American Rifle Company New Archimedes Action, New Xylo Chassis, and major Mausingfield revision

[NWnewguy]

The action I received has 1/8" of free take up at the bolt handle before the lever does its magic and that only retracts the bolt ~0.031" and more than half of that is given away under the extractor.
View attachment 7159667

Does this mean that you've had problems with extraction?

I can follow the math, but I don't know from experience how much extraction is necessary to pull a case from a chamber. I would assume there was some testing done prior to production or they would have adjusted the load point of the lever closer to the beginning of its motion. I would think that the 1/8" of free movement prior to it striking the load would potentially increase the force exerted on the leverage side of the fulcrum by creating some inertia prior to making contact. I'm certainly interested in hearing if anyone has issues with extraction though. That was one of the selling points of the action.

 

[RogueTanker]

Does this mean that you've had problems with extraction?

I can follow the math, but I don't know from experience how much extraction is necessary to pull a case from a chamber. I would assume there was some testing done prior to production or they would have adjusted the load point of the lever closer to the beginning of its motion. I would think that the 1/8" of free movement prior to it striking the load would potentially increase the force exerted on the leverage side of the fulcrum by creating some inertia prior to making contact. I'm certainly interested in hearing if anyone has issues with extraction though. That was one of the selling points of the action.

I ran it this weekend at the GAP Grind. Using the same load data and barrel, I had some sticky brass. The extraction method was the following-1. Lift up and cock firing pin. 2. Pull back until stopped. 3. Give it a pop to pull the case out. I didn't have any issues gett8ng brass out at all. The downside to stuck brass is that to keep the motion smooth, you have to give the bolt a yank to overcome stuck brass. This causes the brass to fly into the next county... Or your partners face.

 

[hereinaz]

I ran it this weekend at the GAP Grind. Using the same load data and barrel, I had some sticky brass. The extraction method was the following-1. Lift up and cock firing pin. 2. Pull back until stopped. 3. Give it a pop to pull the case out. I didn't have any issues gett8ng brass out at all. The downside to stuck brass is that to keep the motion smooth, you have to give the bolt a yank to overcome stuck brass. This causes the brass to fly into the next county... Or your partners face.

So, it sounds like instead of having to pound open the bolt with sticky brass you just have to give it a pop with the bolt handle as a lever, I don't know that I would expect anything different than what you described.

Would you say it was a little easier to call the brass with an Archimedes or hammer open a bolt?

 

[CMP70306]

Did you order directly from ARC? What was the lead time? I'm torn between the LRI Hunter, and the M7. I really want the M7, but not if there is a long lead time. I don't mind wating, but I'm not interested in a PVA John Hancock debacle .

I ordered an M7 long action on July 3rd and received it October 3rd so exactly 3 months after placing my order. Currently the website says 2-4 months which is pretty accurate.

 

[RogueTanker]

So, it sounds like instead of having to pound open the bolt with sticky brass you just have to give it a pop with the bolt handle as a lever, I don't know that I would expect anything different than what you described.

Would you say it was a little easier to call the brass with an Archimedes or hammer open a bolt?

I would say easier to pop the bolt back into my shoulder than the traditional camming over. The lever has much more mass for me to pull against rather than rotating the bolt up and "over" with a traditional design.

 

[DanGTG]

Does this mean that you've had problems with extraction?

I can follow the math, but I don't know from experience how much extraction is necessary to pull a case from a chamber. I would assume there was some testing done prior to production or they would have adjusted the load point of the lever closer to the beginning of its motion. I would think that the 1/8" of free movement prior to it striking the load would potentially increase the force exerted on the leverage side of the fulcrum by creating some inertia prior to making contact. I'm certainly interested in hearing if anyone has issues with extraction though. That was one of the selling points of the action.

A credit card is ~0.031", so if we end up with half of that or less due to tolerance stacking it really doesn't leave much actual extraction under tension, or the ability to build up much tension to pop a case free. It seems like a lot of added complexity for possibly negligible benefit over the Nucleus or other traditional actions.

I was under the impression that with the Archimedes the limiting factor on leveraged extraction was with the case and not the action.

My action had never been built up and it's back at ARC for bolt modification and evaluation.

 

[Ledzep]

Maybe try building and using it?

Am I crazy?

eta: FWIW, how far do you have to pop a morse taper on a lathe loose before it just falls out? Food for thought.

 

[ddavis]

Maybe try building and using it?

