AR500 questions

[Nodakplowboy]

I've been cutting, torching and welding mild steel since childhood days but have zero experience with Ar500. A local machine shop has some odd shaped drop offs I can pick up for scrap price. If I start cutting and welding these scraps into usable target shapes, will the impact resistant qualities of the 500 be compromised, or even disappear? Tools that would be used include both wire and stick welders, oxy-propane torch, metal chop saw and grinders. Regrettably, no plasma cutter (yet).

Second question: What would be the best rod/wire to use for welding?

Any and all input would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[FCS]

More heat you put in, larger the heat affected zone will be. Torch is going to make a heat affected zone on either side of cut about 0.6" +/- 0.1" wide. Plasma cutter is smaller heat affected zone. Laser cut is smaller yet, water jet cutting offers you least/no heat affected zone.
Temper / abrasion resistance is reduced, sometimes to point of not being much different than mild steel. Long way of saying, yes, the impact resistance qualities will be compromised.
I've had similar opportunities to get some scrap AR500 material, I had a water jet cutting place make the targets. I had bolt holes put in via water jet for assembly.

Keeping the temper / abrasion resistance was beyond my skill set.

 

[Nodakplowboy]

Thank you sir, you've confirmed my suspicions. Think I'll make the purchase and plan on using the chop saw to make the cuts, wire weld into usable shapes and take my chances with any loss of quality. A few .308 and .243 hits will further the education, destruction test at 100 yds. Should be fun.

Thanks again.

 

[Sig Marine]

While hardness will be comprised by the heat, remember that speed also kills steel. I use my targets in matches where they get hammered. I've helped their life by always making sure that velocities at impact are 2600 fps or slower and by restricting calibers to .30 and under and no magnums. This is for 3/8 AR 500. Closest I shoot my steel is 225 yards.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I've been cutting, torching and welding mild steel since childhood days but have zero experience with Ar500. A local machine shop has some odd shaped drop offs I can pick up for scrap price. If I start cutting and welding these scraps into usable target shapes, will the impact resistant qualities of the 500 be compromised, or even disappear? Tools that would be used include both wire and stick welders, oxy-propane torch, metal chop saw and grinders. Regrettably, no plasma cutter (yet).

Second question: What would be the best rod/wire to use for welding?

Any and all input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Why not google welding AR plate, it needs to be heated first, what temp no clue. I know some will say it can't or you shouldn't, but armored vehicles aren't made in a shell.

 

[spaniel]

Personally, I would not shoot AR500 with a 308 or 243 at 100 yards. I can pretty much guarantee you will deeply crater it, and those craters will throw pieces back at the shooter. Yes, I've seen it done, and I've also seen people hit by fragments.

I had an AR500 gong at 200 yards. My Garand pocked it pretty good. I took it to 300 and left it there.

This is likely the best data I've seen:

https://www.ingunowners.com/forums/...ion-patterns-off-steel-targets-pic-heavy.html

 

[Nodakplowboy]

Good suggestions all, thank you. My first endeavor with mild steel plates involved a 2" @ 100, then M.O.A. size out to 600. The 2" plate took 3 hits from a .308 and was history. The rest are getting pretty hammered. With the next go round, the AR500 plates will start at 400 and run to 650, all strung on a private trail. I'll get some photos up when all is done.

Thanks again.

 

[supercorndogs]

Personally, I would not shoot AR500 with a 308 or 243 at 100 yards. I can pretty much guarantee you will deeply crater it, and those craters will throw pieces back at the shooter. Yes, I've seen it done, and I've also seen people hit by fragments.

I had an AR500 gong at 200 yards. My Garand pocked it pretty good. I took it to 300 and left it there.

This is likely the best data I've seen:

https://www.ingunowners.com/forums/...ion-patterns-off-steel-targets-pic-heavy.html

I have shot mine at 100 with a 243AI , 308, 300wm and 22-250, bullets traveling from 2700, to 3800fps and never pock marked an AR500 plate. I would say if you are marking them, they are not AR500.

 

[lash]

Personally, I would not shoot AR500 with a 308 or 243 at 100 yards. I can pretty much guarantee you will deeply crater it, and those craters will throw pieces back at the shooter. Yes, I've seen it done, and I've also seen people hit by fragments.

I had an AR500 gong at 200 yards. My Garand pocked it pretty good. I took it to 300 and left it there.

