Range Report Applied Ballistics Kestrel; Pro staff support thread

[Capt Academy]

I am going to order one of these Kestrel w/bluetooth!

 

[TexasMade]

2 questions. I just recieved my kestrel AB and I plugged in all the data correctly. For the dope I'm seeing I used the calculate MV and it put me at 2720. I have verified several times with my oehler that I'm right at 2800 with my 260 with a 142 sierra. So whats with the 80fps difference?

Next question do these not come programmed to tell wind speed? I was trying to get a wind speed and it said like 4mph when it was more around 15mph? Thanks

 

[diverdon]

I see on the AB web site that a discount is offered for Veterans. But, when I try to check the boxes that way I get the same retail price. Is their a way for a Vet to get a better price? Thanks, Don.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

2 questions. I just recieved my kestrel AB and I plugged in all the data correctly. For the dope I'm seeing I used the calculate MV and it put me at 2720. I have verified several times with my oehler that I'm right at 2800 with my 260 with a 142 sierra. So whats with the 80fps difference?

Next question do these not come programmed to tell wind speed? I was trying to get a wind speed and it said like 4mph when it was more around 15mph? Thanks

when you were setting it up initially, and you had to remove the impeller, did you press on the center at all? The bearings are extremely delicate, and if you removed the impeller incorrectly you could have damaged it.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I see on the AB web site that a discount is offered for Veterans. But, when I try to check the boxes that way I get the same retail price. Is their a way for a Vet to get a better price? Thanks, Don.

I got mine by just emailing them, after I ordered it.

 

[TexasMade]

when you were setting it up initially, and you had to remove the impeller, did you press on the center at all? The bearings are extremely delicate, and if you removed the impeller incorrectly you could have damaged it.

My instructions claimed removing the impeller was optional so I did not remove it when I did my direction calibration

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Interesting, I would still look at the impeller as being the suspect here. My manual said their is no calibration for it, you just have to replace it.

 

[TexasMade]

Thanks, and as for 2720 instead of 2800 any ideas? My friend told me to use station pressure setting...I dont know why I would want to use that when I thought pressure at the station may change from where I'm at?

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

It will change. I have an at home weather station (Davis), that I know I can use. However you can go to your local airport, and check with the FBO. Mine has their sensors checked every 6 months, and you can just walk in, get the pressure, or pick it up from the AWOS.

 

[bbowles]

Does the impeller have to be removed at first to calibrate compass? I didn't and it seems fine. Other reason to remove?

Also, I know the manual says for the AB program will use station pressure yet the dope continually changes as you hold kestrel. So that makes me think it is gathering weather data from where I am standing? So am I getting info from where I stand or some station? Thanks.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Does the impeller have to be removed at first to calibrate compass? I didn't and it seems fine. Other reason to remove?

Also, I know the manual says for the AB program will use station pressure yet the dope continually changes as you hold kestrel. So that makes me think it is gathering weather data from where I am standing? So am I getting info from where I stand or some station? Thanks.

I was actually told to give the kestrel 10 mins before taking the data as solid. Here is the direct quote "it does get close in the first few seconds but takes 10 minutes to be totally accurate. the best thing to do is swing it around on the lanyard for 30 seconds to get it to ready accurately faster."

 

[tigerfan_9]

Does the impeller have to be removed at first to calibrate compass? I didn't and it seems fine. Other reason to remove?

Also, I know the manual says for the AB program will use station pressure yet the dope continually changes as you hold kestrel. So that makes me think it is gathering weather data from where I am standing? So am I getting info from where I stand or some station? Thanks.

Station pressure is where you are standing. The kestrel is measuring it where you are as opposed to Barometric Pressure which is corrected to sea level based on the reference alt entered. For shooting solutions in AB mode the kestrel always uses station pressure, which is what you want. It does not "pull" data from a weather station like an iphone, it IS a weather station.

Quote from the manual:
Setting Barometric Pressure & Altitude
The Kestrel meter measures “station pressure”, which
changes in response to both changes in altitude and
changes in atmosphere. Barometric pressure is a
measurement of the air pressure adjusted to sea level.

