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affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

#52
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
mouse07410 said:
308 and 223 ballistics are almost the same out to 600 yards, with a small edge to the 308 at 1K yards.


80gr SMK w/ 2600 MV: 1K yards, 1150 vel, 402in drop & 111in drift (10mph crosswind)
168gr SMK w/ 2700 MV: 1k yards, 1226vel, 363in drop & 100in drift (10mph crosswind)

80gr SMK @600 yd: 1614vel, 88in drop, 34in drift
168gr SMK @600 yd: 1704vel, 81in drop, 31in drift

For cheap and simple out to 600 yards, 223 is a great choice. </div></div>

Holy slanted match-up! We're talking AR platform, so magazine feed is obviously preferred. Now we're talking 77gr SMK in .223 (80 will be too long). For distance work, the 175gr SMK is far superior to the 168gr in .308.
Click to expand...
 
#53
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skycracksopen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And yeah, the M14 EBR was another one I was considering, but based on what I read online, it seemed like it was very similar to the M39 EMR, but harder to find. </div></div>

Other than the top rail cover and being different colors, the stocks for both rifles are the same.

All you need to do is order an M14ALCS with a 5 screw top rail that has the relief cut for the SEI scope mount.
 
#54
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssgp2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If you want to develop a long relationship with your gunsmith, you go with an M14 </div></div>

That's funny... not factual, just funny. </div></div>

Actually, that is quite factual. M16s are way easier to get to shoot and not finicky at all. M14s.....errr go do some more homework on that subject. </div></div>

That has not been my experience. I shot the AR for about 30 years before getting into M14s and other than one problematic M1A, all of my M14s are ultra reliable, extremely accurate and easy to shoot well. I turned in my homework years ago and scored 100.
 
#55
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

SR-25EMCARBINE1.jpg


Sub MOA Accurate, 1,500 rds suppressed reliability without cleaning, no adjustable gas port needed.
M16/M4 ergonomics.
 
#56
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
SR-25EMCARBINE1.jpg


Sub MOA Accurate, 1,500 rds suppressed reliability without cleaning, no adjustable gas port needed.
M16/M4 ergonomics.

</div></div>

You may not "need" one, but I call it one of the missing improvements which the M110 would greatly benefit from--
 
#57
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skycracksopen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Here are a few of the features I would want my future gun purchase to have:


-less than $2000 ...</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Sub MOA Accurate, 1,500 rds suppressed reliability without cleaning, no adjustable gas port needed.
M16/M4 ergonomics.

</div></div>

Hey Kev,

What's that one sell for? ... $6K?



BTW, I like the AFG like "nub" on the bottom rail.
 
#59
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

Does it come with a can of lube? I just can't see how any AR15 or AR10 is worth that kind of money. It's not like they had to reinvent anything.
 
#60
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

Bacarrat-
They have identical examples of their rifles caring a designation of "US RIFLE", along with a type classified model designation and NSN. That automatically raises the cost.

There are reasons for a higher price tag than some- materials used are going to be far superior to DPMS (if I had to guess, 7075T6 aluminum over 6061T6, stainless barrels, so on so fourth). But is it really $6000 worth of improvements? I don't believe so. I'm pretty confident it's the relation to military supply which permits the price... that and it makes the product more "exclusive" attracting some of the gun snob types. They don't have to worry about decreased sales from high prices since they supply to the government.
 
#63
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The SR-25 EM Carbine accuracy at 100yds
EMCGroup.jpg

EMCGroup29April.jpg


Consequentially the non chrome bore, and non dimpled barrel of the M110/M110A1
M110A1Group.jpg

M110A1Group2.jpg


M110A1Unsuppressed29April.jpg


M110A1Suppressed29April.jpg


Just saying...</div></div>


Yup. Nuff said.
wink.gif
 
#64
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does it come with a can of lube? I just can't see how any AR15 or AR10 is worth that kind of money. It's not like they had to reinvent anything. </div></div>

I agree Stoner rifles are expensive, always have been.

But thats like saying "I just can't see how anyone can buy a $100k automobile. How is any automobile worth that kind of money, it's not like they had to reinvent anything."

I'm just saying.
 
#65
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does it come with a can of lube? I just can't see how any AR15 or AR10 is worth that kind of money. It's not like they had to reinvent anything. </div></div>

I agree Stoner rifles are expensive, always have been.

But thats like saying "I just can't see how anyone can buy a $100k automobile. How is any automobile worth that kind of money, it's not like they had to reinvent anything."

I'm just saying. </div></div>

Well if you can get as good or better performance from a 50K auto as a 100K auto, then it is a valid statement.

-dan
 
#66
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does it come with a can of lube? I just can't see how any AR15 or AR10 is worth that kind of money. It's not like they had to reinvent anything. </div></div>

I agree Stoner rifles are expensive, always have been.

But thats like saying "I just can't see how anyone can buy a $100k automobile. How is any automobile worth that kind of money, it's not like they had to reinvent anything."

