Amp plates 'legal' in NRL22?

[reynja]

The final ruling was as I posted in the pictures from the NRL22 director. The sport was designed to be Inclusive!! Not exclusive.

The following is not directed at you personally but:

Seriously? This is laughable at best. The base class is inclusive already. The open class is what? Open, with a caveat?

So I can run my Vudoo rifle in a MPA chassis and Nightforce 7-35 optic and be 100% good to go, but the second I put on a home-made plate I am excluding someone? Who? How? Please explain this.

I have seen multiple plate owners share them amongst squad, and people in other squads, multiple times. Is that not being inclusive?

Sorry, but that decision is 100% ridiculous!

Meanwhile, I see people at NRL22 matches doing all kinds of questionable stuff on stages (see photos on facebook - its easy) like supporting the butt of the gun on the bucket while using a bipod with huge legs when everyone knows the idea is to support the rifle solely on the bucket and so on, but don't you dare use that plate on your multi-thousand dollar open class gun!!!

 

[10ring1]

Actually, this highlights something interesting... I think lash is spot on. If you're going to run a top shelf organization, the rules need to be clearly laid out and understood by everyone involved. If I hadn't run across this thread, I wouldn't have any way to know that NRL has disallowed equipment like AMP plates from NRL22 competition. It's mentioned nowhere in the rules.

To be successful long term, you really need to keep the rules on the site up to date - for multiple reasons, but specifically so that you can insure that everyone has the same exposure and understanding of the rules. Otherwise, you end up with a lot of hearsay, and you make the organization look completely unprofessional from the outside perspective.

Exactly!

 

[10xk9]

As a match director for our local club I stick to the rules that I know will be used at Nationals . Last year it was announced a couple weeks before nationals that Arca plates were not allowed. So I have been sticking to that policy for this season . I specifically asked about using plates in the official NRL22 advisors section and it was once again confirmed that plates are not allowed. It would be unfair to my shooters to allow them to use a plate in our local matches all season , knowing that they couldn’t use the plate at the nationals.
I just hosted a regional match two weeks ago and I did not allow plates at the regional match.
I understand that maybe some MD’s haven’t gotten the word about not allowing plates. But I know that some MD’s have gotten the word and still choose to allow plates . At the end of the day I follow the guidelines of the national match director and I feel that by doing that I can’t go wrong.
NRL22 organization is very new and for that matter , so are Arca plates. I try to keep this in mind when it comes to ironing out all the details with the rules. I’m sure the new season will come with new rules . That’s how the sport keeps growing and evolving.

 

[Rover31]

Lot of complaining going on for an organization that many of you are participating in.
I have had immediate response every time I have had a rule question from the NRL, every time! Have a question ask! The rules are clear, especially this year. Questions come from people trying to bend them.
How do they keep the rules up to date when every 10 seconds someone is trying to figure out a product or way to beat the system? They do the best they can and I think they are doing a great job.
Maybe put a little pressure on the folks who are always breaking the rules Not the game provider! Remember this is a game and work on your fundamentals!

 

[davere]

I understand that maybe some MD’s haven’t gotten the word about not allowing plates. But I know that some MD’s have gotten the word and still choose to allow plates .

Realistically, as long as you prevent them for NRL scored stages, you could potentially allow them on the other stages in your match without issue - although I totally understand why you're limiting them across the board (to force your shooters to adapt to the rules they'll be expected to follow at a national level match).

It's not bueno that MDs aren't following the rules they've been handed - if you know for sure they're aware of the rule change. Obviously, though, how the heck would anyone know? This is the first mention I've seen of an "NRL22 Advisors section" - where does one find *that*?

On top of that, they may have a situation where they feel like they're driving shooters away by following that limitation.

NRL22 organization is very new and for that matter , so are Arca plates. I try to keep this in mind when it comes to ironing out all the details with the rules. I’m sure the new season will come with new rules . That’s how the sport keeps growing and evolving.

Sure - heck, precision rifle in general is still relatively new. But... there are plenty of ways to see how rules are handled by other sports - even other shooting sports - and have a model to follow to provide a rule set with easy mechanisms to update the rules and provide interim rule interpretations, etc.

