American Rifle Company New Archimedes Action, New Xylo Chassis, and major Mausingfield revision

[kthomas]

@karagias Ted, I bought into the Barloc system believing it would be a solid quick-change barrel option. Do you have any remedies to those customers that were expecting an attachment point that wouldn't shift zero?

Here's a solution - buy a shouldered barrel and torque it up to 100 ft-lbs.

"Switch barrel systems" come with compromises. The big compromise is POI reliability for the sake of easy barrel swaps.

Lots of issues across the board with many switch barrel systems. Perhaps you need to evaluate what you value more - POI reliability or ease of barrel changes?

I know what I always pick, but I also think "switch barrel systems" are a gimmick.

 

[flyer]

The resolution to the Barloc issue is that some shouldered barrels were cut wrong.

Ted determined that you could get a zero shift on a properly installed Barloc if you whack it hard enough but you get a zero shift on a shouldered barrel if you whack it that hard too.

Ted never represented it as a quick change barrel system. It's a barrel thread tensioner that only requires an allen key.

Ted has not changed the design because it works as intended (and just as well as a shouldered barrel) when installed according to the directions.

 

[LRI]

Here's a solution - buy a shouldered barrel and torque it up to 100 ft-lbs.

"Switch barrel systems" come with compromises. The big compromise is POI reliability for the sake of easy barrel swaps.

Lots of issues across the board with many switch barrel systems. Perhaps you need to evaluate what you value more - POI reliability or ease of barrel changes?

I know what I always pick, but I also think "switch barrel systems" are a gimmick.

I said this half a decade ago and got chastised for it. Torches, pitch forks, and noose.

Welcome to the gallows brother.

 

[phlegethon]

I said this half a decade ago and got chastised for it. Torches, pitch forks, and noose.

Welcome to the gallows brother.

Let me ask a question, not to stir the pot, but just because I know very little about this and have some experts in this thread. Do the systems like the LMT MWS, AI, and MRAD also have this kind of problem? They advertise their quick change capability pretty heavily, but I know those systems are also designed for it from the ground up and not retrofitted.

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

Let me ask a question, not to stir the pot, but just because I know very little about this and have some experts in this thread. Do the systems like the LMT MWS, AI, and MRAD also have this kind of problem? They advertise their quick change capability pretty heavily, but I know those systems are also designed for it from the ground up and not retrofitted.

I can only speak about AI. I only had a problem when I was hand tightening barrels on then and then locking them down. One barrel came loose one time. Since then I have been putting them on and torquing them down with a wrench and never seen any POI issues.

I could probably do the same thing with a out of the box 700 though. All my barrels have wrench flats on them and shoulder just like a 700 barrel.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Here's a solution - buy a shouldered barrel and torque it up to 100 ft-lbs.

"Switch barrel systems" come with compromises. The big compromise is POI reliability for the sake of easy barrel swaps.

Lots of issues across the board with many switch barrel systems. Perhaps you need to evaluate what you value more - POI reliability or ease of barrel changes?

I know what I always pick, but I also think "switch barrel systems" are a gimmick.

Agreed. Never understood why anyone would expect a exact return to zero with quick barrel swaps.

My AI’s are typically within .2 mil of zero, but still need the zero tweaked. Sometimes it will return to zero, but not every time.

I’m fine with that as I like the convenience of swapping to different rounds an also cleaning barrels while not on the action. But I understand that it’s not a complete return to zero and it’s a give take relationship.

Anyone expecting anything more is going to be disappointed.

 

[leftyk82]

Anyone expecting anything more is going to be disappointed.

Indeed. Nomenclature and definitions are important but lost on so many.

The Barloc is, according to ARC's website, a 'quick-change barrel device'. The description goes on to say it 'enables one to remove and re-install a barrel using only a 5/32" hex key and a head space gauge'.

Does it accomplish these things? Yes

Does it come with guarantees? No

Are guarantees implied? Evidently

 

[sleeplz]

Here's a solution - buy a shouldered barrel and torque it up to 100 ft-lbs.

"Switch barrel systems" come with compromises. The big compromise is POI reliability for the sake of easy barrel swaps.

Lots of issues across the board with many switch barrel systems. Perhaps you need to evaluate what you value more - POI reliability or ease of barrel changes?

