This was a discussion at our last match. Apparently there was some discussions on social media that I cannot seem to find. It was said at our match the nrl22 rules no amp plates. Now I haven't seen anything official but with a few plate makers as NRL22 sponsors, I am having some doubt. Anyone know of anything official?
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Amp plates 'legal' in NRL22?
- Thread starter 10ring1
- Start date
The official answer would be to ask your local match director as to what is allowed. If you are concerned about what is allowed for the Nationals, then have the match director inquire for you.
From: https://nrl22.org/about/rules/
From: https://nrl22.org/about/rules/
Gray Ops CNC AMP ELITE "Arca Multi-Plate"
Precision Gear for Precision Rifle Shooting
swannyscompgear.com
As a match director, here’s my local interpretation. I don’t care what you use if it’s not dis-allowed in the stage description, as long as you are in unlimited/open class. I believe that base class was and is intended to attract people to the sport, especially young people. As such, base class is a limitation to reduce the need for an arms race. In unlimited/open, go for it.
This is reflected in the mission statement of nrl22.
“The monthly course of fire, ....are all intended to be turnkey solutions to simple, fun and affordable Precision Rifle matches.”
Plus, Section 5.B. Classes, “The Base class is intended to be budget oriented. It is also intended to be a class to allow an introduction to this fantastic shooting discipline. It is not intended to be a place for veteran shooters to remain,...”
To me, this means that if you are talking about Arca rails and AMP plates, etc. then it’s time to bite the bullet and get in open class where you belong.
This is reflected in the mission statement of nrl22.
“The monthly course of fire, ....are all intended to be turnkey solutions to simple, fun and affordable Precision Rifle matches.”
Plus, Section 5.B. Classes, “The Base class is intended to be budget oriented. It is also intended to be a class to allow an introduction to this fantastic shooting discipline. It is not intended to be a place for veteran shooters to remain,...”
To me, this means that if you are talking about Arca rails and AMP plates, etc. then it’s time to bite the bullet and get in open class where you belong.
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Gray Ops CNC AMP ELITE "Arca Multi-Plate"
Precision Gear for Precision Rifle Shooting
I'd be the only redneck there with a piece of plywood "amp" plate.
You say that but I have a piece of plastic I was thinking about marketing one of those and an ARCA rail out of. Hey, I will at least paint it black so it is tacticool plastic ?
I’m just a cheap ass and make everything I can. Good polycarbonate works almost as well an aluminum and is easy to shape with very basic tools.
Plates are 100% not allowed in NRL22
If your local MD wants to allow you to use them then shame on them for not following the rules. Plus if you plan to shoot nationals you won't be allowed to use it so your only screwing yourself not getting practice not using it.
If your local MD wants to allow you to use them then shame on them for not following the rules. Plus if you plan to shoot nationals you won't be allowed to use it so your only screwing yourself not getting practice not using it.
I don’t see where that is in the rules. If you would be so kind as to point out what I missed, I would appreciate that. I am just a stupid SE guy and have not been in on the birth and development of NRL. If there are known rules that are not published to even the remote areas, then how can they be known?
I don't have a dog in this fight but in Lash's defense, how would he know this "rule" if it was only discussed in a text message? I would have expected to see an official document stating the rules.
Okay, these posts do not count as official rules and for you to admonish MDs for breaking “rules” that only exist on a chat board is ridiculous. If I want rules, I go to the official rules published on the NRL22 website and read the 2019-2020 Rules and Regulations. If the governing body wants to amend those rules, then that needs to go in the same place. Not in a copy of a text in a post on a forum.
I gotta laugh at the backlash about "gear race" in regards to plates. It's a very cheap piece of gear that greatly enhances ANY shooters (read kids, women, adaptive, pro) experience. I've seen guys make them out of a $17 tripod mount and a piece of wood flooring. Don't worry though, it was wrapped in black gaff tape to make it tactical. If you choose to buy the Cadillac, that's your call.
Benchresters have been using wide bottom fore-ends for decades. This is not a new concept.
A plate does not automatically steer your bullet into the center of the steel or X-ring. It only increases surface area for more contact with your bag. You still have to build a good position and drive the gun to an impact. It DOES keep your gun steady while cycling the bolt, which will put time back on clock and make for more shots on that stage. More shots=more fun.
I personally believe they enhance safety. Who knows? Maybe one day they will be required!
Benchresters have been using wide bottom fore-ends for decades. This is not a new concept.
