Rifle Scopes Another Vortex down

#51
Ive sent two S&Bs, 1Kahles, and a Minox in for services because of something failing. I have had two Gen2 Razors and an AMG that haven’t given me a bit of problems.

I’ll continue to buy Vortex and I’ll also continue to buy S&B. Complaining about these things is like bashing ford for a battery going dead or an alternator failure. Stuff is going to break, just be thankful Vortex covers everything up to and including stupidity with their warranty.

My $.02
 
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#53
Birddog6424 said:
That's just crazy Morgan.. How on earth have you broken that many scopes?

Hell, I rolled my ATV over on my rifle and Bushnell Sportview scope a bunch of years back. I re-zeroed and was back in the game...

In my entire lifetime of bunches of days spent hunting large and small game all over the western US and shooting I have broken 3 scopes. One inexpensive Bushnell, a Leupy MK8 in a 3 gun match, and 3 Vortex (in 2 years). And I forgive the Bushnell, my horse broke it, because he was a dumbass... I also forgive the Leupy, I threw it into the dump box too hard and broke the top turret, because I was a dumbass... The Vortex's just broke. No reasons, no hard use or abuse..
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i havent, but i happen to be around a ton of them on a regular basis, im usually one of the guys asked for help or to check things out when something isnt working right

kahles - tracking issues and a zero holding issue
schmidt - return to zero issue and a holding zero issue
nightforce - something broke inside making the image blurry af and unusable
bushnell - parallax knob inop (personal scope), turrets binding randomly
minox - (was actually my personal scope, went down in round 2 of a competition that likely cost me $1-3k) zero shifted, couldnt get it to hold zero again after that....i still run a minox on my main comp rifle
vortex - tracking/zero issues (multiple times this was tracked back to set screws not being tight enough)...ive also seen one dropped on top of the scope bell that bounced off a table, then the bench, then the ground lol (at the range day prior to a PRS match no less) that needed to be rezero'd and was right back ready to rock, as well

my point was, if youre around enough at the right times, it ALL has problems...lots of time its user induced so i take everything with a grain of salt...i recently moved my minox/rings to a new rifle that had very little clearance between the barrel and scope bell...but it was visible clearance and near the tenon, so if you would have bet me $1k i would have said theres no way it would touch when fired...a handful of rounds later, and issues holding zero...there was a tiny mark on the bottom of the scope and on top of the barrel...moved the scope/rings to my AI, worked perfectly, and still does...went to higher rings and put it back on the same problem rifle, problems went away and it shoots lights out

the past 2-3 yrs i shot 1-3 local club matches per month with 30-60 shooters each from multiple regions in TX, and i see the LARGE # of vortex scopes being used without issue so i know the problem isnt as bad as the internet makes it out to be...i burnt out the barrel in matches/practice on a 223 running a Viper PST that never had a problem...hell, my gen 2 razor was used so much you can barely read the markings on the turret in places anymore, hasnt ever missed a beat
 
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#54
kansas said:
And yet more Razors have been used by the top 100 PRS shooters than any other brand for the last two years.
Click to expand...
People should be banned when they post shit like this. As if anyone gives a fuck about gamers and what sponsored people shoot. Everyone with an IQ over 80 knows the razor is a very good scope and at the lower end of the cost spectrum. If S&b, TT or khales could be had for sub 2k(which can easily be done with vortex razor) I bet you would see alot more of them on top of rifles as well. The poster talking about cost of warranty/service is spotty on. Everything has a cost and if vortex had to pay even half of the retail price of their cheap Asian imports ( razor excluded, hence why I said you must look at vortex as two separate entities) they would have been out of business a long time ago. I know people that have had PST scopes replaced 2 or 3 or more times due to defects. Hard to make money unless they cost a small fraction of what they retail for. It's basic economics and common sense
 
#55
Well I'm with you on the Razor line fellas. It's a great product. I'll always speak well of it.

But between my own experiences and all the issues I saw with the PST line up at the gun shop I worked at for nearly 3 years, folks have a legitimate axe to grind there.

