Another Reason I Hate Unions

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

Alot of your opinion is going to be developed by your age, and what part of the country you live in. And whether you were brought up in a white collar or a blue collar home.

I was brought up in small town WV, in the heart of coal country. With dozens of family members in the coal industry. And I have lost several family members in the coal mines. So it would probably be obvious how I am going to think about the unions. Especially with the dismal safety records in the coal industry.

Even with the union the mines are still a dangerous place to work. I was offered a job in ArkWright mine when I graduated from high school. I went to college instead. My best friend went in the mines. He died 20 days later in a side shear on the main line. I could have easily been right there beside him. My brother was the Federal investigator. My brother said there was nothing left of Mike.

So yes I like the unions. Tom.

 

[Longguns]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

+ 10000 on that. I have noticied that the younger generation hates unions because they have not dealt with them. Opinions are like butt holes, Everybody has one. To each and his own.

 

[Bryan27]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JBomb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know I'm new here and all, but I figured if someone is willing to listen...I'll tell you about the union I belong to. I belong to the Plumbers & Pipefitters Union here in Illinois(go figure). Granted, this is the only union I have ever belonged to...I think you guys are letting every bad story you have ever heard about the Union sway your attitude on Unions. I'm not saying there are not bad unions out there, because there are. The same thing happens when we watch videos of bad police officers taking peoples guns away...not every police officer would do this.

With that said, I will be the first to admit I make a good wage...not CEO wage, but when I work...I can support my family on it. Do I deserve that kind of wage, I would like to think so...I did work full 40+ hour weeks during my apprenticeship and at the same time I went to MANDATORY night classes for 4 hours a night two times a week and the occasional Saturday. I did this for five years and at the end of the five years, I had to pass a state license test... BEFORE I could make "Journeyman scale".

Now, with that said, there is NO seniority in my Union...if your not worth a sh!t, you will be scratching your unemployed @ss. A contractor is not going to pay top dollar for someone who is inept. Another thing to note, is I only get paid when I work...period. Union employees do NOT receive vacation pay, holiday pay, sick pay...nothing. Quite frankly, if you don't work...you don't get paid.

I hope this sheds some favorable light on how some Unions operate...and so I stay on track. I think it is BULLSH!t that these workers will not walk their own pickit lines.

Kind regards,
Jared

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Your union experience sounds similar to mine even thought we are in different unions and occupations, only difference is we do have seniority rights within our districts. We operate around the clock 24/7/365. The first 14 months I worked for the company I did not have a day off in the traditional sense....I was on call and would work a minimum of 6 or 7 shifts a week but would sometimes get 5 shifts in 3 days and then not called again to work for a day or two. But, I always had to be available to work within 1.5 hours of being called. I have not had a Christmas off in 5 years, but I'm not going to complain about the OT. We get 11 paid holidays a year, but since we don't close down for holidays you have to still work your job. On my district there are just a bunch of hard working men and woman who come to work to get the job done for OUR customers. In the RR industry, the train crews are the face of the company and are the ones who develop business relationships and friendships with our customers, not the managers who only speak to customers on the phone nor the CEO a thousand miles away. We police our own ranks pretty well and when someone tries to pull some "not my job" or "I'm going to take my break" bullshit when the work left to be done is the critical issue, they are reminded without any minced words that the RR didn't come looking for them. I wasn't given a job, I was hired to do a job. By accepting I made a deal and expect myself to hold up my end of the bargain. The RR knew when they hired me that they were hiring me for a union position and what it was going to cost them for the work I do, and my paycheck has never been late. We both come out good on the deal.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