For instance, it would be easy to have a provision in the rules that states that the rules are subject to interim updates by NRL22, and provide an official location for the interim updates (somewhere on the website would be most logical). Then, announce updates in a number of ways, but place them on the website in that spot so people can actually find it. There's no way to deny the rule change, and no excuse for not being aware of it, at that point.... It's honestly not that hard - they just need to establish the precedent and move forward with it.

 

[billmeek]

This is the first mention I've seen of an "NRL22 Advisors section" - where does one find *that*?

I would assume that it's a private area for the match and league directors to discuss topics (such as rules) without an overload of input (and arguments) from match participants.

 

[chopit]

Lot of complaining going on for an organization that many of you are participating in.
I have had immediate response every time I have had a rule question from the NRL, every time! Have a question ask! The rules are clear, especially this year. Questions come from people trying to bend them.
How do they keep the rules up to date when every 10 seconds someone is trying to figure out a product or way to beat the system? They do the best they can and I think they are doing a great job.
Maybe put a little pressure on the folks who are always breaking the rules Not the game provider! Remember this is a game and work on your fundamentals!

The rules are not clear because they are not posted as there are updates or clarification. If you take the time to have an offline discussion it would be silly to think you would take the time to post an update where EVERYONE could see it not just the cool kids. It has been 3 months since I sent them my 75 dollars and have received exactly 0. Our MD sent email asking how to send money for scores it took 3 weeks for someone to respond. How do you break rules that no one knows there is a rule that says you can't use or do whatever. It is obviously not clear or there wouldn't be any responses to this thread. I paid my money I can complain all I want. Don't want people to complain fix your shit. Exactly how long do growing pains last.

 

[Rover31]

So every time a manufacturer comes up with some item that is not “in the spirit of the rules” the organizer has to update them in your time frame? Really? Why? Just to please you? Doubt that is going to happen.
And the fact that you did not get your envelope of stickers, chamber flag and membership card in the time you demand your upset?

You guys do realize that they are taking your scores and maintaining them right? That’s what you paid for! I hope you don’t value those stickers at $75!

And growing pains... do you guys have any idea of how many emails and calls they are getting? Lots!!! this sport has exploded! Then to sit around and whine about such petty problems? come on guys relax stop make huge deals out of something that is not a huge deal OR go play somewhere else. Go make your own national league and deal with every wanna be 22lr sniper in the country.

 

[chopit]

You seem to be missing the point completely. If you discussed and determined it was not legal and you took the time to decide it you cant post the decision so people see it. They arent doing me any favors i paid them money to do that.

 

[Rover31]

No you seem to be missing the point
It’s not all about you!

 

[chopit]

Your right i am still waiting on my chamber flag and stickers.

 

[reynja]

No you seem to be missing the point
It’s not all about you!

You’re also missing, or more likely ignoring, the fact that paid members are providing feedback. Any organization should absolutely welcome any feedback it gets, especially negative feedback, if it wants to improve and grow.

Also in an earlier post you’ve basically said that if people don’t like it, they should go elsewhere. Do you speak for NRL22 here? Are you even a member, or are you just stirring the pot?

 

[Dthomas3523]

So every time a manufacturer comes up with some item that is not “in the spirit of the rules” the organizer has to update them in your time frame? Really? Why? Just to please you? Doubt that is going to happen.
And the fact that you did not get your envelope of stickers, chamber flag and membership card in the time you demand your upset?

You guys do realize that they are taking your scores and maintaining them right? That’s what you paid for! I hope you don’t value those stickers at $75!

And growing pains... do you guys have any idea of how many emails and calls they are getting? Lots!!! this sport has exploded! Then to sit around and whine about such petty problems? come on guys relax stop make huge deals out of something that is not a huge deal OR go play somewhere else. Go make your own national league and deal with every wanna be 22lr sniper in the country.

Its not too much to ask for them to publicly post something when it’s a fairly major piece of equipment.

A simple “after discussing it on the advisors page, we have decided gamer plates (or whatever) are not permitted.”

In the grand scheme of things, I couldn’t care less. The better shooters will still win.

But the logic behind it is simple. Major piece of gear allowed or disallowed during the season should get an official announcement or rule update.

Its not like the plates are super niche or not popular. They are literally showing up in large numbers at most any rifle match anywhere.

 

[davere]

So every time a manufacturer comes up with some item that is not “in the spirit of the rules” the organizer has to update them in your time frame? Really? Why? Just to please you? Doubt that is going to happen.

