Without doing a search and spending days reading up on AR's, I would like the simple quick answer to what AR to get for SHTF scenario. I want it to be light, easily manuverable, availible for civilian purchase. I know this leaves alot of gray area, but I am a bolt rifle guy, but feel I need to own an AR of some kind, and have no experience with them. Just trying to speed up the learning curve on the subject.
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AR choice
- Thread starter Bluejazz
- Start date
Re: AR choice
First figure out what you want it for. Are you thinking a close up gun (i.e 100 yards and in) or do you want to shoot some distance? That should help you decide if you want a carbine, spr, or rifle. A good all around choice would be a carbine with a 16 inch barrel, aimpoint and magnifier or some sort of 1-4x scope. Take your pick for the brand of ar, everyone on here will have their own favorite. LMT, Rock River, Colt, DPMS, Armalite, and Noveske are just a few. I would stick with a 1/8 twist barrel and a Surefire x300 light if you can afford it if not a Surefire G2 LED with a VLTOR light mount works great too.
First figure out what you want it for. Are you thinking a close up gun (i.e 100 yards and in) or do you want to shoot some distance? That should help you decide if you want a carbine, spr, or rifle. A good all around choice would be a carbine with a 16 inch barrel, aimpoint and magnifier or some sort of 1-4x scope. Take your pick for the brand of ar, everyone on here will have their own favorite. LMT, Rock River, Colt, DPMS, Armalite, and Noveske are just a few. I would stick with a 1/8 twist barrel and a Surefire x300 light if you can afford it if not a Surefire G2 LED with a VLTOR light mount works great too.
Re: AR choice
get an AR you can hit with
many here practice w/.22uppers for the close in work....then switch to the .223 uppers for the longer distance work......its cheap training
get an AR you can hit with
many here practice w/.22uppers for the close in work....then switch to the .223 uppers for the longer distance work......its cheap training
Re: AR choice
If you can find a used Smith and wesson or RRA M4 around 600 or less. Put the extra into a 2 bolt and Pmags.
If you can find a used Smith and wesson or RRA M4 around 600 or less. Put the extra into a 2 bolt and Pmags.
Re: AR choice
6.8 rounds are pretty ridiculously expensive, and a 5.56 will kill an unwanted visitor just fine. If your looking for strictly home defense get a shotgun.
6.8 rounds are pretty ridiculously expensive, and a 5.56 will kill an unwanted visitor just fine. If your looking for strictly home defense get a shotgun.
Re: AR choice
Unless you have budget issues, the AR is a far better choice than the shotgun.
- far more accurate
- easier to load and manipulate
- much higher capacity
- easier for the recoil-sensitive to use
- and most importantly, less over-penetration in building materials than buckshot
The only thing the shotgun has going for it over the AR is terminal ballistics under 25 yards.
I would suggest that the OP lurk around on some AR-specific sites for a week or two, and be mindful of the amount of nonsense flying around.
You don't need to spend $1500 to get a nice AR, though you do get what you pay for ... but unless you're getting a good deal on a used rifle, you're better off betting your life on a $250 shotgun than a $600 AR-15.
Unless you have budget issues, the AR is a far better choice than the shotgun.
- far more accurate
- easier to load and manipulate
- much higher capacity
- easier for the recoil-sensitive to use
- and most importantly, less over-penetration in building materials than buckshot
The only thing the shotgun has going for it over the AR is terminal ballistics under 25 yards.
I would suggest that the OP lurk around on some AR-specific sites for a week or two, and be mindful of the amount of nonsense flying around.
You don't need to spend $1500 to get a nice AR, though you do get what you pay for ... but unless you're getting a good deal on a used rifle, you're better off betting your life on a $250 shotgun than a $600 AR-15.
Re: AR choice
In a pm he stated he was looking at larger cal's so that is why my vote went to 6.8. He also states in OP that he is looking for an AR for SHTF scenerio not asking about a SHTF scattergun.
In a pm he stated he was looking at larger cal's so that is why my vote went to 6.8. He also states in OP that he is looking for an AR for SHTF scenerio not asking about a SHTF scattergun.
Re: AR choice
Right, and he never said that he was looking for a home defense gun either, that was just some general advice. 6.8 would pretty expensive to stock pile for a SHTF scenario. Not to mention that the mags are also about twice as much.
Right, and he never said that he was looking for a home defense gun either, that was just some general advice. 6.8 would pretty expensive to stock pile for a SHTF scenario. Not to mention that the mags are also about twice as much.
