Rifle Scopes Another Vortex down
- Thread starter mzvarner
- Start date
Is your name Rusty Duncan? Are you related to Rusty Duncan? That would explain a lot if so.
What convinced me is your maturity and grammar.
This dude is trolling every single vortex thread on the hide. Only here to stir up shit. On another thread he claims all scopes “us boys” can afford are made under one roof and that the AMG is not American made.
never had a schmidt or NF or Kahles have to go back, sent my vortex AMG back on day 1 as the turrents didnt work, sent quite a few leupolds back as they tracked like crap - both companies sent em back "fixed" and were pleasant to deal with - but spending a few k on something only to return it within days - well i loose confidence and still to those i havent ever returned.
Yea that’s why I was wondering what this guys issue is, I checked out his other post, like the one about giving rides to the green berets in the Blackhawks. Sounds reminiscent of someone who was a swat sniper or whatever he said that he was.
Trust me I understand the confidence issue. I honestly cannot say firsthand weather NF, Kahles, SB, TT, Vortex, or any of the other high end scopes are better reliability wise than the other because all I have owned are vortex and I had a Razor Gen 1 fail in a match (mentioned above). I definitely don’t have as much confidence in it as I did before but my issue is I cannot justify the cost of buying one of the other high end scopes when I can get a vortex gen 2 razor at a lot cheaper, almost half the price. I’m not saying they are not worth it and honestly I would love to own a SB or NF ATACR or Kahles but personally I cannot justify the cost especially when you hear about them failing just like the vortex. Since I don’t own anything besides vortex I just have to take the words of people on here and pretty as far as I can tell everyone has a high end scope failure story of a different brand.
If that were true they wouldn't be in business.
The Tiborasaurus Rex video where he says the Primary Arms is better than the Nightforce ATACR because the Nightforce broke when he jumped on it? Yeah....great source for info
That guy talks more than a woman. 78 min videos about nothing. He has more self importance than Obama and barely understands how to shoot, let alone proper form or basics. His opinion has about the same weight as Gecko 45......
I toured Vortex's facility last year in Middleton, WI. I personally saw the AMG manufacturing and assembly floor. I did not see parts being anodized (done by another company for Vortex), I did not see the glass being manufactured (same), nor the reticle (which is German made now - only non US part in the scope). I saw every other step in the manufacturing process. This guy's full of shit.
I thought part of the AMG's big hoopla was that Vortex was producing their own glass for it. Am I wrong on this?
Hmmm...I was under the impression that it wasn't that they made the glass per se, but how it was fitted into the erector assembly. IIRC, it had to do with rotating the len(ses) to correct for the slight (but always present) imperfection in the glass, so that all the lenses ended up correcting each other's imperfections.
I thought I saw some mention of it in one of Frank's videos, back when the AMG first came out. Maybe @koshkin could enlighten us...
I thought I saw some mention of it in one of Frank's videos, back when the AMG first came out. Maybe @koshkin could enlighten us...
I've seen it couched various ways on different sites, but even Vortex says "Nearly every component in the AMG, from the index-matched lenses to smallest screw, is engineered, machined, and assembled in the USA. The only component from outside the USA is the German manufactured reticle."
I don't for sure remember the particulars, but my recollection from the tour is that Vortex spec'ed the optical formula of the lenses, and has them ground and coated by a US based company. They do not own an optical glass manufacturing plant. Except for possibly Zeiss, I don't think any other scope manufacturer does, either - they source their lenses from manufacturers in Germany, Japan, or China, for the most part. "Index-matched lenses" is what MarinePMI is getting at. It's not rocket science to do, but it's a step that likely gets skipped on lower quality scopes.
Hi everyone, this is Dave at Vortex,
davere is on the right track.
The complete system of the AMG (optical and mechanical) was 100% engineered in-house at Vortex Optics in Middleton, WI. All of the lenses are ground, polished, and coated in the USA to our engineered specifications and design. We test the lenses to ensure they meet our design and specification criteria. The reticle is the only part not made in the USA but rather made in Germany. The reticle is a wafer of glass 4mm thick (actually two wafers, each 2mm thick, cemented together) with the pattern etched onto the glass using a photo-lithography process.
Just about every part that can be machined is machined, in-house, at Vortex Optics in Middleton, WI. There is one simple screw type which is purchased off the shelf. Every other part and screw is a complex/custom part so we machine it ourselves to ensure quality and design adherence. Of course, we also assemble the entire scope in Wisconsin as well.
Hopefully that clears things up a bit. Thanks!
Dave
davere is on the right track.
The complete system of the AMG (optical and mechanical) was 100% engineered in-house at Vortex Optics in Middleton, WI. All of the lenses are ground, polished, and coated in the USA to our engineered specifications and design. We test the lenses to ensure they meet our design and specification criteria. The reticle is the only part not made in the USA but rather made in Germany. The reticle is a wafer of glass 4mm thick (actually two wafers, each 2mm thick, cemented together) with the pattern etched onto the glass using a photo-lithography process.