A good friend of mine built a brand new custom .260. Couldn't get it to shoot worth a damn. Long story short, it was the brand new out of the box PST we sold him. We swapped it for him. The new one broke on the first stage of his first ever PRS match. He got his money back and bought an ERS. Oddly enough, when he brought it back the first time, I told him all 3 of mine were working great..

I suppose that's how karma works... ;)
 
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#57
So is this the thread that's going to derail a company's warranty system because a budget scope wasn't giving top tier performance?

If you want that, go buy it. Burris has the same warranty. Curious as to how much their XTR IIs cost. Im sure if it came out, people here would balk and be like "Ermuhgawd!!! I r nawt buying that RAWWWRRRRRR!!!! TRASH$&#&!&!#&!\%!! Herpy derp derp!#$!" When you buy any product, even a car, there's always a reason why there's a good warranty. Company has to have wiggle room. That's just the nature of business.
 
#58
Dsparil said:
So is this the thread that's going to derail a company's warranty system because a budget scope wasn't giving top tier performance?

If you want that, go buy it. Burris has the same warranty. Curious as to how much their XTR IIs cost. Im sure if it came out, people here would balk and be like "Ermuhgawd!!! I r nawt buying that RAWWWRRRRRR!!!! TRASH$&#&!&!#&!\%!! Herpy derp derp!#$!" When you buy any product, even a car, there's always a reason why there's a good warranty. Company has to have wiggle room. That's just the nature of business.
Click to expand...

Hence, SWFA lol
 
#59
Bender said:
SWFA 3-15 is your cheap scope (<$700)answer. Period.
Click to expand...

They break too. I sold one to a friend, months later his dope wouldn't line up anymore and we couldn't figure out the problem. Next time I showed up to our shootfest, as I rounded the corner, he looked up at me and said come see this, the parallax knob was laying on the bench.

The other two I've owned worked fine except the parallax focus doesn't focus well past 700Y and that was with the 3 of them. I have to dial the diopter out quite a ways, maybe that has something to do with it??? I haven't had this problem with any other scope and I've had many.

Seen some threads in the past with reticles falling down in them as well.

Just sayin, there is no answer, you just put your money down and hope for the best with any brand.
 
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#61
First, I'd like to make a shout out to Dave for his support on this site; it takes some balls and self control to walk into some of these bash fest threads.

I have several Vortex scopes, some cheap (Strike Eagle for example) and some high end (x2 Razor Gen2). Never had a problem that wasn't resolved with a quick phone call (when a company rep gives you their personal cell phone number, and walks you through things on a Saturday morning, that says a lot about their commitment to their customers; a shout out to Scott Parks @Vortex for his time and patience). I also help run our local PRS style monthly matches, so I see a LOT of gear getting run, a lot of times, hard. I haven't seen a PST Gen II yet with problems. That's not saying I won't, I've seen issues with many things (don't get me started on Rem700 bolts coming off, and RPR's with rails and/or barrel threads so out of spec you wonder how it made it past any QC).

Shit breaks. Deal with it. The more you pay, the less shit breaks (generally speaking). If you buy an entry level LR optic, and we have all been there, you get an entry level optic. Meaning it works, has reasonably good glass and some bells and whistles. The thing is not going to be bomb proof. Period. It will not have the same time and attention spent on it as something twice (or more) the cost. Now that being said, and "entry" level LR scope is around a grand. That's not chump change for many folks, so for many some additional assurances are needed to make them feel more secure in handing over their hard earned cash. Hence the Vortex Warranty. You know, the one that pretty much FORCED other companies to do the same (funny that Burris now has it, and yet years before their "limited warranty" was hotly debated as being shit). They saw the writing on the wall (as others have; EOTech, Minox, SIG, etc.), as well as the logic behind it, and have followed suit. A win/win for all of us shooters (in my book).

As to some of the comments within this thread...

Shit happens, deal with it. Shit breaks. Was it during your planned hunt? And you didn't bring a back up rig? Sound like 7 P's to me (Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance). Two is one, one is none. Own it.

Has it happened to me? Yep. That's where I learned to pack extra equipment if it's something (like a hunt of a lifetime) I want to guarantee being able to do. A painful lesson ($700 out of state tag, travel, hotel, food, etc.), but one that I only had to learn once. I suggest some of you think about that.