A plate does not automatically steer your bullet into the center of the steel or X-ring. It only increases surface area for more contact with your bag. You still have to build a good position and drive the gun to an impact. It DOES keep your gun steady while cycling the bolt, which will put time back on clock and make for more shots on that stage. More shots=more fun.
I personally believe they enhance safety. Who knows? Maybe one day they will be required!
First off those are not text messages those are from the NRL22 Advisors/MD room where rules and COF are talked about and fixed. So you local MD should be involved and keeping up with the latest information going on within the organization.
Also if you watch the September and Oct Live shows the NRL22 director specifically also states that the plates are not legal for NRL22 matches.
You asked the question I gave you the answer. Complain and stomp your feet all you want but those are the rules.
Also if you watch the September and Oct Live shows the NRL22 director specifically also states that the plates are not legal for NRL22 matches.
You asked the question I gave you the answer. Complain and stomp your feet all you want but those are the rules.
So essentially nrl22 is Shooting themselves in the foot. Why would you completely disallow a product from a sponsor? That may get ugly. I look for them to create a new class , basically unlimited, so you can use new and innovative products...which is the essence of shooting sports evolution.
Your thoughts are valid and all that has been discussed.
The final ruling was as I posted in the pictures from the NRL22 director. The sport was designed to be Inclusive!! Not exclusive.
Maybe next year the rule will change but for this year its not allowed.
FYI I am for it as I run a 419 rail changer X for my big guns. I agree with the use ect. All I am saying is they are not allowed.
The final ruling was as I posted in the pictures from the NRL22 director. The sport was designed to be Inclusive!! Not exclusive.
Maybe next year the rule will change but for this year its not allowed.
FYI I am for it as I run a 419 rail changer X for my big guns. I agree with the use ect. All I am saying is they are not allowed.
I am neither complaining nor stomping my feet. I could personally give a crap what is decided upon and am simply stating that rules must be properly published and distributed if they are to apply to everyone. Otherwise, according to the actual published rules, the local MD makes the decision.
Are all of your MDs, including those highly touted overseas and other far removed states involved and part of these conversations? If everyone is not involved nor otherwise required to be involved in these “conversations” where there are “rules” being discussed and decided upon on the fly during a season, then you are not handling this correctly.
Nowhere did I see a requirement to be involved in these chats, so if you want official rules to stick, there needs to be a running rules addendum on your rules page. Otherwise, it just becomes another good old boys club where some guys are in the know and the fringe people just hang around waiting for tidbits of information.
That’s the key right there.
Wow! When you don’t get it, you really don’t get it.
You are the one that jumped on me for actually following the rules. I merely am trying to point out that if they are not published, then they aren’t actually “rules” no matter how many people agree they should or shouldn’t be.
Explain to me how anyone can be expected to follow rules that don’t exist except in some chat room.
You wish to paint me as a complainer and whiner, while I’m just trying to save a bunch of people some heartache by pointing out the issue at hand so that it can be addressed now and not during the heat of a competition. Not once did I call you a hard ass or point out your lack of reading comprehension.
You are the one that jumped on me for actually following the rules. I merely am trying to point out that if they are not published, then they aren’t actually “rules” no matter how many people agree they should or shouldn’t be.
Explain to me how anyone can be expected to follow rules that don’t exist except in some chat room.
You wish to paint me as a complainer and whiner, while I’m just trying to save a bunch of people some heartache by pointing out the issue at hand so that it can be addressed now and not during the heat of a competition. Not once did I call you a hard ass or point out your lack of reading comprehension.
Again, from a professional standpoint lash nailed it. Everything he said was spot on.
Rules should be made official in a central location where even I, if I wanted could go check them out to prepare for a match. Honestly, I shouldn't have to ask anyone or do anything else but go to the official rule book and read what is there. Revisions and addendums do occur, those should be listed also and should not be valid until posted on the official, centralized website for all to view. I used to be a plant manager at a shot peening operation and I dealt with aerospace, power generation and automotive specs all the time. Those specific specs called out on the drawing was the shot peening bible for that part. The rules page/book should be the same for NRL22.
I'm not sure how professional or organized the NRL22 league is but IMO ALL MD's should be listed with a minimum of a name, event location and email address on the official NRL22 website. When an addendum is written it should be submitted via email to all those MD's on the list. Until that happens it's not a rule. I'm only trying to help and give insight from an outsiders point of view.
If anyone wants me to shut up just say so; truste me, it won't hurt my feelings.