Re: AR choice
hey bluejazz, i had that feeling myself before the last election before sales hit the fever pitch. i snagged a lower and bought a built upper. they arent top brands, but i know people with them and they have never had any issues after many cases of ammo. mine sits in the safe, unfired. ive got $700 in it i think. its not heap so much as i bought it before it was expensive. maybe there is a company that makes a bad AR, others can chime in. but its been said here that there are only a few places making castings and a few more making them into finished lowers for most sellers. i think you can easily get a decent AR for a good price and it doesnt have to come from one of the super uber high dollar makers. there is a nice 20" HBAR for $700ish i saw in the for sale. and you can buy a new DPMS AP4 for $900-$1000 in 308 and it will eat the same as your bolt if you have a 308 still.
thanks again for the 168s by the way. let me know if you have any heavier 308s turn up, 175ish
hey bluejazz, i had that feeling myself before the last election before sales hit the fever pitch. i snagged a lower and bought a built upper. they arent top brands, but i know people with them and they have never had any issues after many cases of ammo. mine sits in the safe, unfired. ive got $700 in it i think. its not heap so much as i bought it before it was expensive. maybe there is a company that makes a bad AR, others can chime in. but its been said here that there are only a few places making castings and a few more making them into finished lowers for most sellers. i think you can easily get a decent AR for a good price and it doesnt have to come from one of the super uber high dollar makers. there is a nice 20" HBAR for $700ish i saw in the for sale. and you can buy a new DPMS AP4 for $900-$1000 in 308 and it will eat the same as your bolt if you have a 308 still.
thanks again for the 168s by the way. let me know if you have any heavier 308s turn up, 175ish
Re: AR choice
If your looking for best bang for your buck, I would go with a Rock River CAR A4. I had an one for a while and ran it hard without any trouble.
You can go 5.56 or 6.8 with the RRA; however, I recently sold my 6.8 (WOA) upper because shooting it as much as I did got expensive. The 6.8 w/ Barnes 85gr TSX walloped the hogs I shot with it, but the 5.56 is no slouch either. With that said, I would recommend a 5.56 for general defensive use, because you will likely shoot it more often.
If money is not an issue then go with the equivalent LMT, Colt, or Noveske. I'm new to the "long-range precision" game, but know a lot about AR's. if you have specific questions concerning AR's shoot me a PM and I'll point you in the right direction.
If your looking for best bang for your buck, I would go with a Rock River CAR A4. I had an one for a while and ran it hard without any trouble.
You can go 5.56 or 6.8 with the RRA; however, I recently sold my 6.8 (WOA) upper because shooting it as much as I did got expensive. The 6.8 w/ Barnes 85gr TSX walloped the hogs I shot with it, but the 5.56 is no slouch either. With that said, I would recommend a 5.56 for general defensive use, because you will likely shoot it more often.
If money is not an issue then go with the equivalent LMT, Colt, or Noveske. I'm new to the "long-range precision" game, but know a lot about AR's. if you have specific questions concerning AR's shoot me a PM and I'll point you in the right direction.
Re: AR choice
SHTF means the big one head for the hills? LMT Defender in 556. keep it as close to a M4 as possible. You will need either a Aim point or Acog for the top of it. The people coming after you are going to have the same set up, and you will never run out of ammo or spar parts.
SHTF means the big one head for the hills? LMT Defender in 556. keep it as close to a M4 as possible. You will need either a Aim point or Acog for the top of it. The people coming after you are going to have the same set up, and you will never run out of ammo or spar parts.
Re: AR choice
Boltcatch, Not to get off the subject , but I think you have it backwards. It takes 3 feet of hard packed earth to stop a 5.56 round. It will easily penetrate 6 pine two by fours, sheet rock is defiantly not an issue for it, and their is almost always an exit wound on a human, so I would say that overpenatration is an issue.
As for buckshot, we use it to breach the throw of a door when lock busters are not available because the pellets lose their energy as soon as they contact an object, and I can't say I've ever seen a buckshot pellet exit a body.
That said I would still stay with an AR for it's excellent all-around usefulness, great in the house and outside.
Boltcatch, Not to get off the subject , but I think you have it backwards. It takes 3 feet of hard packed earth to stop a 5.56 round. It will easily penetrate 6 pine two by fours, sheet rock is defiantly not an issue for it, and their is almost always an exit wound on a human, so I would say that overpenatration is an issue.
As for buckshot, we use it to breach the throw of a door when lock busters are not available because the pellets lose their energy as soon as they contact an object, and I can't say I've ever seen a buckshot pellet exit a body.
That said I would still stay with an AR for it's excellent all-around usefulness, great in the house and outside.
Re: AR choice
AXEMAN you can buy a new DPMS AP4 for $900-$1000 in 308 and it will eat the same as your bolt if you have a 308 still. [/quote said:
Re: AR choice
If you want any SHTF value it must be a 5.56mm AR platform. It is high on the list of vailability and commonality Having said that, the barrel length, stock and optics for said rifle can be easily tailored to your needs. Good luck.
If you want any SHTF value it must be a 5.56mm AR platform. It is high on the list of vailability and commonality Having said that, the barrel length, stock and optics for said rifle can be easily tailored to your needs. Good luck.
