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American Ammunition Company 77gr SMK HPBT
- Thread starter S197
- Start date
If you go to the ar15 link you will see PSA posting. Josiah is his name and if anyone has ANY problems with anything PSA message him. He will take care of it. He is one of their main people and handles everything on forums. Don't call PSA itself. You will run into delays and problems. But Josiah will have it sorted out the same day.AAC Saber ammunition . . .
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/AAC-55-gr-Saber-ammo-Case-Failure-/16-782183/
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A friend and I went and tested several of the lower priced ammo flavors. AAC 77gr. SMK and 77gr. OTM were two of them we tried. We shot a 5 round group at 100 and 400 using an 18” and a 14.5”.
18” WOA SPR barrel
1:7 twist
18” 77 SMK 2767 FPS ES 37
100 yards: 1.00”
400 yards: 5”
18” 77 “Precision” OTM 2761 FPS ES 108
100 yards: 1.19”
400 yards: 3.5”
I will say this seems to be dirtier than other stuff. I shot some of it then followed up with some M193, all suppressed. The AAC brass i picked up was filthy while the Lake City brass was dirty but still brass colored. Will add that pic below as well.
I added the whole list of what we shot. The Precision OTM did surprisingly well for $11/box.
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Is this the same company out of FLA. that sold ammo labeled A-MERC about 10-15 years ago?AAC Saber ammunition . . .
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/AAC-55-gr-Saber-ammo-Case-Failure-/16-782183/
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Palmetto State Armory bought AAC from Remington when they broke up due to the bankruptcy several years ago. Realistically they bought the name. They now produce ammo in South Carolina. They form their own brass and extrude their own lead for projectiles in their other ammo.
Thank you for sharing all this great info.
Super interesting results 100yds vs 400yds.
And not doubting your results in the slightest, but any idea / speculation as to how the groups "improved" ( MOA wise ? ) at 400yds vs. 100yds for some of the various rounds fired ?
Or am I misunderstanding something ?
And wow... that is some filthy AAC brass. I still would like to know what powder AAC uses.
No. Thankfully A-Merc is dead.
PSA / AAC ammo does produce its own brass ( multiple calibers ) some loads use AAC produced projectiles ( again multiple calibers ), and AAC is close to producing their own primers.
FWIW, AAC used to produce suppressors as well, and PSA ( JJE Brands LLC ) now produces that suppressor line.
JJE Brands is a big 'ol company.
https://jjech.com/portfolio-companies/
I'd be willing to bet there are other companies not yet listed.
I have shot a few hundred of the 77SMK 5.56 from AAC and had students shoot a few thousands when I was teaching
Pros
Accuracy has been very good
SD has been very good
Cons
Dirty as shit
Pros
Accuracy has been very good
SD has been very good
Cons
Dirty as shit
I had mixed results shooting AAC. SMK's did the best accuracy for me out of my BA 18" SPR barrel. TMK's were a very close 2nd. I chronographed the SMK's on a 2nd trip and got an average of 2630 fps, which surprised me a little bit considering that I typically get 2750 from Hornady Frontier 75gr's and similar speeds from IMI Razor Core. ES and SD were also not great of the AAC SMK's, the Hornady and IMI are tighter.
I also shot the AAC "Black Tip" 75's, and the AAC 77gr OTM. My spread on those @100yds was the worst out of 6 different loads I tried. The black tips particularly had quite a few fliers. But ymmv depending on what your barrel likes. I too noticed dings in cases across the different AAC loads I ordered. I didn't check OAL on any of them. I did notice that the AAC stuff shoots dirtier than usual though. I did not notice any blown primers.
I think the AAC SMK loads are good for the price, certainly accurate enough for range use or otherwise in a pinch compared to BH or IMI, etc. But I'd need to do more testing on the other loads again to make up my mind on them.
I also shot the AAC "Black Tip" 75's, and the AAC 77gr OTM. My spread on those @100yds was the worst out of 6 different loads I tried. The black tips particularly had quite a few fliers. But ymmv depending on what your barrel likes. I too noticed dings in cases across the different AAC loads I ordered. I didn't check OAL on any of them. I did notice that the AAC stuff shoots dirtier than usual though. I did not notice any blown primers.
I think the AAC SMK loads are good for the price, certainly accurate enough for range use or otherwise in a pinch compared to BH or IMI, etc. But I'd need to do more testing on the other loads again to make up my mind on them.
i bought the 77gr OTM and had very good accuracy and POI compared to razor core in an LWRC piston.
here was velocity string from a 16” chromelined fn barrel:
2718
2713
2684
2700
2718
lost the data from the LW but have gone through about 200 rounds in both barrel so far with no problems.
