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Anybody Shooting Handguns ELR?

N

Nevada Desert Rat

Private
Minuteman
Aug 31, 2023
42
19
Nevada
#1
Anybody here getting serious with a handgun ELR? I am looking for somebody to compare notes with. Such things as setup, grip, optics and what not. Right now I am shooting out to 1200yds with my S&W 460. And with my Thompson Contender in 300 Blackout so far I have made it out to 2200yds. The Contender is a sub 1/2moa gun and my first go at 2200yds it only took me 8 shots to walk it onto my 12 inch wide 18 inch tall target. Dont laugh at the contender the bullet is still going about 850fps at 2200yds.
Anyway I was hoping to find people to compare notes with.
Thank You
NDR
 
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#2
Nevada Desert Rat said:
Anybody here getting serious with a handgun ELR? I am looking for somebody to compare notes with. Such things as setup, grip, optics and what not. Right now I am shooting out to 1200yds with my S&W 460. And with my Thompson Contender in 300 Blackout so far I have made it out to 2200yds. The Contender is a sub 1/2moa gun and my first go at 2200yds it only took me 8 shots to walk it onto my 12 inch wide 18 inch tall target. Dont laugh at the contender the bullet is still going about 850fps at 2200yds.
Anyway I was hoping to find people to compare notes with.
Thank You
NDR
Click to expand...
What bullets are you using for the 300 blackout for that distance
 
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#3
Not really seeing any bullet combo with realistic velocities in a short barrel pistol that will the 850 fps at 2200 yards results is more around the 500 - 600 fps . Its about 1000 yards past repeatable distance . For the 300 black out .
 
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#5
I've seen and owned plenty of 1/2 MOA Contenders, and a couple of 1/4MOA ones. But nothing that accurate in that caliber.

"Technical Pistol" was my serious driving interest for a long time, but then as now, I don't have access to any "long range" spaces. Never played with them past 3-350 :(


Even where I hunt, the farthest I could shoot is 700 yards. That would be from ridge top to ridge top, one neighbor's yard to another neighbor's yard. Shooting over a road and over a house. So I don't do that. lol
 
#6
Following, considering having one built for 1000 yds to 1 mile range. Possibly in an Accurate rifle systems chassis. Some calibers considered are 6 PRC, 6 x 284, and 6.5 x 47. Velocity, recoil and ability to see splash at distance are definitely factors to ponder.
 
#7
badassgunworks said:
Not really seeing any bullet combo with realistic velocities in a short barrel pistol that will the 850 fps at 2200 yards results is more around the 500 - 600 fps . Its about 1000 yards past repeatable distance . For the 300 black out .
Click to expand...
I can easily prove you wrong. Remember it is a single shot crack open. The cartridges do not have to come out of a AR magazine. For the record I am shooting at 4200 feet. Dont think for a second my info is not real close. The stop watch backs me up.
NDR
 
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#10
Nevada Desert Rat said:
It is a 200gr Sierra matchking. It is a very low drag bullet. . They claim .715bc. And the stop watch backs up the fact the bc is real close. The bullet preforms so well I am thinking about using it in my 30-06 ELR gun.
NDR
Click to expand...
Custom throat in the T/C barrel? What's the muzzle velocity you are getting?
 
#12
SmileMaker said:
Following, considering having one built for 1000 yds to 1 mile range. Possibly in an Accurate rifle systems chassis. Some calibers considered are 6 PRC, 6 x 284, and 6.5 x 47. Velocity, recoil and ability to see splash at distance are definitely factors to ponder.
Click to expand...
I have no problems seeing the hits from my 223 at a mile and my 300 blackout at 2200 yards or my 25-06 at 2200yds not sure what your point is. Are you shooting any of these cartridges out of a pistol?
NDR
 
#14
This is actually fun to see and hear about. I currently only have my 45LC and .22 barrel for my contender, so neither are candidates for this type of shooting. Also, there are the small problems of no place to shoot these distances and about 50 feet above sea level to contender with.

I’d like to point out something regarding your comment on seeing splash at those distances. The video does make that clear. However, in many places that are no hot, dry and desolate, that kind of splash signature is something that can only be dreamt about.

Having been lucky enough to find a place for a while here in Florida that had 1 mile and 2000 yard berms, we could only see the 1 mile splash when the berms were cleared of vegetation and it was a very dry period. Then we could see sand splash through our scopes. Except once the day got warmer at about 9:00-10:00am. Then the mirage was usually so bad that splash became a pipe dream.
 