Rules should be made official in a central location where even I, if I wanted could go check them out to prepare for a match. Honestly, I shouldn't have to ask anyone or do anything else but go to the official rule book and read what is there. Revisions and addendums do occur, those should be listed also and should not be valid until posted on the official, centralized website for all to view. I used to be a plant manager at a shot peening operation and I dealt with aerospace, power generation and automotive specs all the time. Those specific specs called out on the drawing was the shot peening bible for that part. The rules page/book should be the same for NRL22.
I'm not sure how professional or organized the NRL22 league is but IMO ALL MD's should be listed with a minimum of a name, event location and email address on the official NRL22 website. When an addendum is written it should be submitted via email to all those MD's on the list. Until that happens it's not a rule. I'm only trying to help and give insight from an outsiders point of view.
If anyone wants me to shut up just say so; truste me, it won't hurt my feelings.
You and Lash nailed it, if it is not published and accessible it is not an official rule. If they want to run a formal organization and run matches everything needs to be accessible and open to the public. Unpublished and hidden rules make it an exclusive insiders club, not the inclusive organization they are professing to be.
I'm glad this thread came up, it made me make a decision. I was talking to a couple friends about setting up a NRL22 shoot for the Colorado front range as there isn't one there now and I need a monthly 22 match since steel dogs died out last year. Initial talks with the club BOD were actually really well received and actually encouraged. Biggest drawbacks were the paper stage slowing things down for scoring, a 100 yard limit as we are used to 35-200 yard spread and having to categorize/inspect a competitors equipment for base class.
Now I see that official rules are not really posted at an official location and that I have to follow some chat or facebook blog for updates. Sorry that is just not going to happen, you make it too difficult to be a MD and I'll pass. I'm going back to the idea of resurrecting steel dogs instead of starting a NRL22 match as I don't have to play equipment cop and all targets are steel with no paper scoring.
Now I see that official rules are not really posted at an official location and that I have to follow some chat or facebook blog for updates. Sorry that is just not going to happen, you make it too difficult to be a MD and I'll pass. I'm going back to the idea of resurrecting steel dogs instead of starting a NRL22 match as I don't have to play equipment cop and all targets are steel with no paper scoring.
I'm in for about any .22lr match you decide to put on. There are several NRL matches on the Front Range though. Not close to Denver though. One in Byers and one in LaPorte. The LaPorte is this Saturday if you're interested. It's a solid 1:15 drive for me from N. Metro. There are several other .22lr PRS matches as well but not NRL. I prefer the non NRL matches due to distance maximums for NRL22. I do believe most NRL22 matches add on some longer range stuff that counts for the local match but not towards the overall NRL22 nationwide qualifying scores.
Then why even have an open class? Just force everybody to run 10/22's and be done with it?
Meh, it’s an average of $20 entry fee and the monthly match results only matter for drawings.
Small potatoes and spilled milk. If the local MD decides to allow them (obviously without consent from NRL), everyone at the match was allowed the same rules, and in the end, it doesn’t matter.
As far as it hindering or not at nationals, the monthly matches are damn near *nothing* like the national match. Distances out to or past 200 change things completely for most people. So, that’s a wash IMO. You shouldn’t be using the monthly matches as preparation for nationals anyway.
However, obviously Nomad is correct and the official stance is they aren’t allowed. So, proceed with that in mind.
I hadn’t heard that arca rails aren’t allowed on base class rifles. That’ll probably stir up some shit too.
Again though, monthly matches are peanuts. Too many people caught up in the weeds for this type of match.
Small potatoes and spilled milk. If the local MD decides to allow them (obviously without consent from NRL), everyone at the match was allowed the same rules, and in the end, it doesn’t matter.
As far as it hindering or not at nationals, the monthly matches are damn near *nothing* like the national match. Distances out to or past 200 change things completely for most people. So, that’s a wash IMO. You shouldn’t be using the monthly matches as preparation for nationals anyway.
However, obviously Nomad is correct and the official stance is they aren’t allowed. So, proceed with that in mind.
I hadn’t heard that arca rails aren’t allowed on base class rifles. That’ll probably stir up some shit too.
Again though, monthly matches are peanuts. Too many people caught up in the weeds for this type of match.
Also, NRL22 needs to decide if they want to give the MD’s broad discretion or not.
One minute their answer for almost everything is “it’s up to your MD.”
Now on certain things they are basically retconning the rules on FB.
