I think in this case it would have been better to say nothing, than give fodder to the anti-gun media. Perhaps Tom has learned his lesson as Palmetto-Pride mentioned above.
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AI Does NOT want more US Gun Control
- Thread starter Birddog6424
- Start date
I think in this case it would have been better to say nothing, than give fodder to the anti-gun media. Perhaps Tom has learned his lesson as Palmetto-Pride mentioned above.
pennies on the dollar my friend .... the media sucks so badly.
Well, the story made it to TTAG and they haven't updated it yet (I doubt they will update/retract it). TTAG is one of the largest firearms blog sites in the world and at least a few hundred thousand people (they get a few million page views per month) will read this fake news article on their site.
The author of the TTAG article, Dan Zimmerman, needs to unfuck himself and issue an apology to AI. Here's what he had to say in the TTAG hit piece:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-prez-america-needs-tougher-gun-control-laws/
The author of the TTAG article, Dan Zimmerman, needs to unfuck himself and issue an apology to AI. Here's what he had to say in the TTAG hit piece:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-prez-america-needs-tougher-gun-control-laws/
When it comes to firearms and the UK media not only are you wrong, you are way fucking wrong. And that's who Irwin was talking to.
And that's precisely why you do not talk to the media unless you absolutely have to (ie your work requires it). If you do, be extremely mindful of what you say and how you say it. And the suggestion to record the session (in compliance with the laws where the discussion takes place) is absolutely gold.
I'm lucky that my state is one-party consent for audio recording.
I'm pretty sure that Tom does not live in England, I'm pretty sure he lives in the US. I would be happy to bet that the Hockey game he spoke to Frank from was a Buffalo Sabers game.
Damn reporters are full of shit. No one can truly believe the CEO of one of the most profound bolt action rifle manufactures on the planet is pro gun control. Not even in the context of conflict of interest to inflate sales. Like Frank said it's pure click bait.
We all know the media can't be trusted. What the author of that article did wasn't just taking Tom out of context, it was outright fabrication. That's even worse than the usual shenanigans you'd expect from these critters.
Tom was in the US when he called me, he divides his time between the US and UK.
As Scott noted to several who were worried about this, Tom is an active NRA here in the US and fully the supports the 2nd Amendment.
Also, this was a bit of bait and switch. As Tom has followed up and forwarded me the article they were actually comments on. It morphed into the article being passed around. The reason Tom was speaking to the reporter had to do with this article which appeared at the same time.
https://www.standard.co.uk/business...ales-are-growing-at-a-fair-clip-a3707476.html
Again, it was based on the growth of the company and financial disclosure, not gun control.
As Scott noted to several who were worried about this, Tom is an active NRA here in the US and fully the supports the 2nd Amendment.
Also, this was a bit of bait and switch. As Tom has followed up and forwarded me the article they were actually comments on. It morphed into the article being passed around. The reason Tom was speaking to the reporter had to do with this article which appeared at the same time.
https://www.standard.co.uk/business...ales-are-growing-at-a-fair-clip-a3707476.html
Again, it was based on the growth of the company and financial disclosure, not gun control.
Barfcom wont STFU about it. But what do u expect from a place with moa challenges and staff who supports Lon hourichi.
More than a few people need to think about going back and revising their posts. Frank provided some good context on the comments made by AI.
I believe in the 2nd Amendment as much as anyone else, but some people are far too eager to grab the pitchforks and join the angry mob over very trivial stuff.
I believe in the 2nd Amendment as much as anyone else, but some people are far too eager to grab the pitchforks and join the angry mob over very trivial stuff.
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Unless the audio of the interview is provided, I tend to believe someone when the say they were quoted out of context, as it has happened to me.
It's pretty impossible to believe anything the media reports. It's all of them, there is not one legitimate media source anymore. They are all slanted and have their own agendas.
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Not necessarily adding anything new here, but even given the premise that any firearm manufacturer asking a majority importer of their product(s) to impart increased restrictions NOT being dubious, to say the least, is odd. Hell, it's paradoxical, no? I guess I'm just giving a another shout out for the HMFIC reaching out to the source to get the details instead of the shit media muddying damn near every aspect of our perception of anything in-country and the shores beyond. Ultimately, I'm just getting in on the point kengel2 just made and think it's sad there's no more sacred in the world to us here in the states it seems sometimes, just the sensational. Rant over.