I know what I always pick, but I also think "switch barrel systems" are a gimmick.

I should have chosen better words. When I say poi shifts, it's because of the barrel getting smacked. I'm fine with poi shifting after changing a barrel, but the fact that poi shifts once a barrel is smacked seems to go against what is advertised for the barloc. When I was buying the barloc, the advertisement never stated poi shifting due to barrel smack nor could a new guy getting into the sport ever realize this.

 

[Ledzep]

Are you reading the replies directed towards you Sleeplz? If your POI is shifting because of the barrel being impacted, you're either smacking the shit out of your barrel, or your Barloc/barrel aren't set up tight, as many folks have already described to you.

It's hard to quantify an impact otherwise I would do a more scientific test, but everything I have done shows no POI shift unless you get really out of hand, shouldered barrel and barloc. That is entirely dependent on the Barloc being set up properly to provide the correct amount of preload. Likewise for a shouldered barrel to be torqued.

What I'm getting at is that the Barloc works. You have to get pretty extreme to knock POI around provided that your barrel is machined correctly and the barloc is installed correctly. So if you're having problems, either you're installing it incorrectly, or your barrel is machined incorrectly. If it's on the shallow side of chamber depth it can cause the Barloc to give insufficient clamping force at the proper headspace. Do you want to solve the problem or just whine to a manufacturer on a public forum and ignore free help? Plenty of folks willing to help a guy out if you'd take the time to describe what you have (Provide pics of how your barloc is set up, torque specs, barrel manufacturer, shouldered vs. jam nut, etc..) and what is happening.

 

[lash]

Are you reading the replies directed towards you Sleeplz? If your POI is shifting because of the barrel being impacted, you're either smacking the shit out of your barrel, or your Barloc/barrel aren't set up tight, as many folks have already described to you.

It's hard to quantify an impact otherwise I would do a more scientific test, but everything I have done shows no POI shift unless you get really out of hand, shouldered barrel and barloc. That is entirely dependent on the Barloc being set up properly to provide the correct amount of preload. Likewise for a shouldered barrel to be torqued.

What I'm getting at is that the Barloc works. You have to get pretty extreme to knock POI around provided that your barrel is machined correctly and the barloc is installed correctly. So if you're having problems, either you're installing it incorrectly, or your barrel is machined incorrectly. If it's on the shallow side of chamber depth it can cause the Barloc to give insufficient clamping force at the proper headspace. Do you want to solve the problem or just whine to a manufacturer on a public forum and ignore free help? Plenty of folks willing to help a guy out if you'd take the time to describe what you have (Provide pics of how your barloc is set up, torque specs, barrel manufacturer, shouldered vs. jam nut, etc..) and what is happening.

Here, read in This thread what he said was really happening:

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...n-company-arcs-new-rifle.6982232/post-8247780

Post #39

sleeplz
41 minutes ago
I don't whack my barrel but I've noticed when I transport my rifle to ranges, my first shot would be off at 100 while the rest of the groups would be touching. I always attested it to me being the cold shooter. I actually bought the nucleus because of the Barloc but I wasn't informed that poi shifts were ok by Ted. I feel cheated, lesson learned.

 

[Winny94]

Let me ask a question, not to stir the pot, but just because I know very little about this and have some experts in this thread. Do the systems like the LMT MWS, AI, and MRAD also have this kind of problem? They advertise their quick change capability pretty heavily, but I know those systems are also designed for it from the ground up and not retrofitted.

I owned a DT - Quick barrel changes (ie.field changes ), just don't make sense for 99% of shooters. Rarely was the poi shift completely repeatable - close, but I'd never take a 500+ yd shot on game w/o confirming. Most fall in love with the novelty, but I've yet to meet any casaul shooter that utilizes it.

 

[flyer]

Ted never represented it as a quick change barrel system. It's a barrel thread tensioner that only requires an allen key.

Ted has not changed the design because it works as intended (and just as well as a shouldered barrel) when installed according to the directions.

I stand corrected on the "quick change" description, I was thinking of "switch barrel".

The Barloc is indeed much quicker to change barrels than barrel nut or shouldered barrels torqued to the same level because you don't need an action wrench or barrel vise. I don't think it is fast enough to call it quick because you should check headspace and take your time.

