Buddy of mine indicated that he uses TSP when cleaning brass with stainless pins. Does anybody know any reasons that TSP should not be used? If OK, TSP is stronger than Dawn and and appears to do a great job quickly.
Any reason NOT to use TSP to clean brass w/ stainless?
- Thread starter oldfudd
- Start date
Ditch the TSP and use cream of Tartar about 1 tbl spoon full my brass shines like a dimaond in a goats a$$ and doesnt spot or tarnish and its safe
1 gal of water
1/4 tsp of lemi shine
3 tbls spoons of regular dawn dish soap
1 tbl spoon of cream of tartar
I run mine with stainless steel media in a thumlers tumbler
1 gal of water
1/4 tsp of lemi shine
3 tbls spoons of regular dawn dish soap
1 tbl spoon of cream of tartar
I run mine with stainless steel media in a thumlers tumbler
Shake em out in couple of towels and then air dry no spots bottle neck cases get dried in a a piece of plastic peg board ( home Depot about 5 bucks ) drilled out for the neck primer side up heres a thousand cases I did a year ago hope this pic uploads
Of all the medias and methods I have tried in 25 plus years of handloading none comes close to this the brass looks brand new inside and out including primer pockets
Is that brass or diamonds in a goat's ass? Nice work GM. thanks for the recipe and info, I never heard of the tartar etc. might have to try it...
You will be blown away by how clean they come out if your using Stainless Steel Media FWI Cream of Tartar is a powder you can get at any grocery store in the spice section I and use a teaspoon full (smaller than a Table spoon)
Huh, who'da thunk? ...going to have to try this Cream of Tatar trick this weekend...
Thanks for the tip GM!
Thanks for the tip GM!
No problem I will List my steps for you
1. spray cases with dillon spray lube
2. resize deprime
3. This is for Wet tumbler with Stainless Steel Media
a. 2 lbs brass cartridges and 5 lbs of stainless steel media
b. about a gallon of tap water
c. 1/4 teaspoon of lemi shine ( grocery Store in the diswashing section)
d. plain old dawn dish soap 3 tbl spoons
e. teaspoon of Cream of Tartar
f. put the lid and run for 1 to 2 hrs
3. separate media and brass
4. rinse with cold tap water I completely dunk em in the sink in my separator
5. shake out all the water
6. dry in a towel I put the brass in the towel and fold it in half and shake side to side
7. dry in another towel same as above
8. let air dry
for rifle case you can use peg board drilled out to the neck size of bottle neck cases insert cases with the primer end up they will dry faster I set mine outside inthe sun But I am in south Texas we get a Lot of Sun
Let me know how it works
1. spray cases with dillon spray lube
2. resize deprime
3. This is for Wet tumbler with Stainless Steel Media
a. 2 lbs brass cartridges and 5 lbs of stainless steel media
b. about a gallon of tap water
c. 1/4 teaspoon of lemi shine ( grocery Store in the diswashing section)
d. plain old dawn dish soap 3 tbl spoons
e. teaspoon of Cream of Tartar
f. put the lid and run for 1 to 2 hrs
3. separate media and brass
4. rinse with cold tap water I completely dunk em in the sink in my separator
5. shake out all the water
6. dry in a towel I put the brass in the towel and fold it in half and shake side to side
7. dry in another towel same as above
8. let air dry
for rifle case you can use peg board drilled out to the neck size of bottle neck cases insert cases with the primer end up they will dry faster I set mine outside inthe sun But I am in south Texas we get a Lot of Sun
Let me know how it works
6.5 Grendel AR 200 yds 5 Shots 5 Shots 338 Lapua 300 yds
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OK so have been cleaning a ton of brass this last weekend and twice i ran into where the cases were coming out with a black type rubber substance on them. i was using cheap soap and lemi shine. tried dialing back the lemi shine etc. wiped out the barrell and that worked for about two loads then back to blackish cases.
Tried your recipe tonight without wiping anything down, used actual dawn, the cream of tarter powder and the little bit of lemi shine. ran it for 2 hours. bingo!!!!!! all the black stuff poured right out and the once blackish cases gleamed!!! this is by far the best recipe and will use this from here on out. strongly recomend the dawn, tarter and lemi shine trifecta if you havent tried it.
Tried your recipe tonight without wiping anything down, used actual dawn, the cream of tarter powder and the little bit of lemi shine. ran it for 2 hours. bingo!!!!!! all the black stuff poured right out and the once blackish cases gleamed!!! this is by far the best recipe and will use this from here on out. strongly recomend the dawn, tarter and lemi shine trifecta if you havent tried it.
were you thinking cream of mushroom? i was haha, i had to read it a couple times and then realized its a powder. glad i didnt try cream of mushroom haha.
did the inside of cases shine like the outside and the primer pockets look clean too
i didnt look inside them but im sure they are super clean. the primers were still in also. i have had some real good shiny brass come out in the past but i think the drum got kinda loaded up with carbon and was putting it back onto the cases. the trifecta stripped it all out though. i think the next batch i do will be even more amazing now the drum and media is all nice and clean.
