Hunting & Fishing Another hunting death

[GardDog]

Terrible tragedy, but at least 3 rules of gun safety had to be broken in order for this to happen.


LORANGER, LA — Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (LDWF) Enforcement Division agents and Tangipahoa Parish Sheriff’s Office (TPSO) deputies are investigating a potential hunting incident involving a fatality on Dec. 6 in Tangipahoa Parish.

LDWF agents and TPSO deputies responded to a 911 call concerning the fatal shooting of Joseph H. Stevens Jr., 33, of Hammond around 2:30 p.m. on Dec. 6.

Stevens and Stacey M. Trapp, 37, of Loranger, were hunting together on some property near 55202 Hwy. 1062 in Loranger. The two had been hunting about an hour when they decided to go home.

According to Trapp, as the two walked back to their vehicles they came upon a net wire fence. As they walked along the fence looking for an easier crossing point Trapp walked in front of Stevens.

Trapp then squatted down to go under some bushes with his .270 caliber bolt action rifle slung onto his right shoulder. As he squatted down his rifle went off with the bullet fatally striking Stevens. Trapp then called 911 for help.

Investigators believe that Stevens was killed instantly and do not suspect foul play at this time. Stevens’ body was turned over to the Tangipahoa Coroner’s Office.

LDWF advises hunters to utilize basic hunting safety procedures when going to and from their hunting locations, which includes having the gun on safe and no bullets or shells in the chamber.

 

[stinkyDrunk]

I really wish some of the dollars that pay for nagging PSAs about "buzzed driving is drunk driving" and "don't text and drive" and "save for retirement" went to put those 4 rules out there...would do a lot more good.

 

[psinclair]

Hot chambers VS. cold chambers......is always an easy choice for me.

 

[Graham]

Hot chambers VS. cold chambers......is always an easy choice for me.

Control the muzzle vs. don't bother to control the muzzle is a harder choice to make.

 

[psinclair]

There's never been anyone killed from an AD with a cold chamber......and nothing anyone can say about hunting with a hot chamber, will ever convince me that it's as safe as a cold chamber.

 

[Andy27AL]

There's never been anyone killed from an AD with a cold chamber......and nothing anyone can say about hunting with a hot chamber, will ever convince me that it's as safe as a cold chamber.

But there have been many killed by a lackadaisical approach to safety because they THOUGHT the gun was cold. I understand your point though.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

At the end of the day the basic rules of gun safety would have prevented this. Hot chamber or not it should have never been pointing in his direction let alone at him.

I kill as many deer walking around as I do sitting in a stand so I'm not hunting with a cold chamber, I exercise common sense instead.

 

[Bobo3020]

At the end of the day the basic rules of gun safety would have prevented this. Hot chamber or not it should have never been pointing in his direction let alone at him.

I kill as many deer walking around as I do sitting in a stand so I'm not hunting with a cold chamber, I exercise common sense instead.

Agree!

 

[kurt]

There's never been anyone killed from an AD with a cold chamber......and nothing anyone can say about hunting with a hot chamber, will ever convince me that it's as safe as a cold chamber.

That's how my dad taught me and have yet not to shoot a deer because of it.

 

[Smcarroll]

At the end of the day the basic rules of gun safety would have prevented this. Hot chamber or not it should have never been pointing in his direction let alone at him.

I kill as many deer walking around as I do sitting in a stand so I'm not hunting with a cold chamber, I exercise common sense instead.

Agreed. I carry a loaded handgun all the time, why would carrying a loaded rifle be different.

 

[FALex]

There's never been anyone killed from an AD with a cold chamber......and nothing anyone can say about hunting with a hot chamber, will ever convince me that it's as safe as a cold chamber.

Glad to see you post that. Unfortunately, I have had this argument twice this past hunting season. I told my brother I refused to go hunting with him if he carried his rifle hot because he insisted on it. I'd rather miss my chance at an animal having to slide one into the chamber than risk a highly preventable tragedy such as this.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Glad to see you post that. Unfortunately, I have had this argument twice this past hunting season. I told my brother I refused to go hunting with him if he carried his rifle hot because he insisted on it. I'd rather miss my chance at an animal having to slide one into the chamber than risk a highly preventable tragedy such as this.

agreed !