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#16
lash said:
This is actually fun to see and hear about. I currently only have my 45LC and .22 barrel for my contender, so neither are candidates for this type of shooting. Also, there are the small problems of no place to shoot these distances and about 50 feet above sea level to contender with.

I’d like to point out something regarding your comment on seeing splash at those distances. The video does make that clear. However, in many places that are no hot, dry and desolate, that kind of splash signature is something that can only be dreamt about.

Having been lucky enough to find a place for a while here in Florida that had 1 mile and 2000 yard berms, we could only see the 1 mile splash when the berms were cleared of vegetation and it was a very dry period. Then we could see sand splash through our scopes. Except once the day got warmer at about 9:00-10:00am. Then the mirage was usually so bad that splash became a pipe dream.
Click to expand...
Hey lash,

are you talking about Jtac Ranch? Never been but it looks awesome.

Scott
 
#17
lash said:
On the plus side, I like your recommendation to use the 200 gr Sierra for my .30-06. So I just bought some to try.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind my 30-06 has a 1-8 twist. And my 300 Blackout Pistol has a 1-8 twist. The box recommends 1-9 or faster. But out of the pistol it is only going 1800fps. So even if your 06 has a 1-10. It will have the bullet spinning faster. If your gun is a 1 in 10 I would enjoy hearing about your results.
NDR
 
#18
A5scott said:
Hey lash,

are you talking about Jtac Ranch? Never been but it looks awesome.

Scott
Click to expand...
Yes, good fun when I go down to shoot the shit with some of the great guys there. I was even able to hit three out of eleven on the standard ipsc at a mile, with my 6BR. That was a thrill. We could see splash but not the actual impact point on the target. Fortunately, it’s hung loosely so we could tell by how it moved.
 
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#19
Nevada Desert Rat said:
Keep in mind my 30-06 has a 1-8 twist. And my 300 Blackout Pistol has a 1-8 twist. The box recommends 1-9 or faster. But out of the pistol it is only going 1800fps. So even if your 06 has a 1-10. It will have the bullet spinning faster. If your gun is a 1 in 10 I would enjoy hearing about your results.
NDR
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. My ‘06 has 1-9 twist, so I think if I just push them a decent speed without going hot, I should be able to take advantage of the BC of that Sierra. It’ll probably be a bit before that happens, but I’ll try to update here with results.
 
#20
lash said:
This is actually fun to see and hear about. I currently only have my 45LC and .22 barrel for my contender, so neither are candidates for this type of shooting. Also, there are the small problems of no place to shoot these distances and about 50 feet above sea level to contender with.

I’d like to point out something regarding your comment on seeing splash at those distances. The video does make that clear. However, in many places that are no hot, dry and desolate, that kind of splash signature is something that can only be dreamt about.

Having been lucky enough to find a place for a while here in Florida that had 1 mile and 2000 yard berms, we could only see the 1 mile splash when the berms were cleared of vegetation and it was a very dry period. Then we could see sand splash through our scopes. Except once the day got warmer at about 9:00-10:00am. Then the mirage was usually so bad that splash became a pipe dream.
Click to expand...
As far as seeing hits on humid wet days. I can see my misses at 1 mile with my 30-06 very easily. I am current shooting hornady 208gr ELD leaving about 2750fps. My 25-06 at 1600yds with 115gr bergers I can make out the misses also. with What you are describing for conditions. I have my scope around 8 or10 power to minimize the mirage. But it is still able to see the bullet arriving on target or if I am missing I can see the bullet arriving on mother earth just before impact and then I can make out the muddy impact splash. In my opinion to many long range shooters take stock in high power scopes. I on the other hand when I am shooting with my rifles at ELR distances they are mostly on 10-14 power. Oh course my pistol is on 7 power. The trick is if you are holding the gun correctly after recoil the cross hairs should be back on target long before the bullet arrives. And you should be able to make out the impacts even in mud.. Basically I can see the bullet in flight as it is arriving on target. I have not shot my 300BO at 1 mile on wet days but I believe I can make out the misses if I did. Aslo take a rake and rake around the target and loosen the mud so the ground will make a bigger splash.
NDR
 
#21
lash said:
On the plus side, I like your recommendation to use the 200 gr Sierra for my .30-06. So I just bought some to try.
Click to expand...
Long time ago I got done great advice about 200smk

The 200smk and 200 game king were very very close in BC.