Birddog, I'd be careful stepping into these threads as Burris rep/sponsor; it doesn't make Burris look real upstanding. I'm not saying you're not telling anything that isn't the truth of what you've experienced, just saying that some may perceive it as being a petty way to ding a competitor's line of products. You know how it is on these threads, with the XTR II glass debate that comes up now and again (which many of us have PM'ed to each other about, to be honest but also be understanding that it is what it is; i.e. just don't comment unless someone starts saying "it's as good as a S&B" BS), so you should probably sit back and let Vortex's rep handle it (I don't recall Dave stepping into any of the XTR II glass debates either). Just something to think about...though I (and many others) do appreciate Burris also having a rep on this site.

Primus, people shouldn't be banned for using PRS as an example of trust in quality, durability and functionality of a scope (that's about the dumbest comment I've read in awhile). PRS guns get run hard, and often take a beating. Your comment belies either an ignorance of that fact, or that of a bloviated tough guy internet keyboard commando's opinions that are absolute, indignant and often completely wrong.

In closing, I'll echo Morgan's comment "everything breaks" (says the guy who's $4k Hensoldt 45 got dumped over by the wind a few weeks back, while on a fully extended tripod, and landed on the ocular housing, on the concrete shooting line; and no, their warrant isn't "no fault"; again, shit happens and shit breaks, deal with it). If you don't believe things happen and things break, than you probably haven't been around this stuff long enough...
 
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#62
I appreciate Dave stepping in here too. Reminds me of something about “The man in the arena...”.

I have had the opportunity to stop into the Vortex facility in WI several times. Their commitment to Customer Service (upper case on purpose) is evident from the second you walk in the door. I’ve experienced few like it. I have a number of their products, both upper tier and lower, and have never had an issue. Sometimes it’s easy to loose sight of the technologies we are dealing with. Whether is a doppler radar, or a precision optic....take a step back just 10years and see where it has gone. I have a K Series 4x on the shelf from my youth. Every once in a while I take a look at it...look through it. Perspective.
 
#63
Good on you, Dave. Thanks for being on this forum!

I actually just leveraged Vortex's service department for my Razor AMG - looks like I managed to overtighten the turret set screws, and now the zero "slips" back into the old setting as I tighten the screws. Clearly my fault. They're sending me a part to try swapping, and if that doesn't work, they'll correct it via a trip through the service department. I'm trying to avoid having to send it in right now.

I visited Vortex in March, last year, while I was in Madison, WI on business. Dave isn't lying about them being shooting enthusiasts. Pretty much every guy manning the phones had one or more rifles in his cube. Very cool office environment.
 
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#64
Primus said:
People should be banned when they post shit like this. As if anyone gives a fuck about gamers and what sponsored people shoot. Everyone with an IQ over 80 knows the razor is a very good scope and at the lower end of the cost spectrum. If S&b, TT or khales could be had for sub 2k(which can easily be done with vortex razor) I bet you would see alot more of them on top of rifles as well. The poster talking about cost of warranty/service is spotty on. Everything has a cost and if vortex had to pay even half of the retail price of their cheap Asian imports ( razor excluded, hence why I said you must look at vortex as two separate entities) they would have been out of business a long time ago. I know people that have had PST scopes replaced 2 or 3 or more times due to defects. Hard to make money unless they cost a small fraction of what they retail for. It's basic economics and common sense
Click to expand...

The Razor isn’t the top scope in PRS because Vortex is sponsoring everyone that is using it. They’re running them because they’re tough sons a bitches. These guys are being sponsored so can afford a SB or whatever but are shooting Razors. If you look back three years SB led the pack but now it’s Razor. And PRS matches put a strain on gear and apparently the Razor has held up. Three years ago you’d see a few Razors at local matches but now more than half of the locals are running a Razor. To each their own but it’s pretty obvious by the shear number of them out there that the Gen 2 Razor is a reliable workhorse with excellent glass.
 
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#65
Another thing you want to keep in ind is that in terms of sales, Vortex is the largest company in the sports optics world right now. If you ship more product than anyone else, statistically, you will ship more duds than anyone else, but you also ship more of the good stuff than anyone else.