Just about every part that can be machined is machined, in-house, at Vortex Optics in Middleton, WI. There is one simple screw type which is purchased off the shelf. Every other part and screw is a complex/custom part so we machine it ourselves to ensure quality and design adherence. Of course, we also assemble the entire scope in Wisconsin as well.
Hopefully that clears things up a bit. Thanks!
Dave
Even more of a reason to buy the AMG, support American jobs.
Correct me if I'm wrong but within the last 2 years or so S&B started to offer a 30 year transferable warranty to compete with the competition such as Vortex, Bushnell, Steiner, Burris etc?
I agree with you 100%. About 7-8 years ago I was pulling my deer gun up to my tree stand for a morning hunt. For some unknown reason the line snapped and she fell about 15' scope down first. Damaged the objective hood of my Viper scope and I sent it in.
I dropped it off at USPS on a Monday around 4:30pm. Got a call from Vortex Thursday night saying it's cosmetics only and it tracks fine so they gave me an option to send my scope back to me or a new unit. I chose new. Got the new scope Tuesday PM. 6 business days which at least 2 of them was with USPS. From that point on I became a Vortex fan. Not going to lie, I still want to try to own a NF, Kahles, S&B, USO etc but my hear is with Vortex Optics.
The accidental damage combined with mil discount is why I have more vortex than anything else. To date I've had one failure out of several scopes, a diamondback HP, the side focus stopped working. It was mounted in a very crude accumounts mount/rings for a PU Mosin Nagant. I should have lapped those rings. When I took the scope off there was a groove cut into the scope tube. Vortex had a replacement within a week, with a friendly note covering ring torque values.
I am not yet at the point where I can eat $2000-$3000 on a scope that is damaged by accident. If I ran competitions or were going on an expensive hunting trips, maybe I would feel different.
From everything I have learned I have come to a conclusion if vortex could put the gen ii razor on a diet and lose 20 ounces and maintain the same quality they would sell a hell of a lot of scopes. Is this more or less what the amg accomplishes or is there more to it than that.
That's basically what the AMG accomplishes. It would be even better if the same mag range as the GenII was in the AMG, but the same quality is there. The weight reduction and reticle (EBR-7B) were the two primary reasons I went with an AMG over the GenII.
So I had to dig this post up. I was looking at some reloading products at one of our Local gun stores. I pick up a PST sitting on the counter and look through it, there was no sight picture, it was terrible. The employee told me to give a good look at the lense in the eyepiece, it had “popped” out.
The owner of the scope then walked in. I was suspecting a .375 CT or .338 LM to have done this, but nope, it was a .308.
900.00 scope with lenses that fall out with the recoil impulse of a .308. Remember though, it’s got an unlimited lifetime warranty!
The owner of the scope then walked in. I was suspecting a .375 CT or .338 LM to have done this, but nope, it was a .308.
900.00 scope with lenses that fall out with the recoil impulse of a .308. Remember though, it’s got an unlimited lifetime warranty!
I'd rather not pay more money for a product to have the stupidity of others warrantied and in the same regard I've got no problem paying for my own stupidity instead of others paying a higher product cost to basically have a zero deductible insurance policy.
You are not paying some significantly higher price for the warranty. You wouldn't be paying hundreds less.
Other companies have started to copy this policy as well after Vortex pioneered it. No significant price increases in their products. Don't make some huge drama out of it.
Go NF or go home
Reliability is the tip top of any requirement for a firearm or scope. Unless your just playing unimportant games I guess.
Reliability is the tip top of any requirement for a firearm or scope. Unless your just playing unimportant games I guess.
Because there has never been a problem with NF scopes. Right.
Now that's funny right there. Never. Right. Lol
It's still added cost no matter how small and it all adds up. I'd much rather see that added cost go to higher quality components than covering someone knocking their rifle off of something and trashing the scope. That's not my problem.
Woooo, lowest bid contractor-spec.There is nothing better than mil-spec...
It's no more than any basic warranty. You are thinking that it's added on for this particular advantage. If they stopped doing it the scopes would be the same price and same quality. You are really making more of it than there is. Guess you won't use any of the other scope makers that have this warranty either?
This would actually add quite a bit of cost to their lower tier optics. The reason they get away selling at some of their prices if because they save money on the front end with less QC and such.
So the options for mid to lower tier scopes are: pay much more upfront for less options and have a slightly less chance of having to return and item
or
pay less up front and have close to the same chance of needing to use a warranty.
Bottom line is, if you are doing something be it a real world scenario, or on a once in a lifetime hunt, you don't spend ~1k on your optics and expect them no never fail at an inopportune time.
Ugh. My trolling skills aren't up to par with you guys.
Damnit, you're not supposed to tell them you're trolling. That's the whole point!
That's pretty fucking stupid. Intentional destruction isn't covered by vortex either, as it shouldn't be.
from their webiste:
The VIP Warranty does not cover loss, theft, deliberate damage or cosmetic damage that does not hinder the performance of the product.