 

[varmint slayer]

Station pressure doesn't mean a weather stations data. It means the actual pressure where you are uncorrected for sea level. You set your reference altitude for 0 and then whatever the barometric pressure says on the unit is no an uncorrected barometric pressure or station pressure. Should read lower than 29.9 or so if you are higher than sea level.

 

[bbowles]

Ok that is what I was hoping it meant! Thanks for the info. I have not yet changed the ref altitude to 0. On the weather side of the Kestrel usually reads about 2960 range now and from AB side (station Pressure) about 2860. My local elevation about 1100 above sea level. Sound about right?

 

[bbowles]

Also, I am trying to understand weather and this Kestrel at same time. From what I now am hearing about Kestrel is that it measures station press (right where I am at). So when go to "weather" side of Kestrel will read BP adjusted for sea level unless set ref alt to 0? And from "AB" side always reads station pressure anyway? So if those are both correct then why change ref alt to 0? (maybe just to see difference between station press and BP adjusted for sea level?

I may be completely confused. Sorry but thanks for lining me out!

 

[RJN]

Tag for reading the whole thread, when I get mine.

 

[Capt Academy]

Purchased mine yesterday and my dope seem to slightly change as well. Still need to play with it and learn its functions!

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Are you guys using the kestrel solo? Or linked? I have mine set on the weather vane behind me, and I use a tablet with Applied Ballistics app on it. I also try to let it settle for 5-10mins before I start calculating.

 

[bbowles]

I am just using a stand alone unit. Not sure how the weather vane works or what it does? Also, I thought apps not avail on Android smart phones yet?

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Applied Ballistics works just fine on android. The weather vane coupled with Bluetooth means that its basically a portable weather station. calculates wind direction and speed, Then calculates your crosswind, headwind and such for you. The weather vane is just a bearing mount that allows the kestrel to float in the wind. So its basically a mobile weather station Bluetooth linked to your tablet. You just set it up behind you, and link it to the Applied Ballistics app. But before you head out, I would note that you need to preset your weapons in the app, or spend the time doing it on the range. A lot of information goes in to the app. Also your going to have to set your ammunition up in the app as well. A chronograph helps a lot with this, otherwise your using the data given by the ammunition manufacturer. I also suggest you get a good compass so you can check your heading calculation on the kestrel. I found that my wedding ring was throwing off the calibration. I'm using an old used 3H compass I picked up for 15$ from a surplus store. I will set one up for you here quickly so you can see.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Here you go, one shot of the setup on the weather vane. Then a couple of screen shots so you can get an idea. It gives you a range table where you can set the properties. It also gives you a reticle showing the hold over point on the cross hair. It gives you the data feed from the kestrel in atmosphere section. You get a graph that shows you bullet drop for that bullet. On the graph it also shows you expected velocity at that range as you can see by the dashed line. The range table also gives you the same states just in increments on a table instead of a graph. Plenty of features to be had. On the reticle screen it tells you changes to be made, expected velocity, all kinds of things to play with. Even flight time. Hope this helps at all. BTW This app works on both my tablet and my phone. Also note you would normally see altitude but I cleared it out while taking the screen shot. Fat fingered it while moving the tablet. Not a usual occurrence but it happened. when you click the upper right button it will say start kestrel atmosphere. Normally you would have a good altitude reading. Also note that I didn't set the target range before switching screens. If you set the target to 1200 or 1000 it will give you the table for that distance. So if you want a full range table set it to 1200 or 1600. if your only shooting out to 300 it only gives you the table to 300.

 

[bbowles]

Thanks a lot for the info and pics! I will have to study on this some more to know what else to ask.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

Funny, I just started carrying the vane's - based on a recent request.
Kestrel Portable Vane Mount|Kestrel Weather Vane BisonTactical

I haven't used one myself, but most of my shooting is range shooting so it would be easy to do. I just don't have anything right now to talk with the Kestrel other than my phone (I don't own a tablet)...