 

[BravoFoxtrot]

Hot chambers VS. cold chambers......is always an easy choice for me.

Yep. This takes a lot of "what if's" out of the safety equation.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I usually stay cold until the action happens, but as a general rule, if my muzzle isnt up or down, the bolt is open. Just to be extra careful.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

I used to hunt with my rifle loaded on the way to the stand but now that I hunt with my son both guns go in unloaded. I have also shot alot of deer on the move but its not worth the risk and a rifle can be chambered in a matter of seconds. Ive always thought shooting one on the way to or out of the stand was luck not hunting anyway.

 

[Rocky 1\508]

Hot chambers VS. cold chambers......is always an easy choice for me.

Yep...

 

[shoot4fun]

Cold, hot, hot ,cold. Who the hell cares. It should always be treated as a hot rifle.
I took a friend hunting one time. About dusk I heard a shot from his direction. When I got up with him a little bit later I asked if I could go help drag his deer back. He said he didn't kill one. I said "well what did you shoot at". He said he did not shoot. Later he came clean about what happened. It seems he got ready to get out of the stand so he decided to unload the rifle. He pointed it at the ground, worked the bolt & heard the cartridge hit the floor. That is when he closed the bolt and snapped the trigger. Yup, BOOM! Forgot about the other two rounds in the mag. He had made his last trip anywhere with firearms and me involved.
Stuff happens and I am sure his hunting companion feels terrible. Obviously he broke one of the rules of safety and his friend paid the ultimate price.

 

[flylo]

Took a friend bear hunting. The cabin is remote & about 1/4 mile walk in from the trucks. My friend had to get something fromthe truck at night which was pitch black. Heard a shot. Later he told me he almost shot his foot off with his single action super blackhawk ruger 44 mag which had to be out of the holster & cocked. Next year while deer hunting on his farm he did shoot half his foot off. I never invited him back.A 44 mag makes an ugly foot.

 

[FALex]

why the hell couldn't I hunt with you guys?! Both parties I went with this past season had individuals in them who attempted to hunt with hot chambers. Every morning I asked everyone if they had rounds in their chambers. Every damn time there was at least one person ready to go. I thought hunting cold chamber was the norm (it is for me, and it sounds like it is for you folks too), but I guess others are not as privy. Then we have folks who are shocked by actions such as this, asking, "how could this ever happen?"

 

[nnn66]

My dad was always into duck hunting and when I was about 5 years old, I was allowed to start going with him. We walked about a mile in the dark from the house to the duck hunting spot. It was my job to sit still and be quiet and he did all the gun handling and shooting. The next year, I was allowed to carry the empty shotgun to and from the duck blind, but he still did all the shooting. I was taught that we always carry the gun unloaded and only load it when we were settled into the blind. By the time I was 7, I had my own single shot shotgun and was already well aware of the rules regarding muzzle awareness and walking around with loaded guns. As I grew older, I developed a serious interest in all types of hunting and have spent well over 40 years enjoying the sport. To this day, those early lessons from my dad are always imbedded in my mind whenever I'm handling firearms. I'll chamber a round while walking if the type of hunting I'm doing requires it, but otherwise I make a habit of playing it safe and keeping my chamber empty. Most hunters/shooters I've ever been around have been very safety conscious people, but I have come across a few who made me more than a little uncomfortable with their gun handling techniques.

I feel fortunate that I was properly trained in gun safety at an early age and I don't ever want to be involved in a horror story about accidentally shooting myself or someone else, so I'll continue to play it safe.

 

[Smcarroll]

So by your guys logic its a miracle I am still alive after 8 years of daily concealed carry? My carry weapon is always loaded, condition 1. A unloaded weapon is useless.