More like... to preserve the fairness, consistency and integrity of the game and rule set. Has nothing to do with pleasing anyone, because published rule changes will never make everyone happy.

And you could fix the "every time someone..." issue by simply writing what's ALLOWED in the rules. Here's how the rules describe Open class, in total: "4. Open class shooters have no restrictions on equipment." Now... I may not be that bright, but that seems to suggest that there aren't any equipment restrictions for open class. I might be wrong in my interpretation. English is only my first language. But, it seems to me, with my limited capacity for the English language, that if you wanted to make it such that you didn't have to redefine "NO RESTRICTIONS ON EQUIPMENT" to mean "you can only use these items, but not these others", you should make a list of what those ALLOWABLE items are for Open, with anything else being disallowed.

And you should publish that list openly where the general membership can read it.

You guys do realize that they are taking your scores and maintaining them right? That’s what you paid for! I hope you don’t value those stickers at $75!

And one would expect that those scores compare fairly and equally to EVERYONE ELSE that submits scores - which can only happen if everyone plays under the same set of rules - which is only possible if the same rules and rule updates are available to everyone playing the game.

And, BTW, I get the same score upkeep, comparison to other shooters, and, in addition, RULE UPDATES IN A CENTRAL PLACE from another notable shooting organization for half that money every year. The only difference is that the other org doesn't do monthly prize tables on the basis of a postal match. Don't act like NRL is accomplishing some huge feat or doing us all a huge favor for $75/year. They've developed quite a sport with a rapidly growing following (you're correct, here), but acting like they should be immune to feedback is silly, to say the least.

come on guys relax stop make huge deals out of something that is not a huge deal OR go play somewhere else.

Actually, rules consistency across a postal match might be the biggest deal they have at the national level. Rules consistency, period, is one of the biggest things hampering precision rifle in general, right now, in fact. They should welcome any chance to improve. And, frankly, asking for a mention of a new rule decision on the website in writing with the rules is fucking trivial, especially next to managing and producing monthly prize table drawings, big matches, etc. It takes all of 10 minutes, at most, to make such an update.

Thankfully, you don't speak for the NRL. Travis Ishida is well spoken, and seems like a kind guy, and it's largely his charisma that's established the sport as it is today. An attitude like yours would be the death knell for the sport.

 

[308pirate]

LOL at all these new rifle "sports" with their fucked up confusion, good ol boys club atmosphere, and one set of rules for thee and one set for me........

Zero interest in any of them until they unfuck themselves. USPSA knows how to run a sport.

 

[Rover31]

evrybody needs to back up a few steps and truly look at what you are complaining about.

Upset that you didn’t get a sticker membership chamber flag packet
Really?

Mad that Joe Sniper has a gamer plate and I don’t
Bummer!

PO’d that the NRL didn’t call me back
Try em again, they are human just like you!

Let’s go back to one of my questions to the “mad at the NRL crowd”

Do you really think that every time someone shows up gaming the system with some new gadget at some range in your corner of the world that everything needs to stop and that needs to be addressed?
The rules have been very clear and very consistent to me and many that I converse with. It has clearly stated
All MDs have the ability to allow or disallow whatever they want or don’t want. You want the jr shooters to have the ability to have fun and come back or the old guy or gal Who can’t move like the 20yo jock you have to give and take.
How difficult is that?

Maybe the next time some gamer tries to bend the rules don’t let them or so what let em. Maybe they have the next big thing.

You want a level playing field?
Not ever going to happen unless you are at the same range on the same day shooting under the same MD.
You really can’t compare your scores in TX to the scores in Alberta.
Everyone has different wind and conditions. Can you compare them sure but they are never going to be the “same”.

#1 solution
Start by enforcing rules at your match

Many of you seem to be forgetting this is a game, we are not “pros” we are trying to have fun. It’s all first world problems here.

For those of you that don’t read go back to an earlier post of mine here on this thread.
I don’t like the fact that the national match has a completely different set of rules and format that the monthly matches do. But meh so what it’s not a big deal I’m not going to go run and scream at the NRL. That’s what they have decided to do it’s their game it’s their show so do what they like, so be it and I accept it.

 

[chopit]

Thank you for clearing that up. We should all go to our matches and enforce the invisible rules made up on facebook on a secret server in hillarys bathroom in an open no restricition class. Hell why post rules if no updates or questions.