Ted never claimed return to zero when swapping barrels which is the usual measure of a "switch barrel".

A cold bore shot shooting to a different POI is not the same as a POI shift.

No one will guarantee that cold bore shots will shoot to the same POI as a warmed up gun, shouldered or not.

 

[Tokay444]

Any barrel connection you side load with enough force will have a POI shift.

 

[sleeplz]

Are you reading the replies directed towards you Sleeplz? If your POI is shifting because of the barrel being impacted, you're either smacking the shit out of your barrel, or your Barloc/barrel aren't set up tight, as many folks have already described to you.

It's hard to quantify an impact otherwise I would do a more scientific test, but everything I have done shows no POI shift unless you get really out of hand, shouldered barrel and barloc. That is entirely dependent on the Barloc being set up properly to provide the correct amount of preload. Likewise for a shouldered barrel to be torqued.

What I'm getting at is that the Barloc works. You have to get pretty extreme to knock POI around provided that your barrel is machined correctly and the barloc is installed correctly. So if you're having problems, either you're installing it incorrectly, or your barrel is machined incorrectly. If it's on the shallow side of chamber depth it can cause the Barloc to give insufficient clamping force at the proper headspace. Do you want to solve the problem or just whine to a manufacturer on a public forum and ignore free help? Plenty of folks willing to help a guy out if you'd take the time to describe what you have (Provide pics of how your barloc is set up, torque specs, barrel manufacturer, shouldered vs. jam nut, etc..) and what is happening.

I utilize a non-shouldered barrel and barloc, I utilize the method in the video below. I actually feel like I go much farther when it comes to torquing things down. I noticed when moving my gun around to the range my 1st shot would be off. After reading some threads and getting info on Barloc I can whack my barrel on a gun bench and watch the zero shift. My second shot will go back to zero. After my move, I'll try to take pics and video so you can see how hard the thwack is. Barrel is x caliber in 6.5 and non-shouldered.

 

[gnochi]

I utilize a non-shouldered barrel and barloc, I utilize the method in the video below. I actually feel like I go much farther when it comes to torquing things down. I noticed when moving my gun around to the range my 1st shot would be off. After reading some threads and getting info on Barloc I can whack my barrel on a gun bench and watch the zero shift. My second shot will go back to zero. After my move, I'll try to take pics and video so you can see how hard the thwack is. Barrel is x caliber in 6.5 and non-shouldered.

See, I also followed the instructions with a non-shouldered barrel, with the addition of lubricating the slip surfaces, and I held zero when I knocked my rifle off a bench and it landed on the muzzle.

Are you positive the wrench could fit between the clamps before you torqued the bolt? Barring that, surface lubrication won’t hurt.

 

[flyer]

I do things a bit different.

I remove the tensioner screw from the collar and install it from the other side. Then I use a dime or a feeler gauge in the gap so I can use the screw to spread the clamp (to the Barloc wrench thickness as in the instructions).

That will let you hand tighten the barrel nut and position everything. Then take out the screw and dime or feeler gauge and put the screw back in on the other side and tighten it as much as you can with the included allen key.

It's much less hassle doing it that way.

 

[Northernjets]

I'll do it like gnochi above but also light tap around the collar and recheck the torque to make sure it's settled into its happy spot, like we do with the V-band clamps used in aviation. Beat it around the bush, and in and out of vehicles during hunting season with no issues.

 

[Steel head]

I'll do it like gnochi above but also light tap around the collar and recheck the torque to make sure it's settled into its happy spot, like we do with the V-band clamps used in aviation. Beat it around the bush, and in and out of vehicles during hunting season with no issues.

Similar to assembly of victaulic pipe ends.

 

[chrismartin]

I'll do it like gnochi above but also light tap around the collar and recheck the torque to make sure it's settled into its happy spot, like we do with the V-band clamps used in aviation. Beat it around the bush, and in and out of vehicles during hunting season with no issues.

Same here.

 

[Tokay444]

I do things a bit different.

I remove the tensioner screw from the collar and install it from the other side. Then I use a dime or a feeler gauge in the gap so I can use the screw to spread the clamp (to the Barloc wrench thickness as in the instructions).