 

[nnn66]

So by your guys logic its a miracle I am still alive after 8 years of daily concealed carry? My carry weapon is always loaded, condition 1. A unloaded weapon is useless.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with miracles. I also carry a loaded concealed handgun at times, but I think our discussion was about safety practices while walking in and out of the woods for hunting. I think it also depends upon the particular circumstance. If I'm walking through the woods in the dark to get to a deer stand, I don't see much sense in having a loaded gun. I can just quietly work the action and chamber a round after I get there. If I am walking through a field where I might flush a covey of quail or a pheasant, it would be silly to be carrying an unloaded shotgun. If the type of hunting I'm doing requires a chambered round for a quick shot or to avoid spooking the animal with the sound of the action, then so be it. If there's not a real need for a chambered round, then I wait until the appropriate time.

I guess it's like with most any activity that is potentially dangerous....it's just a good idea to develop good safety habits. I know plenty of guys who use various hand tools and power tools without safety glasses and have never had an eye injury,but I don't consider it a miracle. I have done the same on occasion, but I try to make a habit of grabbing my safety glasses before I cut a board with a miter saw or drive some nails with a hammer. I don't lose any advantage by practicing good safety habits so why not do it?

 

[Bull Arms]

I think that it is fair to say that concealed carry and recreational hunting should be viewed separately as one is likely not a "life and death" matter, much the same as you would likely not carry a duty weapon in a cold condition. My two cents. Stay safe.

 

[Smcarroll]

I think that it is fair to say that concealed carry and recreational hunting should be viewed separately as one is likely not a "life and death" matter, much the same as you would likely not carry a duty weapon in a cold condition. My two cents. Stay safe.

When you live and hunt where the animals are big and dangerous you carry a loaded gun. Grizzly bears, wolves, cougars, snakes, hell a buddy of mine was mauled by a bobcat this summer. Maybe I am paranoid but I ain't got et yet.

 

[BALLISTIC]

You guys need to learn how to safely handle a firearm if you think rocking a cold chamber is the way to go. I don't hunt cold, and neither do my friends, but then again we don't invite people who are questionable out with us.

 

[Guy Montag]

There's never been anyone killed from an AD with a cold chamber......and nothing anyone can say about hunting with a hot chamber, will ever convince me that it's as safe as a cold chamber.

Well said Pat, you nailed it.

 

[Bull Arms]

When you live and hunt where the animals are big and dangerous you carry a loaded gun. Grizzly bears, wolves, cougars, snakes, hell a buddy of mine was mauled by a bobcat this summer. Maybe I am paranoid but I ain't got et yet.

Fair enough, perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. I lived and hunted in Africa for a short time, so I will concede the "dangerous critter" argument.

Not trying to stray from the point, but since you brought it up, I'm curious how the fellow got mauled by the bobcat, was he calling or was this a totally random attack?

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

I like to sneak and stalk through the woods even if I am heading to a stand so I stay hot. If I'm climbing a stand or crossing a fence I unload. I'm not shooting from standing on a fence anyway.
Gun rules for me don't change whether a gun is loaded or not. I have had an "empty" gun go bang in my hands. Bad feeling. But all other rules were followed and I shot the floor. There has been many a people killed accidently with an empty gun. Don't get lulled into a false sense of security because you carry cold.
If you think you are absolutely safer carrying an empty chamber you're thinking is wrong anyways. Just my two cents.

 

[SFree]

Rule No. 1- ALL GUNS ARE LOADED!

I'm deeply sorry for those involved, but the fact remains that the muzzle was in the wrong position and the victim was in direct line with the muzzle...
Never aim your weapon at anything you do not wish to destroy.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Rule No. 1- ALL GUNS ARE LOADED!

I'm deeply sorry for those involved, but the fact remains that the muzzle was in the wrong position and the victim was in direct line with the muzzle...
Never aim your weapon at anything you do not wish to destroy.

Rule No. 2-- ALL GUNS ARE LOADED!!!
Rule No. 3--- See Rules No. 1+2!!!!!

 

[kineticmedic]

damn shame, so avoidable.

 

[Smcarroll]

Fair enough, perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. I lived and hunted in Africa for a short time, so I will concede the "dangerous critter" argument.

Not trying to stray from the point, but since you brought it up, I'm curious how the fellow got mauled by the bobcat, was he calling or was this a totally random attack?