I grew up in a union house. My Pop started working for $2.35 an hour in Nor-Cal in 1971. That was a jump up from the $1.65 he was getting in LA. Them sky scrapers in LA, and San Francisco and Oakland, he worked to lay out, frame, and lath many of them. As I grew up, I saw what his pay went from and what it provided us for his hard skilled labor. A two room apartment(partially the fault of custody battle lawyers) to a three bedroom home in a nice subdivision, well used of course. His rise from worker to Business Agent was at the request of a dieing Business Manager to cover down. When it was brought before the membership for voting that he take the position after the former mangers death, it was unanimous. He worked hard and also long hours, many nights after hours since guys couldn't call until they got home.
He also went into the Nor-Cal Apprenticeship Schools for the trades at the same time, so he taught the skill sets once a month to the union apprentices. He then worked to merger the smaller Drywall Lather's unions of the North Bay into one large union that held more pull with bigger jobs. From there he rose to the top of his union not through bullying anyone, bu through working hard to make small step improvements to pay, school quality and training, Overtime and Holiday Pay, Health care, and work place safety. Not one motion was ever made in secrecey or for self benefit. He was elected each and every time if not unanamously, at least by a over 90% margin with one or two casting no votes.
His work to make a better life for the common man was recognized when the Oakland Labor Center(over near Tactical Interventions Specialties) was named after him, and the Labor Union man he worked with to get where they were.
From the 70's to the 90's the working skilled Lather was able to make more money in a week than a sloppy shirt and tie wearing office boy in San Francisco's Financial District. I know this because I was a 75% Apprentice welding frame work for the Mosconi Center. Took one of those smart ass mofof's paycheck too when he got cocky and said htey made mroe than us. My one week check was more than his two week check. I busted my ass for each and every dollar not because I liked working hard, but because I worked harder than anyone else on that job because the standard I was under was tougher."Hey that's Rich's boy, he was a Marine, bet he knows how to do a lot" yeah, a whole lot that I learned from my Pop but had to do better than everyone else because I was his boy. When DesertStorm hit, work went South. I spent the better part of two years on the out of work list before I said screw it GI Billed my ass back to school.
The union wasn't a bad thing then, at least not for me, Panty 6 and Riki. We ate decent, had a little two bedroom house we rented, car ran good, and we actually could save about $50 a month(which usually went the way of me or the kid getting afu playing hard when something broke or got sprained) but life wasn't bad. Union worked right, at least in our little part of the world. You shoulda seen when the Carpenter's Union, UBC came to town to 'merge' the Nor-Cal Lathers Local 68L. Took them guys four years to get it done because of one tenatious Old School Lather Union President. My Pop told them to go pound sand three of those years because their offer was less than what we had. Not until they could match our contract would they take control of Lather's 68L, the membership of 168L, 268L, 109L, and many others from the Oregon Border to San Jose, all under one roof, on the same sheet of music Nor-Cal wide.
Some unions are fine, some are bad, but our house was always union....until he hired those wetback sumbitches to clean his yard out, and you bet your ass I give him shit on that every other time I talk to him pn the phone.

I get the frustration Mike sees. It is that kind of stupid shit that gives the union trust over to the company because the membership will not risk losing a check, or a job to walk hte line. With great risk comes reward, with no risk, all is lost

 

[Indiansinger]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

With regard to labor unions, this old addage applies:

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Just my 2 cents.

Indiansinger

 

[Longguns]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

That old addage applies to everything and everyone!!!

 

[littletoes]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

That addage applies to whenever people elect leaders......sad, ain't it?

Don't blame the worlds labor problems on Unions. Unions were formed because of the problem.

My Dad was raised fairly anti-Union, but when he described to me 4 Horse Shoer's (Ferriers), that banded together all in agreement to not do any work for anyone that hadn't paid any of the others.....I told him they just formed a Union.

Ain't that funny as hell.

 

[Bryan27]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Roger C. Carpenter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With regard to labor unions, this old addage applies:

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Just my 2 cents.

Indiansinger
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I'd agree. Before labor unions, companies had absolute power and to say they were corrupt and abusive towards labor would be an understatement. When labor unions gain too much power, they will bankrupt a company. The question comes down to this, how long would it take for a company that currently has a union labor force to become corrupt and abusive towards labor if the union just dissolved one day. How long would it take a union to ruin a company if they had them by the balls.

 

[C.K]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

As far as I'm concerned Chrysler and GM are ruined by the unions and our government did nobody but the unions a favor with the bail out. How long did it take? IMO 20 or 30 years of inflated wages and benefit packages.

 

[Super Trucker]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as I'm concerned Chrysler and GM are ruined by the unions and our government did nobody but the unions a favor with the bail out. How long did it take? IMO 20 or 30 years of inflated wages and benefit packages. </div></div>

Have you ever worked in a auto factory?