I didn't realize how cheap their 77gr OTMs were.
Honestly considering stocking those over 55gr...
Honestly considering stocking those over 55gr...
Update.
The rifle likes the AAC stuff just as well as Black Hills, IMI, and stuff.
I'm confident this ammo is good enough that I (my shit wind reading skills) am the weak link in the weapon system. Elevation is always consistent. Windage call is consistently inconsistent
Try them with and without the suppressor and see how they group at 100yards...barrels are very picky as to what they like! Try them from the bench with a good F-class rest.Update.
The rifle likes the AAC stuff just as well as Black Hills, IMI, and stuff.
I'm confident this ammo is good enough that I (my shit wind reading skills) am the weak link in the weapon system. Elevation is always consistent. Windage call is consistently inconsistent
Attachments
I don't shoot that rifle unsuppressed and I don't shoot from benches with F Class rests. I shoot from bipods with a rear bag or from barricades/tripods/odd positions.
some are some arent. i have a couple barrels that dont care what goes down them, they group the same. never noticed my aac cans or the htg changing grouping either but those are the only ones i have.
I too shoot from bipods and a rear bag, tripods also...Molon tests accuracy from a bench set up and I do as well...only way to know how truly accurate your ammo is....there is too much room for error with a bipod! I don't use a silencer as I do not like to breathe burned powder....it ain't healthy for you! Your rifle sure looks nice....a great book is "Accuracy and Precision For Long Range Shooting" by Bryan Litz. This book has helped me greatly!
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: AAC 77gr 556 from PSA just kicks ass. Zero issues. Super consistent. Nails 12x18 IPSC at 650-yards every time at $0.55/rd. Virtually no reason to buy 193 or 855 plinking ammo at nearly the same price.
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Just sharing my recent AAC 77gr experience…
Like many, the allure of getting MK262 at $0.55/rd was too much to resist, so I bought 2K rounds from PSA sometime last year (I think it was a smidge higher back then, maybe…).
I just let it sit until last month, when I had a fantastic class (CR2’s 3-Day Light Fighter — can’t recommend highly enough, was EPIC!) that would be 100-700 yards at a variety of targets, positions, and conditions.
Like most Noobs without a clue, I decided to take a rifle that had never been shot and had just come out of the Cerakote oven the night before Day-1 of the class. We reassembled the gun, wet it down, and packed it into the car along with 1K rounds of cheap knockoff AAC ammo I’d never shot — ‘cuz if you’re gonna FAFO, you should go all the F’n way.
Arrived at the class with a never-fired gun and never-tested ammo and, after taking 20 minutes to get everything dialed-in, never looked back. Gun and ammo ran flawlessly. I was reliably nailing 12x18 IPSC at >650-yards and everything in between, consistently (assuming I did my part).
The ammo never did anything it shouldn’t have done and never let me down. If I can consistently hit a 12x18 plate at 650 with every round out of a 14.5” suppressed 556 AR, I don’t see what more I could ask. It looks like it might run a little dirtier than IMI or BH 262, but that’s just a guess.
So… I ordered another 2K the moment I got home. I have a boatload of IMI and legit MK262 Mod 1C, but can’t see paying >2x the price for something that delivers little to no practical advantage.
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Just sharing my recent AAC 77gr experience…
Like many, the allure of getting MK262 at $0.55/rd was too much to resist, so I bought 2K rounds from PSA sometime last year (I think it was a smidge higher back then, maybe…).
I just let it sit until last month, when I had a fantastic class (CR2’s 3-Day Light Fighter — can’t recommend highly enough, was EPIC!) that would be 100-700 yards at a variety of targets, positions, and conditions.
Like most Noobs without a clue, I decided to take a rifle that had never been shot and had just come out of the Cerakote oven the night before Day-1 of the class. We reassembled the gun, wet it down, and packed it into the car along with 1K rounds of cheap knockoff AAC ammo I’d never shot — ‘cuz if you’re gonna FAFO, you should go all the F’n way.
Arrived at the class with a never-fired gun and never-tested ammo and, after taking 20 minutes to get everything dialed-in, never looked back. Gun and ammo ran flawlessly. I was reliably nailing 12x18 IPSC at >650-yards and everything in between, consistently (assuming I did my part).
The ammo never did anything it shouldn’t have done and never let me down. If I can consistently hit a 12x18 plate at 650 with every round out of a 14.5” suppressed 556 AR, I don’t see what more I could ask. It looks like it might run a little dirtier than IMI or BH 262, but that’s just a guess.