This thing is on Facebook now. I saw a post on Griffin Armament's FB page reacting to it. One or two people(myself included) pointed out that Frank had spoken with Tom Irwin and the article was pretty much fake news, but it seems most of the FB people aren't buying that and are choosing instead to believe what the article said. A lesson in human nature, I guess. Some enjoy have someone to bash.
I hope Tom Irwin can sue the paper or the "reporter" for misquoting him. It's a damn shame if people can get away with stuff like that.
I hope Tom Irwin can sue the paper or the "reporter" for misquoting him. It's a damn shame if people can get away with stuff like that.
Has Mr. Irwin issued a statement to clarify unambiguously his support for the Second Amendment and stating that he believes in the unfettered right to keep and bear arms, including those with semi-automatic operating systems? By doing so, he can set the record straight.
Look, here's the issue...
I have no reason to believe Frank would lie, and I have no reason to second guess Frank's judgement on this. We all know that Frank is a good, honest dude.
However, as I said in the other thread... the story we are seeing here sets up a monumental case of libel. The article, literally, quotes Tom stating that semi-automatic firearms should NOT be legal in the US. That isn't a "slight" misrepresentation of "I have no personal need for a bump stock". That is a full-on lie; total fabrication. One that will have financial consequences, and it is impossible to believe that a reporter would not anticipate those consequences (done with malice). Interesting thing about UK libel law, is that the accused has to prove that the statements ARE factual (where here in the US, the one accusing must prove that they are not true, and the individual had reason to KNOW that they were not true); unlike the US, in the UK, the burden of proof is on the reporter. So I suspect the conversation is likely recorded...
So in my mind, this either results in a lawsuit, or Tom's story that we've heard so far, isn't accurate. This is a serious enough issue that no reasonable person would simply issue a couple statements then walk away from it. That's what people do when they are trying to back-track on shit they actually said.
Long story short; I'm giving it a few days before I decide to campaign against AI, to see what action AI and/or Tom take in response to this story.
I have no reason to believe Frank would lie, and I have no reason to second guess Frank's judgement on this. We all know that Frank is a good, honest dude.
However, as I said in the other thread... the story we are seeing here sets up a monumental case of libel. The article, literally, quotes Tom stating that semi-automatic firearms should NOT be legal in the US. That isn't a "slight" misrepresentation of "I have no personal need for a bump stock". That is a full-on lie; total fabrication. One that will have financial consequences, and it is impossible to believe that a reporter would not anticipate those consequences (done with malice). Interesting thing about UK libel law, is that the accused has to prove that the statements ARE factual (where here in the US, the one accusing must prove that they are not true, and the individual had reason to KNOW that they were not true); unlike the US, in the UK, the burden of proof is on the reporter. So I suspect the conversation is likely recorded...
So in my mind, this either results in a lawsuit, or Tom's story that we've heard so far, isn't accurate. This is a serious enough issue that no reasonable person would simply issue a couple statements then walk away from it. That's what people do when they are trying to back-track on shit they actually said.
Long story short; I'm giving it a few days before I decide to campaign against AI, to see what action AI and/or Tom take in response to this story.
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So you're issuing an ultimatum to Accuracy International: sue or else. Is that right?
LOL The internet is full of drama queens
Ultimatum? Really? I'm not in a position to issue an ultimatum. That requires someone to be in a position to leverage. This is what would be normally termed as a boycott (and even at that, I said I'm waiting to see what happens). I wouldn't make a substantial difference, but just one rifle is still a rifle not sold. This is the whole principle on boycotting.
Call it drama queen if you want, but not taking action to protect you and your business's name would tell me all I need to know.
If you ran a private school, and someone printed an article in the local paper quoting you as saying you hate children aged 2-5, especially if said children are black... would you simply make a couple statement's that "What I actually said was, I'm glad my own children are grown up; it gives me more personal time", then be on your way back to running your school with 20% less enrollment? Or would you file a lawsuit? If you took the first option, do you think it would be unreasonable for people to say "yeah, that guy is a child hating, racist fuck... I'm going to let everyone know so they don't enroll their kids at his school"? Or would that make someone a drama queen?
Businesses don't simply ignore such egregious cases of libel. Because failing to take action on it, demonstrates that it's true. It means, you have something that's been put out there, which is going to negatively impact your business, and you have absolutely nothing to refute it other than a statement; the channels exist for you to exonerate yourself, but you don't do it. And that's the whole point to this- words are good... but when we're talking about a discrepancy of this magnitude, your words are for shit if you don't back it up with actions.
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Or, Tom could be running his official response through his business partner(s) and legal team. Just a thought.