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I would like to add. Their is a more streamlined version of the software (Which I was recently told will be updated soon) unfortunately I'm not sure if I can post photos or screen shots of it. Its the Applied Ballistics Tactical program. Its for military personnel only. If someone corrects me and screenshots are ok, ill be more than happy to share them here. This software is restricted in use though. Still works with the kestrel, only I like the feel of it more. Again if its ok i'll post photos of it, however I was told from the beginning its restricted software.

 

[bbowles]

Sounds like a lot of us new Kestrel users would love to see a detailed how to really utilize this tool. I have had nothing but good to say about this unit and the service I have had from NK in getting it up and running. Had a bluetooth issue that kept getting me "too many nak's" error when uploading from AB Profiler to Kestrel but they helped me figure this out. And Brian and AB gang has been great too.

With that said it would be nice to get some instruction on how to really utilize the tool to the max. I have figured out how to use it effectively but I am too much of a newb in understanding weather stuff to really fine tune it. I don't understand how the rel altitude, BP, Density alt all needs to be set, etc. I know the AB part runs on station pressure and apparently none of that matters on weather side?

Also, don't get how the DSF stuff enough to know what I am doing. If anyone would care to take the time to educate some of us that don't know how this all works together it would be much appreciated by many I am sure. Thanks ahead of time.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

When it comes to the weather and pressure section, you really just need to know to set it to 0. Let the unit do all the math for you. When it comes to calculating ballistics your going to be better off allowing it to calculate the density altitude. Density altitude is your atmospheric altitude once it takes in to account the temp, humidity, pressure... Its a combination of values that create in effect a single unit. Don't get confused here. Just leave it factory and it will calculate your density altitude.

Another thing to know is that it needs time to be "perfect" it will get you close quickly but it needs to air out in order to zero in. The rep told me after I bought mine to swing it on the lanyard for 30 seconds, then let it sit for a couple mins before taking the readings for shooting.

Their are a number of programs that you can use for it. A loader exists to load weapon profiles in to it. Also a connection software exists on PC (only on pc as far as I know) for getting real time weather data in 5 min (you can change this) increments. Another thing to note is that while plenty of 3rd party software exists. The BulletFlight program I found is terrible compared to the AB program. uWind I also had problems with. All the android apps work on PC, Phone, and Tablet. If you buy software and want to run it on pc they have emulators like Bluestacks (my favorite). Bluestacks is basically an android emulator on your computer allowing you to use any of your android programs on your pc.

If your going to use the tablet or phone app what you need to know. You need to know your sight characteristics, in full detail. It helps to have a chronograph but you can enter the factory FPS specs for the ammo your using. With AB you can fine tune your software. AB has two versions. AB standard found in the app store for 30$, or AB Tactical you can get through your unit (or pay for yourself, but I would just have your unit buy it as I did). AB Tactical is a stream lined version of the software, with different options. AB is also a more field friendly or "off the grid" version. Both work great. When you are using either one of them, bring up the menu, and select start kestrel atmosphere. At that point it will update every 5 min (you can change this), and keep its own log of weather. The Kestrel 4500NV automatically calculates crosswind, wind direction, gusts, current speed, and density altitude. Then it will use known velocity drops (you can customize this) for your round. It will give you Time of Flight, and Velocity at target. It will also give you scope hold over if you don't want to utilize the clicks it presents. The 4500NV also tracks headings for you, and uses this to calculate wind effect. In order to utilize this you have to calibrate the compass then check it vs a hand compass. I use the 3H Compass because it has readings in marks of 5. When you check this make sure the compass is at least 4 feet away or more (I found less than 4 feet skewed results a couple times) I also found out I needed to remove my wedding ring. It was throwing off the calibration. If your going to utilize the crosswind feature to the max, I suggest the weather vane. This allows the kestrel unit to freely float in the wind. I also suggest you keep it a bit away from you, so that its not affected by your shooting or the metal around around you. All these programs work on both phone and tablet.