Am I crazy?

eta: FWIW, how far do you have to pop a morse taper on a lathe loose before it just falls out? Food for thought.

I really don't think its going to take much movement to break a case free. Great point on Morse taper.

 

[Supersubes]

Maybe try building and using it?

Am I crazy?

eta: FWIW, how far do you have to pop a morse taper on a lathe loose before it just falls out? Food for thought.

You're not crazy. Some of the people in this thread though...

 

[Chili47]

Maybe try building and using it?

Am I crazy?

eta: FWIW, how far do you have to pop a morse taper on a lathe loose before it just falls out? Food for thought.

I am with you there its amazing how many people bitch about a product before they even get it together. I have a early number nucleus and after a few hundred rounds it smoothed up and is just as good as my bighorns. I have never seen a action that feeds .223 so smooth!

 

[D2junky]

I ran it this weekend at the GAP Grind. Using the same load data and barrel, I had some sticky brass. The extraction method was the following-1. Lift up and cock firing pin. 2. Pull back until stopped. 3. Give it a pop to pull the case out. I didn't have any issues gett8ng brass out at all. The downside to stuck brass is that to keep the motion smooth, you have to give the bolt a yank to overcome stuck brass. This causes the brass to fly into the next county... Or your partners face.

So having my action in hand and running it with the Triggertech Special I have a little bump on close which appears to be coming from the cocking piece and I really have to pussyfoot it to even feel it. I’m seriously considering running it as is.

Any plans to send yours in or will you continue to run it?

 

[RogueTanker]

So having my action in hand and running it with the Triggertech Special I have a little bump on close which appears to be coming from the cocking piece and I really have to pussyfoot it to even feel it. I’m seriously considering running it as is.

Any plans to send yours in or will you continue to run it?

I've got the same trigger and I can definitely feel it. Running it slowly into battery typically resulted in it getting hung up and stalled out. Running it medium to fast it'd go into battery no problem. My action is boxed up with the trigger and shipping back today. I'm just gonna get it done now and not regret waiting

 

[CMP70306]

I am with you there its amazing how many people bitch about a product before they even get it together. I have a early number nucleus and after a few hundred rounds it smoothed up and is just as good as my bighorns. I have never seen a action that feeds .223 so smooth!

Same here but out of curiosity does yours have any light strikes with different .223 ammo? Mine had zero with my 6.5 Creedmoor barrel however when I switched to .223 I get them while shooting Hornady Frontier ammo but not match or handloads. I’m thinking it’s because that ammo is designed for ARs and has harder primers but I haven’t put the 19# spring in to test it.

 

[Chili47]

Same here but out of curiosity does yours have any light strikes with different .223 ammo? Mine had zero with my 6.5 Creedmoor barrel however when I switched to .223 I get them while shooting Hornady Frontier ammo but not match or handloads. I’m thinking it’s because that ammo is designed for ARs and has harder primers but I haven’t put the 19# spring in to test it.

I have only had issues with cheap factory ammo. Hornady match shot fine and i shoot 75 eld handloads and have had zero light strikes since.

 

[RogueTanker]

Using someone else photo, but, during the grind, that screw, backed out on day one, after about 170 total rounds on the action since I received it. I caught it in between stages right before totally falling out and pout a dab of locktite on it. That was and still is a bit concerning to me. Just thought I might let people know to check.

 

[Steel head]

View attachment 7160309

Using someone else photo, but, during the grind, that screw, backed out on day one, after about 170 total rounds on the action since I received it. I caught it in between stages right before totally falling out and pout a dab of locktite on it. That was and still is a bit concerning to me. Just thought I might let people know to check.

I used some vibra-tite on the screws on my bolt.

 

[JM4590]

One day turnaround here as well. They got my action yesterday and I just got my notice that my action was on its way back.

Very pleased with this level of service.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This!

 

[Dooby]

So having my action in hand and running it with the Triggertech Special I have a little bump on close which appears to be coming from the cocking piece and I really have to pussyfoot it to even feel it. I’m seriously considering running it as is.

Any plans to send yours in or will you continue to run it?

Does the "little bump" you mention, feel more like a "click"? Prior to sending my action back to ARC, the bolt movement felt OK. A little rough, and before closing the bolt, i'd have to push it slightly forward and felt a "click", kinda like the sears going over each other and locking in to place.

after getting the action back, bolt movement is really really smooth, smoother than both my Nuclei. It's mated to a TT Diamond at factory 2lb setting.