That will let you hand tighten the barrel nut and position everything. Then take out the screw and dime or feeler gauge and put the screw back in on the other side and tighten it as much as you can with the included allen key.

It's much less hassle doing it that way.

So, you do it differently, and have different results. Hmmm.
I think I see the “problem”.

 

[Sincerd]

I want one

 

[flyer]

So, you do it differently, and have different results. Hmmm.
I think I see the “problem”.

I do the same thing, spreading the clamp before tightening it, I just do it in a way that doesn't spin stuff around before you tighten it.

 

[Kimber.204]

stole these from the Shot Show 2020 Thread...https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/shot-show-2020-thread.6982124/page-4

Hopefully @karagias is just going to ship one of those to me instead of carting it home from SHOT!! These look great Ted. I can't wait to start dry-firing in the basement with it. I've got a long way to go to get my High Master card in NRA Highpower....a more easily adjusted stock will help.

 

[CMP70306]

Hold up, are those rings on that Mausingfield titanium or aluminum?

 

[Steel head]

Hold up, are those rings on that Mausingfield titanium or aluminum?

Those are his ti rings.

 

[Midpack]

Hold up, are those rings on that Mausingfield titanium or aluminum?

They certainly look like the titanium ones he was talking about making for the mausingfield

 

[CMP70306]

Yeah but he has been making the Ti ones since he made the original hunter Mausingfield for Griffin & Howe so I would have thought that he would have had a black coated pair for the show. Since they were in the white I didn’t know if he made an aluminum set quick to bring with him.

 

[SOAPdata]

I notice the price has jumped to $1300 for the Xylo.


I will still probably order one,

 

[craigos]

thanks for sharing the pics, without the 6.5 guys we likely wont get a youtube video with ted

 

[flyer]

I notice the price has jumped to $1300 for the Xylo.


I will still probably order one,

I'm glad I'm sitting on a pre-order.

 

[Steel head]

I'm glad I'm sitting on a pre-order.

I wish I was.
I need to convince Ted he wants to learn how to fly fish so we can do trades.

 

[chrome]

Over/under our pre orders arrive in Feb?

 

[phlegethon]

Over/under our pre orders arrive in Feb?

I'll be happy with April.

 

[Winny94]

I'll be happy with April.

The first round is coming sooner

 

[flyer]

Over/under our pre orders arrive in Feb?

Last I heard, take the over.

It looks like Ted has been doing lots of design tweaking. I'm sure the final product will be worth the wait.

 

[m6z]

Any more details on the complete ARC rifles? Is 300 PRC going to be an option?

 

[SOAPdata]

Over/under our pre orders arrive in Feb?

Over


I like my ARC stuff, but they have a terrible track record of on time deliver.

 

[Boatninja]

Mine gets beat up pretty regularly and I haven't had any problems. I don't and never did expect it to be spot on after a barrel swap. regardless the POI change after swapping has never been far off.

 

[SOAPdata]

I really want to do my ARC archamedies LA in a Xylo. But I need to gun for a May 1 shoot.

Dont know if I should gamble or not

 

[Steel head]

regardless the POI change after swapping has never been far off.

I’ve swapped a few times and was kinda surprised at how close it was.

 

[phlegethon]

I really want to do my ARC archamedies LA in a Xylo. But I need to gun for a May 1 shoot.

Dont know if I should gamble or not

Get a Bravo and resell it when you’re done.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

I really want to do my ARC archamedies LA in a Xylo. But I need to gun for a May 1 shoot.

Dont know if I should gamble or not

Did you pre-order? If not, doubt you'll make the May 1st deadline.

 

[littlepod]

I just started Googling Xylo chassis, can someone give me a breakdown on how delayed this chassis is? They announced it early 2019? Is this the v2 of the chassis, or the same pre-order that's been going on for over a year?

Originally pre-order price was $799, now it looks like the retail price is $1300. I'm in the market to pick up a new R700 chassis and action (most likely a new V22, or Deuce/Deadline)... but no idea what the status of this Chassis is.

Thanks!

 

[b6graham]

I just started Googling Xylo chassis, can someone give me a breakdown on how delayed this chassis is? They announced it early 2019? Is this the v2 of the chassis, or the same pre-order that's been going on for over a year?

