AK question for those in the "KNOW"

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chupathingy

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Oct 22, 2007
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Joshua Texas
#1
Thinking about buying an AK or "variant" as hog/brush gun. I handload, so ammunition that would be adequate for the task isn't a problem. However my knowledge of AK's is limited as far as manufacturer's is concerned. I am not looking for the cheapest, but I'm not looking to have to take out a loan for it either.....in short, I'm willing and prepared to pay what it takes to get a good one that will both function reliably and be accurate(sub 2 MOA) out to 100yds.

One that I have found that interests me is the EAA Zastava PAP, mostly just because of the integrated rail. But to be honest, the price tag scares me a bit(Sub $500). I would think that quality would come a little steeper than that?

Is this particular rifle worth owning? Do you have other recomendations? I really like the idea of it being Optics ready.


Chupa
 
#2
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

Safe bet is an Arsenal Ruski or Bulgi either way they build them right.

For 7.62x39 dont bother reloading IMO not worth it at all. You can pick up 1200+ rounds of ammo (Yugo from ammoman) for 230.00 TYD. The Yugo IS corrosive but also brass cased and about the most accurate surp ammo I know of (2-2.5" @100) and more important its reputed to be MUCH more reliable than Wolf etc.

As for scope mount IMO the best set up going is the Ultimak w/red dot. I'm running a Trijicon MRD that I picked up in the FS section here at a great price. Midwest Ind/US Palm also makes a good rail but I wanted to run a light and the MI/Palm set up got cramped on the handguard.

Google Larry Vickers AK-47 and you will find some good AK info.

Cheap AK's are fine if you are the sort to tinker with things, its a crap shoot in regards to fitment but its an AK so its all relavant to your individual expectations.

If I were to do it all over I would have built one from new parts from K-Var on a US milled receiver...which is probably going to be how I build my next in 5.45x39
 
#4
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

The AK is not exactly a tack driver, so you may be disappointed in the accuracy of an AK. I like the Norinco. It is as stout and reliable as any AK is. I know some guys are gonna bag on me for recommending a Chicom gun, but in my experience, the Norinco's are the most reliable of them all.

Ammo isn't really a problem as 7.62X39 ammo is plenty. Handloading for accuracy in an AK is kind of an oxymoron. the ammo is only gonna be as accurate as the platform going to be.
 
#5
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

I'd recommend an Arsenal. They are some of the better built AK's straight from the factory. For accuracy potential, you're going to be pushing it in order to get 2 moa. Probably closer for 4 moa, but with an Arsenal you can get closer to 2 moa. As mentioned earlier for ammo, the best available right now is the Yugo surplus through ammoman. It is mildly corrosive but is brass cased instead of steal. I wouldn't be worried about corrosive ammo in an AK because thats what they were designed for and is whats still being used in 3rd world countries. Just make sure you do a good wipe down/cleaning after firing it.
 
#6
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: general_purpose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Handloading for accuracy in an AK is kind of an oxymoron. </div></div>

HaHa! I didn't do a very good job explaining what I meant by handloading for the AK did I? I meant handloading projectiles meant for hunting purposes instead of just using ball ammo. Sorry about that.

If ya'll really think I'll be that disappointed in the accuracy than I'll probably just have an AR built.... 6.8SPC,7.62x39 or .450BM.


Chupa
 
#7
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

That appears to be a rail on a dust cover, if it is its worthless. Most dust coveres are nowhere nere sturdy enough to hold an optic. Look at a siga conversion with a quality rail like midwest industries or samson.

Most of the other aks are summed up hi country of origin. Stay away from romanian and you should be good to go. Also be careful of century arms as they butcher a lot of stuff they touch.
 
#8
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

"M4's are more reliable than people think and AK's are more accurate than people think"

For bush gun hog hunting IMO you will be GTG. Is it a precision rig hell no but Min of Man easily or in this case Min of Pork.

I would seriously advise against an AR in 7.62x39 as there is no longer a source of decent mags and that is the short pole in the tent. If you insist on going that route PM me and I'll make you a hell of a deal on a 30 upper.

Problem for other pig worthy calibers in an AR is they are not as cheap as the 7.62x39, you mentioned reloading for hunting which is fine but the biggest advantage to the AK or the 7.62x39 round is its cheap which means much more trigger time.

A few options to an AK but still chambered in 7.62x39 would be the Sig 556R but its 2K and the Ruger Mini 30. The Sig uses AK mags and the mags for the Mini seem to be reliable and not difficult to find.
 
#11
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

Not to smear the PAP (sic) it is a bastard AK. First it is a 10 rd mag and wil not take the std AK mag. The terrible thumbhole stock cannot be replaced because it is not standard and no one make an aftermarket stock for it. That being said I own 4 Arsenals and they are all great. I own 3 milled and 1 stamped. I shot my Bulgarian SA 95 milled this weekend and was hitting a 9" paper plate offhand at 100yds. A milled version can run $1500 or more but I bought my 3 used for around $650 each.
Check out Gunbroker.com
 
#12
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

Used slr-95 Arsenal ak's are nice and around 8 bills. Other then that find a new sam-7 arsenal. Personally I like the real bulgarian arsenals, before they came to usa. Mini 30's really dont like the russian steel laquer ammo, and fail to hit every primer to ignite (love taps some)

What ever u do, go milled on the reciever. I own both versions of arsenal, stamped/milled and milled groups much better. You tube has some impressive slow-mo vids of stamped flex vs milled.
 
#13
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

I am not having good luck with the mini-30 and Roosian ammo. Seems the light firing pin and spring on the hammer just don't git er done.

winchester ammo goes off well. My mini is more accurate than my AK but my AK eats all the ammo I've put in her.