Targets. If your going to the same range all the time, you can program in targets. Exp Lane 1, Lane 2. Crazy Ivan 1, 2, 3. Target 3 for 300, Target 8 for 800. If your at an unknown range or one you don't frequent, you can use your LRF and just enter target distance, and angle. Target speed as well. Doing either of these it will give you Time of Flight, Hold Over, or Adjustments in mils, moa.... etc. It will give you estimated velocity. In the reticle view you can also zoom in the reticle so you can get the appropriate hold point for your level zoom should you need it. You get both a range card, and a range graph that give you bullet drop, and velocity drop. The range table also gives you flight path changes in both inches and moa (or mils if you have a mil dot or mrad), bullet drift over time, time of flight, and energy in ft-lbs at each step in yardage. Don't forget to add the azimuth of the target you are shooting. Another good reason to have a compass, you can enter target direction to help with wind calculation.

How you use this. Is you let the Kestrel do its thing. You enter you weapons profile, and your ammunition profile to the best of your ability. Then you make adjustments (you can set your own bullet curves) for your hand loads. You can do this by holding on the ammunition then going to edit. You can set drag model G1, G7 or Custom. Set enable atmosphere in the zero data. TELL it the weather at the time you zeroed (this will help with the table). Set your muzzle velocity variation.

Custom drag curves need to be purchased. These are rounds they have hand tested. They cost about 2$ a piece. But it has everything from hornady, lake city, lapua, nosler, sierra, and more. The way you set your own curve is under drag model it asks you for BC (Ballistics Coefficient) , you can make adjustments here, use what they already have for G1 or G7, or buy the custom ones from AB. I also found it very easy to use the PC Applied ballistics software. This allows you to use your computer to create profiles and then load them up, if you don't have the tablet software. I would suggest you just pay the 2$ or use the G7.

 

[bbowles]

Doc,
You the man! I haven't had time to read your post yet but thanks in advance! Will read and reread later after work. Thanks again.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Does the impeller have to be removed at first to calibrate compass? I didn't and it seems fine. Other reason to remove?

Also, I know the manual says for the AB program will use station pressure yet the dope continually changes as you hold kestrel. So that makes me think it is gathering weather data from where I am standing? So am I getting info from where I stand or some station? Thanks.

In order to get an accurate reading, you must have air constantly moving over the sensors. That means moving the Kestrel back and forth through the air and then taking a reading. If you have ever seen a weather station, they are uniform over the whole world because the atmospheric readings vary greatly depending on many factors.

You want the atmospherics from where you are, as this is the first experience the bullet encounters on its way to the target. Use the station pressure function by setting the reference altitude to 0 feet.

Good luck and have fun!!

 

[mil_coder]

I've been busy working on a number of items for the Kestrels, so I haven't been monitoring the thread as closely as possible.

I'll work my way up from the bottom here of the thread...


1) Doc - you can post screenshots if you like. If you want, I'll send you the BETA version like I said in the email. It has some new features that you're going to want that I can explain in email. It's probably better to post those screenshots as that is what we'll be using moving forward. Hit me up via email from my email address that I sent you this morning and I'll walk you through it.

2) For those of you using the vane mounts, we've made a new app for you that will be released soon as in conjunction with the new firmware that I've worked on as well for the Kestrels. It's called the Kestrel Companion App. Here are some screenshots.



Usage is pretty straightforward.

- Set up your gun an ammo as always...
- Turn on Bluetooth on your device
- Launch the app
- Click the connect button on the main screen
- Choose the correct Bluetooth device from the list (you need to do the pairing first from within your Android settings before you do this)
- Once you do that, go to the "AB Mode" screen and you should now see the same results updating to the App
- Now, to get live wind readings, click the camera button while you have the wind highlighted
- Put the device in the vane mount and now you have the live wind readings from the device and the holds continually update. Wind 1 will show the current reading and Wind 2 will show the average over the last few seconds.

You can then go ahead and adjust the target range via the app... you can slide the bar, type it directly, or you can use the left/right buttons to increment by 1.