I'm just saying. </div></div>

Well if you can get as good or better performance from a 50K auto as a 100K auto, then it is a valid statement.

-dan </div></div>

Yup. Nuff said.
 
#67
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

Those are some pretty hand picked numbers. I've seen M110's that don't shoot any better than 1MOA. I've also seen some Larue OBR's that shoot .25 MOA. But, both guns have one thing in common- a stated minimum accuracy of 1 MOA. Tossing up a couple pictures of sub-MOA groups and leaving out the fact that they don't all end up like that, and that the actual standard is 1MOA is a bit misleading.

Real question is, if I buy an SR-25, it doesn't shoot 1/2 MOA or better, can I return it?
 
#68
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bacarrat-
They have identical examples of their rifles caring a designation of "US RIFLE", along with a type classified model designation and NSN. That automatically raises the cost.

There are reasons for a higher price tag than some- materials used are going to be far superior to DPMS (if I had to guess, 7075T6 aluminum over 6061T6, stainless barrels, so on so fourth). But is it really $6000 worth of improvements? I don't believe so. I'm pretty confident it's the relation to military supply which permits the price... that and it makes the product more "exclusive" attracting some of the gun snob types. They don't have to worry about decreased sales from high prices since they supply to the government. </div></div>7075T6 aluminum over 6061T6 at is i believe is the upper but the lower is good to from --somebody can resherch more on this one too!!
 
#69
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

DP425 - what you say is very true and thanks for posting that.

Too many people either have got lucky and managed to get a good one, or they managed to get one that hand tuned and had the spec's double checked before it left the factory.

You see one set of groups that are a ragged hole and figure you can go buy one and get that too, well, you are rolling the dice my friend. Chances are you will not get that, in fact.

The only way to ensure you get a good shooter is to have the clause that if it does not shoot to a certain level, you can take it back - like from a custom builder.


Also - rifles tend to be ammunition finiky - I have a LWRC that will only shoot the the Black Hills most expensive stuff. Any thing else and its a shotgun.
 
#70
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

Some of our G/A guys have test targets that are sub .200

My worst group I have gotten with M110's is .880, from a brand new gun. Get a few hundred round in it, with proper cleaning, and it will tighten up.

M118LR is not bad ammo (baring lots left in Iraq or Afghan for a while, that quickly becomes minute of barn door).

More importantly would be can the shooter shoot 1/2MOA given a gun and ammo combo that can do it?

I've seen a lot of people who cannot, both in and out of uniform.

All we guarantee is the gun will leave the factory shooting under what the contract requirement is, and for commercial sale guns that is under 1"


I've shot better groups, I was just testing ammo that day for reliability/accuracy for a foreign government customer.

I have not see any (to date) 16" SR-25 EM Carbines (which have Chrome lined barrels) that will not shoot under 3/4" - however 1" is the max acceptance.

However we have a bunch of old orginal Armalite AR10's, two where taken off the wall and shot 1/3 MOA two weeks ago, so other than reliability, not much is different over the generations...
 
#71
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since your Original Post referred to medium range, I'd be inclined to suggest you skip the .308 stuff entirely and go with an accurate .223 AR. I suggest you check out Compass Lake Engineering. If and when the time comes to go out to the Big K, then consider the DPMS LR-260.

Greg </div></div>
+1...that's what I was trying to say earlier. Since you are new, stick with simple: AR-15. </div></div>
Yup. I'd get something like an RRA CMP rifle, stick an optics on it, and shoot the 77gr SMK. Well within budget.
You can get the A4 version, so the optic fit nicely low, and with a NM carry handle (or any wind/elev adj. rear sight), you can swap the optic and shoot it irons too.
 
#72
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
However we have a bunch of old orginal Armalite AR10's, two where taken off the wall and shot 1/3 MOA two weeks ago, so other than reliability, not much is different over the generations... </div></div>

How are these original AR-10s different from today's Armalite AR-10?
 
#73
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

Sky..I am new to this site also and precison shooting..just wanted to let you know that I bought a bolt .308 PSS last year and also shot a Colt HBAR with fixed handle top. I used Fed GM match ammo in both rifle to start shooting. That was enough to get me hooked and soon ammo became way to $. So invested the $1500.00 in reloading equipment and have my price per 20 rounds down to nothing $8/box vs.$30. I am selling the HBAR and my Optics-to upgrade to a better semi and a better scope for my .308. My whole point here is if you are like me and on a budget this sport is incremental for sure. I am not a professional like some of the folks on this site...just a guy who loves to shoot!!
 
#74
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

What is the approximate weight of a semi auto in 308, with a free floated picatinny rail? Say in 16"-18" barrel.

What about AR based
LaRue OBR?
Armalite?
Noveske?
Knights?
DPMS?
etc...

vs the M14 in the aluminum stock? Probably to make things more even the M14 with a heavy 18" barrel.
 
#76
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

I haven't posted in here in quite some time, but it was because I was saving up money, not because I lost interest!