 

[Rover31]

Hey no problem I’m here to help ya buddy!

Or how about this
Until it’s clarified it’s not allowed

Don’t make it harder than what it is
It’s a game dude it’s supposed to be fun

And maybe just maybe rather than knee jerk reaction NRL is taking the time to look into this and see what the “right” thing is to do.

Obviously they should call you cause ya got all the answers right?

 

[chopit]

You got some stickers you could me me.

 

[chopit]

Send me.

 

[Rover31]

Brother I got plenty you can have
And several chamber flags!
Send me your addy and they will go in the mail Monday!

 

[chopit]

I dont even own or use an amp plate. I had to look up what it was. You cant get better if you dont know where you are weak. I can be critical of the nrl for their short comings if i want. I support the nrl and have volunteered to be an Ro at the nrl championship at ccc shooting complex in navasota. 2 days of vacation and my gas and time (2 hour drive one way). Out of 10 shooters at our last match all 10 have not got even a email from nrl all over 3 months. Only one of us turns in scores. The things that people on here are commenting on are common sense easy solutions not rocket science. I could give a shit less about a amp plate but i do want to know the rules and any changes so i can be compliant with them. If they continue to not address the needs of the people giving them money they will fail. Good thing is this seem popular enough that someone else will probably fill that void.

 

[308pirate]

evrybody needs to back up a few steps and truly look at what you are complaining about.

Upset that you didn’t get a sticker membership chamber flag packet
Really?

Mad that Joe Sniper has a gamer plate and I don’t
Bummer!

PO’d that the NRL didn’t call me back
Try em again, they are human just like you!

Let’s go back to one of my questions to the “mad at the NRL crowd”

Do you really think that every time someone shows up gaming the system with some new gadget at some range in your corner of the world that everything needs to stop and that needs to be addressed?
The rules have been very clear and very consistent to me and many that I converse with. It has clearly stated
All MDs have the ability to allow or disallow whatever they want or don’t want. You want the jr shooters to have the ability to have fun and come back or the old guy or gal Who can’t move like the 20yo jock you have to give and take.
How difficult is that?

Maybe the next time some gamer tries to bend the rules don’t let them or so what let em. Maybe they have the next big thing.

You want a level playing field?
Not ever going to happen unless you are at the same range on the same day shooting under the same MD.
You really can’t compare your scores in TX to the scores in Alberta.
Everyone has different wind and conditions. Can you compare them sure but they are never going to be the “same”.

#1 solution
Start by enforcing rules at your match

Many of you seem to be forgetting this is a game, we are not “pros” we are trying to have fun. It’s all first world problems here.

For those of you that don’t read go back to an earlier post of mine here on this thread.
I don’t like the fact that the national match has a completely different set of rules and format that the monthly matches do. But meh so what it’s not a big deal I’m not going to go run and scream at the NRL. That’s what they have decided to do it’s their game it’s their show so do what they like, so be it and I accept it.

Unfuck your "sport" then people who know better might take it seriously.

Or don't, and be forgotten or irrelevant in 10 years.

 

[AbbyKatt]

First off those are not text messages those are from the NRL22 Advisors/MD room where rules and COF are talked about and fixed. So you local MD should be involved and keeping up with the latest information going on within the organization.

Also if you watch the September and Oct Live shows the NRL22 director specifically also states that the plates are not legal for NRL22 matches.

You asked the question I gave you the answer. Complain and stomp your feet all you want but those are the rules.

I also have issue with these fixes and updates being done on a Facebook forum. I am an NRL22 Match Director. I am not on Facebook. I will not join Facebook. I have never received any updates, guidance or rule 'fixes' from the National organization. I only have the written rule set to follow. This is not the way to do business!

I have asked that the Advisors/MD forum be moved to the forum area on the NRL22 website. No traction.

 

[AbbyKatt]

I agree with you. But it’s causing confusion when they say MD discretion then publicly post that something isn’t allowed.

It's not 'publicly posted' if not available to, well, the public!

 

[sam4886]

I'm dumbfounded that there is even an argument here. Holy shit. Is it written in the official rules? No? Weird, you're welcome to stand back there and complain.

The solution is to use the rules as written and update as needed for the new year, not the other way around.

