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Range Report Anyone bored and want to play rifle doctor...
- Thread starter morganlamprecht
- Start date
i should have some extras, thanks for the offer tho
i originally bought the brass rods and cast lead bullets for 223, 6, 6.5, and 308 a couple years ago...only used a couple and havent messed with it since...should still be on the shelf
I would guess it would be hard to feel. In my mind I’m picturing it as less of a uniform expansion and more of 1/4-1/3 of the diameter of the muzzle warping a very small amount and making the bullet release inconsistently. Like on a scale of .0005. It prob wouldn’t be like a 20 yr old 700 that is just wallowed out at the end. You could get scientific and try cutting off 1/2” at a time to see if and when it makes a difference. If I had the equipment I would have done it with mine just because not knowing drives me nuts lol. I would still say try two groups with different brass.
yea i gotcha
Id do the cutting off 1/2" at a time if the shop and range were closer...bout a 40 minute drive and i dont think im that motivated lol
my smith would prolly throw me out after 3-4 cuts if it didnt get any better also ha
Id do the cutting off 1/2" at a time if the shop and range were closer...bout a 40 minute drive and i dont think im that motivated lol
my smith would prolly throw me out after 3-4 cuts if it didnt get any better also ha
It's hard to believe something within the barrel on the rifles or anywhere in between, but maybe give Tubbs final finish bullets a try? I know of someone that over 4000 rounds on his 6.5cm barrel. Groups were not nasty, but they had opened up as the barrel was very worn. Final finish bullets brought the barrel back to life and shooting very tight.
hmm interesting...never tried the tubbs final finish but i have hit this one with JB bore paste a couple times to polish it up
wonder how much difference there is from that and tubbs bullets
wonder how much difference there is from that and tubbs bullets
Read through your thread. Maybe try an over all length test. Load groups in .005 thou increments. Might try to go .070 to .120" out. Probably could start .020 - .030 out. If you have time to check out some chaos. Otherwise the thought of something coming loose might be worth looking at.
A side note, the targets at the NRL finale were not so small that a rifle grouping such as yours would be a hindrance. I have shot with similar grouping rifles and had surprising success.
A side note, the targets at the NRL finale were not so small that a rifle grouping such as yours would be a hindrance. I have shot with similar grouping rifles and had surprising success.
Don’t quite have enough bullets to do much jump tests...jump tests from original testing showed to shoot better .007, .010, and .013 off...it opened up in the .016-.035 range, but still shot better than it has recently...didn’t go any further than that tho as the closer stuff shot so good I didn’t waste any time with it
Nrl finale I was mainly judging off the smaller tyl targets on the rack...they were moa or smaller, maybe closer to 1/2 I think
also I’m always judging by where the bullets are hitting thru the scope...not just hits a hit alone...if I’m in holding .4 left to hit center, i look for them all to hit center, instead of left edge, right edge, center, left edge, etc...nothing at the finale indicated they werent hitting where I expected them to when I broke the shots, but I’ll agree it’s hard to test things for certain under match stress and most of the time a ~1moa rifle is good enough to get it done
Nrl finale I was mainly judging off the smaller tyl targets on the rack...they were moa or smaller, maybe closer to 1/2 I think
also I’m always judging by where the bullets are hitting thru the scope...not just hits a hit alone...if I’m in holding .4 left to hit center, i look for them all to hit center, instead of left edge, right edge, center, left edge, etc...nothing at the finale indicated they werent hitting where I expected them to when I broke the shots, but I’ll agree it’s hard to test things for certain under match stress and most of the time a ~1moa rifle is good enough to get it done
The jump test was to check a theory on jump, and if it was effecting this situation. I have found different rounds come in and out of accuracy in variations of .070 to .100 , of oal, in between nodes. So you don't have to be that close to the lands, and still find accurate loads.
I was just curious if you were possibly changing the timing of the bullet leaving the barrel from changing the throat, and a possible variation of finding a loading that is longer. That loading being possibly more stable to throat errosion. It is a stretch to say this was the case, but a possiblity. Along the lines of Chris longs' optimal barrel time theory.
Otherwise loose/ damaged equipment has done this same thing with groups. I have also had barrels drop premature of throat fire cracking for what i assume was a bad barrel. Those barrels also dropped velocity like a bitch.
I was just curious if you were possibly changing the timing of the bullet leaving the barrel from changing the throat, and a possible variation of finding a loading that is longer. That loading being possibly more stable to throat errosion. It is a stretch to say this was the case, but a possiblity. Along the lines of Chris longs' optimal barrel time theory.
Otherwise loose/ damaged equipment has done this same thing with groups. I have also had barrels drop premature of throat fire cracking for what i assume was a bad barrel. Those barrels also dropped velocity like a bitch.
My first 260 barrel shot great from the start then kinda went south after maybe 800 rounds.
I followed the popular wisdom of chasing the lands but that didn’t help.
I accidentally loaded 5 rounds with my Forster seater two turns too far so like .06 extra jump on top of my normal .02
I was just going to shoot them up but was shocked when I did
Eureka!
My 2nd 260 barrel had a different throat and behaved normal.
3rd is also normal.
That first barrel ended up being a hammer till it died.
I followed the popular wisdom of chasing the lands but that didn’t help.
I accidentally loaded 5 rounds with my Forster seater two turns too far so like .06 extra jump on top of my normal .02
I was just going to shoot them up but was shocked when I did
Eureka!
