Night Vision Andres Industries PumIR 6 Info?

[rlsmith1]

Andres has some stuff on their website and has been posting on IG for the last couple months about their PumIR 6. Has anyone who deals with Andres gotten info or timeline for these?

Seems to have a lot going for it and a couple new features that could be really interesting:
- Dedicated clip on that allows for small size and great performance
- 640 core unit with 12 deg FOV (36mm objective) seems just right for mid range use and 2-10x mag levels
- 9.6 oz without mount / battery (likely ~15 oz unit all in) is very light, maybe some TIG owners can chime in on what their mount weighs?
- 4.1" long puts it at home on AR15s in front of LPVOs / MPVOs
- Ability to add a magnifier to increase resolution optically (I'm still unclear as to how this impacts unity as there is a separate eyepiece available too) gives a lot of flexibility
- Seemingly rugged design intended for military use

A couple things I'd like to understand more:
- I don't totally understand how putting the magnifier impacts unity. If unity is changed, digital magnification could be introduced to correct but then FOV would be very narrow
- Lens may impact collimation and would need to be a very repeatable system to be useable
- If the TIG (with its 55mm lens) is useable without manual focus, I think the 36mm version would deal with this even better. I have never adjusted focus on my NOX18
- Ability to get these to market as they are currently sending lots of TIGs out for military contracts

Not a cheap unit at 8,000 euros, but street price may be better. Anyway, would love to hear any insight on this unit as it seems to check a ton of boxes and is very flexible with the optical magnification piece!

PumIR

PumIR™ - The modular talent Expandable with attachment lens to 4km range. Our latest thermal imaging attachment is the PumIR. With a total weight of less than 300g and a length of just over 10cm, it is certainly much smaller than the TigIR, but in combination with the appropriate attachment...

www.andres-industries-shop.de

 

[WhereNow&How]

"Hark, where art thou noble guinea pig, Lord Horta.

Searching the Hinterlands low and high in quest of the illusive beast no doubt."

 

[pmarkov]

Ability to get these to market as they are currently sending lots of TIGs out for military contracts

I did make a preorder for PumIR 6Z .5 back in May 2022 and I was enrolled for the first batch.

At that time the release date for this product was scheduled for July/August 2022.
Afterwards, when I asked them, they said that it was supposed to be ready around late October or early November.
Afterwards, I asked them again and they responded that the expected shipping date was mid December 2022.

And there is still no PumIR on the horizon...

 

[rlsmith1]

I did make a preorder for PumIR 6Z .5 back in May 2022 and I was enrolled for the first batch.

At that time the release date for this product was scheduled for July/August 2022.
Afterwards, when I asked them, they said that it was supposed to be ready around late October or early November.
Afterwards, I asked them again and they responded that the expected shipping date was mid December 2022.

And there is still no PumIR on the horizon...

That's a bummer. I just stumbled on their website and it said Q4 of 2022 so I wanted to believe them. Saw YT videos from 2021 shows so I figured they are taking their time getting them to market.

Are you going to stay in line? I hope you get one asap!!

 

[tangloppen]

Curious to see how they make that lens attachment system work without loosing zero.

And what the complete kit will end up costing…

 

[pmarkov]

Are you going to stay in line?

I am still unsure how to proceed. I think I will make one last inquiry in January about their progress and then I will decide...

Curious to see how they make that lens attachment system work without loosing zero

They are saying that there will be separate collimation processes with and without the lens. And for the different digital magnifications also. And all of them will be stored in the memory of the device. It will automatically recognise when the lens is on or off and will load the appropriate collimation settings, so that the shooter will not have to do anything more than mounting on or off that lens.

And what the complete kit will end up costing

The PumIR 6Z+ is 8000 Euro and the optional front lens attachment is around 2600 Euro.
There is also the Eratac picatinny mount, optional cables, batteries, etc.
The complete kit is around 11 000 Euro with EU taxes included.
These are the prices of my pre-order confirmation.
However, they are more than six months old, so I can only hope that they are not going to be raised...