 

[D2junky]

Not so much a click. Actually feels like my Nucleus before I put a couple hundred rounds through it. It’s more of a little extra pressure to overcome.

 

[chris514scott]

Not so much a click. Actually feels like my Nucleus before I put a couple hundred rounds through it. It’s more of a little extra pressure to overcome.

Isn't it the little spring detent being compressed?

 

[Dooby]

Isn't it the little spring detent being compressed?

I thought so too, but it looks like the bolt lever extends and is in-line with the detent spring. once the bolt is forward, there's some spring tension roughly ~1-2mm then i can close the bolt. I'm guessing it's the bolt sear and trigger sear making contact?

 

[D2junky]

I thought so too, but it looks like the bolt lever extends and is in-line with the detent spring. once the bolt is forward, there's some spring tension roughly ~1-2mm then i can close the bolt. I'm guessing it's the bolt sear and trigger sear making contact?

That would be my guess but I haven’t looked close enough for sure. Packed it up to go back and haven’t made it to the PO yet.

 

[ddavis]

If you very carefully watch the part on the back of the bolt with the screw when you push the bolt in that last bit, you'll probably be able to see it stick out *just* a bit more for that final amount of travel. It's being cocked the last bit. It's measurable with calipers. From what I learned in the other thread I started, you measure that amount, say 0.010, then you take 0.010 off the cocking piece to in theory have zero cock on close.

 

[hereinaz]

If you very carefully watch the part on the back of the bolt with the screw when you push the bolt in that last bit, you'll probably be able to see it stick out *just* a bit more for that final amount of travel. It's being cocked the last bit. It's measurable with calipers. From what I learned in the other thread I started, you measure that amount, say 0.010, then you take 0.010 off the cocking piece to in theory have zero cock on close.

Yes, that is exactly where you can see cock on close (or the opposite if it timed to anything more than 100% cock on open).

 

[hereinaz]

Just got off the phone with Justin at ARC, asking about when the paid for Archimedes will ship. A few things of interest.

They are shipping with a different cocking piece, based upon feedback and the triggers they are getting back. Will still have others available.

They increased the distance available for mechanical extraction by changing a bushing inside the bolt body, so we'll have more extraction (if it was ever necessary).

Sounds like paid for Archimedes will be shipping after a couple of weeks. I understand parts were out for expedited heat treat and coatings.

 

[chris514scott]

Just got off the phone with Justin at ARC, asking about when the paid for Archimedes will ship. A few things of interest.

They are shipping with a different cocking piece, based upon feedback and the triggers they are getting back. Will still have others available.

They increased the distance available for mechanical extraction by changing a bushing inside the bolt body, so we'll have more extraction (if it was ever necessary).

Sounds like paid for Archimedes will be shipping after a couple of weeks. I understand parts were out for expedited heat treat and coatings.

Was that bushing put in the actions that were sent back to have the bolt turned down?

 

[hereinaz]

Was that bushing put in the actions that were sent back to have the bolt turned down?

I didn't ask that specific question, but I understood that this was universal for everything they were shipping going forward. And, I couldn't tell you when they started it, but they did it in direct response to feedback.

Give them a call, and post up the response. Good question. Justin picked up on one ring. Not bad for a Friday afternoon, lol.

 

[ddavis]

I called about the sear engagement, someone else can get this one, lol. Mine doesn't seem to have much primary extraction. I was able to find some once fired brass in my box 'o brass from a barrel that must have had a larger chamber to test mine. You can't just use the lever to extract the case like I thought you'd be able to. You have to slap the hell out of the bolt and the brass flies out with enough velocity to go into orbit. I thought with the lever you'd be able to apply steady force to the bolt handle and pretty much pop the case out. It really doesn't seem any different than a standard action that doesn't have enough primary extraction. Mine doesn't engage until most of the bolt handle travel is already gone.

-Dan

 

[chris514scott]

I called about the sear engagement, someone else can get this one, lol. Mine doesn't seem to have much primary extraction. I was able to find some once fired brass in my box 'o brass from a barrel that must have had a larger chamber to test mine. You can't just use the lever to extract the case like I thought you'd be able to. You have to slap the hell out of the bolt and the brass flies out with enough velocity to go into orbit. I thought with the lever you'd be able to apply steady force to the bolt handle and pretty much pop the case out. It really doesn't seem any different than a standard action that doesn't have enough primary extraction. Mine doesn't engage until most of the bolt handle travel is already gone.