My 2nd 260 barrel had a different throat and behaved normal.
3rd is also normal.
That first barrel ended up being a hammer till it died.
Following, I was going to load up some to test jump last night, but after I had loaded 20 more for testing last time, when I went to grab some more outta the box I found I only had about 20-25 left from this lot
my Smith still wanted to hit the crown and then hit the chamber with a saami FB before I ran outta bullets so this morning he hit the crown about .050”...went and shot it again
Everything below is after recrowning...
top left is hornady brass...I shot 4 then gave up on that route lol
top right is 5 rounds w/ gen 2 and just for covering based I stuck an NF NX8 on it and fired a couple sighters to adjust
Labradar is the 2 fire round strings from the Gen 2 and NX8...NX8 group is slightly better but Still pretty much the same
went back to the shop and looked at the notes...original FB was actually .157, not .167
Stuck the saami reamer in there just to recut the FB, headspace left the same...so it should have just pushed the .157 to .199
went back to the range with the same ammo from earlier, had 8 rounds left after the few sighters from the NX8
fired 2 sighters, just to hit the throat with some fire, then shot the last 6 rounds I had...
quite a bit better, and would be jumping .050-.060” in the new throat
only 6 rounds so i still wanna go back another day and verify, but better than any group it’s shot for the Last 30-40 rounds
headin out to hunt for the afternoon so I’ll mess with the few bullet I have left tomorrow or Monday
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Maybe it's just soft steel and the barrel is toast early. Heard about a few guys it's happened to, not likely, but not unheard of either. ??
based on what recutting The throat did so far, maybe so?
wasn’t really my goal, if I wasn’t curious I’d throw this barrel in the scrap pile and spin on another one
Had a hammer for 1k rounds then something went south...was lookin at options to correct that, not involved with load tinkering much, especially since when it was new it shot any load better than it has recently, something changed
I’ve got buddies that spend 1/2 their barrel life load tinkering every 2-300 rounds, not my style
Yep, just read your post, you'll probably be good for another 800 now
Side note: pushed some patches and a couple slugs before recrownin but we really couldn’t feel anything notable
pretty much felt smooth the whole way to both of us
pretty much felt smooth the whole way to both of us
Nice! So what does that mean? Something was up with the throat maybe deforming the bullet when it came through?
Nah, not sure that’s applicable...that’s usually a good reason, but at 100 yds I’m not throwing fliers out .2-.3 from a bench
I’ve got 3 other barrels for this rifle that shoot fine, and every range trip I brought other guns to shoot, one of them the exact same complete rifle setup in a different caliber
So this is the only rifle (which was fine for the first ~1000 rounds) I randomly throw .2-.3 fliers out? Doesn’t seem likely
seems so perhaps? I’ll feel better about calling it once I verify another day
I don’t like calling anything for certain off just one trip
Ehh. That’s a difference for sure. May not be the hammer it was before but I’d say you definitely found where the issue was on the rifle.
weird lol while it was all still assembled or was it taken apart and it happened on reassemble?
While it was still assembled...the gunk was ...well....too much oil/grease that formed a nice mostly solid paste that I assume created more pressure on one side of the lug than the other when fired. That was a while back when I was still...well....more stupid that I am now.
very interesting read and thanks for posting. had the same thing happen to me on a 6.5cm barrel with similar round count and never knew what happened. coincidence or not shot a match in kentucky in the pouring rain noticed some fliers towards end of match. getting ready for big dog match in may usual range trip noticed that groups opened up and spread was higher. tried cleaning, checking all case dimensions, re shot a load development. went to big dog with a barrel that would throw occaisional fliers. Tough to adjust when you dont know if it was you, wind or barrel. It was rebarreled after that match approx rd count 1300-1350.
So, what’s the consensus on what happened?
Some sort of pressure situation that jacked up the chamber somehow?
Some sort of pressure situation that jacked up the chamber somehow?
not sure if I’d lean towards a pessure situation or just soft steel/barrel wear?
ive never had any indications of pressure on this barrel, never even a heavy bolt lift...if you’ve watched me run my bolt I’m pretty slow and easy
not sure it it would be rod damage somehow but barrel hasn’t ever been cleaned without a Bore guide and I use the felt patches on the Dewey jag + nylon brushes if needed
Back out today, same ammo I left off with on post #66, had 23 bullets left
fired 1 mag of 10 rounds, top right was first round
fired 1 mag of 10 rounds, top right was first round
agreed, i can live with this
when i get some more bullets in ill play with seating depth again just to see if it tightens up anymore
Also just as a follow up as to why I was pretty confident it was the barrel/load and nothing else on the rifle
yesterday I put the 308 barrel on since I plan on shooting that for a bit to burn a lot of ammo I have loaded up for it
2 different loads running suppressed
one is 175 smk’s/varget/fed brass @ 2555 fps
Other is 175 smk’s/8208/lapua brass @ 2588 fps
Fired 13 shots getting zero and confirming both loads had similar POI
every time i shoot my 308 barrels I wonder why I even mess with anything else lol
yesterday I put the 308 barrel on since I plan on shooting that for a bit to burn a lot of ammo I have loaded up for it
2 different loads running suppressed
one is 175 smk’s/varget/fed brass @ 2555 fps
Other is 175 smk’s/8208/lapua brass @ 2588 fps
Fired 13 shots getting zero and confirming both loads had similar POI
every time i shoot my 308 barrels I wonder why I even mess with anything else lol