You gotta pick a strategy. Let the MD decide, or write a novel of rules. Otherwise, it’s just chaos and confusing.
One minute their answer for almost everything is “it’s up to your MD.”
Now on certain things they are basically retconning the rules on FB.
You gotta pick a strategy. Let the MD decide, or write a novel of rules. Otherwise, it’s just chaos and confusing.
Just to be clear, NRL22 does have rules and regulations posted on their website for all to see. https://nrl22.org/about/rules/
My discussion revolves around any changes/amendments to those rules and how they should also be communicated in the same place for everyone to see. I understand that a young and growing organization will have growing pains and will have to understand and adapt as they grow. I do think the organization intends well and wants to do right as per their mission statement. Rather than being seen as a complaint or whine, I’d like to see this discussion being taken as constructive and actions taken accordingly.
Our club also goes past 100 and we run a number of stages past 100. NRL22 only restricts their 5 monthly stages to inside of that so that areas without more distance can also participate. Any local stages past that distance are fine and encouraged, just don’t count in NRL22 scoring.
As to paper targets and their scoring, we set up two 4’x8’ backer panels and staple all targets on these boards. We shoot these as a group or squads all at once and only score them all once all targets are shot. It’s quicker than you think if done this way. Quicker even than steel stages.
Except that nrl22 has literally officially said on FB the plates are not legal. It is not up to the MD.
That’s the problem. Rules say one thing and the organization says another.
And it’s not like there is some court to make a ruling. If for example a shooter wins a prize and a picture of them is out there running a plate, the nrl22 could easily disqualify them and there’s nothing anyone can do.
I agree with you. But it’s causing confusion when they say MD discretion then publicly post that something isn’t allowed.
This. I saw this conversation on another shooter's phone. If it wasn't for that I would have no idea. I went home and searched for the conversation but couldn't find it. Spoke with our MD who was aware of the convo and said it was on an exclusive type members page. I took that as it was not available to the average Joe like me. But don't hold me to it . I looked on Facebook and all the nrl22 pages o could think of. Couldn't find it
It's times like these that I'm glad I compete against myself.
I only have one rule. Don't lock myself out of the house.
Which I have done before.
The last time , I was attacked by my dog who thought I was a burglar coming through the window.
Until I started yelling. That's when she looked at me all dumbfounded , like , what are you doing here?
I only have one rule. Don't lock myself out of the house.
Which I have done before.
The last time , I was attacked by my dog who thought I was a burglar coming through the window.
Until I started yelling. That's when she looked at me all dumbfounded , like , what are you doing here?
Oh yeah and I swear I saw pics from the finals last year and saw someone using a pump pillow (which is not stated in the rules). It's a free for all!
Found it! Video on Instagram. Thought it was always '1 bag' ?
Found it! Video on Instagram. Thought it was always '1 bag' ?
You and me both. We always come in 1st place LOL.
National Championship is a completely separate animal from the monthly match. It is run almost exactly like a 2day NRL match.
Some stages said only one bag and others allowed most any gear.
Guess I’m “blue collar” then since mine is made from aluminum diamond plate.
I will have to say I am disappointed with the NRL not having the nationals follow the same rule set as the regionals. Probably one of the main reasons we did not go last year.
Do you mean to say the local matches? There wasn't any official regional matches for the NRL22 last year. The local club did put on an unoffical regional match last year which had a pretty decent turnout and was rather challenging at times. The 2020 NRL22 Nationals are scheduled to be held here and the match director Mike Millikan (who's been putting together half the monthly courses of fire for NRL22) will be designing every stage. He'll make it where everyone can participate no matter what level of expertise. I'm am sure he will throw in a few that will be very tough too.
Actually, this highlights something interesting... I think lash is spot on. If you're going to run a top shelf organization, the rules need to be clearly laid out and understood by everyone involved. If I hadn't run across this thread, I wouldn't have any way to know that NRL has disallowed equipment like AMP plates from NRL22 competition. It's mentioned nowhere in the rules.
To be successful long term, you really need to keep the rules on the site up to date - for multiple reasons, but specifically so that you can insure that everyone has the same exposure and understanding of the rules. Otherwise, you end up with a lot of hearsay, and you make the organization look completely unprofessional from the outside perspective.
To be successful long term, you really need to keep the rules on the site up to date - for multiple reasons, but specifically so that you can insure that everyone has the same exposure and understanding of the rules. Otherwise, you end up with a lot of hearsay, and you make the organization look completely unprofessional from the outside perspective.
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