I am a teamster and really dislike the teamsters union, but I formed my opinion by myself, after doing the job for years.
For the record I make less money and have less bennies than some non union shops in the area. But I have a job and can feed my family.

I have made deliveries to some auto plants and have to say that when it is 120 degrees in the plant I don't think they make inflated wages. Now do I agree with what the UAW has done NO! But to make a broad statement and say the workers make too much money for the work they do is not fair if you have never done the job, IMHO.

 

[border_reiver]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

I've worked in extremely hot factories, not fun. Doing labor intensive jobs. I've also been to auto factories and other large manufacturing places of work, and cringed watching the guys milk the teat on the job, silently counting how many I would have fired. Yer bloody right they're overpaid, not by wage, wage is what it is, but the benefit package is set along the same lines of social security. It can never be paid. WTF are we Greece where you work for a company for 20 yrs and are set for life? Where your job is protected no matter your performance, just for the fact you've been there 'x' years? Hell no, every day you walk into work you owe the company either your sweat or your knowledge, and maybe they'll get lucky and have a little of both.

 

[C.K]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Trucker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as I'm concerned Chrysler and GM are ruined by the unions and our government did nobody but the unions a favor with the bail out. How long did it take? IMO 20 or 30 years of inflated wages and benefit packages. </div></div>

Have you ever worked in a auto factory?

I am a teamster and really dislike the teamsters union, but I formed my opinion by myself, after doing the job for years.
For the record I make less money and have less bennies than some non union shops in the area. But I have a job and can feed my family.

I have made deliveries to some auto plants and have to say that when it is 120 degrees in the plant I don't think they make inflated wages. Now do I agree with what the UAW has done NO! But to make a broad statement and say the workers make too much money for the work they do is not fair if you have never done the job, IMHO.
</div></div>


Nope, I never have been part of any union and never will be. Having said that my wife has been part of a union in the past when she worked for a company. I have family members that retired from field(janesville plant) 25 years and out full Benni's, retire at 44. What a fucking joke, while I and 45% of the so called "privileged" Americans that actually pay income tax bust our ass paying for it(bail out). Its horse shit.

 

[srtsam]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

I gotta chime in here about my experience. i previously worked for a company was sub contracted to process packages for the USPS. We were a hard working group and always strived to make quotas and meet deadlines, etc.......after awhile the Post office realised people are sending less and less stamped mail so looked to take back its packages(maily priority mail).
The first year the unions were not allowed to come in but petitioned to solicate workers outside before, during and after work. Work production remained good as did the spirits of everybody. after the year the members were allowed to vote the union in if they wanted. Needless to say, with all the promises the unions made, we had 3 unions at the same plant within a few short days. Our workforce tripled because certain unions can only do certain jobs and therby needed over 3 times more people to do the jobs they had all along. It was a friggin joke, people that once worked well were now pieces of shit and the ones that tried to fight the good fight found themselves alone and either finally joined the union ranks or simply left a gov't paying job!!! The exhisting pieces of shit became the shop stewards and really did nothing.
Well, after a few years of this, the plant was closed down and the people were either offered jobs up to 500 miles away or simply let go. I could go on and on about how big a POS our mail system is, but this little experiment showed me exactly what unions do to people. It would take a great deal for me to side with a union ever again.

 

[Sportin Wood]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

GO TEAMSTERS 174!!!!!

 

[sgj2025]

Re: Another Reason I Hate Unions

Wow...Just about all I can say! 40 hr work week, health care, a safe working enviroment. Just a few things to think about. Alot of people have benefited from the Unions whether they are Union or not, what are grandfathers fought for has become the Norm for most companies, including the Non-Union ones. Alot of people died bringing us a decent work place, decent wages. I am Union, I am not fat, nor am I lazy. I lace them up and work hard everyday. Read your history, do you have any idea how ugly things had to get to bring about change in corporate america in the first part of the 20th century!! I do not take the things that they fought so hard for, to bring us the quality of life we enjoy, lightly. Nor do I spend the freedom, I so dearly enjoy, without remembering the people who gave their lives to bring it to me. Guess what, They are the one and the same. Maybe they were the greatest generation ever, because I dont know if this has the mud in their ass to ever duplicate what they did for our next generation.