Try and get them to fix an accidental damaged item. Hit or miss and you will likely pay for it. No doubt that Vortex will cover it.
LOL.....you may want to work on picking up when someone is over exaggerating to make a point. Vortex, like them or hate them, set a far higher standard than Leupold(who has excellent customer service).
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making a point with a lie is not really making a point.
"LOL" you just got called out on your bullshit and are trying to cover it up.
Why are the facts so difficult to face when they stand on their own in broad daylight? The number of "my scope broke" threads on this website alone can give someone a pretty good look at the percentages.
I've personally owned scopes from virtually all of the top manufacturers, and have had them fail. All of them (save one). I've seen them fail many more times in classes. There isn't a reason to get emotional about the facts. I don't get upset when a low end product demonstrates that it's a low end product. I get upset when a high end product demonstrates it's a low end or mid range product. When a few of my S&B's had issues, it upset me. When I had issues with my nightforces, it upset me. When I had issues with my USO's, it upset me. When I had issues with my bushnell and vortex products... I wasn't really surprised.
Yet these days, I'm not surprised when ANY of them fail. Tangent Theta is literally the only manufacturer that I haven't had any issue with. Having owned and used as many scopes as I have from so many different manufacturers... that's really saying something.
It's incredible to me just how many people will put a stamp of approval or disapproval on a company or their products when they haven't experienced enough of the competing products to draw any conclusions.
It is also incredible to me that people continuously want someone else to be responsible for them. Why should a scope manufacturer be expected to replace a scope that you threw off a cliff, on purpose or by accident? The simultaneous belief that no one is paying for that, is completely void of all rational thought. Though I suspect it doesn't happen very often. Most folks tend to treat expensive equipment quite well, and manufacturers have now moved to considering this "accident replacement" a cost of doing business. They would rather absorb the cost of a couple a scopes in a year, than to be seen saying they won't replace it. The bluff never being called in any meaningful way, they can easily do it. Vortex gives many scopes away on PRS prize tables, so what's a couple given to guys that can't keep control of their rifles?
The real issue seems to be the accepted risk. Some folks simply can't afford the kind of money they spend on this hobby. So any and all protection they can get for their investment sways their purchasing decision heavily. The focus is constantly shifted to warranty in all products. People buy cars for $50,000 and feel lucky if it lasts through the 5yr warranty, and lose 60-70% of it's value at best upon that timeline. People spend $1000 on a rifle scope and expect it to last several lifetimes with no issues experienced along the way.
You can't have both cheap cost and top quality. That is not a reality of this world. If you want to avoid warranty claims, you have to purchase the right products... and those products are never cheap.
I've personally owned scopes from virtually all of the top manufacturers, and have had them fail. All of them (save one). I've seen them fail many more times in classes. There isn't a reason to get emotional about the facts. I don't get upset when a low end product demonstrates that it's a low end product. I get upset when a high end product demonstrates it's a low end or mid range product. When a few of my S&B's had issues, it upset me. When I had issues with my nightforces, it upset me. When I had issues with my USO's, it upset me. When I had issues with my bushnell and vortex products... I wasn't really surprised.
Yet these days, I'm not surprised when ANY of them fail. Tangent Theta is literally the only manufacturer that I haven't had any issue with. Having owned and used as many scopes as I have from so many different manufacturers... that's really saying something.
It's incredible to me just how many people will put a stamp of approval or disapproval on a company or their products when they haven't experienced enough of the competing products to draw any conclusions.
It is also incredible to me that people continuously want someone else to be responsible for them. Why should a scope manufacturer be expected to replace a scope that you threw off a cliff, on purpose or by accident? The simultaneous belief that no one is paying for that, is completely void of all rational thought. Though I suspect it doesn't happen very often. Most folks tend to treat expensive equipment quite well, and manufacturers have now moved to considering this "accident replacement" a cost of doing business. They would rather absorb the cost of a couple a scopes in a year, than to be seen saying they won't replace it. The bluff never being called in any meaningful way, they can easily do it. Vortex gives many scopes away on PRS prize tables, so what's a couple given to guys that can't keep control of their rifles?
The real issue seems to be the accepted risk. Some folks simply can't afford the kind of money they spend on this hobby. So any and all protection they can get for their investment sways their purchasing decision heavily. The focus is constantly shifted to warranty in all products. People buy cars for $50,000 and feel lucky if it lasts through the 5yr warranty, and lose 60-70% of it's value at best upon that timeline. People spend $1000 on a rifle scope and expect it to last several lifetimes with no issues experienced along the way.
You can't have both cheap cost and top quality. That is not a reality of this world. If you want to avoid warranty claims, you have to purchase the right products... and those products are never cheap.
As far as warranty goes, genrally that tells you how confident the manufacturer is in their product.
Uh, no I don't think so. What it shows is a confidence in quality in relation to profit margin. It's a sliding rule....
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