AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

[cox308]

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They should be ashamed of themselves. At least here at the Hide we know who had the skins first! They look exactly the same! Pretty lame of AI. It's also pretty irritating how in the video he keeps saying <span style="font-style: italic">WE</span> did this and <span style="font-style: italic">WE </span>did that. They should just say <span style="font-style: italic">WE</span> ripped the design straight from Viperskins and <span style="font-style: italic"> We</span> let Victor Company do all the work and R&D and then just copied their product!

 

[jasonk]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

I'm not saying they did or they didn't, I don't know. But you don't think that they could make the argument that Viperskins ripped off their AX look/design and simply brought it to market first for the AICS? I've never known AI to be quick about anything, so if they have these skins at SHOT then it's likely they've been on the drawing board since the AX was designed.

To think that they designed the AX and never once thought that they could make a similar skin for the AICS chassis until Viperskins had them is simply naive.

 

[Geronimo]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

They are close but not the same, and AI did come up with 2 designs, but I agree we know who did it first.

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

I wonder how much the skins will cost from AI. Plus the "FDE" color on the Viperskins is so much nicer than AI's pee yellow .

 

[GTGunner]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Those both look nice......way too close to Viperskins to be a coincidence. If I was in the market to replace my AICS Stage 2 skins, I would purchase the Viperskins.

 

[AWP]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not saying they did or they didn't, I don't know. But you don't think that they could make the argument that Viperskins ripped off their AX look/design and simply brought it to market first for the AICS? I've never known AI to be quick about anything, so if they have these skins at SHOT then it's likely they've been on the drawing board since the AX was designed.

To think that they designed the AX and never once thought that they could make a similar skin for the AICS chassis until Viperskins had them is simply naive. </div></div>

I agree.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not saying they did or they didn't, I don't know. But you don't think that they could make the argument that Viperskins ripped off their AX look/design and simply brought it to market first for the AICS? I've never known AI to be quick about anything, so if they have these skins at SHOT then it's likely they've been on the drawing board since the AX was designed.

To think that they designed the AX and never once thought that they could make a similar skin for the AICS chassis until Viperskins had them is simply naive. </div></div>

This ^^^

 

[poison123]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not saying they did or they didn't, I don't know. But you don't think that they could make the argument that Viperskins ripped off their AX look/design and simply brought it to market first for the AICS? I've never known AI to be quick about anything, so if they have these skins at SHOT then it's likely they've been on the drawing board since the AX was designed.

To think that they designed the AX and never once thought that they could make a similar skin for the AICS chassis until Viperskins had them is simply naive. </div></div>

Agreed.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

I like them more than the new AX...........rip off or not.

 

[96C]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

AI wouldn't have rushed into this... I'd say it'd have been on the cards since the AX was created.

Highly unlikely to have reacted to Viperskins (awesome product) in order to cut in on the skin craze.

 

[Lafayette]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like them more than the new AX...........rip off or not. </div></div>

Yup me too - love that high thumb well for support hand.

 

[George Mac]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

I am happy to see the ability to use flush cups. I'd like to see more on how they are set up.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Color me naive then. I think Victor Company took a page from AI's book (the AX ergonomics) and applied it to one of AI's legacy products. Whether AI had it on a drawing board somewhere or not, odd that it's shown up quickly once the obvious success of the Viper Skins has become apparent.

I see nothing offered by AI in this that isn't already available from Victor Company. I would also be willing to bet any suggestions or feedback from the community would be acknowledged and made part of future offerings from Victor Company a lot faster than AI.

"Everybody will just buy a new AX to get the pistol grip feel"

-"I think they are buying Viper Skins for a 6th the cost instead boss..."

"Well shit, we want a piece of that pie, lets get ours out on the market."

Whether they had the idea on a shelf or not is irrelevent, they were hoping we would all spend 1300 a head to get the newer design. Now that we don't have too, there's that design of theirs that may or may not have been waiting somewhere. Either way, its shady. They either held it back, or they copied Victor Company. I'm inclined to believe the former, they had it sitting on somebody's desk but why offer an alternative to their bread and butter AX till they have to.