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What is truly ironic about this piece of nonsense is that pro-gun people have actually quoted this article and placed it all over the internet far more than any gun control proponents have. Use 10s of thousands of dollars (or more) to satiate a few complaints that barely represent a fraction of gun owners in pursuit of something that may have at best a questionable end result? Do any of you have any sense of proportionality? Why don't you direct some of your energy towards the news organization or the author responsible for this lunacy.
This is the first I am hearing of this whole debacle. From the looks of it, it seems like what Frank is telling us is exactly what transpired. You can't trust a biased, left-leaning reporter, to be on our side here. I feel that entire interview was reduced to some carefully picked words, minced up into the few lines you see in the article, in hopes of inciting the exact knee-jerk reaction I see here. It's sad that some of you took the bait.
I love my AIAX and have no plans of dumping it and in no way do I feel that AI/Tom is against the American gun owner and their 2A right's. Everyone needs to calm down, take a deep breath and move forward with their lives, oh and AI still kicks ass.
I love my AIAX and have no plans of dumping it and in no way do I feel that AI/Tom is against the American gun owner and their 2A right's. Everyone needs to calm down, take a deep breath and move forward with their lives, oh and AI still kicks ass.
It is necessary that I clarify to all of you the situation regarding a recent report in an English newspaper and set the record straight.
I never said that the US needs greater gun controls. Period. Words I said were taken out of context and the headline does not reflect the conversation I had or my beliefs.
I rarely speak to reporters (and after this experience I’ll be sure to continue that trend) but I had been asked to discuss our company’s recent financial report. The reporter published a separate article within a few hours after the first one. This one was a positive article - but also had mistakes. He got my name wrong and said the new AI was formed in 2015, when as many of you well know, it was formed in 2005.
To be clear, I support gun rights and the Second Amendment. I am also a member of the NRA.
I was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and came to the USA in 1982. I became a citizen, by choice, in 1989, and I am proud to be an American. I have called the USA home for more than 35 years and fell in love with this country because we have freedoms here that nowhere on earth you can enjoy.
As for AI’s tradition in the USA, AI customers and our presence here are of paramount importance to me. I have spent the past 18 years with Accuracy International and invested a lot of my time and AI dollars into meeting the needs of our US customers. I will continue to do that.
I have been a member of Snipers Hide from its beginning, frequenting and posting on this forum regularly. I have taken feedback from your posts and incorporated them into our products and processes to better support our community. I can assure you I will continue to take your feedback seriously.
I never said that the US needs greater gun controls. Period. Words I said were taken out of context and the headline does not reflect the conversation I had or my beliefs.
I rarely speak to reporters (and after this experience I’ll be sure to continue that trend) but I had been asked to discuss our company’s recent financial report. The reporter published a separate article within a few hours after the first one. This one was a positive article - but also had mistakes. He got my name wrong and said the new AI was formed in 2015, when as many of you well know, it was formed in 2005.
To be clear, I support gun rights and the Second Amendment. I am also a member of the NRA.
I was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and came to the USA in 1982. I became a citizen, by choice, in 1989, and I am proud to be an American. I have called the USA home for more than 35 years and fell in love with this country because we have freedoms here that nowhere on earth you can enjoy.
As for AI’s tradition in the USA, AI customers and our presence here are of paramount importance to me. I have spent the past 18 years with Accuracy International and invested a lot of my time and AI dollars into meeting the needs of our US customers. I will continue to do that.
I have been a member of Snipers Hide from its beginning, frequenting and posting on this forum regularly. I have taken feedback from your posts and incorporated them into our products and processes to better support our community. I can assure you I will continue to take your feedback seriously.
post # 34, from Frank says it all, either you call Frank a liar or you believe, its that simple, as simple as some of you instantly jumping Tom...
now we have Toms post, #85, you either believe, or, you are calling him also a liar.
Me? I believe...
i also would go after the bastard too,but, Tom is a good business man and a smart man, i will leave it up to him to proceed as he wishes...
i am satisfied.
i have been watching AI since they came around the hide and will support them with a rifle purchase
thankyou Frank and thankyou Tom
now we have Toms post, #85, you either believe, or, you are calling him also a liar.