ILya
 
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#66
Last visit, they were insisting I bring my spastic 90lb GSP into the waiting area while my purcashed was finalized. I declined only because the thought of him bouncing around the office made my credit card cringe.

Solid folks.
 
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#67
Du
kansas said:
The Razor isn’t the top scope in PRS because Vortex is sponsoring everyone that is using it. They’re running them because they’re tough sons a bitches. These guys are being sponsored so can afford a SB or whatever but are shooting Razors. If you look back three years SB led the pack but now it’s Razor. And PRS matches put a strain on gear and apparently the Razor has held up. Three years ago you’d see a few Razors at local matches but now more than half of the locals are running a Razor. To each their own but it’s pretty obvious by the shear number of them out there that the Gen 2 Razor is a reliable workhorse with excellent glass.
Click to expand...
We got another autist on our hands incapable of reading comprehension. No one cares about what prs shooters use, litterly no one. (Except a fellow autist or poser)

It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes and you hear " but it has electrolytes" in the background.......
 
#68
Primus said:
Du

We got another autist on our hands incapable of reading comprehension. No one cares about what prs shooters use, litterly no one. (Except a fellow autist or poser)

It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes and you hear " but it has electrolytes" in the background.......
Click to expand...

dumbest thing ive read in 2018, congrats...still early in the year though, keep up the good work
 
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#69
facepalm.jpg
 
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#75
MarinePMI said:
Birddog, I'd be careful stepping into these threads as Burris rep/sponsor; it doesn't make Burris look real upstanding. I'm not saying you're not telling anything that isn't the truth of what you've experienced, just saying that some may perceive it as being a petty way to ding a competitor's line of products. You know how it is on these threads, with the XTR II glass debate that comes up now and again (which many of us have PM'ed to each other about, to be honest but also be understanding that it is what it is; i.e. just don't comment unless someone starts saying "it's as good as a S&B" BS), so you should probably sit back and let Vortex's rep handle it (I don't recall Dave stepping into any of the XTR II glass debates either). Just something to think about...though I (and many others) do appreciate Burris also having a rep on this site.

.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the heads up.

I have no axe to grind with Vortex, just the PST. I felt incredibly jipped by the product. If I were lying or sensationalizing to bash someone's product, that would be one thing. But all I'm doing is sharing my experiences just like every other poster on here. I've made an effort in every post to make it clear that I own and use Vortex products. I have their binoculars, their spotter and their scopes. As well as tons of tshirts and hats ;) . The Razor line of products from Vortex is as good a value is there is on the market.

So I've made an effort to be fair in my comments.

But your point is well taken Marine, as always you are a voice of reason. So I'll end on this note. My experiences and opinions aren't indicative of Burris optics, they're simply my experiences and opinions. But the perception of me bashing a competitor may be there, so I will hold those a little closer in the future. My issues truly aren't with Vortex the company, I have plenty of respect for them. We in this industry owe them a lot. I think we have them to thank for raising the bar in customer service and making it nearly an industry standard.
 
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#77
I think every vortex I have owned has broken, but so has every burris. One time the Vortex was my fault and they replaced it still.

I had one SB break 3 times in a row. Good luck with the other 10 or so. Same with nightforce - had great luck reliability wise. I have seen them all take a dook either directly or in my group of folks I shoot with.

Lesson learned? Buy the best fucking optic you can, because even the good ones may not live long.
 
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#80
MarinePMI said:
Primus, people shouldn't be banned for using PRS as an example of trust in quality, durability and functionality of a scope (that's about the dumbest comment I've read in awhile). PRS guns get run hard, and often take a beating. Your comment belies either an ignorance of that fact, or that of a bloviated tough guy internet keyboard commando's opinions that are absolute, indignant and often completely wrong.
Click to expand...

Can we just BAN Primus??
 
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#81
Three things break scopes - impact, recoil, and spinning the controls.

If the scope has a manufacturers defect, the three killers can almost immediately blast a scope. If it doesn’t then it becomes a matter of time.