I just use lemi shine and water with my stainless media, and it works like a champ. I thought I would try to be clever once and add a small slice of Lava bar soap with that good ol' pumice power... doesn't quite work like that. All of the residue stuck to the cases and they were almost as sticky as Scotch Tape. It took two changes of clean water and dawn soap in the tumbler to get it all off. Lesson learned, now its just lemi shine and water.
Lube deprime and resize first that way your loading clean brass I process all my brass that way on a RCBS Pro 2000 and then load on my 650 with the RCBS I can process (resize and deprime ) 250 rounds in about 8 minutes and on the dillonn ican load about 800 an hr I I am loading match grade I load on reddingT7 weigh each charge weigh the brass ect ect
i tried just lemi shine and water and that wouldnt get this residue off. use what works i guess. i was getting good results with soap and lemi but i ran 3500 9mm cases this weekend and it all started getting gunked up...
yeah the lemi shine is for water treatment hardwater im in the Texas hill country water is really hard here
What kind of sick mind would think of cream of tartar for cleaning brass? Strange people here. stranger yet is how many will try this, including me, we are a sick bunch.
read the in structions posted above this is for wet tumbling with Stainless Steel Media
GM...before everybody jumps on the Cream of Tarter bandwagon...as you know we in the shooting/reloading fanatics section will frequently reason that, "A little is good then a lot is better". Cream of tartar is Tartaric acid. Acids and other chemicals and temperature variations, contribute to a condition known as "dezincification". My chemistry degree is too far out of date to say for sure, but the selective removal of zinc from brass weakens it. How much, if any, dezincification is taking place with your solution? It would be nice if someone on the hide could run the solutions used here past a real chemical engineer and verify safety or not.
Brasso contains ammonia...which weakens brass through a similar process, and is recognized as something you shouldn't use on cartridge cases. If Tartaric acid mixed with the other chemicals in your solution is deleterious, I for one would like to know. I'd hate for someone to use the Cream of Tartar on a batch of brass enough times to weaken the brass to the degree to cause a KABOOM. JMHO
Brasso contains ammonia...which weakens brass through a similar process, and is recognized as something you shouldn't use on cartridge cases. If Tartaric acid mixed with the other chemicals in your solution is deleterious, I for one would like to know. I'd hate for someone to use the Cream of Tartar on a batch of brass enough times to weaken the brass to the degree to cause a KABOOM. JMHO
If your brass goes pink, it's being stripped of zinc. But is this loss significant? The process can only occur on the surface, and the key value to using brass is that it is malleable. Does this zinc depletion result in more or less malleability? I am not fully convinced that pink brass has lost its suitability for cartridge reloading.
Greg
Greg
I have noticed that Lemi Shine also turns your brass pink if you tumble too long, it would be nice to hear from someone on this as to whether or not it is critically detrimental to your brass.
well after over a couple of hundred thousand rounds reloaded and fired with the method stated above I can state that I have had no brass turn Pink and I have had no KABOOMS or brass failure
Actually, Greg...in the reports I received and researched when building my boat some 25 years ago, some brasses dezincify faster, and some not at all. Some will honeycomb throughout. Chemists have learned to add small amounts of other metals to brass to prevent the occurrence. However, I understand that cartridge brass is only copper and zinc without those other elements. My question was prompted by my observance that people tend to add more of a substance when only a little bit is needed to work. I.e., Gunner's Mate has a fixed solution that apparently does NO harm. Others may dump more acid, or find a faster working acid (such as Hydrochloric) to add that might exacerbate the dezincification.
I read from your posts that you prefer to err on the edge of caution. So do I.
I read from your posts that you prefer to err on the edge of caution. So do I.
[MENTION=1338]former naval person[/MENTION]
As I understand it, the brass stock used for drawing brass cases does vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Not a huge amount, but it does vary, based on their own in-house manufacturing process (how many steps in drawing, thickness of the stock, annealing process etc.) and their source of their stock. As you said, the variance has more to do with the minute additives more so than the standard 70/30 mix of cartridge brass.
Sorry Greg.
I didn't answer you or the OP's question either.
As I understand it, the brass stock used for drawing brass cases does vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Not a huge amount, but it does vary, based on their own in-house manufacturing process (how many steps in drawing, thickness of the stock, annealing process etc.) and their source of their stock. As you said, the variance has more to do with the minute additives more so than the standard 70/30 mix of cartridge brass.