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lou Boyd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or you can get the DPMS with a stainless barrel (unlike the AP4 version) in 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, or 300 SAUM and pick up another 400 yards of supersonic range and a lot less wind deflection. </div></div>
he better stock pile barrels because those are pretty tough calibers on steel arent they? plus i know he has a bolt gun for long range work, and all of that ammo is not really readily available is it? i mean 223/556 & 308 is readily available. ive never seen 260, 6.5 or 300 saum on store shelves, but i dont really look for that either. when the shit hits the fan, 223/556 and 308 will be what you can pick up off the other guys. im not trying to start a pissing contest, im just saying they might be good calibers, but from his OP and a few others, it sounds like he wants a readily available caliber and a fairly common one for when the SHTF.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lou Boyd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or you can get the DPMS with a stainless barrel (unlike the AP4 version) in 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, or 300 SAUM and pick up another 400 yards of supersonic range and a lot less wind deflection. </div></div>
he better stock pile barrels because those are pretty tough calibers on steel arent they? plus i know he has a bolt gun for long range work, and all of that ammo is not really readily available is it? i mean 223/556 & 308 is readily available. ive never seen 260, 6.5 or 300 saum on store shelves, but i dont really look for that either. when the shit hits the fan, 223/556 and 308 will be what you can pick up off the other guys. im not trying to start a pissing contest, im just saying they might be good calibers, but from his OP and a few others, it sounds like he wants a readily available caliber and a fairly common one for when the SHTF.
Re: AR choice
The one you have trained with, know, and can shoot well with.
Most ARs are very close to each other. Some brands offer ridiculous barrels or piston systems or whatever else they add to separate themselves from the pack, but for the most part DPMS, Stag, RRA, Spikes, etc...are all the same.
Buy a lower stripped or built. Choose an upper that works for you. Get one with a 16" barrel, not 14.5." You'll thank me when you decide to change the birdcage to a QD Suppressor mount or a better FH. Get a quad rail so you can add a light mount and a light. And toss a sling on it too. Then go take some carbine courses or buy a Magpul DVD and train. And learn how to clean and maintain it.
Having the gun does you no good if you don't know how to shoot it or troubleshoot it when it doesn't cycle or feed.
5.56 is all you'll need. Until the NATO rounds change, stick with the 5.56.
The one you have trained with, know, and can shoot well with.
Most ARs are very close to each other. Some brands offer ridiculous barrels or piston systems or whatever else they add to separate themselves from the pack, but for the most part DPMS, Stag, RRA, Spikes, etc...are all the same.
Buy a lower stripped or built. Choose an upper that works for you. Get one with a 16" barrel, not 14.5." You'll thank me when you decide to change the birdcage to a QD Suppressor mount or a better FH. Get a quad rail so you can add a light mount and a light. And toss a sling on it too. Then go take some carbine courses or buy a Magpul DVD and train. And learn how to clean and maintain it.
Having the gun does you no good if you don't know how to shoot it or troubleshoot it when it doesn't cycle or feed.
5.56 is all you'll need. Until the NATO rounds change, stick with the 5.56.
Re: AR choice
Thanks for all the responses guys.
The problem with the AR market is there are to many choices for a novice to learn all the options. I will look into buying a fully assembled rig, 16" or shorter barrel, in a 308. A little more recoil, but worth it in my opinion. I don't need any more shotguns,got that covered. Don't need anymore LR rifles, got that covered and then some. Looking for a light setup AR, easy to carry and use. At this point, don't think I will set it up with a light, but definitely want a 1x4 or 2x7 scope on it.
The AR will be for 400yards or less with more mag capacity than my bolt guns. So, with this additional info, does that change anyones recomendations?
Thanks for all the responses guys.
The problem with the AR market is there are to many choices for a novice to learn all the options. I will look into buying a fully assembled rig, 16" or shorter barrel, in a 308. A little more recoil, but worth it in my opinion. I don't need any more shotguns,got that covered. Don't need anymore LR rifles, got that covered and then some. Looking for a light setup AR, easy to carry and use. At this point, don't think I will set it up with a light, but definitely want a 1x4 or 2x7 scope on it.
The AR will be for 400yards or less with more mag capacity than my bolt guns. So, with this additional info, does that change anyones recomendations?
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: splean</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want any SHTF value it must be a 5.56mm AR platform. It is high on the list of vailability and commonality Having said that, the barrel length, stock and optics for said rifle can be easily tailored to your needs. Good luck. </div></div>
Well said. I'm partial to my CavArms lower/BM 14.5 w/phantom, but doubt you could find a CA anymore....
If you're looking for 308 platform, more "dual purpose", for big game hunting and all-around, the DPMS LR308 20" A3 Classic Rifle would be a good start, maybe with 3-9X42 SS atop; PMAGs are cheap - buy lots!
