyond a couple 3 shot targets and wants MY F%$KING proof.

I am an assistant match director for IHMSA at CVRPC in Conover. I head up the Marksmanship Competitions for IHMSA. I am the assistant match director for the 22TSC at CVRPC and I shoot there on a very regular basis. I don't have to try out and I don't have to prove anything. There are plenty of folks that know me and know where CVRPC is located that will vouch for me that aren't just my "club buddies"

VYD it is over. Quit grasping for straws and go away.

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Mr. Director Ace Marksman Super Sniper. Now you speak the truth. What are you "defending" your illusion of superiority for? Greese your keyboard some more and spin that hamster wheel.

Go ahead and post your PMs here for everyone to see, with all the name calling coming from you. Real class. Real Pro. If your ego commands your judgement, this enslavement is on you, pal. Don't waste my time and finger power...

 

[toyfreak]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick


Sounds like you might want to buy both a Savage and a CZ. Shot em and sell the one you like the least on the Hide.

I love my TR but I haven't shot or even seen a CZ so...

I might get one just to compare the two.

You will be happy with either one, not that that helps any.

GL

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toyfreak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sounds like you might want to buy both a Savage and a CZ. Shot em and sell the one you like the least on the Hide.

I love my TR but I haven't shot or even seen a CZ so...

I might get one just to compare the two.

You will be happy with either one, not that that helps any.

GL

</div></div>

GL, I have shot and owned several CZs. They are great guns don't get me wrong. But I switched completely to Savage line of guns. This decision was based solely on MY experience. I am again buying CZ, however, but for my kid. I think 16" barelled Scout single shot model is indeed sweet. The trigger will have to be worked on, but that's not really a big issue for my kid who is the beginner. In fact, I won't want a hair trigger for someone who is just starting out...

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is good! Let me get my popcorn & coke for the show... </div></div>

Tres, I am afraid you will need more popcorn. This case is clearly beyond of all norms of a traditional psychiatry. LOL. Whatever you decide, either rifle will serve you well. The difference between the two is in the eyes of a beholder...

 

[berzerkrobot]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

I recommend the cz 452 action, its extremely smooth. I shoot about 600 rounds a month through my 452 american, and it always impresses me. I have a stock trigger. For me it can shoot CCI standard (their cheapest I believe) under 0.5" 5rnd groups at 50yds, and definitely shoots wolf match sub MOA 5rnd groups at 100yards.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

On one hand i hate internet arguments because they're trivial and meaningless but on the other i also love reading them alot too because some of the things said are just hilarious. Now im sure you two are both fine shooters but this is just the internet. There is absolutly nothing to get into arguments over and make fools of yourselves. Posting rediculous PM's and other shit like that isn't going to prove anything just like posting group pictures isn't going to prove anything. If you boys want to settle who/which brand is better in a competition then you need to meet together and be refffed by an un-biased 3rd party. That is the only way and unless that happens this needless arguing needs to stop. You two are acting like children and i would highly advise you both stop right now and be adults.

To the OP, i am in a similar position to yours. I can either buy a savage with everything i want included and have base/rings or i can buy a heavy barrel CZ with a regular stock and be out of money for everything else needed. I ultimatly decided on the Savage because it is so much more for the money. Both rifles will probably need a bit of TLC before they're exactly what you want but either way you'll be happy with it in the long run. Im choosing Savage because its better for me and my budget...

Good luck,
Dylan

 

[VYD]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TerrorInTheShadows</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm choosing Savage because its better for me and my budget...
</div></div>

Amen to that, Dylan. Personal preference.

And oh, you are right, this child play is hilarious, but I admit, I took a part in this imbecilic ping pong...

 

[TresMon]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick


Well, I ordered the CZ, and for good reason too!!

(I'd had to wait 40 days for the Savage to ship to me, 2 on the CZ!)

This made it easy ; ]

Thanks all,
T

 

[Roddy B]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

You won't go wrong with the CZ.

I prefer the wider forend of the Varmint for shooting off a rest. That said if you were getting a great deal on another model then go for it.

 

[TresMon]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick


WHOA!

I'm the proud owner of a 452 American Varmint.
I was waiting on CZ usa to get my little Silhouette model in to ship to me. It was supposed to come in to them from Czech tomorrow, them bill me and ship it out to my 'smith same day.. Last minute tonight A buddy called me talking to a fella looking to sell his like new 452 A. V. in 22 lr.
I ran over and bought it on the spot - $320. Looks NIB.

God blesses even His black sheep.
T

 

[AlabamaShooter]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Good snag! Enjoy it.

 

[TresMon]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick


How many mags do I need for a tac RF comp?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Great news Tres! That is a pretty good deal.
Depends on what you will be doing. Our match you reall only need 2, a 5 round and a 10 round. Loading mags between stages is not a problem.

 

[CCCCanuck]

Re: Advice:MK2 TR vs CZ 452 silhouette? must act quick

Great deal indeed! Hope you enjoy it!