-Dan

I called just now. No answer. I feel the same about the extraction.

 

[hereinaz]

I called just now. No answer. I feel the same about the extraction.

I don't think that starting the extraction earlier will help with the way it breaks loose. As long as it extracts, I'm OK with it, but I too had hoped that the lever would extract it easier. Sounds like the initial force required to extract a really stuck case is quite something. I rarely have a problem with stuck cases, just the way I stay at lower pressures. I've never had to beat open a bolt. Just, had to smack it open palmed a couple times with a Savage.

 

[Dooby]

@karagias What is the torque value for the Archimedes LA rail?

Is the bolt stop gonna fall out when i take the rail off the action?

Looks simple enough, but just don't wanna miss anything and have a "oh shit" moment...kinda like the AR15 detent springs

 

[hereinaz]

@karagias What is the torque value for the Archimedes LA rail?

Is the bolt stop gonna fall out when i take the rail off the action?

Looks simple enough, but just don't wanna miss anything and have a "oh shit" moment...kinda like the AR15 detent springs

I suggest you call, Ted doesn't come on much to answer questions.

 

[Jake the dog]

Look in the PX. Ruskin has an arch for sale and has the parts list posted. I belive it has all the torque values on it.

 

[chrismartin]

I suggest you call, Ted doesn't come on much to answer questions.

Yeah, or email. I had the same question about the Nucleus rail when I got it and had an answer same day (IIRC) via email.

 

[chrismartin]

Look in the PX. Ruskin has an arch for sale and has the parts list posted. I belive it has all the torgue values on it.

Rail screw torque is listed at 40 lbs-in. Same as the Nucleus btw.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...rt-action-right-hand-0-473-bolt-face.6962832/

 

[DanGTG]

I called just now. No answer. I feel the same about the extraction.

No worries, I've been told it's going to be addressed.

 

[Dooby]

No worries, I've been told it's going to be addressed.

So the fix for the extraction was an added bushing inside the bolt?

 

[DanGTG]

IIRC there will be a revised bolt handle and striker bushing.

 

[hereinaz]

So the fix for the extraction was an added bushing inside the bolt?

Was told they reduced the size of a bushing inside the bolt that bottomed out before the bolt handle travel ended.

 

[Dooby]

Was told they reduced the size of a bushing inside the bolt that bottomed out before the bolt handle travel ended.

Was this all done when we sent the Bolt/Action back for the fix? Or would we need to send back the bolt again at a later date?

 

[hereinaz]

Was this all done when we sent the Bolt/Action back for the fix? Or would we need to send back the bolt again at a later date?

I don't know the timeline on when they decided to swap the bushing to increase extraction, but when I posted it up, I understood that was what they were doing to all bolts. Not sure when it got on their radar to address vs. when they were returning bolts.

 

[317millhand]

this is why I'm hanging onto mine a few more weeks before sending it. maybe there will be an Archimedes 2.0 come out shortly after the current Archimedes is perfected and make parts for the first one obsolete!!

 

[craigos]

Spoke to ARC, he is holding onto my two bolt handles to til Tues next week to get all the fixes including the bushing.

 

[chris514scott]

Spoke to ARC, he is holding onto my two bolt handles to til Tues next week to get all the fixes including the bushing.

So sounds like those of us who already got out bolts back need the need bushing. Hopefully they can just send it out.

 

[Dooby]

I'd prefer just to get another return ship label and send it back again.

 

[D2junky]

Less disappointed in myself for not having sent mine back yet.

 

[DanGTG]

I got a shipping notification today so it won’t be long now.

 

[NWnewguy]

I got a shipping notification as well and an invoice showing that its coming with a new M3 bolt, bolt handle, striker bushing and cocking piece.

Appears that it will be fully upgraded and not require another trip back for any other tweaks.

 

[r3daction]

My action is shipping to LRI from ARC, where a barrel is waiting. Got the email Wed 16th #18!

 

[NWnewguy]

Just received my updated bolt in the mail today. I looked it over pretty decently without taking any actual measurements.

It looks like a totally new bolt to me. I had a few small scratches on the bolt handle where it had rubbed against the action (the thing from above where someone had a complete shit fit). That wasn't there anymore. The amount of extraction seemed to be noticeably increased to me and with a TT Diamond it's slick and smooth. Over all I'm thrilled with the customer service and can't think how it could have been handled better.

Now I just have to screw a barrel on it and give it a go.