 

[javemtr]

I emailed them recently about the delays and they said something like February 2023. We'll see. I wasn't ready to pre-order, so I will just wait until they are readily available. Andres has a rental service (good thing I live in Germany), so I will probably rent a unit and try it out before actually spending 8000 Euros on it.

 

[rlsmith1]

I am still unsure how to proceed. I think I will make one last inquiry in January about their progress and then I will decide...


They are saying that there will be separate collimation processes with and without the lens. And for the different digital magnifications also. And all of them will be stored in the memory of the device. It will automatically recognise when the lens is on or off and will load the appropriate collimation settings, so that the shooter will not have to do anything more than mounting on or off that lens.


The PumIR 6Z+ is 8000 Euro and the optional front lens attachment is around 2600 Euro.
There is also the Eratac picatinny mount, optional cables, batteries, etc.
The complete kit is around 11 000 Euro with EU taxes included.
These are the prices of my pre-order confirmation.
However, they are more than six months old, so I can only hope that they are not going to be raised...

Got it, did they say you could achieve Unity with the front lens on? Their website wording isn’t clear and doesn’t seem to match their diagrams. I know they have an extra ocular as well…

 

[pmarkov]

Got it, did they say you could achieve Unity with the front lens on? Their website wording isn’t clear and doesn’t seem to match their diagrams. I know they have an extra ocular as well…

They have two options for the ocular: 1x mag and 0.5x mag. These are not replaceable, so that at the time of the order, you will have to choose which one you will get.

The front lens attachment has 2x magnification. So, in theory if you use the front lens and 0.5x demagnified ocular, you should get 1x magnification overall. I am not sure how true this "Unity" will be...

If you use the device without the front lens and you have the 0.5x ocular, you will have to choose 2x digital magnification in order to see the image in 1x and to be able to use the scope's reticle for holdovers..

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is..."

 

[tangloppen]

No matter the procedure, it gives the user a choice.
I don’t recall any clip-on with this.
So, it is pretty darn interesting.

Didn’t know that Andres had a rental service. Might give it a try next year.

 

[Conqueror]

I like my Tig but the lack of manual focus really hurts its utility beyond 300-400 yards. I’m not sure I would buy another clip-on without a manual focus knob, even though I agree the PumIR is probably going to “tolerate” that better. However the other features that it borrows from the Tig are appealing - the magnetic lens cover, Andres’s very good image processing and digital zoom AI, the very solid Eratac QD mount, more color palettes than a comparable product like the Voodoo, the ability to run off 18650 batteries, etc.

 

[rlsmith1]

They have two options for the ocular: 1x mag and 0.5x mag. These are not replaceable, so that at the time of the order, you will have to choose which one you will get.

The front lens attachment has 2x magnification. So, in theory if you use the front lens and 0.5x demagnified ocular, you should get 1x magnification overall. I am not sure how true this "Unity" will be...

If you use the device without the front lens and you have the 0.5x ocular, you will have to choose 2x digital magnification in order to see the image in 1x and to be able to use the scope's reticle for holdovers..

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is..."

Got it and that makes sense, would be tough to make a quick change ocular and maintain a level of collimation…

Either way, being able to screw on a magnifier would be pretty nice for observation

 

[javemtr]

...
Didn’t know that Andres had a rental service. Might give it a try next year.

https://www.andres-industries-shop..../78133167/Categories/Produkte/Optronik/Mieten
PumIR is not listed as a rental option, but I guess that's because they are not available yet.
They don't mention it specifically, but I assume this is only an offer to German/European users.

 

[tangloppen]

https://www.andres-industries-shop.de/epages/78133167.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=/Shops/78133167/Categories/Produkte/Optronik/Mieten
PumIR is not listed as a rental option, but I guess that's because they are not available yet.
They don't mention it specifically, but I assume this is only an offer to German/European users.