 

[Rover31]

Gotta agree with @sam4886
Base class rules are very clear. Open class?, well, it’s open...

 

[neeltburn]

evrybody needs to back up a few steps and truly look at what you are complaining about.

Upset that you didn’t get a sticker membership chamber flag packet
Really?

Mad that Joe Sniper has a gamer plate and I don’t
Bummer!

PO’d that the NRL didn’t call me back
Try em again, they are human just like you!

Let’s go back to one of my questions to the “mad at the NRL crowd”

Do you really think that every time someone shows up gaming the system with some new gadget at some range in your corner of the world that everything needs to stop and that needs to be addressed?
The rules have been very clear and very consistent to me and many that I converse with. It has clearly stated
All MDs have the ability to allow or disallow whatever they want or don’t want. You want the jr shooters to have the ability to have fun and come back or the old guy or gal Who can’t move like the 20yo jock you have to give and take.
How difficult is that?

Maybe the next time some gamer tries to bend the rules don’t let them or so what let em. Maybe they have the next big thing.

You want a level playing field?
Not ever going to happen unless you are at the same range on the same day shooting under the same MD.
You really can’t compare your scores in TX to the scores in Alberta.
Everyone has different wind and conditions. Can you compare them sure but they are never going to be the “same”.

#1 solution
Start by enforcing rules at your match

Many of you seem to be forgetting this is a game, we are not “pros” we are trying to have fun. It’s all first world problems here.

For those of you that don’t read go back to an earlier post of mine here on this thread.
I don’t like the fact that the national match has a completely different set of rules and format that the monthly matches do. But meh so what it’s not a big deal I’m not going to go run and scream at the NRL. That’s what they have decided to do it’s their game it’s their show so do what they like, so be it and I accept it.

Nailed it. I as an NRL22 MD am paid nothing, heck it cost me money. (Loaner rifles and ammo) but it does grow the sport. Give your MDs a break, everyone is doing what they can to make this series happen.

 

[JaoeyP]

I'm glad this thread came up, it made me make a decision. I was talking to a couple friends about setting up a NRL22 shoot for the Colorado front range as there isn't one there now and I need a monthly 22 match since steel dogs died out last year. Initial talks with the club BOD were actually really well received and actually encouraged. Biggest drawbacks were the paper stage slowing things down for scoring, a 100 yard limit as we are used to 35-200 yard spread and having to categorize/inspect a competitors equipment for base class.

Now I see that official rules are not really posted at an official location and that I have to follow some chat or facebook blog for updates. Sorry that is just not going to happen, you make it too difficult to be a MD and I'll pass. I'm going back to the idea of resurrecting steel dogs instead of starting a NRL22 match as I don't have to play equipment cop and all targets are steel with no paper scoring.

The rules are published. If it's not in there it's not a rule.

Additional stages are encouraged! You could certainly have 200 yard stages.

My match director uses kyl spinners in place of paper. Everyone is issued a score sheet for the whole course at sign in. No counting shots at the end of the match.

NRL22 is the most fun I've had shooting. I think it's a good organization with some mild growing pains. I would not hesitate recommending setting up a venue to anyone.

 

[goosed]

I for one, love the NRL22 leadership...

Everything is at the MD's discresion... Ask your MD... ask your MD... yeah, we don't like gamer plates no rule, but not allowed... ask your MD

We're inclusive, not exclusive... be inclusive... be inclusive... MD without FB, yep you're out... be inclusive

We're inclusive, COF is always inside 100yds... inside 100... inside 100... nationals, new game (past 200yds).... inside 100yds


They might be in over their heads with things growing way faster than anticipated, but at least they know how to be consistent...

 

[Dthomas3523]

evrybody needs to back up a few steps and truly look at what you are complaining about.

Upset that you didn’t get a sticker membership chamber flag packet
Really?

Mad that Joe Sniper has a gamer plate and I don’t
Bummer!

PO’d that the NRL didn’t call me back
Try em again, they are human just like you!

Let’s go back to one of my questions to the “mad at the NRL crowd”

Do you really think that every time someone shows up gaming the system with some new gadget at some range in your corner of the world that everything needs to stop and that needs to be addressed?
The rules have been very clear and very consistent to me and many that I converse with. It has clearly stated
All MDs have the ability to allow or disallow whatever they want or don’t want. You want the jr shooters to have the ability to have fun and come back or the old guy or gal Who can’t move like the 20yo jock you have to give and take.
How difficult is that?