Rich

 

[Hennig]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Im not going to lie, I like the look of the new thumbhole skins they have.

Still plan on buying a set of Viperskins though

 

[jasonk]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Well did you see that Manners has a folder...obviously an idea stolen from AI!

 

[Black-X]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

If the they make these for the AE I think I'll try a set.

 

[matt2143]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

At least there is more options now and maybe the viper skins will be updated to compete or at least keep hold of that little corner of the market...

 

[slivoman]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Competition only makes products better. Who knows, maybe the prices will start to drop too.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well did you see that Manners has a folder...obviously an idea stolen from AI!

</div></div>


Thats funny!

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Personally, I am doubting AI is reacting to anything by putting these out. I would imagine they have been working on the new skins for quite awhile and SHOT show is a good time to release new products. I am actually suprised they made them at all. New stocksides are hardly their bread and butter. I remember a year and a half ago you couldn't get standard AICS stocksides without a long wait. It just wasn't a priority for AI to make them available.

 

[Jmilera]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Maybe AI is realizing they can make a profit with U.S. shooting community.

 

[SSG3K]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Like anything ai they will be tough to get for a while. But what will make it hard is when you can just buy the chassis with the new ai skins. Viperskins wont go away as with anything they offer a choice.

Rich

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Hey Guys-

Nobody ripped off anybody.

Victor Company and AI have both designed stock sides to to fit the AICS and there are some ergonomic features like the pistolgrip that are simply just good design. We worked our design and so did they. They didn't steal our design nor did we theirs.

Our Viperskins are simply the best on the market. We offer features and innovation that others don't plus as anyone knows who has dealt with Victor Company gives the best customer service available and do it in a timely manner.

I am a shooter just like all of you and have created our products out of a need in the market rather than a way to make a quick buck. We will be here for a long time to come and have many exciting and well priced products on the horizon, Viperskins is simply the beginning.

Thank you for all the support for Victor Company, as an American company who makes every product here in the US, I look forward supplying innovative products for years to come!

Thanks,

MV

 

[DeputyDawg]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

^Bravo

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Boys and girls, I am here on the ground. I have Michael's skins on my AE. I had whispers that the AI stocksides were coming about the time the Viperskins were released. If you know anything about AI or about bringing a new product to market, its not something that happens quickly. The skins are an integral part to what makes an AI recognizable. AI is not going to take the design lightly. I firmly believe AI had this in the works before the Viperskins.

There are more differences than similarities in the two products. Both feel different, install differently and look different whenyou look past the single pistol grip feature.

I hesitate to go into any more detail than that until after I have some time to work with them.

Price is supposed to be around $150 and availability will be April/May

They are designed to fit the AW/AE as well as the AICS. I have not seen the backside of the skins yet, so i can't say if its swapping a piece or if there is some type of groove for a cutout.

I honestly believe this is a reaction to AI's old tooling needing a refresh and them a dressing the fit/finish complaints from end users.

Redarding the color, when I get back from the show I will get some side by side color correct images shooting the difference in the AI FDE and Viperskins FDE. Honestly, neither look to really be FDE. I will try to find a color swatch to compare them to. The AI is more of a "babyshit yellow" and the Viperskins are closer to khaki.

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

whoa, kinda crazy..

 

[mpmilton]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

This whining is ridiculous. Anyone who knows anything about AI knows they don't rush anything period. It sounds pretty assuring reading the comments above that they didn't rip anyone off.

As far as whining about there being two similar products on the market is ludicrous. It forces higher quality and lower prices or one product will be left behind. Point being: customers are left to benefit from the competition.

 

[rtr]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

I like my Viperskins more than what I see from AI in the video. Plus Mike is a great guy to deal with.

 

[lvmike]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Youre wrong. Heres why:

AI had this in the works at the minimum last years shot and Roedale has had their pistol grip skins (albeit for their very similar chassis) out for a few years. Anyways,<span style="font-weight: bold"> I asked Stacey last year if there was anything coming from AI like roedales product (Viperskins weren't public yet) and he said, "it is in the works." but would not comment further.</span>

This is a lot to-do about nothing. And that's coming from someone with a set of vipers.