I’m located in Denmark, so I’ll give it a closer look.
Depends on what sort of hunting comes up…

 

[cantankerous]

This looks like a cool little thermal.
The narrower 6° FOV option is similar to the UTCx line so it might have some real potential.
That being said I seem to recall @TheHorta saying the image in his TigIR6m was better than in his 6z... So if Andres nuders the image in the civilian Z version I sure wouldn't be interested.
I'll keep my eyes on this thing and anxiously wait for reviews.

Exited to add:
For the money involved, if they intentionally kill the image in the Z variant I'd rather just buy an EOtech Clip IR LR or POT VooDooS.

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

This looks like a cool little thermal.
The narrower 6° FOV option is similar to the UTCx line so it might have some real potential.
That being said I seem to recall @TheHorta saying the image in his TigIR6m was better than in his 6z... So if Andres nuders the image in the civilian Z version I sure wouldn't be interested.
I'll keep my eyes on this thing and anxiously wait for reviews.

Exited to add:
For the money involved, if they intentionally kill the image in the Z variant I'd rather just buy an EOtech Clip IR LR or POT VooDooS.

I've never looked through a 6M, but if they 6z+ image is neutered down, then that 6M must be amazing.. Granted I haven't looked through the Voodoo either, but I've seen enough online to know its really good. Is it an extra $8,000.00 better than potentially this?

 

[cantankerous]

I haven't looked through a Voodoo but people seem to love them.

I've owned a TigIR6z and it just fell short of my expectations passed ~500.
Even Cattle at 600+ yards usually turned into indistinct blobs.

I say "usually" because in very dry conditions it would give a more sharply defined image farther out, which leads me to believe that the issue wasn't the fixed focus but the sensor.

 

[TheHorta]

I think the problem with the 6Z+ is that it didn’t go through the QC rigors that they put the 6M through. I have since compared two different Z’s to my original M and one is virtually identical, while the other Z is definitely off. I think those who were unsatisfied with the Z have an “off” unit. I think Wig or someone here has spoken with Andres and they basically admitted some Z’s need tweaking and they should send them back to Andres for update/tweak. I’m not sure how that would work, having to go back to Germany. It would be worth a nominal fee (say, under $1000) for everyone not happy with their Tig to have it refreshed by Andres.

Maybe SOK could put that together. I have a Z I’d definitely send.

 

[TheHorta]

As it sits now, once EOTech drops their prices on their ClipIR line, I’d opt for an LR over the TigIR in today’s market.

 

[Klemm]

I too am somewhat disappointed with my tig. But for being my first thermal I am happy with it. I think the image quality should be a little bit better but I have really nothing to compare to. I do like the fact that I can mount it To the front of the objective lens on the scope and not have to worry about having to put another rail on my stock. I’m running a Mcmillan A5.

 

[rlsmith1]

I agree, there are better options out there in the 55mm clip on segment, but the 35mm doesn’t have a ton which makes me like the PumIR even more. If there is (or will be) a comparable unit I’d be all ears. This PumIR is just so small and light on paper, while still supporting reasonable magnification

 

[Jnull]

As it sits now, once EOTech drops their prices on their ClipIR line, I’d opt for an LR over the TigIR in today’s market.

Any more info on the price drop?

 

[TheHorta]

Any more info on the price drop?

Hold your breath. I’ll be right back.

 

[javemtr]

I agree, there are better options out there in the 55mm clip on segment, but the 35mm doesn’t have a ton which makes me like the PumIR even more. If there is (or will be) a comparable unit I’d be all ears. This PumIR is just so small and light on paper, while still supporting reasonable magnification

The compact size is definitely why I'm interested in this unit. My hunting area is mainly forest, so the engagement distances are short, 100 meters is already pushing it. I can't believe I need a TigIR for that.