Me? I believe...
i also would go after the bastard too,but, Tom is a good business man and a smart man, i will leave it up to him to proceed as he wishes...
i am satisfied.
i have been watching AI since they came around the hide and will support them with a rifle purchase
thankyou Frank and thankyou Tom
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Thanks Tom, I only own one of your rifles (If I ever catch just the right sale on a AX50 then I'll own two) but I never doubted that you are as staunch of a supporter of the Second Amendment as any hider. I did not realize prior to reading your post that you were a naturalized American.
not sure what the fuss is. badly blow out of proportion... but dam, growing up in Belfast? no wonder where you got the motivation to put out some of the best weapon systems in the world. Most of us will never understand that background. I work with some guys from Belfast and what they describe is growing up in an insurgency/war zone. anyway, getting late here in mid east, back to the Bushmills.
Thank you for responding directly, can you give any insight as to how you and/or AI are going to address this with the reporter or the publication itself?
Hi,
Do you think they (AI and/or Tom) are going to lay their potential lengthy and very calculated plans out on a public forum?
Would be pretty easy for other parties legal department to search for AI and/or Tom statements and use it against them for their own "spin" and/or use it to formulate their own game plan.
I would venture to say there is a reason none of the AI and Tom bashing threads have vanished....it is because AI can use them to show how this affected their business reputation and that Tom whose time is valued at x per hour had to make a public statement. That public statement in itself shows the court system of the disruption the blatant false article caused.
It takes more than 2 days to figure out just how much lose of business the article along with the mass spreading here and other forums have cost. AI could not partake in legal recourse until they had that data at least.
Sincerely,
THEIS
I said it in the bear pit and I'll say it here, if anyone is still looking to ditch their AI rifle over this I'll straight up swap you a DTA SRS 26in 300winmag with the new buttstock and 34mm scope mount for a AI AXMC .300 or .338 or I'll buy it for .25 cents on the dollar if it infuriated you that much.
I didn’t ask for a detailed brief back. There are any number of ways one could answer my inquiry and not cause themselves problems:
-“Beyond my comment here, we’re going to ignore it, and continue as usual; no more interviews, nothing more to see.”
- “We are going to request a correction to the article and go from there.”
- “I’m really not sure until I can talk to greater length with other key individuals at AI , but just like you, we want a just resolution to this situation.”
- “We have already handed this over to our legal department and they are running with it, to whatever extent they determine is practical, and achievable.”
And of course there is always this response:
”Sorry, I don’t have anything further to say at this time”
All that said, I don’t think this is some grand tactical scheme- as if knowing someone is looking into legal action against you for libel, that you KNOW you committed, is somehow an advantage.
I imagine the author already has a pretty good idea if they should expect a lawsuit or not.
LOL
AI does not have a "Legal Department" ...
They are not really as big as you think, they are probably the truest definition of a small business. They just happen to have a really big reach.
AI does not have a "Legal Department" ...
They are not really as big as you think, they are probably the truest definition of a small business. They just happen to have a really big reach.
To be completely honest you are severely overestimating what you rate by way of an explanation from AI.
I seriously doubt they give one single fuck about what it is that you want, and I doubt even more than they will tip their next hand even in the slightest after they were burned twice: once by the press and the second time by shitheads rushing to judgement.
Give it a rest.
It's good that Tom has clarified this. But I really don't care about all this stuff. As long as they continue to make the most bulletproof and versatile rifle, I'll be a client. It's not like you can find any serious alternative to an AI.
I'm not really concerned about this. As has been pointed out, the quotes are very limited portions of the larger conversation that are clearly being fit into another message.
Beyond that, I'm not very worried about the opinion - real or perceived - of a citizen of another country, about the laws in mine.
I would be concerned if there was a chance of a lack of support for the AI products I already own, but that seems practically impossible, at this point.
I'm happy to own an AI rifle, and will be happy to purchase more of their products when the time is right.
Beyond that, I'm not very worried about the opinion - real or perceived - of a citizen of another country, about the laws in mine.
I would be concerned if there was a chance of a lack of support for the AI products I already own, but that seems practically impossible, at this point.
I'm happy to own an AI rifle, and will be happy to purchase more of their products when the time is right.
I really would have never guessed that.
No less, they would almost have to employ or maybe contract out, SOME kind of legal representation.
Though it is interesting that they aren’t as big as their reach would have you believe, it’s still aside the point. Everyone is getting their dick’s in a vice because some are curious what happens next, and if Tom is interested in giving any indication of how they intend to handle this.
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To be completely honest, you are severely overestimating how much I give a fuck what your opinion is.
Companies, and their representatives, dealing with the public, will get questions of all sorts; that’s the hazards of engaging in public commerce. If they choose to answer those questions or not, I have no control over.
But I hardly think they need YOUR assistance in declining to respond to questions.
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