Originally pre-order price was $799, now it looks like the retail price is $1300. I'm in the market to pick up a new R700 chassis and action (most likely a new V22, or Deuce/Deadline)... but no idea what the status of this Chassis is.

Thanks!

announced. proto/renderings shown.

this is the actual version after much refinement.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I was very surprised with the xylo. It’s a very nice and probably about the most functional buttstock on the market.

 

[SOAPdata]

Did you pre-order? If not, doubt you'll make the May 1st deadline.

Nope. I didnt pre order. I did pre order the archamedies. But the Xylo at the time didnt strike me as what I wanted.

Now that it is improved it does.

 

[flyer]

Yes, this is still the initial release Xylo we are waiting on.

The reason why (in my opinion) is that Ted's Mausingfield revision was not well accepted so he went back to the drawing board on that and changed a lot of the Archimedes too. With that going on and bolt/trigger/scope rail issues with the Archimedes release, the Xylo was on the back burner.

I was worried that it was going to ship right before Christmas when my credit card was hurting a bit so the delay has been ok for me.

I think ARC is going to have a pretty full product portfolio after the Xylo is in production and delivering. I've heard some talk of a .338 Lapua Magnum size Archimedes. It sounds like a great idea to me but could be a rumor. If they add that and tweak some of their offerings a bit, I think every shooter could have at least one ARC action appropriate for the type of rifles they like.

After that, I think we will see a lot less delay in ARC product releases instead of last year when they had a Shot show version of the Mausingfield, the Shot show version of Archimedes, the Xylo, the release 2019 Mausingfield, the release Archimedes, the Nucleus 1.1 and the Nucleus 2.0 (which all bumped the Xylo in to 2020). Last year was just too much for a small company.

 

[Steel head]

Yes, this is still the initial release Xylo we are waiting on.

The reason why (in my opinion) is that Ted's Mausingfield revision was not well accepted so he went back to the drawing board on that and changed a lot of the Archimedes too. With that going on and bolt/trigger/scope rail issues with the Archimedes release, the Xylo was on the back burner.

I was worried that it was going to ship right before Christmas when my credit card was hurting a bit so the delay has been ok for me.

I think ARC is going to have a pretty full product portfolio after the Xylo is in production and delivering. I've heard some talk of a .338 Lapua Magnum size Archimedes. It sounds like a great idea to me but could be a rumor. If they add that and tweak some of their offerings a bit, I think every shooter could have at least one ARC action appropriate for the type of rifles they like.

After that, I think we will see a lot less delay in ARC product releases instead of last year when they had a Shot show version of the Mausingfield, the Shot show version of Archimedes, the Xylo, the release 2019 Mausingfield, the release Archimedes, the Nucleus 1.1 and the Nucleus 2.0 (which all bumped the Xylo in to 2020). Last year was just too much for a small company.

I’ve heard talk of the .585 bolt face Archimedes as well.
I want one.

 

[chrismartin]

 

[kthomas]

Thanks for sharing! Always enjoy Ted's videos, he's pretty unrefined and unpolished, but you get glimpses into his creative genius, which as a fellow engineer I always appreciate.

The video showed off some features that previously I was unaware of, it's obviously a very well thought out chassis.

I love the bump in the mag release/catch lever, that's an ingenious and simple way to prevent the mag from rotating and thus binding. The level idea is cool, until the video I didn't realize that it "popped through", I figured it was a QD attachment. The quick adjust on the LOP and cheek piece seem very well thought out as well. That ARCA/RRS with built in Anschutz and Area419 (whatever their holes/patterns called) it awesome. I also love the trigger guard is slotted so that you can access any trigger adjustment set screws. There's a lot of small details going into this chassis that just goes to show how well thought out it is.

I like that the grip is open sourced, my idea of getting a micarta handle in a wacky color (and maybe matching cheek piece) can come to life .

Overall, seems like a very functional, well thought out and built chassis. My hats off to you Ted!

I know some people like medium Palma type contours, but hopefully there's heavier contours available for those that prefer a heavier barrel (my preference is generally in the m24/MTU/heavy varmint contours, though a heavy Palma would be okay as well).