Maybe the next time some gamer tries to bend the rules don’t let them or so what let em. Maybe they have the next big thing.

You want a level playing field?
Not ever going to happen unless you are at the same range on the same day shooting under the same MD.
You really can’t compare your scores in TX to the scores in Alberta.
Everyone has different wind and conditions. Can you compare them sure but they are never going to be the “same”.

#1 solution
Start by enforcing rules at your match

Many of you seem to be forgetting this is a game, we are not “pros” we are trying to have fun. It’s all first world problems here.

For those of you that don’t read go back to an earlier post of mine here on this thread.
I don’t like the fact that the national match has a completely different set of rules and format that the monthly matches do. But meh so what it’s not a big deal I’m not going to go run and scream at the NRL. That’s what they have decided to do it’s their game it’s their show so do what they like, so be it and I accept it.

I’ve taken three steps back and assessed your IQ.

The results aren’t good.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The rules are published. If it's not in there it's not a rule.

Additional stages are encouraged! You could certainly have 200 yard stages.

My match director uses kyl spinners in place of paper. Everyone is issued a score sheet for the whole course at sign in. No counting shots at the end of the match.

NRL22 is the most fun I've had shooting. I think it's a good organization with some mild growing pains. I would not hesitate recommending setting up a venue to anyone.

Except things aren’t published that ARE rules.....

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm dumbfounded that there is even an argument here. Holy shit. Is it written in the official rules? No? Weird, you're welcome to stand back there and complain.

The solution is to use the rules as written and update as needed for the new year, not the other way around.

Again, there are rules that are being passed down from NRL22 that aren’t on paper.

 

[JaoeyP]

Except things aren’t published that ARE rules.....

NRL22 2023 RULES

Empower the Sport

nrl22.org

Here they are. Not sure how to make this more simple- there is a list of rules. If it's not in there, it's not a rule.

 

[davere]

The rules are published. If it's not in there it's not a rule.

Exactly.

[quote[
My match director uses kyl spinners in place of paper. Everyone is issued a score sheet for the whole course at sign in. No counting shots at the end of the match.[/quote]

So, is it an NRL22 match, or just a .22 match in that basic format? If it's an NRL22 match, is he submitting scores to NRL? If so, how does that work (fairly) against everyone doing the same?

NRL22 is the most fun I've had shooting. I think it's a good organization with some mild growing pains. I would not hesitate recommending setting up a venue to anyone.

I think it's a great program, too - and a friend and I are working on getting it accepted at our local club as a regular match format. Hopefully soon!

 

[davere]

Here they are. Not sure how to make this more simple- there is a list of rules. If it's not in there, it's not a rule.

Watch the snark - it's clear you haven't read the thread.

This is exactly what several of us have been pointing out. NRL has ruled that certain equipment is against the rules for all rifles (including Open). It's not published in the rules. It was apparently mentioned in the awards broadcast earlier in the year (I think Feb was pointed out earlier in the thread?) and has apparently been discussed in a non-public "MDs only" group on Facebook.

Earlier in the thread, I quoted the entire text of the description of Open class rifles. Were one to run a match by the rules as published - as you say it should be (and I agree), the answer to the basic question in this thread is "Yes, AMP Plates are legal for Open". However, we're being told NRL has ruled them illegal in NRL22 - but it's not actually published in the rules. It's the basis of the whole discussion, which you seem to have missed.

Now apologize to @Dthomas3523 before he gets really mean... ?

 

[JaoeyP]

Exactly.

[quote[
My match director uses kyl spinners in place of paper. Everyone is issued a score sheet for the whole course at sign in. No counting shots at the end of the match.

So, is it an NRL22 match, or just a .22 match in that basic format? If it's an NRL22 match, is he submitting scores to NRL? If so, how does that work (fairly) against everyone doing the same?

[/QUOTE]
It's an NRL22 match. Yes, scores are submitted for NRL22 members. Not really sure how it works in terms of our club members' standings vs others. I don't worry about it. I think sometimes the kyl is easier, sometimes it's harder.

 

[JaoeyP]

Watch the snark - it's clear you haven't read the thread.