I know quite a few of you approve of the AR-10 SASS. What do you think of this:

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=113422

Does the setup and price look good, or does anybody know a better website?

I would rather buy new than used.

I might just get the gun now, and a scope & bipod later.

Speaking of scopes, how much would one with night vision run me, and where do they sell them?


Edit: oh, and what about suppressors?
 
#79
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

5.56 Noveske or BCM 16" middy

308 DPMS has the AR-10 platform appeal, with p-mags and all, but I'm skittish about the company and fear I'd have to send it off to GAP to fix it.

I'm leaning toward an FNAR. It meets your budget. A friend of mine is 100% satisfied with sub MOA accuracy and no malfunctions at 750 rounds, just Weaponshield and the occasional boresnake. Mag dumps, various surplus ammo, no problems. Of course it has proprietary mags and a pain to strip, but oh well.
 
#80
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

a few years ago I was at about the same place as you, had not practiced with rifles for years, was doing some .22 shooting. Since then I have done a lot of practice at 100 - 600 yd precision/field shooting (thanks to work being slow) and starting to get acceptable results so I will give my take on the best way to use 2000$ for precision shooting, not what you want to hear but with 20/20 hindsight many would agree. Start out take that .22 to an appleseed shoot (google it and find a local event, prepare per instructions) , get some very reasonable priced instruction and find a baseline of where you are at. Use this to decide what YOU need to progress, unlikely it will be a precision rifle at this point. It more likely would be a upgraded .22 lots of ammo + targets, range membership (make sure they allow position shooting) maybe some more weekends of appleseed instruction until you can shoot an expert score from field positions with the rim fire. By then you will have more idea what you want to work with to move on + hopefully will have borrowed/ tried some centerfires. If you want to go the 308 route it still is not time to get that semi auto, for .223 pick an AR more ammo + practice. For that 308 start with a basic bolt gun + scope (not much challenge to find one used) or I went with a stevens for 200$, now the ammo becomes the $ issue. It will take a couple thousand rounds of 308 to get close to the level you are at with 22. Next check out an appleseed bootcamp week -best 200$ instruction you will find! Bring that bolt gun and that by now well used 22 borrow some more semi autos (don't be cheap pay with some grilled steaks and chops) shoot a riflemans score at full distance (400 yards) with your bolty or AR. The bad news is now your 2000$ is long gone. The good is you have the most important part -the skills- hopefully you had a blast getting them, made some good friends who like shoot and can make your own well informed choice on that 308 semi (mine is a 18" Larue OBR that I am still not worthy of) but working on it
 
#81
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

That all sounds like great advice, but the more I think about it, the more I realize I might not have time to get into this as a full-time hobby.

Since I don't have a whole lot of time on my hands, I don't think I'll ever be the kind of guy that goes to the shooting range more than once or twice a month. It would be nice to have a lot of time and money to become a great shooter, but I just don't think that's a reality for me.

Because of that, I feel like I'd rather just have one gun that I am very proud of. Even if I don't get to go to the range much and I never become a very good shooter, I just like the idea of owning something like this.

In addition to that, I took the plunge last night and ordered myself an AR-10 Super SASS
shocked.gif


In a few days I'll probably order a scope and ammunition, so in a few weeks I should be the proud owner of a new gun.

Thanks to everyone who has given me advice and recommendations... feel free to keep them coming if there's anything else I need to know!

Also, what kind of 308 ammo do most of you prefer for this type of gun?
 
#82
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

If I really get into this, I'm sure I'll get into reloading, because ammo is damn expensive!

Any recommended websites & types of ammo to get me started would be appreciated!
 
#86
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

For an AR-15 I like the Colt 6920 but that's just my personal preference. For an AR-10 I like the G.A. Precision AR-10, there is currently a 9 month waiting list for this gun so you might as well put yourself on the list in case you decide you want one later. I also like the Armalite SASS AR-10.Another great gun is a Remington 700 XCR. Keep reading and talking to people. It also helps to buy some gun magazines. Good luck!
 
#89
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

I was just like you about 2 months ago. I went with an R-25. It's basically a 308 DPMS but sold by Remington. I got a Busnell elite 4200 6-24x50, a badger 20moa rail, and Larue QD Rings all right here on the hide. All at extremely good prices. Everything is stock on the R-25 and with the FGMM 175s I put 6 shots within an inch and 4 of those were touching. That was the first time I was able to go shoot it and I can't wait to try it at distance. I plan to try for targets at 1k an 1200 yds. I'll get there. All together I have about 1600 invested and those are all quality parts. Not bad.

Nathan
 
#90
Re: affordable accurate semi-auto recommendations?

i'd say go with the Armalite,. either buy the SASS or build your own. (I did)

P1020020.jpg


AR10withPREMIER.jpg


$1,500 for everything pictured not counting optics,. closest to the AR-10TBNF but it has a Rock Creek 24in barrel with the Surefire suppressor/brake addaptor


iron sights on it now,.. waiting on a proper 34mm mount for the scope since i sold the B.O. M107 rings that where on the Premier.
 
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