Cheers,
Bill
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: splean</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want any SHTF value it must be a 5.56mm AR platform. It is high on the list of vailability and commonality Having said that, the barrel length, stock and optics for said rifle can be easily tailored to your needs. Good luck. </div></div>
Well said. I'm partial to my CavArms lower/BM 14.5 w/phantom, but doubt you could find a CA anymore....
If you're looking for 308 platform, more "dual purpose", for big game hunting and all-around, the DPMS LR308 20" A3 Classic Rifle would be a good start, maybe with 3-9X42 SS atop; PMAGs are cheap - buy lots!
Cheers,
Bill
Re: AR choice
again id still say the DPMS AP4 or similar
armalites offering.
nothing against pof but parts for a piston system may be hard to find when the SHTF. so stock up if thats your choice.
again id still say the DPMS AP4 or similar
armalites offering.
nothing against pof but parts for a piston system may be hard to find when the SHTF. so stock up if thats your choice.
Re: AR choice
Although it is relative, a lightweight .308 AR is going to be substantially heavier than 5.56 by a good margin. AR15Performance is making a "-12" .308 class AR upper and has shaved about 2 pounds off a "-10" upper. Might be worth a looksee HERE.
Don't forget Bravo Company if you look into 5.56 again.
Although it is relative, a lightweight .308 AR is going to be substantially heavier than 5.56 by a good margin. AR15Performance is making a "-12" .308 class AR upper and has shaved about 2 pounds off a "-10" upper. Might be worth a looksee HERE.
Don't forget Bravo Company if you look into 5.56 again.
Re: AR choice
Bushmaster makes some great AR's and that what I have for when SHTF. I've had it for years and put tons of different loads through it and never had a jam while custom ARs have had problems with some of the same ammo. As for accuracy its about 1 MOA for mine and all my buddies that have one. For an 16" barreled AR thats not too bad. The other companies are probably just as good or better I just don't have experience with them.
Bushmaster makes some great AR's and that what I have for when SHTF. I've had it for years and put tons of different loads through it and never had a jam while custom ARs have had problems with some of the same ammo. As for accuracy its about 1 MOA for mine and all my buddies that have one. For an 16" barreled AR thats not too bad. The other companies are probably just as good or better I just don't have experience with them.
Re: AR choice
I'm not to sure about bushmaster's 308, but I know that DPMS is a great affordable option, I know a fellow that is sponsored by them and has put thousands of rounds threw his, I believe he changes out the barrel every few thousand rounds, other than that no issues that he has told me about.
I'm not to sure about bushmaster's 308, but I know that DPMS is a great affordable option, I know a fellow that is sponsored by them and has put thousands of rounds threw his, I believe he changes out the barrel every few thousand rounds, other than that no issues that he has told me about.
Re: AR choice
556/223
Bravo Company.
Pick your upper, pick your lower, pick accessories.
308
No Experience.
556/223
Bravo Company.
Pick your upper, pick your lower, pick accessories.
308
No Experience.
Re: AR choice
What's the definition for luck - "opportunity meets preparation" or something like that.
My vote still stands for the one you know well and have worked the bugs out. You can pick up a good AR for around 7-800 bucks. Train with it, and sell it for about the same if you feel the need to get something more "high end." Just make sure you do the necessary training with the "high end" AR too.
One of my bikes is a small Suzuki SV650 street fighter. It's definitely not the fastest bike, but I ride it everyday through any weather. I ride with friends that can't hang with me on twisty roads even though they have high end Kawasaki and Yamaha super sport bikes with literally twice the power and torque. It has nothing to do with the bike and everything to do with the rider.
Moral of the story - know your tool. Know what causes the hiccups and what fixes them. When SHTF, would you rather fumble over a double feed and try to figure it out in slow clumsy steps or reflexivly clear it?
What's the definition for luck - "opportunity meets preparation" or something like that.
My vote still stands for the one you know well and have worked the bugs out. You can pick up a good AR for around 7-800 bucks. Train with it, and sell it for about the same if you feel the need to get something more "high end." Just make sure you do the necessary training with the "high end" AR too.
One of my bikes is a small Suzuki SV650 street fighter. It's definitely not the fastest bike, but I ride it everyday through any weather. I ride with friends that can't hang with me on twisty roads even though they have high end Kawasaki and Yamaha super sport bikes with literally twice the power and torque. It has nothing to do with the bike and everything to do with the rider.
Moral of the story - know your tool. Know what causes the hiccups and what fixes them. When SHTF, would you rather fumble over a double feed and try to figure it out in slow clumsy steps or reflexivly clear it?
Re: AR choice
armalite, jeez i'll tell anyone once and tell em again and ask Tuscon dave or ARPredator about my guns i had built.
JD machine tech makes the nicest 7.62 uppers and lowers period. they may not have all the fancy shit that KAC or LMT has but they don't cost that much either. machining is top notch.
they make 5.56 guns too, i have built 4 of them. aren't anything fancy but considering they make the lowers for spikes, and noveske. they are pretty good uppers and lowers.