This is exactly what several of us have been pointing out. NRL has ruled that certain equipment is against the rules for all rifles (including Open). It's not published in the rules. It was apparently mentioned in the awards broadcast earlier in the year (I think Feb was pointed out earlier in the thread?) and has apparently been discussed in a non-public "MDs only" group on Facebook.

Earlier in the thread, I quoted the entire text of the description of Open class rifles. Were one to run a match by the rules as published - as you say it should be (and I agree), the answer to the basic question in this thread is "Yes, AMP Plates are legal for Open". However, we're being told NRL has ruled them illegal in NRL22 - but it's not actually published in the rules. It's the basis of the whole discussion, which you seem to have missed.

Now apologize to @Dthomas3523 before he gets really mean... ?

I haven't missed any of the discussion. I'm calling bologna on the content. My point is, if an organization publishes a rule set, if the rule isn't in there, it's not a rule. Period.

 

[davere]

So, is it an NRL22 match, or just a .22 match in that basic format? If it's an NRL22 match, is he submitting scores to NRL? If so, how does that work (fairly) against everyone doing the same?

It's an NRL22 match. Yes, scores are submitted for NRL22 members. Not really sure how it works in terms of our club members' standings vs others. I don't worry about it. I think sometimes the kyl is easier, sometimes it's harder.

@ScottDWallace - so, apparently, there's an NRL club sub'ing a KYL for the paper targets each month, and submitting those scores to NRL in parity with scores shot on paper? If this is true, it makes running the match way easier...

 

[goosed]

View attachment 7172198

I made that post in jest, but when they're biting...

 

[Humidnut]

This is exactly what several of us have been pointing out. NRL has ruled that certain equipment is against the rules for all rifles (including Open). It's not published in the rules. It was apparently mentioned in the awards broadcast earlier in the year (I think Feb was pointed out earlier in the thread?) and has apparently been discussed in a non-public "MDs only" group on Facebook.

So, I participate in the NRL22 but not as a paying member. My club sponsors the shoots, I am one of two people at our club who really dug into the rules for many reasons. The main one was:
1) we wanted to host a fair match where presumably if you shot at Club X and you went to our club, you should have an expectation that the rules and matches were conducted with parity.

I know there's decisions that are made that aren't published or even open to discussion unless you are a NRL22 Member. Furthermore, the format they post this stuff is frankly horrid. Social media sites do some good things, but aggregate discussion in an easily searchable and organized method is NOT one of them.

Now, germane to this discussion, while not exact, the precise question posed during the September COF review, published on the NRL22 Youtube channel @ 35m19s "Are ARCA Rails allowed in base class?" This was followed up by an answer a few moments later @ 36m33s with the answer "No ARCA on Base Class Rifles"
* Edit: No they are not allowed in Base Class. Does this mean they're allowed in Open?

The presenter offers the option of posing or discussing questions in their forums which are, frankly dead or social media which is closed off. I'd prefer the forums as searching social media for threads or archives of information, is poor. What irritates me is that the communication is just seemingly haphazard and closed off unless you are a member. I don't mind that, but I think there should be a gratis account for official match directors who may not be active shooters, just you know, for administrative purposes. What's a forum login or a FB invite gonna cost them?

Hell, this competition is the most fun I've had in a _very_ long time, and I see a ton of potential out there. I think they could be a bit more transparent with their communication to the community.

 

[10xk9]

So, I participate in the NRL22 but not as a paying member. My club sponsors the shoots, I am one of two people at our club who really dug into the rules for many reasons. The main one was:
1) we wanted to host a fair match where presumably if you shot at Club X and you went to our club, you should have an expectation that the rules and matches were conducted with parity.

I know there's decisions that are made that aren't published or even open to discussion unless you are a NRL22 Member. Furthermore, the format they post this stuff is frankly horrid. Social media sites do some good things, but aggregate discussion in an easily searchable and organized method is NOT one of them.

Now, germane to this discussion, while not exact, the precise question posed during the September COF review, published on the NRL22 Youtube channel @ 35m19s "Are ARCA Rails allowed in base class?" This was followed up by an answer a few moments later @ 36m33s with the answer "No ARCA on Base Class Rifles"
* Edit: No they are not allowed in Base Class. Does this mean they're allowed in Open?