I'm loving my polymer 20round mags, light and strong, no malfunctions to date, knock wood.
 
#15
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

I have only owned 30 or 40, so take this for what it's worth.

Romanians and Polish have had the best Barrels, with good ammo both should meet your sub 2 MOA (Think 123 grain A-Max and IMR 4198 loaded Hot)

Arsenal's are Hit and Miss, I have seen a pile of them that would have been stopped by the CC folks at CAI. Finish is good on them tho. If Headspace and loose rivets are not a issue for you, check'em out.

CAI Romanians are also hit and miss, they are well put together and Headspaced properly, but may have canted sights and or fitment issues.. both easily fixed by the layman.

Yugo's are built like Tanks, heavier 1.5mm receivers, bulged trunnions. Original bbls are Normally junk, years of war with corrosive ammo and no chrome lining took it's toll. Most builds were done with Nodak receivers and Green Mountain barrels... they normally shoot good.

If I could have only One... Give me a Romanian G kit built on a Nodak, or a Egyption Maadi. Truth is tho, it's hard to find a "bad" one.

You will find all your answers at http://www.akfiles.com/
 
#16
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chupathingy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: general_purpose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Handloading for accuracy in an AK is kind of an oxymoron. </div></div>

HaHa! I didn't do a very good job explaining what I meant by handloading for the AK did I? I meant handloading projectiles meant for hunting purposes instead of just using ball ammo. Sorry about that.

If ya'll really think I'll be that disappointed in the accuracy than I'll probably just have an AR built.... 6.8SPC,7.62x39 or .450BM.


Chupa </div></div>Even the more expensive AK's or AKM's would be pushing the envelope, for accuracy that is, at sub-2MOA. I read an article on the Kriebs that did about 1.5 MOA at 100, but it was shooting handloads and it runs about 1250$. Yikes. I think you would be better served with an AR platform myself. JMHO.
 
#18
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

Whatever AK you buy, send it to Rifle Dynamics and let them clean it up for you. Everything will work great after that. You can have one of the most reliable AKs for under $1,000. Only downside, you will have wait a while... 6-10months. http://www.rifledynamics.com/

Any factory AK is a crapshoot, so it would be best to have someone clean it up anyway. I have one that is arriving any day now, and plan to send them a bunch more over time.

Go with KVar and Ultimak parts if you want to sturdy it up a bit more.
 
#19
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many of the people shooting sub-2-MOA with an AK are doing it with the standard iron sights? </div></div>

I do. But we use RPK rear sights - they are better to change windage in case of need.



But really good combo is microaimpoint on ultimak zeroed at 100 meters and co-witnessed irons set on 300 meters.
 
#22
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lefty06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you thought about an sks, mine seems more accurate than my ak just not as stylish. </div></div>

+1, my SKS is at least half the group size of my AK. I can easily hit 2 liter bottle size targets at 200yds with my SKS and cheap wolf HP's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Roadwild17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stay away from romanian and you should be good to go. Also be careful of century arms as they butcher a lot of stuff they touch. </div></div>

I had two of these and still have the one, it has chugged unknown thousands of rounds without a hiccup, and is just as accurate/inaccurate as any other AK I've seen.
 
#23
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

Oh man... good ole WASR-10 modified to take high capacity magazines, Tapco trigger, KVAR stock set, AK flip up night sights, lots and lots of any ammo that I have been able to buy super cheap, chinese 75 round flip back magazine...

One of my most sad days was the day I had to sell that setup. Freakin accurate, super reliable, looked awesome, great ergonomics... and dirt ass cheap on the price tag.

I have seen hundreds and hundreds of bucks spent on Arsenals and the like... I would take my WASR over then 100 to 1 any day.

DK

She is the sexy one sittin in the middle...
14017SnyperBG3.jpg
 
#24
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

They do make apeture sights for Comm Bloc weapons, which I imagine would help in the accuracy department when using irons.
And aside from SKS's, there's the option to pick up a bolt gun chambered for the 7.62 Russian cartridge. Several different reputable companies make them, though I haven't played with'em.. yet. IIRC there are some Sako's, CZ's, & others.

Anyone care to share experiences with Robinson's multicaliber rig? Given that one of it's main chamberings is in the themed cartridge.

From what I've run across, those who hunt with 7.62x39mm tend to use premium/controlled expansion type bullets. Particularly given that the bullet weights run light for the caliber, & also at a lower velocity. Seems to put meat on the table though, & hitting with it isn't overly much a problem.
 
#25
Re: AK question for those in the "KNOW"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chupathingy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: general_purpose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Handloading for accuracy in an AK is kind of an oxymoron. </div></div>

HaHa! I didn't do a very good job explaining what I meant by handloading for the AK did I? I meant handloading projectiles meant for hunting purposes instead of just using ball ammo. Sorry about that.

If ya'll really think I'll be that disappointed in the accuracy than I'll probably just have an AR built.... 6.8SPC,7.62x39 or .450BM.


Chupa </div></div>


Save your time on handloading. You can buy cheap ass wolf, silver, brown or whatever bear SP's and drop hogs. A little better performance from Hornady 123 AMAX in 7.62x39, hell 5.45x39 with a 60gr VMAX kills hogs fine out of my 8" barrelled bulgy Krink. 7.62 is the safer choice if you get into big mean hogs.

Cheaper would be mildly corrosive Surplus (7N6), it'll kill hogs fine.

Edited to add: Hornady steel cases are not coated and will rust like a MOFO in humid climates. Something to consider.
 
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