So… I ordered another 2K the moment I got home. I have a boatload of IMI and legit MK262 Mod 1C, but can’t see paying >2x the price for something that delivers little to no practical advantage.
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Sir, I have shot bipod for decade after decade and if shot from correctly it will be as accurate or more accurate than the free recoil technique many (when using a field worthy rifle in a bench rest) bench rest shooter use
As an International F TR shooter I have seen many times F TR shooters shoot as well as the top Open class shooters under good conditions
As a long time sniper and sniper instructor I have seen bench rest groups from bipod shot sniper rifles.
It’s all about technique and if your inconsistency with a bipod it’s either ammo, rifle or shooter if groups are not good
What's the velocities you guys have been seeing? I shot some to confirm zero and check dope when my order arrived and it seems slow as shit. It shoots well but I need to double check some things because the dope is putting it at 2550 from an 18" LMT. Seems oddly slow for 5.56 stuff.
I’m getting 2725ish from my 18” Criterion and 2810 from my 20” Kreiger.
2750 @ 68⁰f, 2775 @ 90⁰f from my PRI made 18" Douglass
Better not be slow as I have 1200 sitting here waiting to throw down range.
AAC 77 OTM has nearly identical velocities as my go to 77 IMI razor core. Both loads group just under an inch in my 20” WOA 223 wylde plinker.
20” White Oak 223 Wylde barrel, Velos LBP can
Temp 86 DA 3480
AAC 77 OTM average of 10 - 2834 es 46 sd 14
IWI 77 Razorcore average of 7 - 2804 es 48 sd 19
Temp 86 DA 3480
AAC 77 OTM average of 10 - 2834 es 46 sd 14
IWI 77 Razorcore average of 7 - 2804 es 48 sd 19
I don't have a chrony, but just had this case rupture with the 77gr OTM.
Bought on 11/21/23
Lot # SCL1CK131
In my bolt gun the 75gr has been the most consistent.
I keep having fliers with the 77 SMK.
The 77OTM has been good for the cost, but my rifle prefers the 75 for the same cost.
Bought on 11/21/23
Lot # SCL1CK131
In my bolt gun the 75gr has been the most consistent.
I keep having fliers with the 77 SMK.
The 77OTM has been good for the cost, but my rifle prefers the 75 for the same cost.
I have been shooting the 77 otm load quite a bit and it performs well for me. 600 is no trouble for it. Had 1 primer come out so far but cases are all good. Have heard from other people the lot they got was slow so might be some issues with lot to lot performance.
Makes a guy wonder if the brass is a bit on the brittle side. Wonder if the material supplier is sending material on the hard side and after working it it makes it out of spec and ruptures because it’s too hard and not pliable enough. Rockwell tester?
Just put some scotch tape over the split and load away with it. There was an arms room in the building I worked at when a contractor and when the contract was winding down one of the gunsmith’s brought in some split cases and a reloading setup and reloaded and fired the case 8 times and just laughed because it was fine. No they weren’t run over a chronograph or grouped but they were just shot into a snail with no ill effect to the bolt gun.
Just put some scotch tape over the split and load away with it. There was an arms room in the building I worked at when a contractor and when the contract was winding down one of the gunsmith’s brought in some split cases and a reloading setup and reloaded and fired the case 8 times and just laughed because it was fine. No they weren’t run over a chronograph or grouped but they were just shot into a snail with no ill effect to the bolt gun.
Yeah, my split case didn't even produce a flier in the group I was shooting.
No marks in the chamber.
I sent PSA an email, but havnt heard back yet.
It's odd it seems like it's always the 77OTM, not their other loads.
I saw some AAC 6.5CM ruptures also when searching.
No marks in the chamber.
I sent PSA an email, but havnt heard back yet.
It's odd it seems like it's always the 77OTM, not their other loads.
I saw some AAC 6.5CM ruptures also when searching.
Well crap, now I need to go check my 5.56 range ammo; I have several hundred rounds of that 77gr OTM…
Not sure what I’ll find in unfired brass though; I never save my .223/5.56 brass because I don’t shoot that caliber for precision and therefore am not invested in any higher end (i.e. more expensive) components. For me personally, it's usually cheaper to just buy new…but again, I typically don’t buy “expensive“ 5.56 ammo
Not sure what I’ll find in unfired brass though; I never save my .223/5.56 brass because I don’t shoot that caliber for precision and therefore am not invested in any higher end (i.e. more expensive) components. For me personally, it's usually cheaper to just buy new…but again, I typically don’t buy “expensive“ 5.56 ammo
I don't mind some issues on a new ammo they rolled out. But they don't seem to be trying to fix the issue at all. This has been going on for nearly a year.
shit, guess i’m lucky. have close to 1000 rounds down range on 2 barrels and 3 lots without a single issue. just bought another batch last week with a different lot number so will be demo’ing those this weekend.
wonder if these are tight chamber issues?
wonder if these are tight chamber issues?