AND they will do custom uppers and lowers too if you want, with your own graphics, etc. of course it costs a bit more but always an option.
armalite, jeez i'll tell anyone once and tell em again and ask Tuscon dave or ARPredator about my guns i had built.
JD machine tech makes the nicest 7.62 uppers and lowers period. they may not have all the fancy shit that KAC or LMT has but they don't cost that much either. machining is top notch.
they make 5.56 guns too, i have built 4 of them. aren't anything fancy but considering they make the lowers for spikes, and noveske. they are pretty good uppers and lowers.
AND they will do custom uppers and lowers too if you want, with your own graphics, etc. of course it costs a bit more but always an option.
Re: AR choice
Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html
Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html
Re: AR choice
As for the 6.8...this is VERY GOOD ADVICE:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Stick with the NATO calibers. </span></span></span></span> </div></div>
you're not gonna find 6.8 ammo at the local shop!
I prefer a .308: it does everything better than a .223!
As for the 6.8...this is VERY GOOD ADVICE:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Stick with the NATO calibers. </span></span></span></span> </div></div>
you're not gonna find 6.8 ammo at the local shop!
I prefer a .308: it does everything better than a .223!
Re: AR choice
I prefer the 5.56,lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo with it,most AR15 mags are standard.Not so much on the AR10's.
I prefer the 5.56,lighter and you can carry a lot more ammo with it,most AR15 mags are standard.Not so much on the AR10's.
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html </div></div>
Again, and even by your list. Bravo company wins(BCM). Another reason why this is the only place I buy AR15 & Parts from.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html </div></div>
Again, and even by your list. Bravo company wins(BCM). Another reason why this is the only place I buy AR15 & Parts from.
Re: AR choice
wins? no, but on par with a 4 way tie.
If that is the only place you buy AR15's and parts from your just limiting yourself.
wins? no, but on par with a 4 way tie.
If that is the only place you buy AR15's and parts from your just limiting yourself.
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wins? no, but on par with a 4 way tie.
If that is the only place you buy AR15's and parts from your just limiting yourself.
</div></div>
Go re-read your list. BCM wins do the fact they are the only one on that list with all the boxes checked plus a lifetime warranty on the iron sights.
I support Hide vendors as well. When it comes to the nuts and bolts of the Ar15 I choose BCM short of a custom build.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wins? no, but on par with a 4 way tie.
If that is the only place you buy AR15's and parts from your just limiting yourself.
</div></div>
Go re-read your list. BCM wins do the fact they are the only one on that list with all the boxes checked plus a lifetime warranty on the iron sights.
I support Hide vendors as well. When it comes to the nuts and bolts of the Ar15 I choose BCM short of a custom build.
Re: AR choice
nah. I think I read it quite well enough. And having owned a few brands on their I can speak from first hand knowledge.
There's a reason most companies don't have a lifetime warranty on their iron sights.........it's simply not needed.
You haven't thought of availability being a necessity either.
Your going to rule out the DD because it doesn't have double handguard shields?? (when most remove those and install a rail)
Or the colt because of no lifetime warranty?
Or a LMT because it's not finished under the front site post?
Before you start running your mouth you should understand which of all those checkmarks are really important.
That chart is a tool for a shooter to use and find what AR might suit him.
If you want to swing on BCM's dog balls you have at it. And it's a fine choice, just don't stay in your little box for the wrong reasons.
nah. I think I read it quite well enough. And having owned a few brands on their I can speak from first hand knowledge.
There's a reason most companies don't have a lifetime warranty on their iron sights.........it's simply not needed.
You haven't thought of availability being a necessity either.
Your going to rule out the DD because it doesn't have double handguard shields?? (when most remove those and install a rail)
Or the colt because of no lifetime warranty?
Or a LMT because it's not finished under the front site post?
Before you start running your mouth you should understand which of all those checkmarks are really important.
That chart is a tool for a shooter to use and find what AR might suit him.
If you want to swing on BCM's dog balls you have at it. And it's a fine choice, just don't stay in your little box for the wrong reasons.
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nah. I think I read it quite well enough. And having owned a few brands on their I can speak from first hand knowledge.
There's a reason most companies don't have a lifetime warranty on their iron sights.........it's simply not needed.
You haven't thought of availability being a necessity either.
Your going to rule out the DD because it doesn't have double handguard shields?? (when most remove those and install a rail)
Or the colt because of no lifetime warranty?
Or a LMT because it's not finished under the front site post?
Before you start running your mouth you should understand which of all those checkmarks are really important.
That chart is a tool for a shooter to use and find what AR might suit him.
If you want to swing on BCM's dog balls you have at it. And it's a fine choice, just don't stay in your little box for the wrong reasons.