This is currently under BETA testing and any final issues are being resolved.

3) Going back to some answers on the ballistics questions... you guys nailed it on the station pressure... I made sure in the code that it's only reading the true atmospheric pressure and not the barometric/corrected pressure. So, you need not worry about doing things like adjusting the reference altitude.

4) TexasMade - if you are having issues with the muzzle velocity calibration, just shoot me an email at [email protected]. I suspect that if you have a good chrono reading, that you have some other setting that is not quite right. I'm not sure of your round and the BC, but if you use one of Bryan's measured BC's for your round, you should be in really good shape. If that doesn't work out for you, then hit me up via email and we can talk it through.

5) Impeller issue - I've not seen this before... so if you think it's off for some reason, give the guys at NK a call. Joe (tech support) is super responsive there, so he can walk you through anything that might cause you to have issues.

I know a lot of you have also talked to Joe on the Bluetooth uploads too. Herofish spoke to this earlier, but I'd recommend getting the Kensington module. It's small, cheap, and simple. It will VASTLY improve your communications with the device. Quite frankly, the Bluetooth stack from Microsoft has shown to have issues and the Toshiba Bluetooth stack is much more reliable - that's the one that comes with the Kensington module.

Okay, I think that answers most questions that are going on and gives you guys a preview of what's about to be coming down the pipleline as well. Now that I can come up for air, I'll monitor the thread a little better...

It's been a busy few months finishing this guy up: RAPTAR-M: Hands-On with Wilcox Raptar and Applied Ballistics Prototype Raptar-M - The Firearm Blog

 

[mil_coder]

In order to get an accurate reading, you must have air constantly moving over the sensors. That means moving the Kestrel back and forth through the air and then taking a reading. If you have ever seen a weather station, they are uniform over the whole world because the atmospheric readings vary greatly depending on many factors.

You want the atmospherics from where you are, as this is the first experience the bullet encounters on its way to the target. Use the station pressure function by setting the reference altitude to 0 feet.

Good luck and have fun!!

Here's what we teach for best results...

1) Go to AB Mode --> Environment
2) Set Environment Update = On
3) Take the device by the lanyard and swing it around a few times... maybe for about 10 seconds
4) Set the Environment Update = Off

That's exposing the sensors to the ambient air for long enough for them to take accurate measurements. By locking down the temp, you're ensuring that solar loading or ground heating and radiation is now affecting the unit at all.

Typically, I'll do this once every hour or two while shooting. The environmentals just don't usually change that fast. You really have to watch the temp though based upon time of day. You want a good ambient temperature reading.

 

[StormHorny]

I just got my 4500NV with AB today! Been toying around with it for about an hour. I am sure there will be plenty of questions!! I appreciate this thread greatly!!

 

[mdesign]

Good thread, a lot of helpful discussion for us new users.

 

[pangelos]

I'm having an issue with my AB kestrel. Every now and then when I go to turn it on it won't power up, I end up having to open the battery door then close it and then it will turn on. I have the shim installed between the batteries. It's kind of a pain cause anytime I have to due it I have to recalibrate the compass...any ideas?

 

[jeepone]

Call Joe at Kestrel. I have had other issues and he has been very helpful.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

I'm having an issue with my AB kestrel. Every now and then when I go to turn it on it won't power up, I end up having to open the battery door then close it and then it will turn on. I have the shim installed between the batteries. It's kind of a pain cause anytime I have to due it I have to recalibrate the compass...any ideas?

What version software are you running? They might want to upgrade it to 4.8. Yes, Joe will be very helpful. If you have the bluetooth version, upgrading will be simple. If you do not, then you will have to send it in.

 

[pangelos]

What version software are you running? They might want to upgrade it to 4.8. Yes, Joe will be very helpful. If you have the bluetooth version, upgrading will be simple. If you do not, then you will have to send it in.

I have the blue tooth version and am running the 4.8 software. I'll give Joe a call this week. Thanks.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

I have the blue tooth version and am running the 4.8 software. I'll give Joe a call this week. Thanks.