This is likely the best data I've seen:

https://www.ingunowners.com/forums/...ion-patterns-off-steel-targets-pic-heavy.html

This is not accurate. We use real AR500 steel at 100-1200 yards for all of our matches and these targets get pounded. .243 and .308 will not crater real 3/8" AR500 at those distances as long as speeds are kept at or below 3100 fps. An important aspect of shooting steel is to make sure that the steel is angled so that all splash angles into the dirt. This happens naturally with steel hung by straps or chains.

 

[mojavejim]

I would stick weld it with 7018 or if you really want to use wire go with NR232 you could try to hardface your welds if you're piecing together targets.

 

[lash]

Sure, go ahead and piece weld them together, but understand that the resulting pieces will be weaker than solid AR plates. There's no denying or avoiding it. If you are fine with that and the resulting shorter life expectation, then have at it.

Just keep in mind that purchased AR500 targets are not very expensive and you get years of use out of them. We spend thousands on rifles and optics, hundreds at a time on ammunition or reloading supplies and yet balk at $20-75 steel targets that last a very long time, possibly a lifetime depending upon your actual shooting volume. Put it into perspective.

 

[Nodakplowboy]

Mojavejim, that's a good suggestion. Run the 7018, grind smooth and hardsurface. In the long run, it would be a lot less trouble to just buy targets. But what's the fun in that?

Thanks.

 

[supercorndogs]

Mojavejim, that's a good suggestion. Run the 7018, grind smooth and hardsurface. In the long run, it would be a lot less trouble to just buy targets. But what's the fun in that?

Thanks.

Is 7018 hard faceing rod?

 

[Nodakplowboy]

7018 is a structural rod. My intent is to bevel the edges of the metal, run a 7018 rod with DC polarity, then grind the bead down and hardsurface the welded area. That's a lot of heat in one area and there will be some loss of AR500's impact resistance. Time will tell. This, for me, is all a learning process. Even if an absolute failure, something will be learned.

 

[SND]

Abrasion resistant steels are typically quenched and tempered to achieve required properties. Quenching makes the metal very hard; subsequent tempering, usually done at temps up to 1200f, restores ductility making the metal useful in engineering applications. Welding overtempers and actually makes the haz weaker than that of the mill tempered metal. For full strength welds, the procedure is to preheat to around 150, not exceed 300 f interpass temp and maintain 45- 55000 joules/in heat input. This provides a cooling rate in the weld zone that leaves the haz tough and not over tempered. 11018 sma and 100s solid wire is typically used for matching properties. For optimum abrasion resistance, a layer of hard facing is put over the carbon steel weld metal on the wear side. As long as you're welding or cutting inches away from the target area, you'll have no problem. Put a weld seam right down the center in the target area with E70 and no preheat, interpass, heat input control you'll most likely pock it pretty bad. Depends on the final tempering temp used on the actual material. 7018 is ok but 80, 90 or 11018 is better.

I'd bevel it for full penetration, preheat the base metal until its slightly hot to the touch and weld with 3/32" electrode. Here's the tricky part. Use 3/32 electrode and burn at least 3/4 of the rod minimum. Don't make any short runs. The trick is to pump in just enough, but not too much energy to create a cooling rate that leaves the haz tough and not brittle.

As an explanation for the techno-talk; I started welding on the fam farm and sawmill around 12 yrs old. Pipefitter-welder in the chemical process industry after high school. BS in Welding Engineering, Welding Engineer at a shipyard in Newport News Virginia for 5 yrs and have done 28 yrs in various engineering and construction management roles at a large chemical company. My how the time has flew by.

Also don't shoot a 6.5 creed ... yet !!!

 

[Scorpaznatica]

I apologize if this has been mentioned already in this thread; I didn't read all prior posts to the letter.

I have been working with AR500 steel for a few years now and have fabricated quite a few targets for personal use. One thing to keep in mind is that most normal tools (blades, bits, etc.) will have little to no effect on AR500. By far, the best method for cutting it is with an industrial waterjet. For all of my projects, I will even program in the bolt holes and let the waterjet handle those as well. It's a real nightmare to try to drill though, but it welds just fine once it is cut to size.

The upside to all of this is that it is wildly durable for target use. I have put thousands of rounds into my targets - everything from .22LR up through 30-06 - and nothing leaves so much as an indentation. Even steel core 5.56 rounds bounce right off. The only thing that has any measurable effect on it is the 50BMG, and even with that it can stand up to an astonishingly high round count.