The nice thing about PRS is it has more folks recoiling, impacting, and spinning knobs on more optics than ever
 
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#83
The original PST was a nightmare and really turned me off of Vortex for several years. Never used a Razor. The new Gen 2 PST 5-25 really has my interest as it checks a lot of boxes I'm looking for in a scope and the price is right. Very tempted to roll the dice with one.
 
#84
STS45 said:
The original PST was a nightmare and really turned me off of Vortex for several years. Never used a Razor. The new Gen 2 PST 5-25 really has my interest as it checks a lot of boxes I'm looking for in a scope and the price is right. Very tempted to roll the dice with one.
Click to expand...

Go read up on it... might be a repeat? But they will take care of you...
 
#85
Since I picked up the new (new to me) NF SHV, I wouldn’t even look at another Vortex under the Razor line. For me, the SHV checks all the boxes in that price range. It’s available in a FFP, illuminated, zero stop, and great glass. I’ve had a PST go down, and my Vortex Range finder go down. It’s NF for me, in that price range.
 
#86
OH58DViper said:
Ive sent two S&Bs, 1Kahles, and a Minox in for services because of something failing. I have had two Gen2 Razors and an AMG that haven’t given me a bit of problems.

I’ll continue to buy Vortex and I’ll also continue to buy S&B. Complaining about these things is like bashing ford for a battery going dead or an alternator failure. Stuff is going to break, just be thankful Vortex covers everything up to and including stupidity with their warranty.

My $.02
Click to expand...
The above implies no more Kalhes or Minox for you?
Which scopes and what issues and results?
 
#87
rtpguy said:
The above implies no more Kalhes or Minox for you?
Which scopes and what issues and results?
Click to expand...

I still have the Minox and khales. Full explanation.... I have the scopes I’m finally happy with. I don’t see myself continuing to swap and sell like I have been. I have had every major brand that I care to try and know what I’ll buy from here on out for new builds. If it’s a new Comp gun I’ll buy vortex, if it’s a new LR play rig like a 375 cheytac I’ll go S&B. The Minox is currently away getting my turrets unF’d and will be going on a 338 RUM custom build. The Khales was a turret issue where it went completely smooth on me like the click pin failed. So it comes down to personal preference for me and the Razor is my pick for rubbing against obstacles and not worrying about the aesthetics of the finish and S&B for my big dick guns. The Minox has the best glass I have seen and love the MR2 for hunting so it’s going on my new primary hunter. The Khales is currently sitting on a Slug Gun ha, I may toss it on my wife’s 7RM custom if she likes the reticle and get rid of her Zeiss 5-25. I look at the vortex and S&B like women, the S&B is the euro model I take to the country club with a soft, tight, velvety snatch that I like to show pics of to my boys and brag about. The Vortex is the smokin country girl that lets me put it in her @$$ and makes me feel good by telling me I have a huge dick when we both know the truth. I’m just happy to have found them both and that I don’t have to pick just one.
 
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#88
OH58DViper said:
I still have the Minox and khales. Full explanation.... I have the scopes I’m finally happy with. I don’t see myself continuing to swap and sell like I have been. I have had every major brand that I care to try and know what I’ll buy from here on out for new builds. If it’s a new Comp gun I’ll buy vortex, if it’s a new LR play rig like a 375 cheytac I’ll go S&B. The Minox is currently away getting my turrets unF’d and will be going on a 338 RUM custom build. The Khales was a turret issue where it went completely smooth on me like the click pin failed. So it comes down to personal preference for me and the Razor is my pick for rubbing against obstacles and not worrying about the aesthetics of the finish and S&B for my big dick guns. The Minox has the best glass I have seen and love the MR2 for hunting so it’s going on my new primary hunter. The Khales is currently sitting on a Slug Gun ha, I may toss it on my wife’s 7RM custom if she likes the reticle and get rid of her Zeiss 5-25. I look at the vortex and S&B like women, the S&B is the euro model I take to the country club with a soft, tight, velvety snatch that I like to show pics of to my boys and brag about. The Vortex is the smokin country girl that lets me put it in her @$$ and makes me feel good by telling me I have a huge dick when we both know the truth. I’m just happy to have found them both and that I don’t have to pick just one.
Click to expand...


Best.

Review.

Ever...