Let’s you practice and hunt with the same ballistics with in normal hunting distances
 
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#22
lash said:
Yes, good fun when I go down to shoot the shit with some of the great guys there. I was even able to hit three out of eleven on the standard ipsc at a mile, with my 6BR. That was a thrill. We could see splash but not the actual impact point on the target. Fortunately, it’s hung loosely so we could tell by how it moved.
Click to expand...
thanks, that great shooting with a 6BR! Fun times!
Scott
 
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#23
Nevada Desert Rat said:
As far as seeing hits on humid wet days. I can see my misses at 1 mile with my 30-06 very easily. I am current shooting hornady 208gr ELD leaving about 2750fps. My 25-06 at 1600yds with 115gr bergers I can make out the misses also. with What you are describing for conditions. I have my scope around 8 or10 power to minimize the mirage. But it is still able to see the bullet arriving on target or if I am missing I can see the bullet arriving on mother earth just before impact and then I can make out the muddy impact splash. In my opinion to many long range shooters take stock in high power scopes. I on the other hand when I am shooting with my rifles at ELR distances they are mostly on 10-14 power. Oh course my pistol is on 7 power. The trick is if you are holding the gun correctly after recoil the cross hairs should be back on target long before the bullet arrives. And you should be able to make out the impacts even in mud.. Basically I can see the bullet in flight as it is arriving on target. I have not shot my 300BO at 1 mile on wet days but I believe I can make out the misses if I did. Aslo take a rake and rake around the target and loosen the mud so the ground will make a bigger splash.
NDR
Click to expand...
The range where I can shoot that distance does not allow anybody to go down range. So, annoying as that is, it is what it is.

I also know to dial down to reduce mirage and have zero issue being on target through the whole bullet’s flight. I may not be the expert that you are, but I’ve been doing this a pretty long time too.

As far as seeing splash from light bullets in wet sand, that’s right sand not nice loose dirt, I’m happy to let you come here to Florida and shoot in our conditions and let you show me a thing or two. Or not. Oh yeah, these are sand berms, so an impact, even from a 300 grain .338 at almost vertical to the berm surface will just drill a hole in the wet sand.

Maybe you’re not understanding conditions here. Or maybe you are just much much better. I’m willing to learn.
 
#24
Do the math on the 105 gr projectile I’m using in the 6BR with 30.2 grains powder behind it and you’ll realize that that bullet is only going about 950 fps with about 215 ft/lbs energy at 1 mile. It makes a very small mark on the target.
 
#25
lash said:
The range where I can shoot that distance does not allow anybody to go down range. So, annoying as that is, it is what it is.

I also know to dial down to reduce mirage and have zero issue being on target through the whole bullet’s flight. I may not be the expert that you are, but I’ve been doing this a pretty long time too.

As far as seeing splash from light bullets in wet sand, that’s right sand not nice loose dirt, I’m happy to let you come here to Florida and shoot in our conditions and let you show me a thing or two. Or not. Oh yeah, these are sand berms, so an impact, even from a 300 grain .338 at almost vertical to the berm surface will just drill a hole in the wet sand.

Maybe you’re not understanding conditions here. Or maybe you are just much much better. I’m willing to learn.
Click to expand...
First off I am no expert. I am just a guy who enjoys shooting and taking on challenges. Thats why I started this thread. I was hoping to find some pistol shooters here to exchange notes with and maybe learn something.
As for where you shoot. I have no clue what the conditions are. But I am one of those people that dont know what its like to quit. There is a way to figure out your misses it is just a matter of finding the solution. And there is always a another idea to try. Remember when you know the task is immposible you will never complete it. If you dont know the task is impossible you will complete. Impossible is not in my vocabulary.
NDR
 
#26
lash said:
Do the math on the 105 gr projectile I’m using in the 6BR with 30.2 grains powder behind it and you’ll realize that that bullet is only going about 950 fps with about 215 ft/lbs energy at 1 mile. It makes a very small mark on the target.
Click to expand...
What pistol are you shooting that in? And how long is the barrel? What is the BC on that bullet?
NDR
 
#29
Contenders, 10 & 11 inch barrels. But with the SMK's we weren't shooting them far at all. Mostly just goofing around, but used them as "finishing" rounds on deer to see what they'd do and not damaging a lot of meat.
(by customs I meant barrels)
 
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#30
cas6969 said:
I've seen and owned plenty of 1/2 MOA Contenders, and a couple of 1/4MOA ones. But nothing that accurate in that caliber.