</div></div>
I always do enjoy when asshats such as yourself post up shit like this. You first want to bitch that "we need to use this list" then come back and say well "this and this doesn't matter" "you're going to modify it with this and this". Dude grow some thicker skin or stfu. I joked with you about your list and you got offensive. This tells me you have little man syndrome. Your yet another cry baby. No need to respond or even try to be clever. You’re a tool.
I love your interenet tough guy talk.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nah. I think I read it quite well enough. And having owned a few brands on their I can speak from first hand knowledge.
There's a reason most companies don't have a lifetime warranty on their iron sights.........it's simply not needed.
You haven't thought of availability being a necessity either.
Your going to rule out the DD because it doesn't have double handguard shields?? (when most remove those and install a rail)
Or the colt because of no lifetime warranty?
Or a LMT because it's not finished under the front site post?
Before you start running your mouth you should understand which of all those checkmarks are really important.
That chart is a tool for a shooter to use and find what AR might suit him.
If you want to swing on BCM's dog balls you have at it. And it's a fine choice, just don't stay in your little box for the wrong reasons.
</div></div>
I always do enjoy when asshats such as yourself post up shit like this. You first want to bitch that "we need to use this list" then come back and say well "this and this doesn't matter" "you're going to modify it with this and this". Dude grow some thicker skin or stfu. I joked with you about your list and you got offensive. This tells me you have little man syndrome. Your yet another cry baby. No need to respond or even try to be clever. You’re a tool.
I love your interenet tough guy talk.
Re: AR choice
For a first rifle, perhaps an entry-level Bushmaster, RRA, Stag, etc. M4gery would be the best choice, then build it up from there.
Go to AR15.com and study up on the subject, though. The AR experts there will fill you in on the entire subject, and help you make the decision on the best AR for you.
For a first rifle, perhaps an entry-level Bushmaster, RRA, Stag, etc. M4gery would be the best choice, then build it up from there.
Go to AR15.com and study up on the subject, though. The AR experts there will fill you in on the entire subject, and help you make the decision on the best AR for you.
Re: AR choice
For a real SHTF scenario you are far more likely to be able to find parts, and ammo, for a 5.56 di AR than a 6.8 or .308 rifle.
As to barrel length, with other posters mentioning 12" and 14" barrels and don't forget you can't legally have a weapon with a barrel less than 16.1 inches (or a shorter barrel with a welded/pinned extension of some sort bringing it to 16.1")unless it is on a registered machine gun or SBR.
I didn't see this mentioned in this string, but as an NFA dealer thought it made sense to mention it.
For a real SHTF scenario you are far more likely to be able to find parts, and ammo, for a 5.56 di AR than a 6.8 or .308 rifle.
As to barrel length, with other posters mentioning 12" and 14" barrels and don't forget you can't legally have a weapon with a barrel less than 16.1 inches (or a shorter barrel with a welded/pinned extension of some sort bringing it to 16.1")unless it is on a registered machine gun or SBR.
I didn't see this mentioned in this string, but as an NFA dealer thought it made sense to mention it.
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html</div></div>
Again, you can see that every one here has their own personal favorite brand, and they will tell you that all others are crap. Most ARs should be made to mil specs, Colt chooses to alter the specs of some of their parts (so you can't accidentally convert your AR to full auto I guess), but for the most parts they are all the same. Some barrels are better than others but that's probably the biggest difference in function. The rest is just flair. I'm not sure why, but for some reason brands like Rock River have gotten a bad reputation on this site, personal preference again. If they were as bad as some members claim they would be out of business and pending several law suits. You can't believe everything you read here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html</div></div>
Again, you can see that every one here has their own personal favorite brand, and they will tell you that all others are crap. Most ARs should be made to mil specs, Colt chooses to alter the specs of some of their parts (so you can't accidentally convert your AR to full auto I guess), but for the most parts they are all the same. Some barrels are better than others but that's probably the biggest difference in function. The rest is just flair. I'm not sure why, but for some reason brands like Rock River have gotten a bad reputation on this site, personal preference again. If they were as bad as some members claim they would be out of business and pending several law suits. You can't believe everything you read here.
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html</div></div>
Again, you can see that every one here has their own personal favorite brand, and they will tell you that all others are crap. Most ARs should be made to mil specs, Colt chooses to alter the specs of some of their parts (so you can't accidentally convert your AR to full auto I guess), but for the most parts they are all the same. Some barrels are better than others but that's probably the biggest difference in function. The rest is just flair. I'm not sure why, but for some reason brands like Rock River have gotten a bad reputation on this site, personal preference again. If they were as bad as some members claim they would be out of business and pending several law suits. You can't believe everything you read here. </div></div>
Yes for the most part AR's are all the same. Alot of the difference is the quality control that some companies have over others.
Anyone here seen a bushmaster bolt carrier come apart because it isn't staked at the factory? I sure have and it's just one of the things that other companies do to ensure their rifles stay in working order.