Sorry Greg.
I didn't answer you or the OP's question either.
Sorry guys, I wasn't being testy, I'm just genuinely curious about those answers.
I have used TSP for serious cleaning tasks and it does an admirable job with plain old junk and weathering discoloration. Best cleaner I've ever found for a white vinyl roof (back in the '80's). My primary interest is in removing powder residue from case interiors and necks. If it also cleans off the case exteriors, so much the better. Aside from the EPA bans on widespread use of phosphates, I wanted to know if there was any practical caveat where the phosphate degrades the brass. Unlike acidic additives, TSP is significantly alkaline, and is used as an approved flux to remove copper oxides for hard soldering medical grade copper tubing.
I use Dawn and unsweetened lemonade mix (Citric Acid, Natural And Artificial Flavors. Contains Less Than 2% Of The Following: Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Maltodextrin, Modified Cornstarch, Silicon, Dioxide (Prevents Caking), Sodium Citrate, Titanium Dioxide, Yellow 5, Yellow 5 Lake.) in my ultrasonic tank and get back clean brass as well as some 'pinking'. This topic has already taught me to decrease the acid (lemonade).
...And then, there's muriatic...
Greg
I have used TSP for serious cleaning tasks and it does an admirable job with plain old junk and weathering discoloration. Best cleaner I've ever found for a white vinyl roof (back in the '80's). My primary interest is in removing powder residue from case interiors and necks. If it also cleans off the case exteriors, so much the better. Aside from the EPA bans on widespread use of phosphates, I wanted to know if there was any practical caveat where the phosphate degrades the brass. Unlike acidic additives, TSP is significantly alkaline, and is used as an approved flux to remove copper oxides for hard soldering medical grade copper tubing.
I use Dawn and unsweetened lemonade mix (Citric Acid, Natural And Artificial Flavors. Contains Less Than 2% Of The Following: Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Maltodextrin, Modified Cornstarch, Silicon, Dioxide (Prevents Caking), Sodium Citrate, Titanium Dioxide, Yellow 5, Yellow 5 Lake.) in my ultrasonic tank and get back clean brass as well as some 'pinking'. This topic has already taught me to decrease the acid (lemonade).
...And then, there's muriatic...
Greg
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Greg,
You say you have some pinking, what do you do with the brass that does this? Are they dangerous at this point or do you still shoot them? I had a batch of about 20 Winchester brass that I left in the tumbler over night that turned pink, are these now junk or do I worry? They went through my sizing die without difference in feel or resistance, is the pinking on the surface or throughout the thickness?
You say you have some pinking, what do you do with the brass that does this? Are they dangerous at this point or do you still shoot them? I had a batch of about 20 Winchester brass that I left in the tumbler over night that turned pink, are these now junk or do I worry? They went through my sizing die without difference in feel or resistance, is the pinking on the surface or throughout the thickness?
I did shoot them. No visible consequences, but I've been tumbling my brass in walnut since then. I can't even tell which ones are which by now. I don't know if they're dangerous or not, so far, looks like mine aren't; but that's why I asked the questions.
Greg
Greg
The more I look into this the more I think I may be misunderstanding the term pinking, my brass have been discolored to the point that they are nearly an identical copper color as the bullets I intend to put on them. Other people across the interwebs seem to have ended up with almost pure copper cases that are literally pink. Mine are no where near that stage of being stripped of zinc. From what I have read mine are merely discolored and possibly even only on the surface. As with all things reloading, the discoloration is a variance from the norm and raised cause for concern. I think this may clear up some other concerns that people may have on this subject and I will post pictures of my cases, as this thread doesn't have a visual reference yet.
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These pictures are not the best but I think they are good enough to get the jest. One case is copper colored the other is standard yellow brass.
Gave Gunner-s-mate mix a try, which is pretty much the same as mine except for the ( Cream of Tarter ) and it worked well, a tad brighter then
with out the tarter.
Thanks G Mate.
with out the tarter.
Thanks G Mate.
I used gunner-s-mate recipe a try and was really happy with the outcome. Since the initial test have have done roughly 1k of 9mm and 600ish .223. They all look like brand new brass. It also seems to get the primer pockets a tad bit cleaner.
I buy many things from Amazon, and the nicest part is that I seldom need to buy anything in bulk. If it's popular, it will always be there for a re-order.
Greg
Greg
Guys if your brass is turning pink your using too much lemishine. 9mm to 40 case of lemishine per gallon of water. Does not hurt the brass. You can tumble again to get the color back to normal. You will have to replace the brass from shooting before you would have to replace it from tumbling.