"Technical Pistol" was my serious driving interest for a long time, but then as now, I don't have access to any "long range" spaces. Never played with them past 3-350 :(


Even where I hunt, the farthest I could shoot is 700 yards. That would be from ridge top to ridge top, one neighbor's yard to another neighbor's yard. Shooting over a road and over a house. So I don't do that. lol
Click to expand...
When you were shooting out to 350 was it off the bench or was it in the "Prone" Position? And when I mean "Prone" I have seen guys they are on There back have a leather patch they put over there boot that the are resting the gun on knees bent to get there foot as close possible using one hand. Or where you doing it some other way?
NDR
 
#31
I never shot a 30/221 past 200 yards, and that was off a bench at a range.
The farther out stuff was "field positions", off whatever, day pack, rolled up sweatshirt om a stone fence, sometimes a small sandbag. That wasn't group shooting targets but things like rocks and milk jugs etc practicing for hunting... in theory, but mostly for fun. (309 & 358 JDJ, once with a 357/44 Bain and Davis IIRC)

The field I used to do it in is no longer farmed or even cut, so those days are over, it's slowly filling in. My Contenders have been sitting for a long time now, for a few reasons.
 
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#32
cas6969 said:
I never shot a 30/221 past 200 yards, and that was off a bench at a range.
The farther out stuff was "field positions", off whatever, day pack, rolled up sweatshirt om a stone fence, sometimes a small sandbag. That wasn't group shooting targets but things like rocks and milk jugs etc practicing for hunting... in theory, but mostly for fun. (309 & 358 JDJ, once with a 357/44 Bain and Davis IIRC)

The field I used to do it in is no longer farmed or even cut, so those days are over, it's slowly filling in. My Contenders have been sitting for a long time now, for a few reasons.
Click to expand...
I myself mostly shoot at anything but paper. I am not much for owning a cordless paper hole puncher. I have no issues with people that like to shoot paper. Its just not me. I got my contender back in the 80s with a 222 barrel. Up until a year or so ago I mostly shot at clay birds out to 500yds mostly 300yds. Then a chain of events happened and I was standing there with my 300bo wondering how far will it go?
One of the reasons I started this thread was to share notes on how others are holding a pistol using a bag, stand, backpack, bipod for a rest. And although I have made a stand to shoot off of now I am shooting off of a small scissor lift. My 460 S&W I am using a bipod and so far I have gotten out to 1200yds with it. Sounds like similar methods to how you are resting you gun..
So here is one of my questions. Your hand grip how are you hanging onto the pistol? Up in till the 300bo barrel and 460. I had a very similar grip as if I am holding it off hand. But as I started to move out farther the grip has morphed. It start with the 460 I was shooting a year or 2 before the 300bo. My grip is to the point I am barley hanging on. The best I can describe it is. 2 points of contact. My pinky and the the web of my hand between the thumb and trigger finger as high up on the grip as I can. The the pressure on the upper point of contact is about as equal as the pressure on the trigger so as I am getting on the trigger the pressure is increasing with trigger pressure. My pinky is as low as I can get it on the grup and is only touching it. My left hand is doing its usual thing and I think that helps with controlling recoil and getting back on target before the bullet arrives.
I am curious as to how others are holding the gun.
Also are you using open sights, Scope or both? If a scope. Do you have any issue with parallax? The first scope on it was a BSA and it had really bad parallax compared to the Leupold I have on it now. It really didnt bother me till after I got to a mile and beyond. It took me too long to pull my head out to figured out what my problem was. With a little dry fire practice I am doing better at controlling it. Between dry fire practice and the peupold I have improved to the point I can give my friends and family a run at it over a mile against there rifles.
So any thoughts on scopes and use?
NDR
 
#33
I’ve been shooting ELR competitions with a handgun against rifles for several years now and can tell you the only disadvantage is velocity. The Nosler cartridges were the answer to being competitive against rifles for me. I started with the 28 Nosler then switched to the 33 Nosler. I have also competed in 22 Rimfire ELR Rifle Matches with a handgun and done very well.
IMG_0196.png
IMG_0295.png
 