Granted you can stake it at home with a 7 dollar tool. But if they cut corners here where else are they.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html</div></div>
Again, you can see that every one here has their own personal favorite brand, and they will tell you that all others are crap. Most ARs should be made to mil specs, Colt chooses to alter the specs of some of their parts (so you can't accidentally convert your AR to full auto I guess), but for the most parts they are all the same. Some barrels are better than others but that's probably the biggest difference in function. The rest is just flair. I'm not sure why, but for some reason brands like Rock River have gotten a bad reputation on this site, personal preference again. If they were as bad as some members claim they would be out of business and pending several law suits. You can't believe everything you read here. </div></div>
Yes for the most part AR's are all the same. Alot of the difference is the quality control that some companies have over others.
Anyone here seen a bushmaster bolt carrier come apart because it isn't staked at the factory? I sure have and it's just one of the things that other companies do to ensure their rifles stay in working order.
Granted you can stake it at home with a 7 dollar tool. But if they cut corners here where else are they.
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nah. I think I read it quite well enough. And having owned a few brands on their I can speak from first hand knowledge.
There's a reason most companies don't have a lifetime warranty on their iron sights.........it's simply not needed.
You haven't thought of availability being a necessity either.
Your going to rule out the DD because it doesn't have double handguard shields?? (when most remove those and install a rail)
Or the colt because of no lifetime warranty?
Or a LMT because it's not finished under the front site post?
Before you start running your mouth you should understand which of all those checkmarks are really important.
That chart is a tool for a shooter to use and find what AR might suit him.
If you want to swing on BCM's dog balls you have at it. And it's a fine choice, just don't stay in your little box for the wrong reasons.
</div></div>
I always do enjoy when asshats such as yourself post up shit like this. You first want to bitch that "we need to use this list" then come back and say well "this and this doesn't matter" "you're going to modify it with this and this". Dude grow some thicker skin or stfu. I joked with you about your list and you got offensive. This tells me you have little man syndrome. Your yet another cry baby. No need to respond or even try to be clever. You’re a tool.
I love your interenet tough guy talk.
</div></div>
I didn't realize I made any internet tough guy threats. You must have missed the signature line though. I can go ahead and make those if you'd like. At 6'1" 188 I wouldn't say I'm a "little man". hahaha
As you can see I didn't write that chart. And yes some things are more important to be looking for than others on there.
Don't be pissed if your way isn't the only way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nah. I think I read it quite well enough. And having owned a few brands on their I can speak from first hand knowledge.
There's a reason most companies don't have a lifetime warranty on their iron sights.........it's simply not needed.
You haven't thought of availability being a necessity either.
Your going to rule out the DD because it doesn't have double handguard shields?? (when most remove those and install a rail)
Or the colt because of no lifetime warranty?
Or a LMT because it's not finished under the front site post?
Before you start running your mouth you should understand which of all those checkmarks are really important.
That chart is a tool for a shooter to use and find what AR might suit him.
If you want to swing on BCM's dog balls you have at it. And it's a fine choice, just don't stay in your little box for the wrong reasons.
</div></div>
I always do enjoy when asshats such as yourself post up shit like this. You first want to bitch that "we need to use this list" then come back and say well "this and this doesn't matter" "you're going to modify it with this and this". Dude grow some thicker skin or stfu. I joked with you about your list and you got offensive. This tells me you have little man syndrome. Your yet another cry baby. No need to respond or even try to be clever. You’re a tool.
I love your interenet tough guy talk.
I didn't realize I made any internet tough guy threats. You must have missed the signature line though. I can go ahead and make those if you'd like. At 6'1" 188 I wouldn't say I'm a "little man". hahaha
As you can see I didn't write that chart. And yes some things are more important to be looking for than others on there.
Don't be pissed if your way isn't the only way.
Re: AR choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html</div></div>
Again, you can see that every one here has their own personal favorite brand, and they will tell you that all others are crap. Most ARs should be made to mil specs, Colt chooses to alter the specs of some of their parts (so you can't accidentally convert your AR to full auto I guess), but for the most parts they are all the same. Some barrels are better than others but that's probably the biggest difference in function. The rest is just flair. I'm not sure why, but for some reason brands like Rock River have gotten a bad reputation on this site, personal preference again. If they were as bad as some members claim they would be out of business and pending several law suits. You can't believe everything you read here. </div></div>
As I said, read the chart and decide for yourself. Personally I give a fuck what any of you buy.
I was a rock river arms fan too. Until I found out they don't use milspec buffer tubes so I couldn't change the stock out. And the 2 stage trigger went to shit because well.........it's crap.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I'm sorry to crap on this but there is a ton of bad advice in this thread.
LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense
The lack of anyone's advice to any of these three makers is proof this is the wrong site to ask about AR15's.
Here's my own analogy. AR15's are like hamburgers. Lots of businesses do them different ways, but they are not all created equal or with the same ingredients.