Okay. Sorry I was not more helpful. Good luck and let us know how it worked out. I bet you Joe will have it fixed short of 5 minutes, he is that good.

 

[pangelos]

Okay. Sorry I was not more helpful. Good luck and let us know how it worked out. I bet you Joe will have it fixed short of 5 minutes, he is that good.

No worries. Yea I will let you know what I find out, I should have time to call him tomorrow.

 

[redd0311]

Tag

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

"

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

Great to see the prototype is moving along ! Any new update on likely production timeline for the AB Raptar-M ! You know I am waiting anxiously...

It's been a busy few months finishing this guy up: RAPTAR-M: Hands-On with Wilcox Raptar and Applied Ballistics Prototype Raptar-M - The Firearm Blog

 

[mil_coder]

Great to see the prototype is moving along ! Any new update on likely production timeline for the AB Raptar-M ! You know I am waiting anxiously...

First units are shipping now... They are looking really good...

 

[FN in MT]

Here's what we teach for best results...

1) Go to AB Mode --> Environment
2) Set Environment Update = On
3) Take the device by the lanyard and swing it around a few times... maybe for about 10 seconds
4) Set the Environment Update = Off

That's exposing the sensors to the ambient air for long enough for them to take accurate measurements. By locking down the temp, you're ensuring that solar loading or ground heating and radiation is now affecting the unit at all.

Typically, I'll do this once every hour or two while shooting. The environmentals just don't usually change that fast. You really have to watch the temp though based upon time of day. You want a good ambient temperature reading.

Now I'm confused..... USING the Kestrel at the Range......do I leave the ENVIRONMENT screen "update" parameter ON or OFF? Or do what you described above every few hours to UPDATE readings?



The REAL question I was going to ask here.... Looking at my USER SCREEN #1 which has WIND DIRECTION....I do NOT get a stable reading. Even when holding the unit upright and motionless. The reading will bounce back and forth through the 360 degree swing.
Like; 316 , 271 , 161 , 047 , 027, etc. Try to RE CALIBRATE the compass?


Appreciate the help here.

FN in MT

 

[F4D]

Tag for future

 

[mil_coder]

Now I'm confused..... USING the Kestrel at the Range......do I leave the ENVIRONMENT screen "update" parameter ON or OFF? Or do what you described above every few hours to UPDATE readings?



The REAL question I was going to ask here.... Looking at my USER SCREEN #1 which has WIND DIRECTION....I do NOT get a stable reading. Even when holding the unit upright and motionless. The reading will bounce back and forth through the 360 degree swing.
Like; 316 , 271 , 161 , 047 , 027, etc. Try to RE CALIBRATE the compass?


Appreciate the help here.

FN in MT

FN -

If you're confident you're getting sufficient air flow over the sensors and not getting extra solar loading that will affect temperature measurements, then you can leave Environment -> Update equal to On. A quick way to test this is to perform the procedure that I recommend and then watch the temperature over the next 10-15 seconds. If it starts to drive upwards due to the solar loading, then certainly lock in your environmental conditions.

With respect to the wind direction... I would first recommend performing a compass calibration. If the problem still exists, please give NK a direct call. There is a known compass issue at this time that we're working actively to resolve. Only a small percentage of units are affected by this.

 

[FN in MT]

Thanks Nick for the input. I'll re calibrate the compass and see if THAT does it for me.

As far as the UPDATE parameter...I'll try what you suggest.

FN in MT

 

[Hntelk]

Tag for reading

 

[Derek01]

Tag for reference

 

[Simon55]

Q: for the Kestrel staff ,is it possible to upgrade an existing Kestrel unit ( no ballistic program)and install the applied Ballistics program.When the unit was purchased in New Zealand the units with ballistics programs only had ATRAG available ,my unit is the 4500NV with no ballistics at all.
Thank you.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

Simon55 - I am like 99% certain the answer to your question is no, however they do have a trade-in program on the Kestrel website somewhere.