 

[Conqueror]

I think of this like I think of the Tig, in a way. The Tig is like the baby UTM/Voodoo-M that is somewhat less capable but costs 50% less. The PumIR might be like a baby Voodoo-S that is somewhat less capable but also costs 50% less. A nice middle ground between the RH25 and the Voodoo-S.

 

[javemtr]

Checked the website again: in the last few days they must have increased the price by 10%, the civilian model now sits at 8,800 Euros.

 

[Conqueror]

 

[bwo44]

Thoughts on a new Tig 6Z+ for $8500 out the door?

I live in Texas and am usually hunting between 30 and 300 yds
Vortex 1-10

@wigwamitus @TheHorta emailed Andres to see if they know what the defective units were. Wonder if they were units that were produced in a certain time frame

Reading Mr. Andres statements about Ukraine make me not want to support the company, but I suppose all defense contracting companies are soulless and love war. Basically:
Russia bad
Ukraine good and Western defender (lol)
“Government should have monopolized use of legitimate force”

European weak sauce

 

[Conqueror]

For 8500 new it’s worth considering. The competition in that space is… what, the Yoter C or the RH25?

I’d sell you mine for less than that though, cause I think I’m gonna buy a Voodoo.

 

[rlsmith1]

For 8500 new it’s worth considering. The competition in that space is… what, the Yoter C or the RH25?

I’d sell you mine for less than that though, cause I think I’m gonna buy a Voodoo.

Depending on how it handles magnification, yes. Seems like it should tolerate ~8x magnification and be very light / compact (think NOX18 specs).

A Yoter C with a 35mm objective would be very close

ETA: Hope you enjoy that Voodoo S!

 

[rlsmith1]

I know they were at some european industry show last month, any word on these? @pmarkov have you heard anything else from them?

They posted this today, so the product is not dead...

 

[javemtr]

I will most likely attend IWA in Nuremberg at the beginning of March and intend to visit their booth and find out as much as I can. Any specific questions you guys want answered?

 

[WhereNow&How]

I know they were at some european industry show last month, any word on these? @pmarkov have you heard anything else from them?

They posted this today, so the product is not dead...

View attachment 8071897

Buck Fiden is probably spending MILLIONS of US Citizens dollars sending train loads of them from Germany to the Ukraine. Minus his kick back.

 

[rlsmith1]

I will most likely attend IWA in Nuremberg at the beginning of March and intend to visit their booth and find out as much as I can. Any specific questions you guys want answered?

Anxious to hear more, I've got a couple questions...

• Why did they increase price by 800 euros?
• Total weight of the system including mount and battery?
• Manual focus?
• What sight height is this optimized for? I assume 1.5" or whatever the equivalent is in centimeters
• They announced this back in March 2022, when will it be available?
• If I order a unit with 1x ocular, I assume I'm good to go with holdovers etc. on my day scope (everything is at unity). However, what happens if I have the 1x ocular and decide to use the magnifier? I assume FOV is cut in half and my holds are now off. Have they thought about an ocular that can be swapped?

 

[javemtr]

... What sight height is this optimized for? I assume 1.5" or whatever the equivalent is in centimeters

In their (probably outdated) catalog, they mention pic rail adapters in 36/38/39/41 mm height. In freedom units that's 1.417, 1.496, 1.535, 1.614 inches.
I'll try to get some answers on the rest of your questions.

 

[pmarkov]

I know they were at some european industry show last month, any word on these? @pmarkov have you heard anything else from them?

After I got my last reply in January that the release of the product was postponed again, I decided to cancel my preorder and to look for another product.

It will be a whole year of waiting for this device. In the area of thermal optics development and product variety, one year is not a short time..

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

After I got my last reply in January that the release of the product was postponed again, I decided to cancel my preorder and to look for another product.

It will be a whole year of waiting for this device. In the area of thermal optics development and product variety, one year is not a short time..

One dealer told me March but that was also 3 weeks ago. It got delayed again?

 

[pmarkov]

One dealer told me March but that was also 3 weeks ago. It got delayed again?