In other words the there is more than just a price difference when looking for an AR.
read the chart, decide for yourself.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p...amp;output=html</div></div>
Again, you can see that every one here has their own personal favorite brand, and they will tell you that all others are crap. Most ARs should be made to mil specs, Colt chooses to alter the specs of some of their parts (so you can't accidentally convert your AR to full auto I guess), but for the most parts they are all the same. Some barrels are better than others but that's probably the biggest difference in function. The rest is just flair. I'm not sure why, but for some reason brands like Rock River have gotten a bad reputation on this site, personal preference again. If they were as bad as some members claim they would be out of business and pending several law suits. You can't believe everything you read here. </div></div>
As I said, read the chart and decide for yourself. Personally I give a fuck what any of you buy.
I was a rock river arms fan too. Until I found out they don't use milspec buffer tubes so I couldn't change the stock out. And the 2 stage trigger went to shit because well.........it's crap.
Re: AR choice
A few things, in no particular order:
A lower is a lower is a lower. There aren't that many shops making lower receivers so all that's changing is the rollmark. There's a difference when it comes to material and billet vs. forged. For my money, forged 7075 T6 is the way to go. Strong yet cheap relative to a billet offering.
Focus on the lower parts kit (LPK) and stock components. You want good parts (Daniel Defense and Armalite spring to mind as top quality kits) that are in spec and the kits complete. You want a milspec extension (buffer tube) and I'd suggest starting with a heavy buffer (don't get an H2 or H3 right off the bat) as that will have an appreciable effect reducing felt recoil.
The upper receiver is what is stressed in an AR. Pay attention to what qualifications the barrel and bolt (and the associated carrer group) are put through. High pressure tested (HPT) bolts and barrels WITH magnetic particle inspection (MPI) should be standard. HPT is sending a 70K PSI proof load through the barrel and the MPI is the check for any subsequent problems. They are worthless if only one or the other is done.
Gas key needs to be PROPERLY staked. This means deforming the metal to prevent the screws from backing out. Alot of places half-ass this step.
Barrel steel isn't as important as the HPT/MPI requirement. I have found that the majority of shooters do NOT put enough rounds through their guns to have to rebarrel. A chrome-lined barrel should be good for 10K rounds or more. Barrel twist is more important as is the appropriate bullet selection. Thin-jacketed lightweight varmint grenades aren't exactly ideal for a 1:7 or faster and conversely, a 1:9 or slower isn't going to be so hot with a 75gr or heavier (longer) bullet. I typically suggest 1:7 as it will shoot 55gr-75gr just fine.
I'm sure there's more but I need to go pick up my wife.
My recommendation is you can't go wrong with a rifle from LMT, BCM, or Daniel Defense. These are top quality rifles that don't have the price tag of a Colt.
A few things, in no particular order:
A lower is a lower is a lower. There aren't that many shops making lower receivers so all that's changing is the rollmark. There's a difference when it comes to material and billet vs. forged. For my money, forged 7075 T6 is the way to go. Strong yet cheap relative to a billet offering.
Focus on the lower parts kit (LPK) and stock components. You want good parts (Daniel Defense and Armalite spring to mind as top quality kits) that are in spec and the kits complete. You want a milspec extension (buffer tube) and I'd suggest starting with a heavy buffer (don't get an H2 or H3 right off the bat) as that will have an appreciable effect reducing felt recoil.
The upper receiver is what is stressed in an AR. Pay attention to what qualifications the barrel and bolt (and the associated carrer group) are put through. High pressure tested (HPT) bolts and barrels WITH magnetic particle inspection (MPI) should be standard. HPT is sending a 70K PSI proof load through the barrel and the MPI is the check for any subsequent problems. They are worthless if only one or the other is done.
Gas key needs to be PROPERLY staked. This means deforming the metal to prevent the screws from backing out. Alot of places half-ass this step.
Barrel steel isn't as important as the HPT/MPI requirement. I have found that the majority of shooters do NOT put enough rounds through their guns to have to rebarrel. A chrome-lined barrel should be good for 10K rounds or more. Barrel twist is more important as is the appropriate bullet selection. Thin-jacketed lightweight varmint grenades aren't exactly ideal for a 1:7 or faster and conversely, a 1:9 or slower isn't going to be so hot with a 75gr or heavier (longer) bullet. I typically suggest 1:7 as it will shoot 55gr-75gr just fine.
I'm sure there's more but I need to go pick up my wife.
My recommendation is you can't go wrong with a rifle from LMT, BCM, or Daniel Defense. These are top quality rifles that don't have the price tag of a Colt.
Re: AR choice
One day I am going to buy a laser engraver and put my name on parts and call it my own parts when I really didn't even make them.
That is in essence what you get with a lot of these AR "manufacturers", should I say, parts installers.
One day I am going to buy a laser engraver and put my name on parts and call it my own parts when I really didn't even make them.
That is in essence what you get with a lot of these AR "manufacturers", should I say, parts installers.