Lmaoooooooo!!!

I love the “country girl” reference....

I’ll try it out....

My Weaver 6-30x56 I just ordered is like a 40yr old soccer mom with I lil too much in the trunk, but likes it hard and rough, and begs for more, but only has eyes for me....
 
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#89
All the people in this thread staying “if it’s not a gen 2 Razor then the rest suck. I’ll stick with S&B and NF”. You guys find me a $1000 S&B and NF with the same features and you can then compare them apples. Budget scopes come with budget scope problems. They all have them.... Hense the reason why these companies with the big expectations won’t put their name on them. As Frank said before in the this thread. Batch testing vs hand built. It’s not rocket science.
 
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#93
Primus said:
People should be banned when they post shit like this. As if anyone gives a fuck about gamers and what sponsored people shoot. Everyone with an IQ over 80 knows the razor is a very good scope and at the lower end of the cost spectrum. If S&b, TT or khales could be had for sub 2k(which can easily be done with vortex razor) I bet you would see alot more of them on top of rifles as well
Click to expand...
I'd suggest going to some of the "gamer" matches and see for yourself how hard equipment is run and make sure to share some of your thoughts with them. You might gain some real knowledge instead of making shit up in your head.
 
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#95
Cheater. Don't let the country girl find out you are banging the euro trash - I happen to know she has a gun nearby.

OH58DViper said:
I still have the Minox and khales. Full explanation.... I have the scopes I’m finally happy with. I don’t see myself continuing to swap and sell like I have been. I have had every major brand that I care to try and know what I’ll buy from here on out for new builds. If it’s a new Comp gun I’ll buy vortex, if it’s a new LR play rig like a 375 cheytac I’ll go S&B. The Minox is currently away getting my turrets unF’d and will be going on a 338 RUM custom build. The Khales was a turret issue where it went completely smooth on me like the click pin failed. So it comes down to personal preference for me and the Razor is my pick for rubbing against obstacles and not worrying about the aesthetics of the finish and S&B for my big dick guns. The Minox has the best glass I have seen and love the MR2 for hunting so it’s going on my new primary hunter. The Khales is currently sitting on a Slug Gun ha, I may toss it on my wife’s 7RM custom if she likes the reticle and get rid of her Zeiss 5-25. I look at the vortex and S&B like women, the S&B is the euro model I take to the country club with a soft, tight, velvety snatch that I like to show pics of to my boys and brag about. The Vortex is the smokin country girl that lets me put it in her @$$ and makes me feel good by telling me I have a huge dick when we both know the truth. I’m just happy to have found them both and that I don’t have to pick just one.
Click to expand...
 
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#97
I broke a Razor HD. They replaced it and didn't even give me guff about it. That was nice. I don't really like seeing the hate on them.

I would like a scope that just won't break, but its really nice to know you are covered if you do.
 
#98
I have a Vortex G2 Razor on one of my AXs. Sold the one on my other AX to switch back to a S&B, though I’m going with the Ultra Short this time. I know it’s personal preference but to me the EBR-2C doesn’t cut it. Didn’t find anything else wrong with the G2 Razors. Good glass, good ergos and reliable. I just can’t stand that reticle.

H59 or bust for this guy.
 
#99
Buy a low to mid level product... it's not going to be as reliable as top tier.

At least there is a somewhat hassle free warranty. Can't be said of a lot of other companies which offer comparable products at comparable prices.
 
#100
Birddog6424 said:
Two worst case scenario failures from the PST Viper. Day one of a week long hunting trip, and day one of a two day competition. Never again.

I have had four Razors, still own three. They are all are good to go.

If it doesn't say Razor on the side, I won't touch Vortex.
Click to expand...

What about the PST Gen II ? My only personal experience with Vortex is with the Razor HD, and I am happy with it, but for the price, probably prefer other scopes more.

I recently started a tactical and long-range shooting shop, and carry some great scope lines. Mostly the big-name European scopes, plus NightForce. The Vortex reps called and I am weighing whether I want to carry their line. I don't want bad customer experiences. They have offer a sweetheart deal on the PST Gen1, and I have heard mixed reviews, but good things about the Gen2.
 
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