He was hiking and got too close its den. The most dangerous critter in the woods walks on 2 legs.

 

[siscoe308]

Years back, I was fresh out of USMC bootcamp, going through the gun safe. Pulled out my .270, worked the action and dropped the hammer. BOOM! My kid brother had left rounds on the mag, no round in chamber. When i worked the action and nothing flew out, I assumed all was clear. Longest run of my life, from my room down to the kitchen, all the while dreading what I would find. Thank God no one was injured.

 

[diverdon]

Rule No. 2-- ALL GUNS ARE LOADED!!!
Rule No. 3--- See Rules No. 1+2!!!!!

WRONG!

Rule#1: All guns are loaded.
Rule#2: Do not allow the muzzle to cross anything you are unwilling to destroy.
Rule#3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target,
Rule#4: Always be sure of your target.

I suggest you learn the rules before the next time you use a firearm so we do not have to talk about you next.

 

[SFree]

Diverdon,
Thanks for completing the rest of the rules! My boys know them by heart and are constantly checking each other when we are in the woods/range.

One more rule they hear me say, "Muzzle high, people die"...

 

[Sniper Uncle]

WRONG!

Rule#1: All guns are loaded.
Rule#2: Do not allow the muzzle to cross anything you are unwilling to destroy.
Rule#3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target,
Rule#4: Always be sure of your target.

I suggest you learn the rules before the next time you use a firearm so we do not have to talk about you next.

Respectfully, I disagree with you. Those rules you list are numbers 4 through 6.


Cheers,
Tim
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall NOT be Infringed

 

[Mod Adahy]

Very preventable tragedy, especially this close to Christmas.

 

[Timberbeast7]

I've hunted with a round in the chamber my entire life, never had an issue as I observe the proper gun handling rules. In addition to that, though, I'm very selective about who I hunt with. If I am hunting with someone new we have a concise but stern gun safety lesson before any guns are handled and until they demonstrate proper handling they may be hunting with an empty chamber.

 

[jeffersonv]

You know what I've seen people loose control of the muzzle all the time. Just the slightest distraction or loss of concentration and it's time to dive!
Not fun.
This is something I would NOT trust ANYONE with even after a stern safety lesson. It takes time to develop this habit. New guys just don't have it.
I put priority on controlling the muzzle over a hot or cold chamber but I'm glad guys do both.

 

[Graham]

It never ceases to amaze me, during these kinds of safety discussions, how many people who claim to be experienced shooters have no clue as to what the fundamental rules of gun safety actually are.

 

[xdeano]

I took a buddy hunting a couple of weeks ago and he had his rifle shouldered over his head cross carry. He thought he saw something and swung around and i ended up with a muzzle right below my ear. I was pissed and I know that rig was hot. Stupid! Pisses me off every time I think about it. He did that one more time and it wasn't as close as the first time, but i grabbed that barrel and whipped him back around pointing the muzzle straight up. He got the point. Some people just don't think. I don't know if it's a lack of focus or a lack of common sense.

xdeano

 

[psinclair]

I've hunted with a round in the chamber my entire life, never had an issue as I observe the proper gun handling rules. In addition to that, though, I'm very selective about who I hunt with. If I am hunting with someone new we have a concise but stern gun safety lesson before any guns are handled and until they demonstrate proper handling they may be hunting with an empty chamber.

Anybody hunting with me, WILL hunt with an empty chamber. Even the most experienced, season hunter, walking around hot, can slip, fall, and have an AD. Even if the odds are one million to one. The odds of an AD with a cold chamber are zero....

 

[Graham]

Another hunting death

But....How many clients have you lost to rogue mountain lion attacks??

 

[mdesign]

I lived this experience first hand when I was a teenager and my friend shot himself with a shotgun. He lived but only because the wound was not instantly fatal and I was there to provide first aid and get help. At the time, I was no stranger to tough circumstances in life but it was easily the most serious, stunning event that had ever happened to me. Words can hardly describe the gut wrenching disbelief at what had happened.