I'm in the process of breaking in my White Oak Armory barrel and have been using this ammo with pretty good results. I'm averaging .75MOA which isn't bad, I suck 
. But after looking at all these issues with brass, I'll probably toss it all in my recycle pile and avoid trying to reload it.
. But after looking at all these issues with brass, I'll probably toss it all in my recycle pile and avoid trying to reload it.
It was the in -House 77 OTM? Do you remember about when you purchased it?
Mine was in a Wylde chamber bolt gun too, and no effect on the groups either so I would think weak brass, not over charges?
Does anyone know IF the Wylde chamber would be more prone too these ruptures?
Not everyone says what chamber they were using so I have no idea if the majority have been in Wyldes.
(I just ordered a couple boxes of the 75gr HPBT because I keep having light primer strikes with the lot I bought early 2023. No LPS in the other 5.56 AAC loads I have tried. Just the 75HPBT and IMI MK262.
I contacted PSA via their website, but never got a reply about my case rupture with the 77OTM)
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Do you @celltech have your "Lot #'s" ?
And I would suggest contacting Josiah ( @https://www.ar15.com/member/user.html?id=158425 ) on AR15.com in the PSA Industry section.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Palmetto-State-Armory/301/
Here are the powder weights of 50 rounds that I pulled. 77smk. Lot# SCL2BL271
24.7-2
24.8-6
24.9-7
25.0-10
25.1-1
25.2-1
25.3 -14
25.4-7
25.5-2
The average is 25.1 I'm not too thrilled with the .8 high to low. They shoot "well enough" but I wish the case ruptures weren't happening.
24.7-2
24.8-6
24.9-7
25.0-10
25.1-1
25.2-1
25.3 -14
25.4-7
25.5-2
The average is 25.1 I'm not too thrilled with the .8 high to low. They shoot "well enough" but I wish the case ruptures weren't happening.
It's the 77 OTM...lot SCL1DC041. I have been buying it here and there and could not tell you when I got this specific lot. I noticed the first rupture when the case didn't eject because the pressure blew out the extractor (Savage action...they do that on events like this).
I thought it strange and put everything back together and threw my chrono on. Fired a few more rounds and got another one. I don't recall what the velocities were, but I remember not considering it that hot...I have loaded rounds that were hotter. Packed it up and called it a day.
Threw my borescope in the chamber and there were 3 burn marks/pitting, so I must of had a 3rd one and not even realized it. I am guessing the brass is just not that great????
Interesting you could see marks in your chamber. I could not decern anything really different in mine.
Its odd to me that all the ruptures I have seen online have been the 77OTM.
Wouldn't you think AAC is using the same brass (That they make apparently) on all their loads?
PSA never answered my email, so I shot another box of the 77OTM today with no issue. Guess I'm just gonna keep shooting it. lol
Its odd to me that all the ruptures I have seen online have been the 77OTM.
Wouldn't you think AAC is using the same brass (That they make apparently) on all their loads?
PSA never answered my email, so I shot another box of the 77OTM today with no issue. Guess I'm just gonna keep shooting it. lol
I can't believe PSA makes different brass specific to certain 5.56 loads, It might just be a batch of "bad" brass.
Not trying to minimize the issue, just thinking out loud.
I have over the years seen fired brass like these from numerous manufacturers.
Sometimes a bad over-sized chamber can be a issue as well, one from a worn out reamer.
Not trying to minimize the issue, just thinking out loud.
I have over the years seen fired brass like these from numerous manufacturers.
Sometimes a bad over-sized chamber can be a issue as well, one from a worn out reamer.
I have never seen new brass blow like that except in oversized chambers. If the chambers are correct I think the brass is just bad
Only time I see brass go like that is resized to many times or worked to much from using SB sizing die. I think AAC has a problem in brass making
I have shot a bunch of it with only complaint being dirty as can be ammo Seen a bunch shot by students with great results as well. Hopefully this is a stumble and not a problem that does not get fixed
Only time I see brass go like that is resized to many times or worked to much from using SB sizing die. I think AAC has a problem in brass making
I have shot a bunch of it with only complaint being dirty as can be ammo Seen a bunch shot by students with great results as well. Hopefully this is a stumble and not a problem that does not get fixed
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