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#34
7fingers said:
I’ve been shooting ELR competitions with a handgun against rifles for several years now and can tell you the only disadvantage is velocity. The Nosler cartridges were the answer to being competitive against rifles for me. I started with the 28 Nosler then switched to the 33 Nosler. I have also competed in 22 Rimfire ELR Rifle Matches with a handgun and done very well.View attachment 8226934View attachment 8226935
Click to expand...
Congratulations on your wins.
I would like to know about this gun. It reminds me of a savage axis action. Also that looks like a rifle scope.
Did you buy it as a pistol? Or did you build it? And if so did you get a tax stamp for it?
Did you make the hand-grip and stock for it?
How long is the barrel? not including break. Also what weight bullet and velocity are you getting?
I really would like to know about that gun. It is a direction I have put just a little thought into.
Also since that looks like a rifle scope how do you setup behind it? I have thought about a rifle scope but I am concerned about getting hit in the face.
Also I would like to know about how you are hanging on to it and controlling recoil.
Your setup looks light years ahead of me.
Your wins kind of back up what I have been thinking. I have myself almost convinced with my 338 Lapua I should take the chassis of of it and put a pistol grip on it.
Clearly you are way ahead of me and I would like to learn as much as I can from you if you dont mind.
NDR
 
#35
I’m also interested. That is obviously a custom chassis with a whole bunch of weight on the forearm to help mitigate recoil. What does the whole package weigh?

@Nevada Desert Rat, I don’t believe that you need a tax stamp to own a pistol, which, lacking a buttstock, that obviously is. I could be mistaken, but don’t think so. Anymore so than you need one for a long barreled Contender, as long as you don’t add a butt stock.

I definitely looks like a savage action with a barrel nut on the barrel.
 
#40
308pirate said:
It's a stretch to call those things handguns.
Click to expand...
They aren't as easy to shoot as a rifle, way more sensitive to shooter input.

What would Carlos Hathcock think about the equipment being used today in matches with 30lbs of goober,s bags and prop supports trying to duplicate what he accomplished with a rifle and sling?

22 revolver
20210725_155120.jpg

22 ELR Anschutz
20220131_161709.jpg

20180425_132812.jpg

Topstrap
 
#41
Topstrap said:
What would Carlos Hathcock think about the equipment being used today in matches with 30lbs of goober,s bags and prop supports trying to duplicate what he accomplished with a rifle and sling?
Click to expand...

"Hey look at all that new shit that would have made my job back in 'Nam much easier"

- Carlos Hathcock

WTF do you think Wyatt Earp would have said if he had found a Glock 17 and a case of 9 mm back in the day? "FUCK THESE WHEELGUNS I'M TAKING THIS WEIRD ASS GUN!" is what he would have said.
 
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#42
Nevada Desert Rat said:
Congratulations on your wins.
I would like to know about this gun. It reminds me of a savage axis action. Also that looks like a rifle scope.
Did you buy it as a pistol? Or did you build it? And if so did you get a tax stamp for it?
Did you make the hand-grip and stock for it?
How long is the barrel? not including break. Also what weight bullet and velocity are you getting?
I really would like to know about that gun. It is a direction I have put just a little thought into.
Also since that looks like a rifle scope how do you setup behind it? I have thought about a rifle scope but I am concerned about getting hit in the face.
Also I would like to know about how you are hanging on to it and controlling recoil.
Your setup looks light years ahead of me.
Your wins kind of back up what I have been thinking. I have myself almost convinced with my 338 Lapua I should take the chassis of of it and put a pistol grip on it.
Clearly you are way ahead of me and I would like to learn as much as I can from you if you dont mind.
NDR
Click to expand...
All of my handguns have been built with undesignated actions, a good muzzle brake tames the recoil and makes it tolerable. I use rifle scopes on all of my handguns.
 
#43
Here are a few of my handguns.
 

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#46
Suddenly there are people and there pistols showing up in this thread. I really would appreciate it if we could talk about how you are holding the gun and how you are dealing with your scopes. 7fingers I would not mind seeing a pic just before the sear breaks.
Lets have a discussion.
NDR
 
#49
Nevada Desert Rat said:
Suddenly there are people and there pistols showing up in this thread. I really would appreciate it if we could talk about how you are holding the gun and how you are dealing with your scopes. 7fingers I would not mind seeing a pic just before the sear breaks.
Lets have a discussion.
NDR
Click to expand...
Not just suddenly, we've been doing this long before it became fashionable.

Topstrap
 
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