The presenter offers the option of posing or discussing questions in their forums which are, frankly dead or social media which is closed off. I'd prefer the forums as searching social media for threads or archives of information, is poor. What irritates me is that the communication is just seemingly haphazard and closed off unless you are a member. I don't mind that, but I think there should be a gratis account for official match directors who may not be active shooters, just you know, for administrative purposes. What's a forum login or a FB invite gonna cost them?

Hell, this competition is the most fun I've had in a _very_ long time, and I see a ton of potential out there. I think they could be a bit more transparent with their communication to the community.

Arca rails are allowed on open class rifles . Several open class chassis already come with Arca rails .
Arca PLATES are not allowed in either open or base class in NRL22. That information was directly passed down from the national director.

 

[308pirate]

Arca rails are allowed on open class rifles . Several open class chassis already come with Arca rails .
Arca PLATES are not allowed in either open or base class in NRL22. That information was directly passed down from the national director.

If it ain't in a rule book it ain't a rule. No matter who said it or where.

That's what so many of these new "sports" don't get. When USPSA gets brought up as a model on how to manage a ruleset and its changes, the kool aid drinkers whine about "not wanting standardization".

LOL then your "sport" will forever remain a side show with no credibility

 

[davere]

That's what so many of these new "sports" don't get. When USPSA gets brought up as a model on how to manage a ruleset and its changes, the kool aid drinkers whine about "not wanting standardization".

USPSA is far from perfect. But, the ruleset is relatively mature (recent questionable decisions on what equipment is allowed in certain divisions notwithstanding), and they've been through and already resolved basically all of the issues that precision rifle is suffering from, now. Modeling a ruleset in that fashion, but leaving room for MDs to run matches as they see fit, would be relatively easy.

 

[308pirate]

USPSA is far from perfect. But, the ruleset is relatively mature (recent questionable decisions on what equipment is allowed in certain divisions notwithstanding), and they've been through and already resolved basically all of the issues that precision rifle is suffering from, now. Modeling a ruleset in that fashion, but leaving room for MDs to run matches as they see fit, would be relatively easy.

Leaving room for MD creativity in stage design within a basic rules parameter defining safety: good

Leaving room for MD creativity in how protests, arbitration, officiating etc are to be handled: not good.

There's much discussion regarding Troy McManus' recent "interpretations" about what is legal in Production handguns......suffice it to say that quite a few MDs have taken the stance that unless the Production appendix is updated, such "interpretations" will be a ticket to Open. As it should be.

 

[Rover31]

“Up to the MD discretion”

That’s every match or sports game I’ve seen, NRL, PRS, club, regional yada yada. It’s just like referees and umpires NASCAR NFL WWF. They call the game as they see it.

So no every game and competition is going to have a variable.
Even the nationals will have its own rule set.
I’m sure the question will be answered soon given the amount of insert the behavior as you want to call it...
In the meantime,
Good Lord stop whining, deal with it, call it locally how you want until they answer, go play the game.

Think of the rules as pirates do, not the 308 one! ?
It’s a set of guidelines

If it was a bad as you guys are making it out to be NRL22 would not be exploding in popularity like it is.

 

[308pirate]

“Up to the MD discretion”

That’s every match or sports game I’ve seen, NRL, PRS, club, regional yada yada. It’s just like referees and umpires NASCAR NFL WWF. They call the game as they see it.

Holy fuck you just don't get it, do you?

You obviously have never played in any real shooting sport. Nothing you listed above qualifies.

 

[lash]

“Up to the MD discretion”

That’s every match or sports game I’ve seen, NRL, PRS, club, regional yada yada. It’s just like referees and umpires NASCAR NFL WWF. They call the game as they see it.

Which is exactly what I said in post #6 that started the whole brouhaha. I was called out and admonished for not following the “rules”.

In the meantime,
Good Lord stop whining, deal with it, call it locally how you want until they answer, go play the game.

Again, reading comprehension goes a long way. The “bitching” started due to the fallout about not following ghost rules. These people are not wrong. They want to just play the game. Just don’t expect them to be called out or penalized for unpublished rules.

This whole thread could have been marginalized, had the initial answer been to follow published rules this season and expect changes for the next. Simple really.

 

[chopit]

Yea you silly fuckers stop whinning what do you think this is a forum for comments and opinons?

 

[Rover31]

Hold on let me go get my “like I care face”