My last reply from them was for availability around end of February, beginning of March.
This was the fourth time they made a promise which they did not keep the previous three times.
My preorder was confirmed back in May 2022.
So, I finally decided to cancel it.

 

[rlsmith1]

I will most likely attend IWA in Nuremberg at the beginning of March and intend to visit their booth and find out as much as I can. Any specific questions you guys want answered?

Anxiously waiting for your report back!

 

[javemtr]

I'll be there on Thursday and I have your list of questions ready

 

[Nohuddlefirearms]

My last reply from them was for availability around end of February, beginning of March.
This was the fourth time they made a promise which they did not keep the previous three times.
My preorder was confirmed back in May 2022.
So, I finally decided to cancel it.

What scope is everyone referencing? Sorry I'm on the Stone Age as I currently run a Halo XRF and am just now getting into the clip on game? Some other long range precision buddies are liking their experience with the TIGir 6z so it's got me curious.

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

What scope is everyone referencing? Sorry I'm on the Stone Age as I currently run a Halo XRF and am just now getting into the clip on game? Some other long range precision buddies are liking their experience with the TIGir 6z so it's got me curious.

It's not a scope, but here is some info..

https://www.andres-industries-shop.de/Products/Optronic/Thermal-clip-on-and-aiming-devices/PumIR

 

[Nohuddlefirearms]

It's not a scope, but here is some info..

https://www.andres-industries-shop.de/Products/Optronic/Thermal-clip-on-and-aiming-devices/PumIR

Thank you!

 

[tangloppen]

I'll be there on Thursday and I have your list of questions ready

If possible, please pass by Photonis booth and see if they have anything official about their new mystery supertubethingy…

 

[javemtr]

Ok, I tried to get as much information out of the Andres booth guy as possible:
- PumIR release date? They claim June of 2023.
- Why 10% price increase? They claim that FLIR Boson cores increased in price dramatically in the last year and a price adjustment was necessary.
Manual focus? There will be no manual focus.
Height of Picatinny rail mounts? 36/38/39/41 mm
Attachment of 2x front lens is sensed by the unit automatically and a different set of collimation settings (specific to the 2x front lens) will be loaded by the software automatically. (You will have to save collimation settings with and without 2x front lens beforehand)
The ocular lens is fixed mounted and can only be changed at the factory (cost makes this option not feasible)

 

[javemtr]

There will also be versions of the TigIR and PumIR with improved temperature resolution below 20 mK and smaller sensor lag.
And several years in the future there will be a long range thermal with two optical magnification settings.

 

[rlsmith1]

I was hoping you would remember today!

Did they give any other comment on why the June 2023 date is the real date?

I don't totally understand the ramifications of adding a 2x up front, but without demag in the back it seems like FOV would be cut in half and my holds would then have to double to be accurate?

There will also be versions of the TigIR and PumIR with improved temperature resolution below 20 mK and smaller sensor lag.
And several years in the future there will be a long range thermal with two optical magnification settings.

That's pretty sweet on the sensor side. Good to know they use FLIR Boson cores too...

I won't hold my breath on their long range clip on, but maybe I'll be surprised!

 

[javemtr]

Did they give any other comment on why the June 2023 date is the real date?

They have huge mil customer orders for the TigIR that need to be filled by fixed delivery dates, so those take priorities. They are unable to find properly trained staff and the general parts supply situation is sketchy, everything is delayed. Those could all be excuses, who knows. And I have no idea if the June date isn't just another "in 2 weeks" type excuse.

I don't totally understand the ramifications of adding a 2x up front, but without demag in the back it seems like FOV would be cut in half and my holds would then have to double to be accurate?

That's how I understand it at least. The guy really tried to dissuade me from the 2x lens idea. The lens alone is like 3000 Euros and it almost doubles the PumIR's size.

 

[rlsmith1]

Looks like someone over there has one in hand to take a look at!

 

[tangloppen]

That thing is tiny!