Also: has no one noticed yet that the new thumb hole (folder) skins are the same front half as the pistol grip "version"? The backstrap with the thumb hole is interchangable with a set of rear stock skins and pistol grip backstrap.

 

[George63]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Price is supposed to be around $150 and availability will be April/May



</div></div>

this would be very surprising going by the pricing on other AI accessories, they have always had the business model of competing on quality/unique product, not price; cannot find a price on standard replacement skins but would expect it to be similar if not more for the new version

 

[jasonk]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Guys-

Nobody ripped off anybody.

Victor Company and AI have both designed stock sides to to fit the AICS and there are some ergonomic features like the pistolgrip that are simply just good design. We worked our design and so did they. They didn't steal our design nor did we theirs.

Our Viperskins are simply the best on the market. We offer features and innovation that others don't plus as anyone knows who has dealt with Victor Company gives the best customer service available and do it in a timely manner.

I am a shooter just like all of you and have created our products out of a need in the market rather than a way to make a quick buck. We will be here for a long time to come and have many exciting and well priced products on the horizon, Viperskins is simply the beginning.

Thank you for all the support for Victor Company, as an American company who makes every product here in the US, I look forward supplying innovative products for years to come!

Thanks,

MV


</div></div>

M .45

You sir are a class act! Glad to see you taking the high road, too many are quick to take the other route. Good for you.

Jason

 

[RN Submariner]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Victor Company USA Customer Service is excellent, just ask my wife.

Looking forward to seeing more innovations.

John MH

 

[AtOne]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

One nice thing I caught from the video is that the AI skins still have a hole in the trigger housing to access the action screw for removal without taking the skins off to get to it.

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

well said Sir.

By the way, being First with an idea is nearly meaningless. AI has invested $$$ in their brand, sales network and products - for years and years.

Viperskins went the cage, and smacked the Lion on the nose with a newspaper.

It is great that AI owners will have 2 choices now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

To think that they designed the AX and never once thought that they could make a similar skin for the AICS chassis until Viperskins had them is simply naive. </div></div>

 

[PDXGS]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Love my Viper Skins!
Now all I need is to find those cans of camo paint!

 

[TimResin]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Just like M.45 said no one ripped off anyone but I will support a american company over a british company any day.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like M.45 said no one ripped off anyone but I will support a american company over a british company any day. </div></div>

One of the most ignorant comments I've read in a while, thank you for the laugh.

 

[TimResin]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like M.45 said no one ripped off anyone but I will support a american company over a british company any day. </div></div>

One of the most ignorant comments I've read in a while, thank you for the laugh.</div></div>

Really thats why america has one of the worst economies in years because ignorant americans cough cough are buying foreign products so before you start talking nonsense at least learn what you are talking about.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like M.45 said no one ripped off anyone but I will support a american company over a british company any day. </div></div>

One of the most ignorant comments I've read in a while, thank you for the laugh.</div></div>

Really thats why america has one of the worst economies in years because ignorant americans cough cough are buying foreign products so before you start talking nonsense at least learn what you are talking about. </div></div>

I do know what I'm talking about, you on the other had are a little out there.

I'll break it down for you.

To support a American Company ie Viperskins you had to of supported a British Company in the first place. It's a AICS Chassis!

 

[TimResin]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Hence I don't own one and why I said I would rather support a american company before a foreign one.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

 

[Taken Out Slak]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Sure wish one of you would hurry up and try them both out so I can get some. Id have to say though Victor Co has my vote sofar just on class alone.

 

[el gordo2]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Price is supposed to be around $150 and availability will be April/May
</div></div>

I certainly hope this is true, would purchase a few sets at that price.

On the other hand, $220 for a set of viperskins is a bit much, but that's just me talking out loud.

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

I'll tell you who came up with the Pistolgrip none thumbhole design skins for AICS type stocks first.