Thankfully I was not involved in the events that lead to the accident and was able to do what I could but I'll never forget the reaction of his family when they were summoned to the hospital...I cannot imagine having my carelessness be responsible to the death or injury of another...I hunted alone for many years after that day. I was just a kid but you can never take a bullet back or undo an act of carelessness....not ever.

I cannot say it caused me to carry on an empty chamber, I guess I never thought of it that way but I can certainly and completely understand and support those that do. As I read the posts in this thread and relive the events of that day, I question my safety practices and wonder if I need to rethink what I do.

 

[mt Al]

Anybody hunting with me, WILL hunt with an empty chamber. Even the most experienced, season hunter, walking around hot, can slip, fall, and have an AD. Even if the odds are one million to one. The odds of an AD with a cold chamber are zero....

Right on the money. Sadly the odds of a slip and fall are way above a million to one. If you spend time outside in the mountains with a rifle, you're going to slip sometime. Cold chamber always and I never hunt with people who need a round in the chamber. I personally know of three families who most likely (read "MOST LIKELY") would not be devastated for the rest of their lives if they had cold chambers.

siscoe308: thanks for sharing that story, I had a similar one that scared the shit out of me but the shot was in a crawl space. I can't cast the first stone at anyone who has had a gun accident of any kind.

I also cannot argue with the rules of gun safety, they're critical, but I can't count on everyone following them every time AND, as above, even if you're following them you can slip and fall. Happens.

I note a general difference of opinion in this thread: cold chamber west of Mississippi, hot east (not 100%). In the west we hunt wide open spaces and it does give us an opportunity to see, stalk, set up a shot much more often than in the tight woods of the East.

 

[Anvil_X]

Certainly a lot of views on a pretty simple subject. Funny thing is that you're all pretty much in agreement on safety.
I'm sure some of you are former military and will understand the acronym METT-TC.
for those not familiar:
Mission
Enemy
Time
Terrain
-
Troop and Civilian Considerations


Not a single one of us has the same METT-TC as another, and that's what I believe is leading to the lively nature of this discussion. Some of you, probably the empty chamber guys, hunt in stands, and have to jack around through the underbrush and over fences to get there at 4 in the morning, while others have to stalk and hunt their prey and keep an eye out for bears/lions/pick your fear. Naturally, you adapt to the method safest for your hunt. That's good, keep it up.

My preference for Amber/Red status shifts based on the six considerations of METT-TC, but that acronym is just a way to organize the most important thing in Firearm safety-- Common Sense.
I personally don't care if my hunting buddies are Red-Direct, but that's because they're coincidentally the same men I deployed with, and I'm 100% confident that they won't be stupid.

Bear in mind, not everybody hunts the same prey as you, in the same terrain, at the same time of day. The best tool in firearm safety is a properly trained and thinking brain.

 

[nexusfire]

Hot chambers VS. cold chambers......is always an easy choice for me.

You ever pheasant or quail hunt? You cannot do it with a cold chamber.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

 

[jeffersonv]

Anybody hunting with me, WILL hunt with an empty chamber. Even the most experienced, season hunter, walking around hot, can slip, fall, and have an AD. Even if the odds are one million to one. The odds of an AD with a cold chamber are zero....

Yup. I noticed my earlier post could be misinterpreted. The above post is a must IMO.
Still not an excuse to not control your muzzle.

 

[FALex]

So by your guys logic its a miracle I am still alive after 8 years of daily concealed carry? My carry weapon is always loaded, condition 1. A unloaded weapon is useless.

So is my duty weapon, however, it is not being handled when I am climbing rock faces, fences, and all other types of crazy shit like my rifle is when I am out hunting. Would you hold your pistol with a round in the chamber while out doing these same activities?

Apples to oranges comparison.

 

[Smcarroll]

So is my duty weapon, however, it is not being handled when I am climbing rock faces, fences, and all other types of crazy shit like my rifle is when I am out hunting. Would you hold your pistol with a round in the chamber while out doing these same activities?

Apples to oranges comparison.

Its okay if you guys are scared of guns I get that. I just know that I have spent thousands of hours with a loaded rifle and have never shot a person or had a ND.