<span style="font-weight: bold">That was me. and thats a fact. </span>

Due to clusterfuck German engineering companies not doing what the promised ( they lost in court by the way, next round is for compensation, we will see how that goes) and the major importance of the car industry over here compared to the minor, (absolutely minor) importance of a one and a half man band custom rifle company wanting plastic parts from the injection molding industry. I never managed to get the damn skins made apart from a half dozen prototypes.

Michael Victor went about getting the Viperskins produced. He swears he never saw my RCS II prototypes pictured on the hide before starting out with the Viperskins and i don't care if he did of if he didnt.
Irrelevant, he could get the things made and I couldnt and I'm greatfull that he is producing them and supply has been so far on time.
Great product, very ergonomic.

I realy like the latest version without the extra screw through the non folder version and no action screw cut out holes in the underside.

The Tikka T3 Tactical and Varmint look the absolute dogs dohnuts in the FDE-Sand coloured Viperskins on the RCS II chassis.

Michaels pricing is what it is and under it its probably not worth him bothering, hes a far smaller company than AI. Plastic parts are cheap to inject, but the tooling is expensive, (especialy for a small company) and there is a fair lot of work getting the injected product retailable.

AI's AICS injection molding equipment was worn out, you could tell that by lokking closely at the AICS pannels. They had to make new tooling and I figure it made sence for them to go with the updated AX type look.

I guess that makes the original AICS sides a desirable "retro" look.
Ive got 1 brand new set of the old old type with no adj cheek.. and i'm keeping them for a special memory lane rifle one day..

I guess the end customer will decide which skins he likes better, certainly he now has more to choose from.

I would like to see them all in more colours. weve just done a RCS II chassis in pinik anodising, it looks well with black skins, but Blue and Red skins would be attractive to certain elements of the civilian market..


rgds Pete

 

[sr15match]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just like M.45 said no one ripped off anyone but I will support a american company over a british company any day. </div></div>

One of the most ignorant comments I've read in a while, thank you for the laugh.</div></div>

Really thats why america has one of the worst economies in years because ignorant americans cough cough are buying foreign products so before you start talking nonsense at least learn what you are talking about. </div></div>

I'd like to see Tom Erwins take on this but, if I remember correctly when I met with him prior to the Viper Skins hitting the market he made mention of AI releasing replacement skins for the AICS that were simular to the then not yet released Viper Skins.

Also, remember that all AICS, AX and the skins are produced in America, just on the out skirts of Buffalo, by Americans. I've been there, seen the shop, met the guys and it's impressive what they put out the door with the little space they work in. So anyone thinking they are buying a UK item is very wrong but this subject has been beat to death before in an other thread.

So for AI ripping off Viper Skins, I say wrong........... AI just isn't quick at the punch at getting new products out.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Well boys, Mr. Dave Walls asked me to post this for him. If you shoot an AI and don't know who he is, you need to look it up. He is currently the Director of AI.

He stated to me that is would be extremely simple for them to make a set of skins for one model. It wouldn't take any time at all. However their goal with these skins is to cover as many AI rifles as possible. It apparently took quite a bit of time on their part to make the new skins backwards compatible with all previous configurations. They stated that Victor Company just beat them to market.

I didnt detect any animosity about Michael's product she I mentioned that I have a set on my AE. I don't think AI is the least bit worried about it.

Like many products on the market, there are benefits and drawbacks. The biggest benefit to the AI Skins is that they will come with your chassis.

 

[Iloveguns]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

All for the little man!! Micheal V is top notch in my book. Will be sticking with Viper skins and Accu-Stacks and what ever else he has coming.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

MV has customer service that is above anything I have seen. He's here for the people and to make the sport a better one.

Well done Mike, keep up the good work.

Jake

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

Are the AI skins for the fixed stock 2 or 4 piece design ?

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AICS new skins=Viperskins rip off!

The AI skins are more than four pieces if I understood correctly. They have a kind of overlapping lock system. As soon as I get a chance to see them off the rifle I will get some photos.